Hypersexualised Women in Ads in Cyberpunk 2077

[Chettlar]

You seem quite upset, do you think maybe you could take it down a notch? I admitted in the very post you quoted that I don't have all the answers and I'm looking to get more perspectives on this issue.

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I guess I'm not sure how that's coming across. Is it like the volume of writing here or what?

I'm not trying to attack you for not having the answers. I'm trying to explain to you why you have gotten some of the reactions you've gotten and that the core issue here isn't that people disagree with you; it's that you aren't really clear on what you want to say. I'm trying to be helpful.

I didn't see a lack of representation and think 'I want more diverse porn ads in this game please', I saw an overwhelming amount of sexualised women in two trailers for a game set in an enormous world and questioned what value there was in their inclusion.

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If you want an accurate honest depiction of the type of world cyberpunk as a genre criticizes, sanitizing it does not make much sense. The value is evident. I'm not sure how to explain this to you.

I think it makes sense that if they want to depict a capitalist world taken to the extreme that everyone would be sexualised, but I honestly don't trust CD Projekt Red (based on their back catalogue and all the PR surrounding this game) to handle those kinds of themes with the nuance and tact they require.

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That is something only the final game can answer. Regardless of how they do handle it however, doesn't explain criticizing the inclusion of sexually explicit advertisement. Cyberpunk, portrayed authentically to the entire purpose of the genre, in a piece of media designed to comprehensively explore its themes, WILL contain that. So criticizing them for doing so does not make sense. Criticizing them for how they address that? I mean, sure, but the game is not out yet and we don't know how they are addressing it.

 

[PennyStonks]

cyberpunk is rarely about attempting accurate futurism. cyberpunk 2077 even less so. a lot of the tech they show in the game is seemingly less elegant that current solutions because they're going for a retro cyberpunk vibe. similarly to blade runner 2049

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I guess the core of what I'm thinking is that Cyberpunk needs some updating. The Just Write video on the last page outlines how Mr. Robot hits the framework of cyberpunk perfectly without the common aesthetic.

 

[Chettlar]

Definitely. And that's part of why I think not having it be known cyberpunk for that section would be more effective. Because if you withheld that information from the player and character it could lead to some great moments. Especially as a video game where you may expect something like supernatural elements or visions to be misleading you but really you're seeing technological breakdown. It could be fun in that usually there's something like, "The AI decided humanity was evil!" But in this case I imagine it would be purely error, but humanity being what it is some people would take it as a government conspiracy and start to rebel. People's minds would be the only true antagonist. Just a bunch of individuals trying to justify what is happening as needing to have a reason, but it's solely companies being cheap with their systems to mass produce giving out, ultimately having created the problem due to negligence and greed, and their need to target individuals so their profits constantly improve year to year.

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Fuck I like that a lot.

I mean the purpose of cyberpunk is critique. And a lot of successful media that critiques a lot of times does not say so up front. Taking a futuristic setting and have it devolve into cyberpunk sounds awesome.

Too bad like, the marketers for the game doing so would want to talk about the cyberpunk stuff to sell it to cyberpunk fans. Ironically.

 

[Dmax3901]

I'm not trying to attack you for not having the answers. I'm trying to explain to you why you have gotten some of the reactions you've gotten and that the core issue here isn't that people disagree with you; it's that you aren't really clear on what you want to say. I'm trying to be helpful.

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I have to go offline cause there's a literal storm about to wreak havoc here but I just wanted to say that the amount of people who were banned or have posted something dismissive has nothing to do with how clear or not clear my OP was, lol.

 

[Chettlar]

I have to go offline cause there's a literal storm about to wreak havoc here but I just wanted to say that the amount of people who were banned or have posted something dismissive has nothing to do with how clear or not clear my OP was, lol.

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Again, as I said, I don't like the dismissive posts. Resetera seems to be full of that kind of thing.

What I am saying is the lack of more in depth responses definitely has to do with your lack of point. And I'm trying to illustrate where it is lacking.

 

[Wesley]

Fuck this game. Great work compiling all this, OP.

There's nothing clever about the imagery they're using here - yes, overt sexualisation in advertising and worldbuilding has long been a thing in cyberpunk fiction, but usually it serves some sort of purpose or feeds in to the political intent or themes of the work. Here it's just 'edgy' for edgy's sake.

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lol the game isn't even out.

I should be clear that the reason I laughed was because for all we know this stuff does tie into themes of the game and has some decent intent. You're saying it doesn't based on... marketing up until now?

 

[Budi]

This is a good topic of discussion, shame people come to post just to be dismissive and even mock. Was frustrating to see the thread locked constantly.

