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Zoantharia

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,860
Game looks great but I must admit backwards time travel is probably among my most irrationally hated plot devices ever across all forms of media. The only time it's really worked for me is Majora's Mask. I'll probably still have fun with the game but not because of the story.
 

falcondoc

Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,215
There's a lot of interesting and subversive things you can do by messing with canon but to me taking a tragic plot people were excited to learn more about and turning it into a typical fanservice-y crossover plot where everyone lives happily ever after is far from that.

Game still looks fun as heck but watching the past storyline play out and seeing how they incorporated the tragic ending into it was the thing I was most looking forward to from it

This sums it up well.
 

Roliq

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,181
There's a lot of interesting and subversive things you can do by messing with canon but to me taking a tragic plot people were excited to learn more about and turning it into a typical fanservice-y crossover plot where everyone lives happily ever after is far from that.

Game still looks fun as heck but watching the past storyline play out and seeing how they incorporated the tragic ending into it was the thing I was most looking forward to from it
The fact that people can't comprehend that the reason people were exited was because it was supposed to end with a sad ending and then being annoyed that will be a happy ending due to time-travel bullshit (the cheapest way to change a story) is dumb
 

Goldenh

Member
Feb 9, 2020
1,387
Game looks great but I must admit backwards time travel is probably among my most irrationally hated plot devices ever across all forms of media. The only time it's really worked for me is Majora's Mask. I'll probably still have fun with the game but not because of the story.

Literally same. It feels so cheap to me when that's the route someone chose in any story telling.
 

Merc_

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,526
Man, folks just jumping completely to conclusions in here. Nobody has even completed the damn game yet.
 

Zaiven

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Nov 12, 2019
2,182
The thing about "messing with canon" or whatever is that AoC isn't merely altering what we know of BotW's backstory--it's literally invalidating it. BotW and AoC cannot co-exist in the same world, or timeline or whatever. If AoC happens, then BotW cannot happen; and if BotW happens, then AoC did not happen. They cannot both be true at the same time. AoC seems to go out of its way to ensure that the great calamity, as it is depicted in BotW, did not happen. I still maintain that Nintendo misled the audience with its original announcement of the game.

Thinking about it over supper and a few hours of leisure, my guess now is that Nintendo is creating a new split timeline, OoT-style. This goes along with what I've been saying since BotW's release: the old timeline is dead and buried, to be replaced from this point forth with a new, BotW-centered LoZ series. Nintendo can make a sequel to BotW that follows up on that game (which is probably what BotW 2 is) and one that follows up on the alternate timeline presented in AoC. So now Nintendo gets to have its cake and eat it, too. They can go back to making games regardless of where they fit in the timeline without having to bother with the 25 or so years of messy history that happened before BotW. It's Wind Waker and Twilight Princess all over again!

Geniuses. They're always 10 steps ahead of the rest of us (I'm honestly not sure if I mean that sarcastically or not).
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,127
The thing about "messing with canon" or whatever is that AoC isn't merely altering what we know of BotW's backstory--it's literally invalidating it. BotW and AoC cannot co-exist in the same world, or timeline or whatever. If AoC happens, then BotW cannot happen; and if BotW happens, then AoC did not happen. They cannot both be true at the same time. AoC seems to go out of its way to ensure that the great calamity, as it is depicted in BotW, did not happen. I still maintain that Nintendo misled the audience with its original announcement of the game.

Thinking about it over supper and a few hours of leisure, my guess now is that Nintendo is creating a new split timeline, OoT-style. This goes along with what I've been saying since BotW's release: the old timeline is dead and buried, to be replaced from this point forth with a new, BotW-centered LoZ series. Nintendo can make a sequel to BotW that follows up on that game (which is probably what BotW 2 is) and one that follows up on the alternate timeline presented in AoC. So now Nintendo gets to have its cake and eat it, too. They can go back to making games regardless of where they fit in the timeline without having to bother with the 25 or so years of messy history that happened before BotW. It's Wind Waker and Twilight Princess all over again!

