Do you think...y'all really want to keep defending the blatantly transphobic "mix it up" ad?
Oh I TOTALLY doubt they consulted sex workers. But that would be nice.I...would really like to know if CDPR's team of consultants included sex workers. Or how much of the writing team is composed of women.
So... I guess what I would ask from people in this thread is to go beyond "this is Cyberpunk not sure what you expected". I am not American, I am not puritanical. I'm also not 'offended' like so many people have suggested. The content of the ads on their own doesn't disgust me.
This game does not exist in a vacuum. Its developed by a studio with a history of sexualising/objectifying women and of catering to the worst kind of gamers. There's a reason this game is being held up as the second coming of Christ by certain folk and there's a reason that ANY kind of criticism of this game is met with such ferocious, blind resistance on this forum and elsewhere.
I also don't think criticising a game's marketing prior to actually playing it should be dismissed automatically. I'm not crying for the game to be censored or banned and there's plenty of posts in this thread that suggest that a worthwhile, respectful discussion can be had. Don't take it personally when people criticise something you're looking forward to.
I'm also not saying everyone who disagrees with the premise of this thread is wrong, people rightfully brought up that there is one ad featuring two nude men in the trailers in question as well as other ads found in other marketing materials. I didn't omit mentioning these in the OP by choice (I included the screencap after all) I simply thought it was one example among many that don't feature men. It's there, sure, but it's anything but equivalent.
I'm not going to waste any energy responding to people who say "but what about the ultraviolence".
They literally have a photo of the diversity on their team at the studio.I...would really like to know if CDPR's team of consultants included sex workers. Or how much of the writing team is composed of women.
They literally have a photo of the diversity on their team at the studio.
That response has been broken apart for the bullshit it is already but beyond that they used this poster and cans of the drink in offline promo events. So the idea that it's some low-key commentary that's supposed to make everyone angry seems unlikely, in favour of a cheap "look, chick with an erection!" gag that echoes the character creator in plugging diversity and depth as a promo tool while doing everything at the expense of it.Before posting here, I tried to do some research to see if I could find any dev commenting on these. I found an interview from Polygon with Kasia Redesiuk, one of the art directors of the game, and responsible for all ads (or at least her team, it's not clear). It's about that "Mix It Up" ad. You can see it here.
The thing for me is... even if the intention is to show something horrible that you're fighting against, the presentation of it is different. The whole marketing, and also some of the developer highlights focus more on the "cool fantasy" of it. This video specifically shows this well. I get it is trying to attract a specific audience (it's easy to see which one it is), going from the edgy tone of the presenter to how he says, "living your Terminator fantasy" to exemplify one of the playstyles. Even if the art director is well-intended, there's a huge conflict: the presentation focuses on the "cool edgy future" and the ads are trying to focus on what Cyberpunk was actually intended to be like.
Frankly, I would be surprised if the game doesn't really focus on what we're seeing. If they want to show how horrible this world is, why are we seeing it as something "cool"?
Yeah, this is why I said I'd be surprised if the game actually had the depth the franchise promises. Everything so far makes it look like it's supposed to be "cool and edgy."This response has been broken apart for the bullshit it is already but beyond that they used this poster and cans of the drink in offline promo events. So the idea that it's some low-key commentary that's supposed to make everyone angry seems unlikely in favour of a cheap "look, chick with an erection!" gag that echoes the character creator in plugging diversity and depth as a promo tool, while doing everything at the expense of it.
You've already played through the game and know this?Fuck this game. Great work compiling all this, OP.
There's nothing clever about the imagery they're using here - yes, overt sexualisation in advertising and worldbuilding has long been a thing in cyberpunk fiction, but usually it serves some sort of purpose or feeds in to the political intent or themes of the work. Here it's just 'edgy' for edgy's sake.
It's not the fact that is exists in the game at all but rather that it's so skewed towards sexualising women. Both the ads and the footage in the trailers themselves are clearly catering to the straight male gaze.It's part of the universe. If movies, shows, and books can have it why can a game suddenly not have it? It's part of the universe. It's not a perfect world.
A good post about how a lot of recent cyberpunk (like altered carbon and maybe cyberpunk 2077) has stopped using the themes of cyberpunk for a purpose and started using it as a cool window dressing... Missing the whole point.
I hope Cyberpunk 2077 is different.
Depiction of 80's vision "Sex sells" in 2077. So societal progression and regression all mixed in the hyper-capitalistic dystopia.
Basically this. I'm expecting to find a lot of disgusting stuff on this game including, but not limited to: commoditization of human life; modern day slavery in some fashion; absolutely degraded work relations/conditions and the hyper-sexualization the OP brought up. I'm also hopeful these elements will have direct implications on the game's main cast and side characters.How do you know that? Do you know how the entire story plays out?
Look I'm not saying it's right to oversexualize anything, but to say it's "edgy for edgys sake", without even playing the game or knowing how the story plays out is premature.
This reminds me about the 2 leads in altered carbon season 1 being asked about the nude scenes, the guy was swedish and the woman was mexican and they both said their counties were much more relaxed about nakedness so im wondering if the people hung up on this are from more uptight countries?
