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I actually don't hate Epic Game Store
- Thread starter Bufbaf
- Start date
User Warned - Platform Warring
To me isnt about features. To me is about Tim being a liar and a hypocrite, that also has a messiah complex and Epic having awfull business practices that goes agaisnt everything i want for the PC as a platform
Then again i dont care too much about it, because since they barely dick wave about sales and they change their strategy time to time shows that nothing is working for them and the store is pretty far away from being a succes.
A real shame, they are gonna have it rough from now on. Destiny 2, Halo, Gears and so on being released on Steam, MS launching Xbos App + Game pass (an app with actual features, still barebones tho), EGS didnt secure at E3 and beyond something that actually matters in the market, Nintendo destroying this end of year and 2020 having new consoles on the market.
So yeah, EGS defense force im seeing you in PC ERA threads (oh wait...!)
Then again i dont care too much about it, because since they barely dick wave about sales and they change their strategy time to time shows that nothing is working for them and the store is pretty far away from being a succes.
A real shame, they are gonna have it rough from now on. Destiny 2, Halo, Gears and so on being released on Steam, MS launching Xbos App + Game pass (an app with actual features, still barebones tho), EGS didnt secure at E3 and beyond something that actually matters in the market, Nintendo destroying this end of year and 2020 having new consoles on the market.
So yeah, EGS defense force im seeing you in PC ERA threads (oh wait...!)
Thanks OP. After seeing your post, I logged onto EGS for the first time in a while and my eyes bulged out when I saw Moonlighter is free. I've yet spend a dime there but my collection is starting to look pretty sweet. No, it's not a bad store at all. Yes, I know my little post isn't going to change anyone's mind. I still love you.
I like that Steam is seeing competition. A monopoly like that is not healthy. How much Valve takes their user base for granted can be seen in how absolutely dreadful their game output has been these last few years. Hopefully EGS makes Valve feel more pressured so that they would also consider lowering their cut, and they actually start releasing those highly anticipated games everyone has been asking for
Initially I was really worried about EGS but seeing Valve barely reacting at all assuaged my fears since we won't have a situation of two giant corporations getting into an exclusivity "arms race" and shit hitting the fan in the PC landscape.
Timmy's constant shit-talking and taunting, the flip-flops between decisions and backtracks, the power plays like covering Shenmue 3 refunds, fucking up the mega sale by pissing off their partners with miscommunication... all of that leaves the impression this project is lead by complete idiots who don't have the slightest clue on how to run a modern PC online shop. Their shitty store is propped up by their Fortnite warchest.
I predict Epic will just keep bleeding money on EGS with their current strategy.
how is egs not competition? are they not competing with valve?
valve's market share is large enough where they're a de facto monopoly. especially when you consider the fact that most games sold also on other platforms are integrated with steam in some ways
No, they arent. They probably are competing agaisnt Xbox app + Game Pass (and im being generous)
Market leader isnt a de facto monopoly or a monopoly.
Some of the biggest games on PC have nothing to do with Steam.
Dont have any reason to hate it either.
All these free games they give out are great and i just wanna play video games.
I get why people are clamoring for some features but personally as long the video game is working i couldnt care less.
A store is there to sell stuff and thats what it is doing for me.
All these free games they give out are great and i just wanna play video games.
I get why people are clamoring for some features but personally as long the video game is working i couldnt care less.
A store is there to sell stuff and thats what it is doing for me.
That's great, but some of those features literally give Linux gamers a chance to play those games.
How isn't it competition against steam if they're literally paying to take games off steam and put them in their store
See post like this I don't get, every store gives out free games on PC, though that is up to the publisher I've gotten many paid games for free on steam. And what makes epic launcher a breath of fresh air compared to other launcher/stores?
Only game that matters is BL3, Ubisoft games doesnt matter because we can simple buy them at Uplay store (which is leagues better than EGS)
They also moneyhatted plenty of other games too? Again, I don't get how it isn't competition if their cut and their whole thing was "we're doing this better than Valve"
Shenmue 3? Hades? Mechwarrior 5? Kickstarter projects? Most of them are AA and indies that have barely any impact in the market. Epic and Tim can say all the shit they want, reality is pretty different.