Geniuses. They're always 10 steps ahead of the rest of us (I'm honestly not sure if I mean that sarcastically or not).
They can coexist as parallel timelines. The Zelda timeline literally had games occurring on three separate parallel timelines splitting off from OoT based on whether Link stayed in the adult timeline at the end of OoT (resulting in TWW, PH, ST, etc), or stayed in the child timeline (resulting in MM, TP, etc), or even the third timeline where he failed (leading to ALTTP, LA, etc).

Likewise, here we start with BotW's calamity and split off into the parallel timelines of AoC (victory now) and BotW (victory delayed). Either one can do anything they want without affecting the other.

edit: I see you came to realize this. Good!
 

Zaiven

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Nov 12, 2019
2,182
They can coexist. The Zelda timeline literally had games occurring on three separate parallel timelines splitting off from OoT based on whether Link stayed in the adult timeline at the end of OoT (resulting in TWW, PH, ST, etc), or stayed in the child timeline (resulting in MM, TP, etc), or even the third timeline where he failed (leading to ALTTP, LA, etc).

Likewise, here we start with BotW's calamity and split off into the parallel timelines of AoC (victory now) and BotW (victory delayed). Either one can do anything they want without affecting the other.
I know. That's... exactly what I'm saying. Nintendo's making a new split timeline with AoC.

But BotW and AoC cannot coexist in the same timeline, just as Wind Waker and Twilight Princess cannot coexist in the same timeline. The events of AoC literally prevent BotW from happening. If AoC happens, it means BotW cannot happen in that timeline's future. Likewise, if BotW happens, it means AoC did not happen in that timeline's past.

And I still fail to understand how advertising a game as being "the battles of the Great Calamity" (as we understood it to be from BotW, our only frame of reference at the time--besides Creating a Champion, potentially) and yet actually delivering a game that literally ensures that the Great Calamity as we understood it did not happen is not considered to be misleading.
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,127
I know. That's... exactly what I'm saying. Nintendo's making a new split timeline with AoC.

But BotW and AoC cannot coexist in the same timeline, just as Wind Waker and Twilight Princess cannot coexist in the same timeline. The events of AoC literally prevent BotW from happening. If AoC happens, it means BotW cannot happen in that timeline's future. Likewise, if BotW happens, it means AoC did not happen in that timeline's past.
Yeah, sorry, I get what you're saying now. I don't think anyone here is arguing they're the same timeline, tho. Just that AoC is canonical since it splits off of BotW's calamity.
 

residentgrigo

Banned
Oct 30, 2019
3,726
Germany
Playable Ganon. The only news I needed. It game leaked 2 days early. That´s ok I guess. There have been much more severe cases on the Switch.
zelda_ii_game_over.png
 

Deleted member 34873

User-requested account closure
Banned
Nov 29, 2017
1,460
User Warned (Permanent Thread Ban): Drive-by, Trolling
Now I'm mostly excited to play this game so I can get the full experience of butthurt fans.
 

donpiano

Member
Nov 15, 2017
667
Unless it's the main theme of the story, I hate time travel as a plot device (*cough* Endgame *cough*). So that's already a -1 from me. Let's see how they manage to make it work after that.
 

Potterson

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,410
Eh, I don't give a damn about time travel. If the story is nice and characters are cool, why would I care that it doesn't "impact" anything in the fictional future? It's a prequel anyway, so it would not change Breath of the Wild story.
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,127
I've been watching a French-language stream (I don't speak or read French tho, lol), and even with the language barrier, the characters and characterization in this already seem way more nuanced, fleshed out and heartfelt than BotW. Some sweet Zelda/Rhoam and Zelda/Urbosa moments, and the new villain is intriguing. Also, Impa is hilarious.
 

TDLink

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
Maybe try this thing called... empathy?

This was sold on the supposition that it'd flesh out a tragic story, which is a first for both Zelda and a musou. That sounded ambitious and exciting for people.

