• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

If you played Assassins Creed Valhalla, did you understand anything in the modern day?

  • Yes

    Votes: 18 18.2%
  • A bit

    Votes: 19 19.2%
  • Lol no

    Votes: 62 62.6%

  • Total voters
    99
Oct 25, 2017
12,558
I enjoy a good video game story. I usually enjoy continuations of those stories through sequels and might even dabble in some of the multi-media if I enjoy the games world enough. However, the thing with multi-media is that it should be used to enhance what is already in the game not something that is essential to understand what is happening in the game. This is another stealth "lets complain about Assassin's Creed Valhalla" thread since I feel there have been 4-5 in the last 2 days but Assassin's Creed wants to be a "multi-media juggernaut". It's got novels, comic books, a movie that's not great, a netflix anime series, a manga, etc. However the problem with all of this material is that it is being used to actually tell the modern day storyline which has continuously begun to feel more and more tacked on as the series goes on. I have played and got the platinum trophy for every mainline Assassin's Creed game (except Rogue) and I honestly can't even explain what is happening in the modern day plotline.

With Assassin's Creed 1-3 the modern day plotline had a neat hook with Desmond. I hazard to call Desmond a good character, but I think as a narrative device he is pretty cool. The games modern day also happened within a short time period after each other and you could have a solid grasp on what was going on just by playing the games (with the exception of Lucy getting killed in Brotherhood because Kirstin Bell's contract expired she was a triple agent who pretended to be a double agent for the assassins being explained in the DLC for revelations)

However as the games continued past 3, the modern day storyline is so barebones in the main games with zero narrative connection because everything keeps happening in the comic books.

Did you know that Desmond had a son through a one night stand and that kid is the vessel for John, the crazy video game developer from AC4 who was also the famous pirate Barthalomew Roberts and Francois Thomas Germain? Because apparently that's a thing in the comics and he was married to the magic space lady in the computer in AC4 and Syndicate?

Did you know that there was a secret cult within Abstergo who worshiped the space Lady from AC3 and they were trying to make a body for her and then she got killed by Desmond's kid because she killed his mom?

No? Because the modern day narrative of Assassin's Creed 4 Unity and Syndicate was concluded in the comic books.

So they start fresh with their new trilogy of games (Origins, Odyssey and Valhalla) with a new character Layla, and after 3 games I barely have any idea who this character even is because of how wildly the games jump because each one is taking place in the year it released (2017, 2018, 2020)

2017: Layla is an abstergo employee who is fed up with her dead end job and no advancements in her career, so she decides to break the work contract she has with Abstergo by looting the grave of an ancient egyptian couple and reliving their memories until Abstergo decides "hey lets go try and kill her with bow and arrows" since they just reuse enemies from the game but reskined as "modern day people" and Layla joins the Assassins

2018: So Layla finds a spear and has a friend now who I have no idea who they are. They are trying to open the door to Atlantis.

You might notice this giant significant jump of "wait, why are we looking for Atlantis?" so you then look into Layla's emails where she talks about all these characters I've never seen or heard of and events I've never seen because they all happen in the comic books. This new friend Layla has is a character from the comic books. Odyssey expects that you read the comic books to understand what is going on. I think the most telling thing about this is Layla has a long confrontation with this character Otso Berg and the game is treating me like "you should know who Otso Berg is" and I am going "no, I don't know who Otso Berg is, who the fuck is Otso Berg?"

Apparently he is a very important character in the comic books. So I looked up how many times Otso Berg appears in the actual video games. Otso Berg appears in

- A multiplayer cutscene for Assassin's Creed Revelations where he doesn't speak
- A few scenes in the modern day for Assassin's Creed Rogue
- One cutscene in Assassin's Creed Syndicate

The guy has more words in that scene in Odyssey than any of his previous game appearances and the game is acting like "I should know how much of a big deal Otso Berg is"

So Odyssey (the fate of atlantis DLC) ends with you crippling Otso and killing your friend who was someone from the comic books.

So how does Valhalla start?

