Huawei does more than handsets. Ugh.
It's so strange how you're so focused on this changing China's government. You clearly did not understand why I listed all of China's horrific actions towards its citizens.
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Huawei reportedly stops smartphone production
- Thread starter OtherWorldly
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It's so strange how you're so focused on this changing China's government. You clearly did not understand why I listed all of China's horrific actions towards its citizens.
Guaranteed the United States will make an emerging India a problem. Don't think the current trade war and Huawei ban is anywhere near because the United States suddenly cares about the abhorrent Chinese practices towards minorities, privacy, corporate theft, and the like. They only care about staying on top, and to think otherwise is delusional.
Not a fan of Trump at all but he is doing good work here. This company has stolen so much tech and China itself is flexing it's muscle where it doesn't belong (south china sea). Someone needs to put them in their place
You don't think US and other countries don't worry about a China that has access and built a lot of 5g networks? Hmm...
because 99% of the people on this forum are simply to young to remember how the US did the exact same things to Japan and Korea, but that was the 1980s. Erie how similar the arguments are tbh. Back than, there was no evil government pulling the strings, Japanese companies just were constructed as part of one giant government-run business, usually referred to as Japan Inc.
The US isn't attacking Taiwan, Thailand or others in the same way yet, because they are no threat to their leadership.
I'm sorry to say but you are falling for the same morals-trap like many others here. This isn't a fight between the righteous US defending against the evil empire of China, this is a hegemon defending its economic position. And you (and others) are completely buying into the most blatant propaganda I've seen in a long time.
I'm fairly certain that there are way more serious restriction on actual critical telecommunication infrastructure than "anything that isn't banned in the US", ugh.
You keep shifting your argument, is it about security or is it because China is bad?
And if it's the latter, how is that supposed to make China not bad?
Because the US and China severing their business ties is gonna have pretty serious impact on many people's lives, and I would hope that if we go down that route we're doing it for something slightly more concrete than making a point.
User Warned: Drive-by post of inflammatory generalizations
Americans are so self entitled nationalist buffs that even the left leaning Americans are right wingers compared to the rest of the world.
Fuck the Chinese ruling party, but pls Americans stop pretending you are not nationalist pricks.
Fuck the Chinese ruling party, but pls Americans stop pretending you are not nationalist pricks.
I haven't shifted my argument. You cannot make that claim. If you want to make that claim then quote and show the differences between my argument.
But, I can see you don't really care about how China treats its citizens and how they would use force against other countries if they could.
But I'll yield: hail China. I'm sorry, China, you guys don't deserve to be hit. I was wrong, keep up the good fight.
Maybe instead of making sarcastic posts you could try to better explain yourself, because again, I am still unclear how banning huawei is supposed to help the Chinese people who are being treated terribly by their government.
And I'm really not sure what the US critical infrastructure has to do with any of this.
These seem to be two separate argument, and I struggle to understand your exact position on either.
Outside of course that you really really don't like the Chinese government, which is fair and all, but I'm kinda uncertain what do you suggest we do about that.
Now address the Canadians.
Unfiltered drivel is what it is.
This is exactly what I meant. The US will try to pull the same shit with India decades from now.
But it's telling no one has a response to this.
No we are talking about China now. I am curious who those stans are of Xi Jinping? Why be so vague?
You did seem to be taking note of such names. It is not helpful to the discussion. Unless you confront them directly.
Likely, but the image hit alone will likely be devastating for a long time.
I think the issue here partly stems from those who are pro-Huawei believing that those who are anti-Huawei are anti-Huawei for the same reasons that the US government is anti-Huawei. I don't believe most of us are.
The US government could come out and say they want to ban Huawei because it's run by militant leprechauns, and I would still applaud the ban.
Not because I support the US government's reasoning. It's because I'm against a company with known ties to a brutal Chinese government (the company was founded and is run by a member of the CCP for fucks sake).
Anything, no matter how deluded or agenda-driven, that weakens the power of the Chinese government is a good thing.
And you can take your "yeah because the US government is perfect" posts and shove 'em. The US government is far from perfect. But compared to China? They're Shangri-La.
The US government could come out and say they want to ban Huawei because it's run by militant leprechauns, and I would still applaud the ban.
Not because I support the US government's reasoning. It's because I'm against a company with known ties to a brutal Chinese government (the company was founded and is run by a member of the CCP for fucks sake).
Anything, no matter how deluded or agenda-driven, that weakens the power of the Chinese government is a good thing.
And you can take your "yeah because the US government is perfect" posts and shove 'em. The US government is far from perfect. But compared to China? They're Shangri-La.
Imagine being ignorant and thinking they aren't. U.S.A has fucked countries beyond recognition and those countries are still trying to figure how to get the fuck out of that mess.
So dont come here and say they are not at the same level of bullshit.
The American government won't stop with Huawei. It's just the beginning. And it's not just China. India, México, the EU, who could be next?
And from someone who has had relatives tortured and murdered thanks to the US, (Argentina) I disagree. The US has done far more for authoritarianism in the world than China has, and it doesn't look like China will catch up any time soon.
I don't have a crystal ball, and I don't deal in future possibilities.
We're talking about China. Modern day China.
Isn't that what you are doing with the spying accusations and there connection to ccp? Or do you not underscribe the idea of spying? And tell me what Huawei have done with there connection to ccp?