Instead, we're getting something that squashes that possibility. You really can't understand why someone might be disappointed?
At the end of the day it's just a video game. Look, I really don't want to be mean, but the fact that anyone needs to be "empathetic" to people not liking the way it turned out is laughable.

It's a spin-off musou game of Zelda -- a franchise that has never had a great story or been story-centric. The first game was all about time travel shenanigans. The Zelda series in general has time travel shenanigans. This stuff is all completely on brand and not really out of left field.

On top of that, not everything has even leaked. And what HAS leaked basically confirms the entire story people wanted will still be there, in full... just instead of ending the way we already knew it would thanks to BOTW, instead they are doing an alternate "happy" ending, essentially. I really don't see what the fuss is about considering that. It's seriously the best of both worlds, and way better than just getting to an inevitable known conclusion (which is often the problem with prequels).
 

AnimaRize

Banned
Nov 7, 2020
3,483
Thinking about it. I am surprised they can call this game canon while hyrule warriors original is not when it literally combines the 3 timelines into one which would be perfect for breath of the wild's placement. It's just weird
 

Oddish1

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,818
Thinking about it. I am surprised they can call this game canon while hyrule warriors original is not when it literally combines the 3 timelines into one which would be perfect for breath of the wild's placement. It's just weird
Hyrule Warriors is meant to be a consequence free fanservice game. Trying to make it canon would undermine that aspect.

Also, it bothers me way more than it should that the game treats Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf as always reincarnating as a fact.
 

Robotoboy

Member
Oct 7, 2018
1,060
Tulsa, OK
Like do we know for absolutely sure that it ends happily? I'll be a bit peeved if it does because a sad ending would have worked. Having the Champions fall would make for a really strong ending.

If it does end happily that's still cool though. I honestly don't like the bait Nintendo used as it's marketing though. It's being billed as a "prequel" and sure... they haven't outright called it that, but nothing in the trailers, or marketing has indicated that this is an alternate take on the war 100 years prior to BotW. If they just billed it as such by showing off Riju, and Teba and stuff then yeah, it would be a lot more honest, and the game would STILL sell quite well. Instead they've been purposefully misleading with the marketing.

That's... concerning. You can argue technicalities all you want about Nintendo never coming out and saying it's not a "prequel" to BotW... but they've been purposefully vague about it's purpose as a game, and that is frustrating. Nobody from the marketing team, or the Treehouse has made mention of it not exactly being a prequel so much as a reimagining of the events leading up to BotW. Instead they've teased ONLY the 4 original champions, and made nods to events that happened in BotW's version of history. The only outright clue that it's not a direct prequel we've gotten is the time-traveling R2D2. Which fine, but being purposefully misleading is a bit screwy imo.

All that said I plan to play it anyways, because I love BotW's world, atmosphere and lore. It's a cool concept to depict the war prior to BotW that left Hyrule in ruins, even if it's just a fan-fic version of the story. That said I wonder how they're going to implement Teba, and Sidon and stuff... that's going to be some... Fire Emblem Awakening level ugh if done wrong.
 

Aostia82

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,366
The fact that people can't comprehend that the reason people were exited was because it was supposed to end with a sad ending and then being annoyed that will be a happy ending due to time-travel bullshit (the cheapest way to change a story) is dumb


Don't get me wrong, I totally understand
but what I'm not understanding is the fact that to me the interest was in the whole story, not just in the sad ending (we at least partially already know about, through the memeories in BotW)
We already know that there was a sad ending that caused the event in BotW, while we know only little snippets about the whole story of 100 years ago
This game IS telling us that story, probably with the twist at the end: that I totally understand that could be disappointing, but it's not that we aren't going THROUGH ALL the events that led to the end VS happy ending
 

Bonejack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,654
Missed the last 5 pages over the night, but from what i got flying over them is that there indeed are two or even more endings?

*Sees last post from Redhead* Oh ... that certainly looks like the case.