So, that thing Desmond did at the end of Assassin's Creed 3 didn't really work. We gotta deal with that. The games just stop and start and introduce random things so if you only play the games, you literally have no idea what is going on. And my honest question as someone who actually did enjoy the modern day of AC1-3 is "if all of the modern day is happening in the comic books, why even have it in the games?"

Because it's so half-assed and disconnected that I genuinely wonder why not just let people skip over this because it is incomprehensible unless you engage with multi-media.

I use Assassin's Creed as an example, but it's not the only game series doing this.

There is this rather infamous picture regarding Halo 5.

H5G-connections.png


Of things you need to read/watch/play to understand the plot of Halo 5.

It's not enough to have just played the Halo games, you gotta read the books as well.

Then arguably the actual worst with the multi-media stuff is Square-enix.

Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy, Nier all have this multimedia shit.

People have griped a lot about Final Fantasy 15. How the backstories of the party members are relegated to the anime and the fall of insomnia is in Kingsglaive. Personally I don't think Kingsglaive is essential viewing, but the anime somewhat is. They released those anime episodes before the game came out and I watched them... so I got really confused when the game just says "hey, Prompto is a robot"

And I am sitting there going "no! You were a chubby kid with severe self-esteem issues and you fed this cute dog and you aspired to lose weight so you could get the confidence to talk to Noctis. What do you mean you are a robot?"

It was one of the weird moments where additional context made something even more confusing.

I don't really play Kingdom Hearts, but I have friends who were baffled by the inclusion of characters from the mobile game in the pivotal moment of KH3 because they thought they played every Kingdom Hearts game.

And then their is the rabbit hole of Nier stage plays, drama CDs, stemming from the fact the Nier world is the world formed from the joke ending of Drakengard which I only know because I watched a video by a youtuber named Mr.Clemps because I watched his Nier Automata video series breaking down everything (including stage plays, drama CDs, etc) because Automata was a game that fell really flat to me but resonated with other people so much, I wanted to understand what I missed.

Multi-media should be something used to enrich a games world, but now a days it feels more like a crutch because the games don't have the time/resources to implement this content into the games themselves.
 
Last edited:

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,235
You don't need to play anything but Nier Gestalt/Replicant to understand the original Nier. Honestly, a lot of the side stuff, including Ending E, are worse than the actual game. Automata has more issues but even then most of the actual game is within the game.
 

hwarang

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,451
Yeah I have to agree. I don't venture outside the game itself when it comes to reading more lore unless it's Warhammer.
 
OP
OP
TheChungusAmongUs
Oct 25, 2017
12,558
You don't need to play anything but Nier Gestalt/Replicant to understand those games. Honestly, a lot of the side stuff, including Ending E, are worse than the actual game. Automata has more issues but even then most of the actual game is within the game.

I watched an LP of Nier (original) from 2 Best Friends Play because I had friends irl who said the story of Nier is so good, but the gameplay sucks.

I might pick up the remake

I was more excited for Automata because I love platinum games, and I thought Platinums gameplay + a good narrative is a winning combo but the narrative of Automata felt really flat to me.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,053
Somehow I knew this would be about Assassin's Creed lol. Yeah the modern day stuff has been so poorly handled it's nuts.
 

Entryhazard

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,843
basically every time World of Warcraft moves to a new expansion
what do you mean Garrosh went to trial and broke out of jail with the help of the Infinite Dragonflight between Mists of Pandaria and Warlords of Draenor?
 

Mendrox

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
9,439
And then their is the rabbit hole of Nier stage plays, drama CDs, stemming from the fact the Nier world is the world formed from the joke ending of Drakengard which I only know because I watched a video by a youtuber named Mr.Clemps because I watched his Nier Automata video series breaking down everything (including stage plays, drama CDs, etc) because Automata was a game that fell really flat to me but resonated with other people so much, I wanted to understand what I missed.