Reading the thread made me think of Phoebe "I sometimes worry that I wouldn't be such a feminist if I had bigger tits." Waller-Bridge and her working on the new Bond film. As she stated Bond should stay true to his character, he can be sexist but the script shouldn't be. I think same applies here, the world they're depicting is problematic in multiple ways. But staying true to problematic alternative version of the US and earth, isn't bad or condemnable in it itself. Though it's also understandable that many aren't interested to spend their time in such a world and will be skipping the game, that's fair and people don't owe any explanations of it to anyone. Personal choices what you're going to play and not, aren't something to be debated. If you don't want to see this shit, you're not being too sensitive or just looking to get offended. And for those wondering why I included the quote, it's from her show Fleabag (go watch it people). Pulled entirely out of context, it could be taken as the commonly seen nonsense of feminist women being who they are, because they're not attractive to straight males so they grow bitter and so on. But watching the show, I feel it's not at all problematic. I wouldn't be suprised if someone thought I was adding my own commentary of her there.

Another recent thing this topic reminds me of is the controversial French film Cuties. Depiction versus endorsement of sexualization discussion happened around that too. Netflix definitely missed the point in their original marketing (they apologized and changed it). I don't think CDPR have done it to the same extent, atleast yet. They've been selling the world where the hypersexualized ads are part of it, but not the main point. Though admittedly, I haven't been following the marketing super closely. And even with best intentions, both Cuties and CP77 can still be criticized for the execution.

I also think it's clear, that there's a target painted behind CDPRs back and they are under extra scrutiny, but it's mostly of their own doing. Not just because of their games, but especially because of their social media. Still with female representation/depiction they've been getting much better. Those collectable pin up cards we often bring up, haven't been a thing in 13 years. Witcher 3 still had things like Ves going to battle, with her tits hanging out from opened up shirt. Thronebreaker though, had nothing of that as I recall. I don't think some people giving benefit of the doubt to CDPR at this is odd at all, specifically when considering their history. They've improved from game to game. Hopefully that would still be the case. But also I don't think the game is going to hit you with a hammer in the head by yelling out "sexualization is bad!". And with creative teams as big as CDPR has, it's impossible to say what the motives and intentions of any given artist are.

This reminds me about the 2 leads in altered carbon season 1 being asked about the nude scenes, the guy was swedish and the woman was mexican and they both said their counties were much more relaxed about nakedness so im wondering if the people hung up on this are from more uptight countries?

Not having played cp2077 yet there was an interview with a producer from altered carbon where she explained their reasons and it would apply to cp2077 aswell. You may still not agree with the reasons or logic, but if your doing something like a story in a setting where your body is almost as replaceable as your car it kinda makes sense.

Altered Carbon's Showrunner Talks The Show's High Nudity Quotient

Altered Carbon is a show that is obsessed with nipples. There are nipples, and butts, and general displays of nudity, absolutely everywhere, from the pilot on. According to showrunner, writer, and executive producer Laeta Kalogridis, that's done for intentional effect. Talking to Gamespot a...

www.gizmodo.com.au

Talking to Gamespot a couple days ago, she said, "Our worst instincts as human beings have to do with our carelessness with natural resources, and when the body itself becomes just one more of those resources, how will we treat it? Will we treat it with such indifference and with such depersonalization that it becomes more like a very fancy car than a repository of the self?"

This, she explained, is the reason for the show's nudity: it illustrates the frivolousness of the future's bodies. "And that, I think, is one reason that the nudity itself is not gratuitous; it's meant to reinforce to you, as a viewer, that the advent of this technology fundamentally and substantially changes people's relationships with their idea of their own body," Kalogridis said."

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Don't mistake nudity or sexuality as sexualization. Though you are correct that different cultures have different (by average) views on nudity, sexuality and also sexualization. But this topic isn't about nudity. I can't comment if Altered Carbon went for any hypersexualized depictions as I dropped the show after some episodes.

Isn't this how games like GTA got successful in the first place? Because you could sleep with hookers in your car and go to strip clubs and people thought it was cool.

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No, this is incredibly reductive and incorrect take on a game where the newest installment alone has sold 130 million copies.

 

[Lion]

The Just Write video on the last page outlines how Mr. Robot hits the framework of cyberpunk perfectly without the common ascetic.

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I think you mean aesthetic. Ascetic means something completely different.

 

[Kyuuji]

lol the game isn't even out.

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Yet it's had numerous marketing deep dives that perpetually swerve from highlighting any nuance to the world or its alleged commentary, in favour of endlessly highlighting how cool it all looks or plays. Particularly from the trans corner, as a group CDPR are well aware of it's past issues with, we've been asking for a small video or dive into how they are handling these themes since that first image broke.

In response we've had confirmation that pronouns are determined by the pitch of your voice and interviews speaking to the importance of reflecting a range of political sympathies of staff in their game, at a time when trans people (among others in the LGBTQ+ community) are being driven out of the country they're largely based in.

So yes, the game isn't out, but CDPR seems keenly averse to actually detailing some of this alleged nuance in favour of pandering to the usual crowd on twitter and going on at length with this commercialized "fuck yeh, punk shit" attitude that seems less a critique of that very same thing and more a reflection of the surface level read they appear to be giving.

There's zero reason to give any benefit to the doubt and, considering their past issues, the onus is on them if they want to be taken seriously with these topics pre-release.

 

[Daouzin]

I wish the internet would grow up. The drive-by posts are so childish.