I actually genuinely like that I can check a game's store page and see info about that game and not every other game on the planet. I also appreciate that the front page is mostly "interesting" games rather than whatever bullshit is popular because pewdiepie played it yesterday. And as much as I like the idea of people getting their fuck on with video games, I don't need to see every big titty anime girl to ever exist on my store just because I haven't engaged in the discovery queue enough
Admittedly, a lot of that is just because they have such a small store. It is easy to curate when you have <100 games and I don't know how you can really maintain that. But I also know that I actually browsed the "front page" during the epic sale a few months back. Every Steam sale is me checking my wishlist and maybe seeing what someone on a message board mentions as being cool. Even the discovery queue is mostly trash
Maybe the "machine learning" enhanced stuff they put in beta recently will help. I am curious, but not optimistic
Oh you do? Do explain to me. Actually it doesnt matter anyways, EGS is far from being a threat to any store (Ubisoft fucked them up with Uplay store pretty nicely lmao)
Ok there's a problem here
1. The part about game store pages I don't know what you mean by that, I have steam opened up now. I click on a game and it's info about a game. And some similar games based on that game.
2. The front page is based on what your friends play, some popular stuff( not because of pewdipie but because of all the info they have on players), and recommendations based on the games/genres you play.
3. Steam has amazing censorship settings if you use them you won't see those games anymore.
The EGS doesn't need to get every huge game to be competition. They could straight up not moneyhat anything and they would still be competition because they're both on the same market offering the same service. GOG and the WinStore are competition for Steam as well.
- Just checked the Mechanicus page (awesome game, by the way) and I get "more like this" and similar crap before I get to the user reviews (another thing I actually like not having).
- And what do you think those players are playing? Its a feedback loop. Streamer with a following plays a game. Their followers play it. It gets advertised more. More streamers play it. I suspect EGS will be even worse once their streamer-share stuff goes live, but it isn't yet
- And I block outright "adult" "designed to be played with one hand" fucking games (thanks to Will Smith for explaining how to do that). But I actually like mature games with sexuality and even nudity if it contributes to the "art" of it. And while I fully acknowledge it is hard to distinguish between porn and art, it is pretty frustrating that my options are "no quirky indie games about dating and vulnerability" or "all the anime titties, all the time".
I'm sure that if I gave Valve even more data and spent hours in the discovery queues I could clean things up and fine tune it to have what I want. As it stands I pretty much gave up on the store page around the time every fricking game in the discovery queue was a BR because I like CS:GO (this was before CSGO became a BR...). I've found a few interesting curators (some thanks to this very forum) but I still have zero interest whatsoever in browsing the trash. I mostly treat Steam like a mobile store in that I will search for something I get recommended and ignore the rest.
In a perfect world we would have everything coexist, and that is what I want. As it stands, I think "a breath of fresh air" really does apply to how it felt to actually browse the store during a sale rather than actively ignoring it.
Of course they dont need every huge game out there, that didnt work so far. They had to change their strategy a couple of times but didnt work either.
Also, they dont offer the same service. Will be real competition the day EGS gets some notable market share (lets dream a bit, about 10%)
GOG is pretty different to Steam, they offer DRM free games and old games.
Maybe your client is messed up man I just went to the Mechanicus page I clicked overwhelming reviews and it went straight to the reviews.
See this is why I'm confused, thats how most steam users view the store, the other stuff is optional. I'm just trying to grasp your views, I think the problem for most steam users isn't curation. We already have too many games.
Also you've have you spent money on steam or not because you said you've never spent a dime on steam.
Main problem with EGS is that its not a reliable platform to use based on the business decisions. Epic games have most popular and very capable game engine, like their game engine they should have focused features first and foremost with EGS. They have money and man power to open a feature complete store. There is no excuse for this end result.
But instead Tim Sweney focuses on smokes and mirrors, like telling there won't be sales in EGS then bringing sales, contradicting his previous statements multiple times. False narratives about competition, using steam player data without permission. Creating toxicity by bringing moneyhatted exclusives to PC space, pulling games from steam weeks before release, offering exclusivity to kickstarter projects previously announced for steam which destroys the goodwill towards to kickstarter projects.
From these behaviors we can safely assume he or his team, whoever making these decisions don't have a coherent vision about what EGS suppose to be. Sweney says he wants EGS to bring competition but his actions shows that he wants it to be monopoly. One day he can wake up wrong side of the bed and tell they will cancel regional pricing because of reasons or they won't be making sales anymore etc. There is no guarantee about something absurd like this won't happen in the future.
