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i am sick and fucking tired of silent protagonists in Nintendo titles

Deleted member 2669

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,044
Robin and Corrin showed me that the alternative would have been so much worse for Byleth. I had a harder time tolerating the whole Mary Sue/Gary Stu thing in Awakening and Fates. Speaking at least a little would have been more effective for a character who simply "doesn't talk much" though.
 
HK-47

HK-47

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,594
Moirayn said:
I understand why people don't like silent protagonists, and there are many compelling arguments as to why they're inferior to a really well written protagonist. I find that more often than not they exist in games where the protagonist is mostly a vehicle for the story, often being the "chosen one" & a self-insert. It's understandable why people would be tired of this classic trope/story, and that those of us that still do may be in the minority... but I find it a little confusing that people don't understand that some others enjoy Roleplaying in their Roleplaying Games.
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A vast majority of Japanese silent protagonists are not good vehicles for role playing though. You don't get the dialogue options and story choices that say western rpgs ascribe to.
 
AtomicShroom

AtomicShroom

Tools & Automation
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
3,078
Of all the things that ever bothered me with Zelda games, this has never been one of them...
 

Frakst

Member
Nov 2, 2017
38
I don't like voiced MCs in JRPGs. They just feel weird. Voiced MCs would probably be best with western titles though. Although, I don't really play a lot of western games in general.
 
Madao

Madao

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,696
Panama
i think i'd prefer the silent ones for Nintendo's games. just look at how people react when there's a fully voiced MC in a Nintendo game like in Xenoblade 1 and 2.
 
PKrockin

PKrockin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,260
Gets pretty awkward when there's dramatic shit going on and my character just motionlessly stares blankly. Especially when it seems like the protagonist is supposed to have a pretty good relationship with their sibling? The fact that the MC is a completely stoic silent statue around them makes it look like the MC doesn't give a shit about them.

This is also not really a game about roleplaying or immersion. Not sure what's the point when you barely have any dialogue options and seemingly a totally linear story progression.

Madao said:
i think i'd prefer the silent ones for Nintendo's games. just look at how people react when there's a fully voiced MC in a Nintendo game like in Xenoblade 1 and 2.
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Never played 2 but did people have a problem with Shulk? I thought he was fine. I don't remember people hating his voice acting.
 
nib95

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Yea, in BotW I vastly preferred every time a cutscene featured talking NPC's, and disliked that Link was both still silent, and also pretty one note with his expressions. In fact it often seemed like the only expressions he had were straight faced or surprised/shook, which made him seem even more fake and detached.

Hopefully the silent protagonist thing they can improve across the board in future.
 
Acquiescence

Acquiescence

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
10,257
Lake Titicaca
nib95 said:
Yea, in BotW I vastly preferred every time a cutscene featured talking NPC's, and disliked that Link was both still silent, and also pretty one note with his expressions. In fact it often seemed like the only expressions he had were straight faced or surprised/shook, which made him seem even more fake and detached.

Hopefully the silent protagonist thing they can improve across the board in future.
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They sure can. By eliminating the silent protagonist completely.

Man, Twilight Princess's ending would've been so much more effective if Link had a personality.
 
Ishaan

Ishaan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,702
Person that created the thread sounds very angry. Take a chill pill, dude/dudette.

Silent protagonists exist because they're a convenient way for people to decide those characters' personalities for themselves. This isn't new or rocket science.
 

i like big butts

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,970
Ishaan said:
Person that created the thread sounds very angry. Take a chill pill, dude/dudette.

Silent protagonists exist because they're a convenient way for people to decide those characters' personalities for themselves. This isn't new or rocket science.
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For some characters like Link, you can sort of get away with it because his personality is pretty irrelevant to the plot. That being said Link does react emotionally to things like a mime so he isn't entirely a blank.

It becomes a huge problem in Three Houses because you're led to believe your character is the panacea to everything but you really exhibit less character than a doorknob. You're basically silent during cutscenes that have huge amounts of speech and whatever you get to choose to say is pretty meaningless.

It doesn't work at all for Three Houses because of just how character driven it is and how much of a blank the avatar character is.
 
Ishaan

Ishaan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,702
i like big butts said:
For some characters like Link, you can sort of get away with it because his personality is pretty irrelevant to the plot.

It becomes a huge problem in Three Houses because you're led to believe your character is the panacea to everything but you really exhibit less character than a doorknob because you're not only silent, basically say nothing while other character say paragraph after paragraph and whatever you get to choose to say is pretty meaningless.

It doesn't work at all for Three Houses because of just how character driven it is.
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Oh, that's fine. But that isn't what OP said. OP said they were "REALLY FUCKING TIRED" and then questioned why silent protagonists exist period, as though this discussion hasn't taken place a billion times since the dawn of man. The thread then devolved into everyone else that also doesn't like silent protagonists being outraged by how "cheap" Nintendo is and won't do fully voice-acted protagonists across all their games, as though it weren't a design choice.

The issue is one of the quality of posting, not the opinion itself. When you create a thread, your opening post sets the tone for the discussion.
 
cw_sasuke

cw_sasuke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,400
While is respect your stance, in general if something pisses you off like this....why not skip these games ? Its not like there is a lack of quality games to play on any system.