People can like things that other people criticize, you can have a criticism of things you like and you can discuss those critiques even if you personally don't identify with the lens being used on that media. It's all crazy to me. If people don't want to discuss this, just stay out of the thread and play the game when it comes out. Like what is the point of jumping in here.

I think the OP made some good points and the studio doesn't have a great track record so it's 100% fair to assume these backdrop posters are unnecessary. I also don't understand how something being a trope of a genre makes it 100% free of any criticism related to that. Genres evolve over time.

 

[Razmos]

I love how this dystopian oversexualised future people are defending here is just the modern worlds heteronormativity cranked up, almost like its a short sighted exclusionary vision from a sexist and transphobic company hmmmm

 

[Kyuuji]

I love how this dystopian oversexualised future people are defending here is just the modern worlds heteronormativity cranked up, almost like its a short sighted exclusionary vision from a sexist and transphobic company hmmmm

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Altered Carbon's writer is also a transphobe so it's interesting how these people are drawn to the genre despite having such a rigid sense of gender and self themselves.

 

[Razmos]

Altered Carbon's writer is also a transphobe so it's interesting how these people are drawn to the genre despite having such a rigid sense of gender and self themselves.

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A future where people can have robotic limbs and body modifications is cool but a future where transgender people exist is no bueno apparently.
They are hypocrites and idiots and ive been saying it since the beginning. How can you have a setting about transhumanism but be against being transgender? Its mad.
And if they can't nail that fundamental part of the setting how can anyone have faith that the rest of it will be done well?

 

[Rotobit]

Some of the responses in this thread are just plain creepy and offputting.

I think my issue with this (and the rest of the game in general) is that it's hard to say if the game is even trying to do the right thing by Cyberpunk as a genre, where it should be a reflection of society as it stands now. This sort of hyper-sexualization of women seems more like an exaggeration of advertising between the '80s and 2000's. While sexualized ads still exist today, obviously, they aren't as prevalent as when a lot of seminal pieces of cyberpunk media got their start. It'd be like if the game seriously tapped into those same '80s anxieties of Japan tech companies essentially dominating the world. It's cheesy and outdated.

If they want to show that society has regressed, sure, that could be pretty cool and poignant given how society in general seems to be making numerous strides backwards in 2020. But the proof will be in the pudding. From what I've seen of the game it seems more focused on mimicking early cyberpunk media without actually saying anything. I'd love to be wrong, but I don't have much hope.

 

[phonicjoy]

I love how this dystopian oversexualised future people are defending here is just the modern worlds heteronormativity cranked up, almost like its a short sighted exclusionary vision from a sexist and transphobic company hmmmm

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I dont think our heteronormative future version will have ads of trans people with boners.

There is a version of this game that is super interesting, has these ads and ties it in to hyper capitalism and such.

Considering the source material and that Mike Pondsmith is involved and he meant the state of the cyberpunk world as a warning, not an aspiration, I'm going to give it the benefit of the doubt for now.

 

[MrMysterio]

The GTA school of satire

I love how this dystopian oversexualised future people are defending here is just the modern worlds heteronormativity cranked up, almost like its a short sighted exclusionary vision from a sexist and transphobic company hmmmm

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This times 1000.
"Sex sells!", "It's hypersexualisation!" - while catering to almost exclusively thirsty male heteros.
If sex sells is your argument then you are omitting a massive chunk of the market.

Unless those markets are deemed just too otherworldly to even be considered sex (which CDPR has a history of doing as mentioned before).

Also, those ads do not feature nudity and are merely the sexual fantasy of 14-year old boys.
"A swappable mouth I can put my wiener in!" - genius!

Just from a purely sexual perspective, these ads are laughable and would serve as a warning sign to look elsewhere for the good stuff.

"This game will make you cum in 2 seconds!" really isn't hypersexualisation boys.

 

[Igor]

Whole post

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Some excellent points. Super insightful.

I am personally two minds about this issue - I think part of the appeal of Witcher 3 was that they created a world that felt unwelcoming and uncomfortable to be in. I get what Cyberpunk is trying to go for here as well, but I think they do not have quality of writers to handle the topics well (just judging from W3). Putting a trans person with a visible crotch line is going to upset people - it's subversive with a finesse of a sledgehammer. It dilutes the point they are trying to make and even in the interviews the artist responsible lacked the language and research to defend her point. Again with everything so hyper sexualised - is there going to be an example of counterpoint solely to highlight this? Because if everything is hyper sexualised, then nothing is - there is no self awareness and no argument made about the issue - but we will have to wait for this.

As Budi pointed out with Fleabag example, the script itself should not be sexist if it tries to talk about sexist issues. I hate the argument that "well, this fantasy world is sexist, therefore..." - it is so naive. The power of the media is that we can include Black, LGBTQI+ and Handicapped lives as valid and thriving and normalise them. I don't think we should avoid to sexualise any of these bodies - they are beautiful and deserve the spotlight just as much - but not in a way that Is exploitative of their creator's agenda.