Btw Redhead thanks for keeping this thread up to date since yesterday. ^^
 

donpiano

Member
Nov 15, 2017
667
I have absolutely no idea whether it's true or not, but I read on reddit that the first playthrough is cannon and connects with BotW, while the second one has more characters and all the time travel shenanigans.

I hope that's true, sounds like a good way to implement the usual musou nonsensical stuff without messing up the main story.
 

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,127
Oh nice, I just watched a mission set in the jungles, in the rain, at night, with torchlit ruins and a Impa getting all up in Zelda's face at the end with a pep talk. I forsee people shipping those two!
 

Bonejack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,654
I have absolutely no idea whether it's true or not, but I read on reddit that the first playthrough is cannon and connects with BotW, while the second one has more characters and all the time travel shenanigans.

I hope that's true, sounds like a good way to implement the usual musou nonsensical stuff without messing up the main story.

That would honestly be a good way to deal with those two / multiple endings.

Basically the first playthrough would be the "story" one, the second some "adventure mode" happy end thing. That could even bring me to play through it more than once. ^^
 

Robotoboy

Member
Oct 7, 2018
1,060
Tulsa, OK
That would honestly be a good way to deal with those two / multiple endings.

Basically the first playthrough would be the "story" one, the second some "adventure mode" happy end thing. That could even bring me to play through it more than once. ^^

If there are multiple endings that's actually BETTER than the other two alternatives. I don't mind that at all, and even welcome it!
 

donpiano

Member
Nov 15, 2017
667
Quoting u/Metroid311 from reddit:

This is what I found out.:

TL;DR:

Mini-Guardian timeloop confirmed; first loop we see is canon one. First playthrough is the canon one where the champions get ganked on the way to the beasts, Hyrule falls, Link almost dies evacuating Zelda, etc. Last boss is Zelda sealing Ganon Second loop however has Mini-Guardian corrupted and attack Zelda earlier on before Guardian army at large is corrupted Link tanks the shot and is badly hurt as it destroys his shield, and she unlocks her powers and uses the slate to purify it From that point on you save the Champions, meet the Guardian army head-on, purify it using the tower network+slate after Purah figures out how to hook them up and Zelda broadcasts her power through them Last boss is chain of battles vs Ganon ending in Link using Master Sword to slay him Every subsequent NG+ is a new timeline following one of those routes after mini guardian gets sent back
Take this with grain of salt.
 
OP
OP
Phendrift

Phendrift

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,293
I don't wanna get my hopes up too high, since we have all the pretendered cutscenes right? And surely there would be prerendered ones for the bad ending right?
 

Bonejack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,654
So ... that sounds like a Roguelike-lite Musou with every playthrough after the first two being random between one of the two storylines. ^^
 

Bonejack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,654
How could someone have NG+ the game three times at this point is my question lol

Maybe some info that dataminers found out and not necessarily someone who already played through the game? I don't know.

Still, that there's two end-credits themes is a fact given that Redhead posted the YT videos, so i think we can safely assume that there's at least two different endings.
If this is done via multiple playthroughs or via some requirements the player has to meet during a playthrough is still open, i'd agree with that.
 

Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
I know it's fun to speculate but I don't think we can make any definite calls either way. People should probably know by now that trying to piece together a story from partial leaked material as well as unverified and potentially unreliable information is a fool's errand. I also saw someone on youtube post that there are multiple endings and only when pressed admitted that they were just speculating. It's entirely possible that the alternative ending theme is somewhere tucked away in the game's files and isn't even used.
 

Robotoboy

Member
Oct 7, 2018
1,060
Tulsa, OK
Well... I will say. I've been playing BotW, and I just asked Purah about the Sheikah Slate - She mentions that she never figured out how to put the Bomb/Magnesis/Stasis runes on the device, and that Zelda's slate only had the album, and sensor on it prior to Links slumber. So we know for a fact that there some inconsistency no matter what. No matter what the story is going deviate a bit from what actually happened in BotW's past.