Not having played cp2077 yet there was an interview with a producer from altered carbon where she explained their reasons and it would apply to cp2077 aswell. You may still not agree with the reasons or logic, but if your doing something like a story in a setting where your body is almost as replaceable as your car it kinda makes sense.
Altered Carbon's Showrunner Talks The Show's High Nudity Quotient
Altered Carbon is a show that is obsessed with nipples. There are nipples, and butts, and general displays of nudity, absolutely everywhere, from the pilot on. According to showrunner, writer, and executive producer Laeta Kalogridis, that’s done for intentional effect. Talking to Gamespot a...www.gizmodo.com.au
Talking to Gamespot a couple days ago, she said, "Our worst instincts as human beings have to do with our carelessness with natural resources, and when the body itself becomes just one more of those resources, how will we treat it? Will we treat it with such indifference and with such depersonalization that it becomes more like a very fancy car than a repository of the self?"
This, she explained, is the reason for the show's nudity: it illustrates the frivolousness of the future's bodies. "And that, I think, is one reason that the nudity itself is not gratuitous; it's meant to reinforce to you, as a viewer, that the advent of this technology fundamentally and substantially changes people's relationships with their idea of their own body," Kalogridis said."
This thread is...messy and I feel that OP's post needs to be updated to reflect what happened later in this thread to prevent further drive-by's and misunderstandings. Just a suggestion though.
If that's the point they're trying to make, then someone needs to buy them a mirror because they've been using the same kind of imagery in their own ads."It's cyberpunk, deal with it" is such a weird response. If the point they're trying to make with these examples of the advertising is "wow shit in the future is bad dude", then that's not remotely interesting and I'd question why they're making a cyberpunk game at all if they're going with such an entry-level take on the genre. It's been done a thousand times before.
Yeah, and even in just the two trailers I mentioned in the OP there's several very focused and deliberate shots of women dancing. I'm sure there will be male strippers in the game but they're all but absent in the marketing of the game itself.If that's the point they're trying to make, then someone needs to buy them a mirror because they've been using the same kind of imagery in their own ads.
Honestly, most of the in-game ads seem kinda tame when you remember that this game was announced with a CG teaser of lingering shot of a sexy cyborg being executed by a shot to the back of her head.
maybe i'm misreading in the op but it feels like you phrased it as a very open ended question of "why do these ads exist in the game?".
cyberpunk is rarely about attempting accurate futurism. cyberpunk 2077 even less so. a lot of the tech they show in the game is seemingly less elegant that current solutions because they're going for a retro cyberpunk vibe. similarly to blade runner 2049The idea that we'd still be questioning gender and shit by the time we're thinking about trans-humanism was always funny. Cyberpunk didn't have much foresight. "What if 2080 was exactly the same as the 80s?"
The setting for this game is born from a country that has giant corporate chains of establishments best referred to as "breastaurants." I honestly can't believe this is a question you would ask.I get it's not a perfect world, but it's presented as a world that is far more 'free' than ours, people can run amok with high tech weapons, alter their bodies to the point where they're barely human and megacorps run everything, and yet they're still mostly making ads for horny boys?
maybe i'm misreading in the op but it feels like you phrased it as a very open ended question of "why do these ads exist in the game".
the reasons are certainly open to criticism but i feel like you asked for the reasons. if you wanted to discuss the merit of the ads despite the likely reasons i would have phrased the op as something like "i think the hypersexualied ads in cyberpunk 2077 are indefensible despite being a trope of the genre, and here's why".
What, if anything, are CD Projekt Red trying to do here? If it's to reflect our own world they've failed because even 2020 advertising manages to be more diverse than this. Is it to depict a future where women are still sexualised to a far higher degree than men? If so, why? We know our current world is homophobic, transphobic and sexist, do they really think ads like this are cutting satire, or nuanced critique?
So... I guess what I would ask from people in this thread is to go beyond "this is Cyberpunk not sure what you expected". I am not American, I am not puritanical. I'm also not 'offended' like so many people have suggested. The content of the ads on their own doesn't disgust me.
This game does not exist in a vacuum. Its developed by a studio with a history of sexualising/objectifying women and of catering to the worst kind of gamers. There's a reason this game is being held up as the second coming of Christ by certain folk and there's a reason that ANY kind of criticism of this game is met with such ferocious, blind resistance on this forum and elsewhere.
I also don't think criticising a game's marketing prior to actually playing it should be dismissed automatically. I'm not crying for the game to be censored or banned and there's plenty of posts in this thread that suggest that a worthwhile, respectful discussion can be had. Don't take it personally when people criticise something you're looking forward to.
I'm also not saying everyone who disagrees with the premise of this thread is wrong, people rightfully brought up that there is one ad featuring two nude men in the trailers in question as well as other ads found in other marketing materials. I didn't omit mentioning these in the OP by choice (I included the screencap after all) I simply thought it was one example among many that don't feature men. It's there, sure, but it's anything but equivalent.
I'm not going to waste any energy responding to people who say "but what about the ultraviolence".
You're supposed to be offended. They're supposed to be offensive to you. The point is society has been so fucked up that they're not offensive in the future. The world of cyberpunk is not good.
Then if this is specifically about cdprs history then I still find it worthwhile to consider that these type of ads seem to originate from the table top game