If you try to be wary about these underlying problems, suddenly you get more picky about what PC launcher to use. A lot of people don't want to spend money to a untrustworthy business like this. If they did choose to have trustworthy approach from the beginning, I'm sure they would accepted by many more players today.
But instead Tim Sweney focuses on smokes and mirrors, like telling there won't be sales in EGS then bringing sales, contradicting his previous statements multiple times. False narratives about competition, using steam player data without permission. Creating toxicity by bringing moneyhatted exclusives to PC space, pulling games from steam weeks before release, offering exclusivity to kickstarter projects previously announced for steam which destroys the goodwill towards to kickstarter projects.
From these behaviors we can safely assume he or his team, whoever making these decisions don't have a coherent vision about what EGS suppose to be. Sweney says he wants EGS to bring competition but his actions shows that he wants it to be monopoly. One day he can wake up wrong side of the bed and tell they will cancel regional pricing because of reasons or they won't be making sales anymore etc. There is no guarantee about something absurd like this won't happen in the future.
If you try to be wary about these underlying problems, suddenly you get more picky about what PC launcher to use. A lot of people don't want to spend money to a untrustworthy business like this. If they did choose to have trustworthy approach from the beginning, I'm sure they would accepted by many more players today.
And if you scroll up even a centimeter or two above where you cut it off you get the adsMaybe your client is messed up man I just went to the Mechanicus page I clicked overwhelming reviews and it went straight to the reviews.
See this is why I'm confused, thats how most steam users view the store, the other stuff is optional. I'm just trying to grasp your views, I think the problem for most steam users isn't curation. We already have too many games.
Also you've have you spent money on steam or not because you said you've never spent a dime on steam.
Its great that you enjoy not having a store you can browse. I am mostly tolerant of it. But I want better. And it is "a breath of fresh air" to have something better, even if that is mostly a function of not having the same problems
Also: Probably check usernames: I've given Valve LOTS of money
I didn't cut anything off the page jumps there when you looks at reviews, so you never actually have to see those "ads".
IDK I'm guessing I just don't see the benefits really most. But l just think at worst the store page can be called boring. Maybe it's because I'm on ERA, but I feel like I'm drowning in releases more than anything else.
I've never hated them. The free games are awesome and the lack of features have been slightly overblown IMO. The store definitely has a long ways to go, but it's still functional and I don't mind having to click an extra couple times to launch a game. I was happy with that mega sale they had where I picked up two Quantic Dream games for 10 dollars each. I say this as someone who has been a Steam user for the past 10 years with over around 900 games. I just don't agree with the intense hatred towards EGS.
EGS is "competition" only in the sense that it made me appreciate Steam a lot more for everything it offers and caused me to spend more time/money on Steam sales.
You couldn't pay me to install the EGS client at this point. When I've got 100s of games already at my disposal, money-hatting exclusives or free stuff isn't going to come close to getting me to overlook all the bullshit.
You couldn't pay me to install the EGS client at this point. When I've got 100s of games already at my disposal, money-hatting exclusives or free stuff isn't going to come close to getting me to overlook all the bullshit.
There really isn't anything to argue about with the Epic Games Store. The exclusivity agreements are its sole defining element. The revenue split isn't industry leading, and beyond that is moot because Epic's statements and practices have revealed that it's unsustainable for them. Their curation practices are essentially a match for where Steam was a decade ago, and have the same issues. They've suggested no effective means of solving those issues. The store's broader featureset is uncompetitive. Without the exclusivity agreements the Epic Games Store would simply be a quiet failure, there would be no discussion of it at all.
Everything comes down to whether you find the practice of buying exclusivity acceptable. The only serious attempts I've seen here at defending this practice as something positive come down to essentially an appeal to a top down economy, where an already massively successful entity lifts up other entities that it specifically selects and gains marketshare by effectively purchasing the market itself directly. This practice, as Epic admits, is unsustainable, as the revenue source that fuels it is ultimately finite. It does result in monetary benefit for the chosen few, but that will end, and then we're simply waiting for the next megahit to emerge and power a different entity to market-buying wealth, at which point the process will start over again. If this sounds to you like a stable, ethical style of economy for the PC sector, then by all means, support Epic in this effort. If it sounds like a comically straightforward expression of the values of late stage capitalism, then, well, you're right.