No additonal things were needed for Automata. People love it for what it is like with NieR Gestalt/Replicant back then. For the first NieR it sucks a little bit that (big spoilers)

you get the true happy ending E in a book where Nier gets revived and also the Drakengard connection and everything

But it's not really needed for anyone playing this game, because it's just fanservice.

But Assassins Creed? Kingdom Hearts (which you only have to play games at least and not read novels etc.)? Halo? Yeah totally agree.
 

Squall5042

Member
Oct 25, 2017
841
I just beat Valhalla today and ended up skipping a lot of the scenes near the end cause I had no idea what was going on
 

UnluckyKate

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,527
This was way worse a decade ago I'd say when everygame and franchises had to be a billion dollar multi media phenomenom.

Good to see it quiet down recently. It was crazy, you had a pitch trailer, then basically thrown in the game without context and no explaination because you were assumed to have read prequel comics and short marketing videos before hand during the add campaign to get better understanding of the stories but in the end the story in the game sucked anyway and it just felt like first half was missing and it still lead nowhere
 
OP
OP
TheChungusAmongUs
Oct 25, 2017
12,558
I just beat Valhalla today and ended up skipping a lot of the scenes near the end cause I had no idea what was going on

I made a poll because I am genuinely curious. Valhalla is one of the best selling AC games and the OT is pretty populated and we have like 3-5 complaint threads about it.

I want to know how many people actually understood what was happening in the modern day plotline.
 

Sadire

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,343
It's a good thing Brian David Gilbert read all the Halo novels so you don't have to!


I agree 100%, but I'm also way too lazy to read most of the side material anyway. Assassin's Creed only sold (and subsequently soured me) on gameplay, so I was never too invested in the story to care.

In contrast one of my closest friends is so absorbed into the Warcraft lore that she has read many of the books and side stories.
 
OP
OP
TheChungusAmongUs
Oct 25, 2017
12,558
No additonal things were needed for Automata. People love it for what it is like with NieR Gestalt/Replicant back then. For the first NieR it sucks a little bit that (big spoilers)

you get the true happy ending E in a book where Nier gets revived and also the Drakengard connection and everything

But it's not really needed for anyone playing this game, because it's just fanservice.

But Assassins Creed? Kingdom Hearts (which you only have to play games at least and not read novels etc.)? Halo? Yeah totally agree.

I think ultimately, Automata just fell flat for me.

I got more from watching the LP for Gestalt, than playing Automata.
 

TC McQueen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,592
Literally every medium needs to cut this shit out, but Halo and Square Enix have it rough in the gaming industry. I really don't get I get why the guys at 343 went so hard for novel tie-ins as the core for their plots, when they should know that barely anyone reads the books relative to playing the games.

With Japanese games, it's just an extension of their usual "Japan cannot into international business" tendencies, since they do all this transmedia/media mix stuff in Japan and don't realize/care that if they don't translate it, their stories don't make sense.
 

Roliq

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,177
Is still hilarious how for Kingdom Hearts 3 you need to plays like five different games including the mobile one because if you only plays the first two like someone inexperienced would do you will be completely lost
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
22,270
The AC future storyline is such a gigantic mess I don't even know where to begin. AC 1-3 was already pretty out there but at least coherent. Ever since it's a pure clusterfuck. It doesn't help that the make Layla pretty unlikable. I haven't played Valhalla yet, but her killing her friend because she got obsessed with some artifact isn't exactly endearing. She has way too little screen time for any of that complexity, so she just looks like an ass.

This is Halo for me since 343 took over.
Yeah, they went waaaay over the top. I mean they brought the original freaking blue team back and the how and why isn't acknowledge in the game at all, what the fuck? Let alone that people who haven't at least read Fall of Reach wont even know any of these characters. You need to make players care about these characters within the game, not assume that some other media has already done that job.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
I love expanded universe material but I do think it's usually a losing proposition.

You either work it into the game and confuse everybody who didn't pick it up, or you ignore it and acknowledge it as pointless.
 