At least i couldnt bother with something thats troubles me so much in a hobby that should be fun and relaxing.
 
upinsmoke

upinsmoke

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,566
I think it works well in some games honestly. I dont mind it and actually like it, hearing Link now would just be weird as fuck
 

shauntu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
324
zelig said:
I'm on my 3rd route. The game has many issues due to cheapening out:

- lack of map variety
- lack of cutscenes
- lack of animations
- less than stellar graphics
- and of course lack of voice acting for Byleth

It makes no sense for a successful franchise like FE, but 3H feels like a cheap game overall, only slightly above your run of the mill-Vita game. I'm still enjoying it DESPITE that cheapness. But let's not pretend 3H is a big budget production.
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Ok.

Just seemed to me that it could also be a deliberate choice to not have the 'player character' speak. Which has been a Nintendo staple forever, no matter how much other characters start getting voiced. FE 3H specifically, probably has more voice acting than any Nintendo game before. So, the Byleth character being silent, at least, doesn't seem to me to be directly a consequence of budget cutting.

Like the other game being discussed, Astral Chain. It has full voice acting for both characters, but the one you are controlling stays silent during the run of the game with that character. Play as the other character, and that one becomes silent while the other one talks. Budget cheapening, or deliberate design choice (whether you agree it is a good choice or bad choice)?
 
Hawkster

Hawkster

Alt account
Banned
Mar 23, 2019
2,626
JoeInky said:
It stops them from needlessly over inflating budgets.

And considering most of the time they don't use the best voice actors or have the best writing, is it really that much of a loss?
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So because "bad writing" and "bad voice acting", we shouldn't bother with voiced protagonists at all?
 

Normal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,296
After playing through Three Houses I have to agree that silent protags are awful. Byleth being boring blank slate with no voice acting was terrible choice, and he had dumb blank face even in cutscenes when "emotional" events were happening. Shit, I'd take dumbass Corrin over Byleth at this rate, at least Corrin has a personality.

I wouldn't have cared as much if Byleth wasn't the central focus of the game like Mark from FE7 or something.
 
zelig

zelig

Banned
Aug 29, 2019
221
shauntu said:
Ok.

Just seemed to me that it could also be a deliberate choice to not have the 'player character' speak. Which has been a Nintendo staple forever, no matter how much other characters start getting voiced. FE 3H specifically, probably has more voice acting than any Nintendo game before. So, the Byleth character being silent, at least, doesn't seem to me to be directly a consequence of budget cutting.

Like the other game being discussed, Astral Chain. It has full voice acting for both characters, but the one you are controlling stays silent during the run of the game with that character. Play as the other character, and that one becomes silent while the other one talks. Budget cheapening, or deliberate design choice (whether you agree it is a good choice or bad choice)?
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As a big time Nintendo-fan let me say: Cheapening out on a modern presentation has also been a Nintendo-staple.
 
Vinx

Vinx

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Sep 9, 2019
1,417
As games become more and more cinematic the classic "silent protagonist" will fade away.

Playing FF14 Shadowbringers currently and the main character, the Warrior of Light, is an emotional blackhole. It doesnt matter what tone or emotions are being conveyed in the scene by the other characters because whenever they turn to your character your response is just 1 of 7 emotes.

People say "you're supposed to place yourself in the role, its more immersive" and that would be true in open ended games like Skyrim but not a game that is telling a specific story with a specific character at its center.

Makes me wonder how the reception for certain recent high profile games would change if they had a silent protagonist. Would people think so highly of Red Dead Redemption 2 if Arthur Morgan never said a word? Or what if Kratos was mute?
 

Deleted member 4090

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
Vinx said:
As games become more and more cinematic the classic "silent protagonist" will fade away.

Playing FF14 Shadowbringers currently and the main character, the Warrior of Light, is an emotional blackhole. It doesnt matter what tone or emotions are being conveyed in the scene by the other characters because whenever they turn to your character your response is just 1 of 7 emotes.

People say "you're supposed to place yourself in the role, its more immersive" and that would be true in open ended games like Skyrim but not a game that is telling a specific story with a specific character at its center.

Makes me wonder how the reception for certain recent high profile games would change if they had a silent protagonist. Would people think so highly of Red Dead Redemption 2 if Arthur Morgan never said a word? Or what if Kratos was mute?
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I'm in the "fuck purely silent protagonists in story focused RPGs" boat, but this post is just a parade of awful, awful takes that it kind of pushes me to the other side. "What if a character-focused journey were in fact not a character-focused journey?" No shit? "As games become more cinematic"? Trying to bring up MMOs?

I don't even know how it makes sense for an MMO to make you play a character. Like, would everybody be playing the same character? Just a giant army of clones, or something? It is an extension of traditional tabletop RPGs. You are your character. Go play on an RP server if that is what you want.

There's going to continue to be a wide variety of types of RPGs in the genre, and there's room for all kinds. Most of the time people try to draw a trend here it ends up kind of dumb (like the "as RPGs become more action oriented", or whatever, decades late to the part).
 