Everything comes down to whether you find the practice of buying exclusivity acceptable. The only serious attempts I've seen here at defending this practice as something positive come down to essentially an appeal to a top down economy, where an already massively successful entity lifts up other entities that it specifically selects and gains marketshare by effectively purchasing the market itself directly. This practice, as Epic admits, is unsustainable, as the revenue source that fuels it is ultimately finite. It does result in monetary benefit for the chosen few, but that will end, and then we're simply waiting for the next megahit to emerge and power a different entity to market-buying wealth, at which point the process will start over again. If this sounds to you like a stable, ethical style of economy for the PC sector, then by all means, support Epic in this effort. If it sounds like a comically straightforward expression of the values of late stage capitalism, then, well, you're right.
I mean, they clearly become stakeholders in the game's success once they do their deal, even if this investment is not essential for the game's existence. So even if they had no "hand in making the game", theirs is still a positive contribution to the game's development and success and they stand to gain from the game's success as well as lose if it's a dud.
What's wrong with liking scat?
What's even more hilarious is that OP's example is a game yanked from Steam due to Epic buying exclusitivity.
EGS is a blight on PC gaming, from exclusives to lack of features (even using SteamVR), to charging companies for credit charges to many more things. Fuck EGS and Sweeney.
Oh no the uwp threads were real bad considering it did get very far. I and i imagine some others found that much more potentially damaging than this. We had some real knockdown drag outs on that one.
Oh funny thing about the uwp fans, too...
Um....Steam has free games given out too. So does GOG and other launchers.
Maybe it's not the one week free deal and they're sometimes smaller titles but they're still free games and they've been darn good.
Maybe it's not the one week free deal and they're sometimes smaller titles but they're still free games and they've been darn good.
The whole "starving developers" argument thing really falls apart for me the moment a dev accepts an upfront payment from Epic. I get why they might do it (though in case of Kickstarter titles, that's still spitting in the faces of people who initially supported their vision), and I respect whatever motivations they may have to keep the lights on, keep food on the table, financial security, etc.
But here's the funny part: once they accept the payout, they automatically stop being the "at risk game developers" . So, by this weird logic that I'm supposed to be a parton of games as art, rather than simply a discerning consumer, it's better for the industry that I support anyone other than a dev sponsored by Epic- because the games available though steam, GOG or itch.io don't have this financial cushion from Epic, and, it would follow, they need my money even more--for all the same reasons.
As for the OP: yeah, I can respect your opinion about liking the "uncluttered" look of the EGS storefront. I don't. I find the mobile/touch-screen- looking big tiles annoying, and the endless scrolling is tedious. Furthermore, I like having filters that automatically screen out games I will never buy (anything multi-player only), as well as games I'm highly unlikely to buy (anything in Early Access). And I like having tags to tell me what genre the game is in, along with a screenshot preview of what it would actually look like without having to go to the barebones store page. But to each his own.
Sure, I'll add a copy of a free game to my account now and then- I'm hoping Epic pays the devs something for these, so that me clicking that button costs them some more of their infinite Fortnite money- but I'm not planning to spend any money on that store- one of the main reasons being that Sweeney and Galyonkin still haven't wrapped their minds around the concept that Canadians aren't paid in USD. The others being their insistence that stuff like user forums is a thing of the past and I should sign up to Discord or Reddit if I want to ask a question for a technical fix for a game I buy on their store, as well as them trying to sell me less features for more money while simultaneously trying to convince me that is somehow "saving PC gaming". From the " evils of consumers' choice", I guess?
Do I hate the EGS? I'm strongly opposed to the ideals of EGS (exclusivity, walled garden) and I find their drivel about competition to be so blatantly wrong that it's insulting to me they could thing I'd actually believe it (my inbox gets nearly daily notices from GOG, Fanatical, GMG and Humble about games I like going on sale- THAT is competition I can appreciate). I'm also insulted they think they can offer me less features for more money and expect me to praise them for it. Sweeney's drivel that gets quoted here from time to time (I don't use the twittergrams, so I don't bother reading any of it myself) also annoys me, since I can't believe he's actually dumb enough to believe the drivel he's spouting (and occasionally he's just a dick- like congratulating GOG on their Cyberpunk sales, mere months after he pulled Phoenix Point from the store with his exclusivity deal, and acting as if nothing happened).
Is this enough to amount to hate? Probably not, it hasn't caused me as much grief as trying to play a GaFWL game. But "incredibly strong annoyance" at least.