Dolce

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,235
That's because Gestalt is the better game ;-)

Yeah, honestly, my biggest issue with Automata is that it feels like Yoko Taro making a game built on his reputation rather than the game he wanted. It also felt like it re-treaded a lot of the same ideas as Gestalt/Replicant and a lot of predictable things happen because of that. It felt like story elements would happen because "this is what Yoko Taro would do!" and even things like the genre experimentation felt more tacked on and less organic than Gestalt.

Especially when you compare it to Drakengard 3. Which is so different from Nier but also quite different from DG1.
 

Adrifi

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jan 5, 2019
3,466
the Spanish Basque Country
Imagine trying to understand Halo 5 without speaking Spanish and watching Katarn343's videos. Must be brutal. I cannot imagine OP's suffering, seriously.

And for Infinite it's already looking like you'll need other media to understand the story too lol
 

KORNdog

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
8,001
Reminds me of destiny and those cards which unlocked reading materials on their website 😂

I would have been bothered by that but the game was about an evil entinlty called "the darkness" where you controller "guardians" that used "light" power and I quickly stopped caring. Lol
 

Mendrox

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
9,439
Yeah, honestly, my biggest issue with Automata is that it feels like Yoko Taro making a game built on his reputation rather than the game he wanted. It also felt like it re-treaded a lot of the same ideas as Gestalt/Replicant and a lot of predictable things happen because of that. It felt like story elements would happen because "this is what Yoko Taro would do!" and even things like the genre experimentation felt more tacked on and less organic than Gestalt.

Automata is just a little worse Gestalt/Replicant. Both of them have amazing soundtracks, both of them have shitty gameplay, but Gestalts/Replicants story is a league above Automata easily and Automata, as you said, almost did the same things again.

People only recognized Automata because it really has some sexy designs, the Platinum Seal and it wasn't such a big shitshow on consoles unlike Gestalt/Replicant with its performance.
 

FallenGrace

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,035
Deus Ex does it.

I thought Mankind Divided started off jarring with where Jenson is, the group he joined etc. Then I read a novel that bridges the gap between both games that I feel is really pretty important....
 

Kaydigi

Member
Apr 25, 2019
912
You need to watch Animatrix's cgi short , play Enter the Matrix on PS2, just to understand the importance Niobi and Ghost mission at the start of Matrix Reloaded.

I always hated that that piece of importance was tied to a low res PS2 title.
 
Oct 29, 2017
6,249
FFXV was especially insulting about this.

The idea that an RPG that stretches for dozens of hours needs a movie, an anime, a mobile game and several DLC episodes to tell the whole story is a blatant cash grab, nothing more. It's just as cynical as the Cup Noodles ads.
 

MrConbon210

Member
Oct 31, 2017
7,647
I wouldn't say Kingdom Hearts necessarily fits. Yes there's a shit ton of games and the mobile game is important but there's nothing outside of the media of "games" that is filling in gaps. I guess back cover counts but that is included when you buy one of the games.
 

Gunny T Highway

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,997
Canada
I agree to an extent. Out of game content that is almost required reading to get the full enjoyment/understanding of a game irritates me. If you are going to do that make it available as logs within the game.
 

defaltoption

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
11,483
Austin
I freaking hate this as well and never noticed it until around Assassins Creed 3 and 4, out of nowhere there was this large relationship between Desmond and his father and then a bunch of apparently other assassins leading missions around the world and I didn't know what the hell they were talking about because it was only spoken about in the comics and novels.

Everyone talks about how they hated the modern day stuff and it never made sense but that's because it was all done terribly in the games and put into the books.

How many people know how Edward Kenway from AC4 died? If you didn't read the books you'd never know, how about Ezio? If you didn't see the animated short video youd not know.
 

Patsy

Member
Jun 7, 2019
1,279
Germany
Played Crysis for the first time last week & can't fucking believe they put such important story shit (explaining what happned after the cliffhanger, connecting it to 2 & killing Nomad) in a god damn comic, instantly reminded me of them killing off Juno in the AC comics among other things.