Mr. Nice_Guy

Mr. Nice_Guy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,716
I just imagined a Xenoblade where Shulk was silent. That game would go from a 10 to like, god...a 7 for me? Basically every scene from that game that hooked me was scene he was in and it was his acting. It's terrible in Three Houses but the further I get into that game, the more it's apparent that the silent protagonist isn't the main thing holding it's story back from achieving something special.

Never bothered me in Zelda though, even Breath of the Wild.
 

greenhadoken

Member
Oct 28, 2017
502
That's so weird I was just thinking the exact opposite. Started BL3 yesterday and was bummed to find out that which ever character you choose has a voice this time around. I find that more often than not I dislike the personality of a talking protagonist. Many won't agree with me but I always think of Rockstar titles as games where I wish my character didn't talk.
 
Sacul64

Sacul64

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,769
Mezati99 said:
BoTW
FE Three Houses
Astral chain

wtf is the point? who actually likes this? why?!!!!!

how is it normal for someone to hold a full conversation with you while you just stare at them with no response? it completely and utterly break immersion

will it cost a fortune to hire some VA?
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protagonist talks in chapter 12 technically he/she is not silent
 
ozfunghi

ozfunghi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,175
If and when they decide to add voice acting for protagonists, i hope they include the option to mute it. Because way worse than a silent protagonist, is an irritating one.
 
LittleAlchemist

LittleAlchemist

Member
Sep 14, 2019
623
I definitely hope Astral Chain 2 has a voiced main character. Same with the next Fire Emblem. Link never much bothered me.
 
ozfunghi

ozfunghi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,175
Sandstar said:
What game would you play where you could stand poorly voice acted npcs, but not a poorly acted MC?
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First of all, i don't need to "connect" with NPCs like with a MC.
Secondly, NPCs come and go. Only a few of them will be there throughout the game, yet get nowhere near as much dialogue as a MC.
 

Sandstar

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,741
ozfunghi said:
First of all, i don't need to "connect" with NPCs like with a MC.
Secondly, NPCs come and go. Only a few of them will be there throughout the game, yet get nowhere near as much dialogue as a MC.
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Aren't voiced main characters way more prevalent in rpgs, where you're likely to spend a lot of time around the same people in a party?
 

Deleted member 18360

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
2,844
Most of the time the player character isn't super interesting as a character because they're going for a relatively blank or 'everyman' archetype. Supporting characters and/or deuteragonists usually seem more interesting, and I wonder if that's because their role in the story is naturally more constrained or easy to define.

And honestly I'd rather have less overt or silent protagonists just due to the disconnect that happens when a character that is supposed to represent your agency in gameplay suddenly adopts a (perhaps annoying or cliche) personality and starts sucking up all of the air in lengthy cutscenes. Also if we're singling our Nintendo, their voice work seems to be, often, pretty weak.
 
Bunzy

Bunzy

Banned
Nov 1, 2018
2,205
Totally with you on this OP, I'm personally ready to spearhead the situation. I'll go to Japan and demand Nintendo change things. I'll be the hero that Nintendo fans deserve.......
\/​

press A
 

Deleted member 4090

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
Chuck said:
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I really don't consider Persona MC, Byleth, Vault Dweller, or the Dragonborn to be in the same category as Link, Mario, or DQ protagonists. Having hundreds or thousands of lines of dialogue doesn't count because you get a choice?

Silent Protagonist != Self-Insert

They're totally different types of characters with their own sets of reasons and problems, and voice acting isn't the thing that differentiates the good from the bad. The original version of DQXI suffered for the same reason as the newer versions, despite the lack of voice acting.

GoldStarz said:
Byleth also has an established personality though? Their initial "blank slate" is literally an important plot point and a character quirk that gets commented on repeatedly.
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Also, giant plot spoiler:

Byleth is possessed by an unworldly parasite implanted into him at birth, Rosemary's Baby style. So there's something resembling an in-canon reason for how/why the outside person gets to choose their dialogue/characterization.

Also, Byleth being a self-insert character is the device that enables the timeskip.

When injured, his "race" or whatever undergoes a regeneration dormancy, which is what happened with the original Sothis, Flayn, and Flayn's uncle. While Byleth is sleeping, the player has no portal into the game world.
 
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Nightwing Fan Shan

Nightwing Fan Shan

Member
Jan 9, 2018
959
TheInfinityGauntlet said:
I get it if the game has a character creator because the voice/s won't always perfectly align with new protagonist visions but for hard characters such as Link and Byleth I really don't see an excuse
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Yeah this is where I stand on this, too. It's ridiculous to expect me to care about some colourful cardboard when I had nothing to do with it before the game started. And as cardboard, there's no reason for me to relate to or connect to it during the course of the game anyways. If that colourful cardboard was at least my colourful cardboard, it'd make sense.

Byleth was honestly terrible, and I say this as someone that will probably put Three Houses down as their GOTY at the end of the year. I didn't have too much of an issue with Link, since he had a lot of personality and his quietness played into his character, but it still bothers me that we have silent protagonists taking up space that could be used to do interesting things by representing mute people instead.
 
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