IMO CDPR is doing piss poor job with the delivery and they are robbing themselves of a meaningful discussion about the topic, but maybe it is just safe to assume they are only pretending to be interested in having one.

 

[Flipyap]

A future where people can have robotic limbs and body modifications is cool but a future where transgender people exist is no bueno apparently.
They are hypocrites and idiots and ive been saying it since the beginning. How can you have a setting about transhumanism but be against being transgender? Its mad.
And if they can't nail that fundamental part of the setting how can anyone have faith that the rest of it will be done well?

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What's mad about it? Cyberpunk is generally critical of transhumanism and body modification. Just because the genre contains the tools that could allow one to create an inclusive setting doesn't mean that it will automatically become one.

I dont think our heteronormative future version will have ads of trans people with boners.

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Those ads are like that only because the artists responsible for them didn't care to figure out any other way of portraying a trans body. You'll notice that they don't resort to focusing on genitals to portray other bodies. Their dick enhancement ad doesn't even feature a dick!
The ads don't really say much about the setting, but they speak volumes about the people who made them.

 

[GhostofWar]

Don't mistake nudity or sexuality as sexualization. Though you are correct that different cultures have different (by average) views on nudity, sexuality and also sexualization. But this topic isn't about nudity. I can't comment if Altered Carbon went for any hypersexualized depictions as I dropped the show after some episodes.

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They did, the story arc about the girls death he is investigating in the first or 2nd episode.

Spoiler: Alter Carbon S1 Spoiler

Leads to a prostitution ring where they are being used for kill/torture/hypersexualised fantasies because they can be resleeved.

 

[Razmos]

What's mad about it? Cyberpunk is generally critical of transhumanism and body modification. Just because the genre contains the tools that could allow one to create an inclusive setting doesn't mean that it will automatically become one.

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Because it doesn't make sense to exclude them. In a world where such crazy bodily changes are commonplace why wouldn't transgender people be normalised unless the creators chose not to make it so. Considering how bigoted the company has shown themselves to be i dont think "its a harsh world they are portraying!" Is enough to give them the benefit of the doubt

 

[Asbsand]

Hypersexualization is a big part of cyberpunk as a genre. That may not make it right, but it is a dystopian world. It's not meant to be our world. Almost everyone in these stories is scummy.

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/Thread.

 

[phonicjoy]

Those ads are like that only because the artists responsible for them didn't care to figure out any other way of portraying a trans body. You'll notice that they don't resort to focusing on genitals to portray other bodies. Their dick enhancement ad doesn't even feature a dick!
The ads don't really say much about the setting, but they speak volumes about the people who made them.

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Its still not a heteronormative ad. And some of those ads with men feature dick outlines. That in and of itself is an interesting point of discussion that the game could tackle: does capitalism at some point overrule heteronormativity because there is a sizeable non-straight market. But, again, we'll have to wait and see if there is any substance to all this at all.

 

[Skade]

I mean... Yeah, it's poor taste. But it was to be expected. I'd even add it would probably have felt weird if we didn't saw those things... It's meant to be this way. It's part of the expected aestethic of a cyberpunk world.

It's like the gangster clichés and prostitutes in a GTA game. It would'nt change the gameplay or the story if they weren't there, but it would feel weird.


Now the question is if the game will try to make some characters question this kind of things in the game. That would be interesting. But somehow, i doubt we'll see that.

 

[Sia]

I think this would be ok if they just hypersexualized both men and women equally. I am pro hyper sexualization of both genders, I don't really understand all these puritanical attitudes towards sex and sexuality when you are playing games where you murder 100s of people.

 

[Cerulean_skylark]

It's cyberpunk, capitalism loves selling bodies. It makes perfect sense

 

[xpownz]

It's a world drown in capitalism and it's also screwed up in any kind of ethic/moral. It may be saturated, but it fits the scene...
Also, this game is probably PEGI 18, right?

 

[balgajo]

Given cyberpunk usually uses current society problems and take it to extreme the hypersexualized ads seems a fair thing to have in the game.

The other day I was travelling back to my city and I saw a huge outdoor with a woman wearing a red underwear in a sexy pose. When the card got a bit closer I could see that it was a construction cement ad. A fucking construction cement. What does it have to do with a woman wearing a red underwear?

 

[Tovarisc]

In vacuum and by themselves these hypersexualized ads are very exploitative and morally corrupt, but I imagine that is the intention. To be offensive and loud with it. If game doesn't do anything meaningful with this and just has hypersexualized content to have it without commentary on why that direction for society is harmful then that is very condemnable. Same time I do have some faith that game will go into it at deeper level, e.g. game has gang called Moxex. They are group of independent and organized sex workers who broke free from gang and corporation who basically owned them before, now looking after each other and still oppressed sex workers.

Hypersexualized society and group like Moxes... how they couldn't engage at deeper level than just have these ads as window dressing?

I'm giving CDPR benefit of doubt until I play the game, but not giving them one is also more than understandable with their social media team being toxic and immature without signs of improvement.

Some of the responses in this thread are just plain creepy and offputting.