Automata is just a little worse Gestalt/Replicant. Both of them have amazing soundtracks, both of them have shitty gameplay, but Gestalts/Replicants story is a league above Automata easily and Automata, as you said, almost did the same things again.

People only recognized Automata because it really has some sexy designs, the Platinum Seal and it wasn't such a big shitshow on consoles unlike Gestalt/Replicant with its performance.

As I like to say, Replistalt walked so Automata could run. People calling the Replicant remake the fucking "Automata prequel" kills me every fucking time when it's already almost 11 years old. :(
 

Kucan

Member
Nov 4, 2017
80
At least Kingdom Hearts went through the effort to collate all the stuff into collections so that purchasing everything is simple to buy now, compared to the past.
 

Eblo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,643
I wouldn't say Kingdom Hearts necessarily fits. Yes there's a shit ton of games and the mobile game is important but there's nothing outside of the media of "games" that is filling in gaps. I guess back cover counts but that is included when you buy one of the games.
A concert program contained critical story details for Kingdom Hearts III.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,162
I remember how annoyed I was reading the manga Black Clover and they bring in all these new people all of a sudden, with no introduction, from some light novel. Yeah it's annoying.

And for Kingdom Hearts, I always just assumed the story makes absolutely no sense regardless of how much you read or play. So there's actually some narrative structure you can follow if you devote your entire life to it?
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
18,410
Halo has always been like this. The games doesn't even attempt to bridge the time gap between entries in-game.

Halo 4 introduces a whole new race and vocabulary and antagonist and there's not an inkling of why I should know who these people are.
 

Capricorn

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
701
I generally agree, but I love the way Destiny 2 does it. Most of the lore is great, and it's always a treat when there's a new lore drop on the Bungie.net website, or when a new collector's edition or Grimoire Book is released.

Of course, I'd rather have all that story displayed in cutscenes and/or actual gameplay, but that would never happen, so that's the next best option.
 

Rodney McKay

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,186
That's what killed my interest in Halo, and I HAD read some of the books (mainly the pre-Halo 2 ones).

Had no idea the Assassin's Creed story got so messy with cross-media shit. I fell off of the series because they were coming out too fast for me to play huge open world games every year, so AC4 is the most recent in the series I've played.

4 felt like it could potentially get the modern day story moving in an interesting direction with the cyber lady and her reincarnated lover (or something like that), but if they concluded that in a comic... Jeez. :/
 

Manu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,112
Buenos Aires, Argentina
NieR fans praise Replicant/Gestalt without shitting on Automata challenge 2021

I knew the thread would be about AC lol, I used to follow the extended universe but I stopped when they killed Daniel Cross like a chump after setting him up as a sort of anti-Desmond for an entire comic series.
 

Pancracio17

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,695
I think it has to do with how videogame sequels are conceptualized. The point of AC isnt the story anymore, its the settings. So if one game ends setting up something that got scrapped because they wanted another city to jump around in, it gets resolved in a comic. See also Halo and how the games change direction every sequel. It ends up making supplementary material essential.
 

Couscous

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,089
Twente (The Netherlands)
I'm playing the Halo series at the moment and the series is a perfect example of what OP describes. What the hell happened between Halo 2 and 3? MC is all of the sudden falling down on earth even though he entered the High Charity ship at the end of 2. I just started Halo 4 and I'm just as confused as MC is lol. Why are Elites attacking MC all of the sudden? There was a truce at the end of Halo 3. I know a lot can happen in four years, but there's no explenation whatsoever.
 

taytwo

Member
Dec 3, 2018
96
I haven't played an ac since the first one and I generally understood what was happening modern day. It didn't seem very hard to follow imo and seems like a pretty interesting approach based on what happen. I'm genuinely curious on how it'll play out in dlc and future installments.

It was more that the game was extremely repetitive but I enjoyed it enough to get the platinum.
 

FancyPants

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
707
Lol automatically thought about Halo the moment I read the title. Fired up Halo 4 and was like "should I know who tf these guys are?" and was super annoyed the game was following the books that I can't be assed to read. The whole Halo franchise storyline is so dumb to me.