But here's the funny part: once they accept the payout, they automatically stop being the "at risk game developers" . So, by this weird logic that I'm supposed to be a parton of games as art, rather than simply a discerning consumer, it's better for the industry that I support anyone other than a dev sponsored by Epic- because the games available though steam, GOG or itch.io don't have this financial cushion from Epic, and, it would follow, they need my money even more--for all the same reasons.
As for the OP: yeah, I can respect your opinion about liking the "uncluttered" look of the EGS storefront. I don't. I find the mobile/touch-screen- looking big tiles annoying, and the endless scrolling is tedious. Furthermore, I like having filters that automatically screen out games I will never buy (anything multi-player only), as well as games I'm highly unlikely to buy (anything in Early Access). And I like having tags to tell me what genre the game is in, along with a screenshot preview of what it would actually look like without having to go to the barebones store page. But to each his own.
Sure, I'll add a copy of a free game to my account now and then- I'm hoping Epic pays the devs something for these, so that me clicking that button costs them some more of their infinite Fortnite money- but I'm not planning to spend any money on that store- one of the main reasons being that Sweeney and Galyonkin still haven't wrapped their minds around the concept that Canadians aren't paid in USD. The others being their insistence that stuff like user forums is a thing of the past and I should sign up to Discord or Reddit if I want to ask a question for a technical fix for a game I buy on their store, as well as them trying to sell me less features for more money while simultaneously trying to convince me that is somehow "saving PC gaming". From the " evils of consumers' choice", I guess?
Do I hate the EGS? I'm strongly opposed to the ideals of EGS (exclusivity, walled garden) and I find their drivel about competition to be so blatantly wrong that it's insulting to me they could thing I'd actually believe it (my inbox gets nearly daily notices from GOG, Fanatical, GMG and Humble about games I like going on sale- THAT is competition I can appreciate). I'm also insulted they think they can offer me less features for more money and expect me to praise them for it. Sweeney's drivel that gets quoted here from time to time (I don't use the twittergrams, so I don't bother reading any of it myself) also annoys me, since I can't believe he's actually dumb enough to believe the drivel he's spouting (and occasionally he's just a dick- like congratulating GOG on their Cyberpunk sales, mere months after he pulled Phoenix Point from the store with his exclusivity deal, and acting as if nothing happened).
Is this enough to amount to hate? Probably not, it hasn't caused me as much grief as trying to play a GaFWL game. But "incredibly strong annoyance" at least.
Idk. I don't play on pc yet (hopefully in November!). But, I guess I don't get all of the hate. Does it run every game poorly? Are you paying vastly more for titles on EGS? Are there viruses? Are they invading your privacy? All it seems they do is get some store exclusivity window. Which is what all consoles do. Seems normal to me. Only problem I find is that I guess it's not available in every country, but is that really the dominating problem?
Idk. Maybe I need to be illuminated and read more of the thread
Idk. Maybe I need to be illuminated and read more of the thread
I mean its normal to pay for online with consoles, if epic did the same thing with their store they'd get flack. Once you start gaming on PC you'll understand why its uniqueness makes it great. Alot of shit that console gamers rolled over on never came to PC because of consumer anger.
It's great that EGS can give more exposure to smaller devs. However, just like everything else EGS is doing, this isn't sustainable. The more games that are added to the service, the harder it will be for them to be seen. Even if EGS doesn't accept as many games as Steam, you can't feature all games on the front page all of the time unless you expect users to spend 10 minutes scrolling.
It's worth noting that EGS' curation means the majority of indie games, good or otherwise, will never be allowed on the platform. Curation relies on arbitrary standards. In most cases, it boils down to presentation which means low-budget games with high-quality gameplay will almost always be rejected. Conversely, mediocre or crappy games that look nice are much more likely to be accepted.
It's worth noting that EGS' curation means the majority of indie games, good or otherwise, will never be allowed on the platform. Curation relies on arbitrary standards. In most cases, it boils down to presentation which means low-budget games with high-quality gameplay will almost always be rejected. Conversely, mediocre or crappy games that look nice are much more likely to be accepted.
I'm hate the exclusivity bullshit going on right now, all I see from it is greedy developers. It's such a barebones store that features not even a quarter of what steam offers and it will never been getting a single dime from me.
There is an inherent contradiction in Epic's store supposedly being a good thing for developers struggling to keep the lights on while the store will be off-limits to 90% of them.