I think my issue with this (and the rest of the game in general) is that it's hard to say if the game is even trying to do the right thing by Cyberpunk as a genre, where it should be a reflection of society as it stands now. This sort of hyper-sexualization of women seems more like an exaggeration of advertising between the '80s and 2000's. While sexualized ads still exist today, obviously, they aren't as prevalent as when a lot of seminal pieces of cyberpunk media got their start. It'd be like if the game seriously tapped into those same '80s anxieties of Japan tech companies essentially dominating the world. It's cheesy and outdated.

If they want to show that society has regressed, sure, that could be pretty cool and poignant given how society in general seems to be making numerous strides backwards in 2020. But the proof will be in the pudding. From what I've seen of the game it seems more focused on mimicking early cyberpunk media without actually saying anything. I'd love to be wrong, but I don't have much hope.

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Well it does to that that '80s anxiety. Arasaka is one of the mega corporations that basically rule the world, it's founded in Japan and HQ is in Japan with branches across the world.

Cyberpunk 2077 is very much linear progression and continuation of Cyberpunk IP, starting with 2020 and RED in the middle. Game was never going to be a cyberpunk production that reflects on our society in 2010s and how it would be as dystopian society in 2077 if current trajectories are kept. Like e.g. street gang "6th Street" comes across as hardcore MAGA warriors, but according the devs it's more coincidence than social commentary planned by them.

This game was never going to be "a reflection of society as it stands now" as it never set out to be that.

Do you think you are reflecting what you expect or want cyberpunk to be onto this game, at least when it comes to social commentary?

Just something I have noticed here and there in many 77 threads. People project their perception of cyberpunk to this game while this game has always been just continuation of CyberPunk IP that is very different than e.g. BladeRunner take on cyberpunk.

 

[StrangeRoboMemory]

I guess I'm not sure how that's coming across. Is it like the volume of writing here or what?

I'm not trying to attack you for not having the answers. I'm trying to explain to you why you have gotten some of the reactions you've gotten and that the core issue here isn't that people disagree with you; it's that you aren't really clear on what you want to say. I'm trying to be helpful.

If you want an accurate honest depiction of the type of world cyberpunk as a genre criticizes, sanitizing it does not make much sense. The value is evident. I'm not sure how to explain this to you.

That is something only the final game can answer. Regardless of how they do handle it however, doesn't explain criticizing the inclusion of sexually explicit advertisement. Cyberpunk, portrayed authentically to the entire purpose of the genre, in a piece of media designed to comprehensively explore its themes, WILL contain that. So criticizing them for doing so does not make sense. Criticizing them for how they address that? I mean, sure, but the game is not out yet and we don't know how they are addressing it.

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Great points all around, thanks for articulating this so well.

 

[Biggersmaller]

Its still not a heteronormative ad. And some of those ads with men feature dick outlines. That in and of itself is an interesting point of discussion that the game could tackle: does capitalism at some point overrule heteronormativity because there is a sizeable non-straight market. But, again, we'll have to wait and see if there is any substance to all this at all.

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This has been my reaction to these images. Considering the whole of the images we've seen, it seems to be aiming for erotic and not misogynistic. However, I will need to see how the overall context of the game handles these topics before I can say for sure.

 

[Deleted member 8257]

I have ALWAYS been against sexualized ads in general. The "sex sells" stuff always grated my conscience. Like, how depraved our society has become we are trying to give men boners so they buy your product? If your product was fucking good in the first place it should not need sexualized factor to boost it. It should sell on its own merit! Morality be damned.

With that being said, this depravity is what is being shown in CP2077 from the standpoint of Night City. In a way, there is a direct relationship between the moral depravity of society and the blatant objectification and sexualization of women. In other words, there is no morality in Night City. I totally get OP's point, but in a way, Cyber Punk is showing sexualization of women is a bad thing because it will lead to this nightmare dystopia.

 

[Deleted member 13101]

It's telling that only Spielberg has the forethought to portray personalized ads in a dystopia (I don't know if it's already present in Phil K Dick's original story). Imagine in 2077 you're a male character dating numerous other men, and you get different set of ads compared to your other character, a female who's not interested in sexuality at all. That's Cyberpunk AF, and it's weird that the marketing executives in CP 2077 world are still thinking conventionally.

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I'm curious to see, even with all the focus on world-setting and factions and such, just how conventional this game ends up being - and how many will gladly accept it as such because of the conventional lens used to examine an unconventional setting.

 

[peppersky]

Some of the responses in this thread are just plain creepy and offputting.

I think my issue with this (and the rest of the game in general) is that it's hard to say if the game is even trying to do the right thing by Cyberpunk as a genre, where it should be a reflection of society as it stands now. This sort of hyper-sexualization of women seems more like an exaggeration of advertising between the '80s and 2000's. While sexualized ads still exist today, obviously, they aren't as prevalent as when a lot of seminal pieces of cyberpunk media got their start. It'd be like if the game seriously tapped into those same '80s anxieties of Japan tech companies essentially dominating the world. It's cheesy and outdated.

If they want to show that society has regressed, sure, that could be pretty cool and poignant given how society in general seems to be making numerous strides backwards in 2020. But the proof will be in the pudding. From what I've seen of the game it seems more focused on mimicking early cyberpunk media without actually saying anything. I'd love to be wrong, but I don't have much hope.

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Tbh that is something that almost all media is guilty of. 80s revival has been going on for like 20 years now and shows no sign of stopping. It's just become basically impossible to visualize any sort of future from where we are now, so retrofuturism is all that we've got left.

Although even disregarding that, CDPR has shown some reactionary tendencies, so I'm not confident that they'll have anything interesting to say anyway.

 

[Dmax3901]

It's cyberpunk, capitalism loves selling bodies. It makes perfect sense

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It's a world drown in capitalism and it's also screwed up in any kind of ethic/moral. It may be saturated, but it fits the scene...
Also, this game is probably PEGI 18, right?

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Can only assume y'all read the thread title then immediately clicked reply. The discussion has gone beyond your points.

In vacuum and by themselves these hypersexualized ads are very exploitative and morally corrupt, but I imagine that is the intention. To be offensive and loud with it. If game doesn't do anything meaningful with this and just has hypersexualized content to have it without commentary on why that direction for society is harmful then that is very condemnable. Same time I do have some faith that game will go into it at deeper level, e.g. game has gang called Moxex. They are group of independent and organized sex workers who broke free from gang and corporation who basically owned them before, now looking after each other and still oppressed sex workers.

Hypersexualized society and group like Moxes... how they couldn't engage at deeper level than just have these ads as window dressing?

I'm giving CDPR benefit of doubt until I play the game, but not giving them one is also more than understandable with their social media team being toxic and immature without signs of improvement.

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I appreciate this fair and measured response from someone who is clearly looking forward to the game (not sarcasm).

 

[Cerulean_skylark]

Just something I have noticed here and there in many 77 threads. People project their perception of cyberpunk to this game while this game has always been just continuation of CyberPunk IP that is very different than e.g. BladeRunner take on cyberpunk.

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Can only assume y'all read the thread title then immediately clicked reply. The discussion has gone beyond your points.

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" What, if anything, are CD Projekt Red trying to do here? If it's to reflect our own world they've failed because even 2020 advertising manages to be more diverse than this. Is it to depict a future where women are still sexualised to a far higher degree than men? If so, why? "

I was responding to this question you asked in your OP. I think capitalism as it is NOW sells bodies, it's clearly even worse taken to a comical extreme.

I mean i doubt they're trying to say anything. I think they do it without thinking too much except "this is what an insane society is like".
I'm just all around indifferent to the massive amount of "thinkpiece" writing being done about something we don't have access to yet. I mean, i get we can make judgements about what has been shown so far. But i'm generally waiting to see the whole thing.

 

[rras1994]

" What, if anything, are CD Projekt Red trying to do here? If it's to reflect our own world they've failed because even 2020 advertising manages to be more diverse than this. Is it to depict a future where women are still sexualised to a far higher degree than men? If so, why? "

I was responding to this question you asked in your OP. I think capitalism as it is NOW sells bodies, it's clearly even worse taken to a comical extreme.

I mean i doubt they're trying to say anything. I think they do it without thinking too much except "this is what an insane society is like".
I'm just all around indifferent to the massive amount of "thinkpiece" writing being done about something we don't have access to yet.

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But CDPR are part of the capitalism that's selling sexualisation, it's how they've done their own ads for this very game, it's not really a commentary if they are themselves using the same devices and have a long history of doing so

 

[Dmax3901]

" What, if anything, are CD Projekt Red trying to do here? If it's to reflect our own world they've failed because even 2020 advertising manages to be more diverse than this. Is it to depict a future where women are still sexualised to a far higher degree than men? If so, why? "

I was responding to this question you asked in your OP. I think capitalism as it is NOW sells bodies, it's clearly even worse taken to a comical extreme.

I mean i doubt they're trying to say anything. I think they do it without thinking too much except "this is what an insane society is like".
I'm just all around indifferent to the massive amount of "thinkpiece" writing being done about something we don't have access to yet. I mean, i get we can make judgements about what has been shown so far. But i'm generally waiting to see the whole thing.

Click to shrink...

Fair enough. I'm absolutely not about to write a thinkpiece and don't really think making this thread counts as such. I am very curious to see how all this stuff is handled in the game itself, and I'm also fascinated by how things are marketed (movies too). The trailers for this game in the last few months have just utterly failed to excite me, and I think the seemingly juvenile, hetero-normative, 'sex-sells' vibe that permeates so much of this marketing campaign is a big part of it.

 

[Cerulean_skylark]

Fair enough. I'm absolutely not about to write a thinkpiece and don't really think making this thread counts as such. I am very curious to see how all this stuff is handled in the game itself, and I'm also fascinated by how things are marketed (movies too). The trailers for this game in the last few months have just utterly failed to excite me, and I think the seemingly juvenile, hetero-normative, 'sex-sells' vibe that permeates so much of this marketing campaign is a big part of it.

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They've leaned way too hard on the GTA esque fancy world and combat stuff. I really want to see more... RPG and less sizzle

But CDPR are part of the capitalism that's selling sexualisation, it's how they've done their own ads for this very game, it's not really a commentary if they are themselves using the same devices and have a long history of doing so

Click to shrink...

Again, i am waiting for the actual product. We can certainly say that about their trailers so far for sure. They had a similar problem though where witcher 3 ads showed like half the sexy scenes.

 

[Deleted member 17184]

To help people understand why some folx aren't giving CDPR the benefit of the doubt:

- The Witcher 1 had the player collecting sex cards for each woman Geralt had sex with;

- The Witcher 2 had a digital edition of Playboy featuring Triss;

- The Witcher 3 had a very juvenile portrayal of sex in some cutscenes;

- The Witcher (as a series) lacked PoC characters until Hearts of Stone;

- Twitter managers for both the GOG and Cyberpunk 2077 accounts have made transphobic and sexist jokes in the past. Even if GOG is a separate division, both that and CDPR are owned by CD Projekt;

- Cyberpunk 2077 does not allow the player to use they/them pronouns and the type of voice is directly related to V being male or female;

As far as these topics go, they haven't shown much to make folx trust them.

 

[Mirado]

I guess you could look at this in two ways: from the perspective of the source material and from the perspective of the developer. For the former, I trust Mike Pondsmith and I more or less agreed and enjoyed his take on a cyberpunk setting, rampant sexualization included, because I felt it fit in with his vision of corporations run amok. Sex sells, so what do you get if you take that to a logical extreme? Something like this, I guess. Now, I did have some problems with the way he chose to dress certain characters (or at least with how their artwork interpreted that), in particular having Art Cunningham, one of the setting's best hackers, dressed in what you'd charitably call a leotard and more accurately call lingerie (warning: link to her Cyberpunk wiki page with NSFW-ish art). But that's more of a problem with the general sexualization of women in media rather than the specific example of this artwork being out of line with the universe it is in, which I don't think is the case this time.

As for whether or not CDPR should be trusted to handle such themes and imagery with any sort of nuance or do anything with it beyond "hey look, sexy ladies", while I will reserve judgement until I get to play the game (as I feel they have a much closer relationship with the setting's creator this time, and who will hopefully have some say in curbing their worst impulses), I absolutely think people have the right to be skeptical given their track record. While I feel like the Witcher 3 was a step up over the first two games in regard to cutting down on the amount of ridiculous gratuitous nudity, it was still present to some degree (even if better integrated vs literal naked trading cards) and given the sexist and transphobic shit their PR team has barfed out over the last few years, I understand people not willing to give them a chance to prove them wrong.

 

[Drelkag]

I'd lose faith in humanity if I saw that in person but it's pretty on brand for Cyberpunk.

 

[foxuzamaki]

Uh, this seems pretty on brand for a game set in a dystopian future, hypersexualization is often apart of it, ofcourse we will have to play the game to see if it delivers on actually critiquing these things. But from the info we do have it makes sense inn the setting.

 

[fleet]

it's so fucking annoying how sexism gets a "free pass" in fictive media because "that's just how it is/was/will be!"

we don't say that shit about any other form of discrimination. we wouldn't be tolerating a cyberpunk game with blatant and rampant anti-black racism purposely written into the game because "that's just how cyberpunk is". but because it's women, the conversation is now "yeah it sucks but what you gonna do. day 1 boiz".

this game is written as the ultimate het male fantasy. but apparently that's now subversive and critical of the genre because.....they have a poster of a man too, see!!!1

 

[fleet]

The sheer number of surface-level takes in this thread is kind of astonishing.

But then, I expect it at this point. People still don't respect women, even here. I don't even have much else to say about it because, really, when it's all boiled down, it's really that simple. Thanks a lot for reminding me how little I, and people like myself, matter to the general populace.

I'm so very tired.

Click to shrink...

this lol

you should be excited to be reduced to a sexist trope, honey! they're definitely going to explore this with the tact and insight needed to genuinely critique gender discrimination. you just don't get it, the poster with a lady with three mouths is SUBVERSIVE because it's actually a dystopia :) maybe you just don't understand how storytelling works. here let me tell you why the women in this world LIKE wearing stripper costumes (it's actually very feminist)

 

[purseowner]

[post]

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This is one of the most thoughtful and well-argued posts I've seen on this site.

I think your Waller-Bridge on Bond comparison is a good one. If cyberpunk as a genre presents problematic realities and visions of the future, it doesn't mean it has to present it or artistically explore it in such a way that the work itself becomes problematic.

(I love that Fleabag quote so much)

 

[MrMysterio]

this lol

you should be excited to be reduced to a sexist trope, honey! they're definitely going to explore this with the tact and insight needed to genuinely critique gender discrimination. you just don't get it, the poster with a lady with three mouths is SUBVERSIVE because it's actually a dystopia :) maybe you just don't understand how storytelling works. here let me tell you why the women in this world LIKE wearing stripper costumes (it's actually very feminist)

Click to shrink...

This thread really shows the lack of even attempting to switch perspectives.

Even after the lock people waltz in saying "sex sells" and "hypersexualisation" without wanting to see that it's a SPECIFIC kind of sex they are peddling, a SPECIFIC hypersexualisation, omitting anyone from sexual expression who isn't in the neat box of 20th century male heteronormity.

This in combination with Cyberpunk being the biggest cultural release of 2020 in (probably) any kind of medium is just a testament of how much their kind of fantasies (incl. dystopias) are just joyless repetitions of fake satire, juvenile hot takes and 20th century power fantasies.

 

[Razmos]

it's so fucking annoying how sexism gets a "free pass" in fictive media because "that's just how it is/was/will be!"

we don't say that shit about any other form of discrimination. we wouldn't be tolerating a cyberpunk game with blatant and rampant anti-black racism purposely written into the game because "that's just how cyberpunk is". but because it's women, the conversation is now "yeah it sucks but what you gonna do. day 1 boiz".

this game is written as the ultimate het male fantasy. but apparently that's now subversive and critical of the genre because.....they have a poster of a man too, see!!!1

Click to shrink...

100% this, well said.
People treating this game like its going to be some subversive masterpiece and that the issues are just part of the charm and setting lol
just seems like a free pass to excuse any old shit

 

[Kyuuji]

This is one of the most thoughtful and well-argued posts I've seen on this site.

Click to shrink...

Really? I thought the Cuties comparison was off-base personally.

We have a film that garnered controversy post-release and post-award reception because of a marketing poster. A film fully centred around exploring the issue of chasing womanhood and popularity as a young girl in the modern age, and the dangers and mental toll it can inflict. A film that was heavily co-opted by the alt-right to accuse a Black Muslim filmmaker of being a pedophile. A woman who has - at length - explained the nuance and complexity behind her film and for which every effort was taken to ensure the safety of those involved. Someone who is praised for her time working with children and who's directly representing her experience of growing up as a young girl torn between Western freedoms and the borders of orthodox religion.

Somehow this is comparable to a game where it's far from clear whether some of the issues (like trans representation) have any central focus in the narrative. For which the developers have pandered to and actively courted the alt-right demographic on social media, all while simultaneously ignoring any request for a deeper insight into how they're handling these themes with nuance. Where the controversy for the poster is founded on a history of transphobic output by the authors, who have long-since seemed to have an active disdain for those they're content to draw caricatures of and exploit. A company that willingly courts diversity and inclusivity as a promotion tool at the direct exclusion of trans people in the creator.

Not seeing the real equivalence there.

 

[The Curry Witch]

Well people have brought up the "you're not supposed to like it" argument and others have countered it with valid arguments. But honestly, put me in that first camp as well. At the same time, I can clearly see why people have zero trust for CDPR to actually handle all of this well. In the end, I will have to wait and see what the commentary of Cyberpunk will be - or if there even is one.

If these ads are part of the depiction of a society that you can choose to work against in one of your player paths then I'm for it. Like the Moxies (or whatever they are called) could have a mission for you to tear down certain ads because they feel sex-workers are mistreated and certain marketing messages are part of that - or whatever I'm just making this up as I go obviously. Cyberpunk is supposed to show you an ugly dystopia, but as a videogame, it should also let you do something with it.

Now if all this imagery just exists to be EDGY AND HYPER SEXUALIZED LOOK AT THIS MAH DUDERS then it entirely misses the point of a good cyberpunk narrative. If the world-building ends there then it's better to just have boring deodorant ads.

 

[fleet]

Well people have brought up the "you're not supposed to like it" argument and others have countered it with valid arguments. But honestly, put me in that first camp as well. At the same time, I can clearly see why people have zero trust for CDPR to actually handle all of this well. In the end, I will have to wait and see what the commentary of Cyberpunk will be - or if there even is one.

If these ads are part of the depiction of a society that you can choose to work against in one of your player paths then I'm for it. Like the Moxies (or whatever they are called) could have a mission for you to tear down certain ads because they feel sex-workers are mistreated and certain marketing messages are part of that - or whatever I'm just making this up as I go obviously. Cyberpunk is supposed to show you an ugly dystopia, but as a videogame, it should also let you do something with it.

Now if all this imagery just exists to be EDGY AND HYPER SEXUALIZED LOOK AT THIS MAH DUDERS then it entirely misses the point of a good cyberpunk narrative. If the world-building ends there then it's better to just have boring deodorant ads.

Click to shrink...

here's the thing: as a woman, reality (as in, right now at this very second) can be fucking dystopic. having an ad for something completely innocuous be uncomfortably sexualised is a REALITY. violence against sex workers is a REALITY. being groomed into a stereotype for the male gaze is a REALITY.

cyberpunk therefore isn't "a horrifying glimpse into what could be!" more than it is a slightly overcooked reflection of the female experience as it is, right now. so unless the game is about to perform some epic takedown on how the (predominantly white, male) audience is complicit in this vision? then it's just exploitation in the guise of "wokeness".