If you know of a way to gain access to the government secrets of one of the most secretive regimes on the planet, I'm all ears.
I'm basing my decisions on what we know. We know Huawei has a history of stealing intellectual property. Which makes them a shitty company. We know the company has strong links to the brutal Chinese government via their president and founder (among others). Which makes them a shitty company.
I do my best to not support shitty companies. I don't eat at Chick-fil-A. I don't eat Papa John's Pizza. I don't buy from Huawei. Anything negative that happens to any of these companies is a plus in my book.
When you're putting your hate of one person over the lives of others you need to re-examine yourself. FFS...
I hope that came out wrong and you don't mean that Tiananmen square was itself actual demonization, because hoo boy. But fair enough, I didn't know that it was only based on domestic legislation, though I think the Iran case was still brought up to drag allies into it if America's own barriers proved ineffective enough. In any case it's the same difference. We all know they're just looking for a stick to beat the other with, doesn't mean the stick is the actual reason, which in this case I think you agree it isn't.
It could be me, but I don't see many people buy into the actual propaganda. Unless you mean the CCP is not building a technological dystopia to harass minorities and dissidents, in which case, it's rich to start talking about propaganda. As for the security threat and Iran link (not related to 5G), I think most people see it for what it is.
For me as a European this is a fight between turd sandwich and giant douche. Or in other words, let them fight (even if my own stocks are doing poor). But you can recognize the US is a turd sandwich, and also think their grievances regarding stolen IP and discriminatory trade barriers are legit.
Now you say that you don't have access to such information. So it is you now that is speaking in hypotheticals. I don't know but is Huawei ever been found guilty of stealing ,in a court? So if I understand, you never buy items made in China? And no components either? Then I congratulate you and you can go and do the same to other shitty countries (government). That must not be easy to do I think.
(Theoretically) Letting people die of cancer to own the repubs.
Horseshoe all over.
So I guess the Opium Wars were justified huh?
You're really bending over backwards to defend Huawei here.
The things I mentioned being hypothetical are the spying aspects. We know about the IP theft. They've been caught numerous times. This isn't a point that can be argued unless you're being intellectually dishonest. Same with their links to the Chinese government.
As for my buying habits, reread my post. I do my best to avoid shitty companies, but it's impossible to avoid it completely. Which means, yes, I don't knowingly buy items from China. If I own a product that has a component from China in it, there's not much I can do about that. But I do my best.
So we're going mid-19th century to defend modern China now?
Come on, this is not about 'IP theft", let's be honest about our positions here.
Is this about the fact that they're "stooge of the government"?
Because they're not really different than any Chinese company in that regard, and in fact, I can't see many regards that they all that unique outsize size and success.
Is the argument really that we should ban business with all Chinese companies?
And if not, what the fuck are we trying to achieve with this?
Good for you. Always stick to your values. No it really isn't about defending Huawei. It is the process that is completely wrong. In this world I would expect rules and not survival of the fittest. Because I know that one day you will be on the receiving end. And if that someone is worse then the US (which already is very very bad). Then you have made your own bed. And it will not be in the benefit of the world or it's people. And we won't have a war behind the scenes. We will have a real war or oppression. There really isn't a great idea about these actions. It is about bullying another superpower and use other countries as pawns to achieve what you want.
Get the fuck out of here with this shit.
You don't have to be a nationalist to understand Huawei is a terrible company that is part of the Chinese government. Many people see through the bullshit, not just Americans.
For me, IP theft does play a role in my dislike of Huawei.
As far as banning all business with Chinese companies, that would be ridiculous.
A Chinese shoe making company with ties to a brutal Chinese government would have infinitesimally less power and influence than a telecommunications company with links to a brutal Chinese government. Supporting the shoe company makes them richer. Supporting the tech company makes them even richer, more powerful, more knowledgeable, and gives them the ability to grow far beyond their already massive reach.
I don't feel comfortable supporting China's government in any way. But I'm especially uncomfortable supporting them by handing them society's technological backbone.
Edit: I should mention I'm not just talking about their phones. I'm talking about their 5G tech.
Sounds more like you don't know anything about the Opium Wars and therefore have no clue as to how the posts I quoted are related to my response to them. It's not a defense; it's an observation. But if makes you feel better, you can dismiss me as a CCP apologist looking to increase my social credit score.
Their core business was built in part on being a huge pillar in Nortel's death via IP theft and basically bugging upper management.
North America would have had our own telecom equipment provider had it not been for Huawei. Which BTW started out a Nortel reseller in China.
I have 0 sympathy for them. And it's odd that despite all the protestations of US making this political, pro-Hauwei posters often and routinely fall back in anticipaiton for the Chinese government's response, as if Huawei is, you know, is an arm of the Chinese government.
Odd.
And It would have been a Canadian telecoms manufacturer that had some real good shit in the works before they their throats slit by fucking Huawei. I had an Uncle up north who was middle management when that shit went down and He went deep into the bottle as that shit fell apart and only got himself cleaned up to work at Samsung in the last 3 years.
Wow. The fact they were putting microphones under the tables to record the CEO and journalists convo was really creepy. He then gets a random email correcting the ceo 😂
Tiananmen square was THE turning point in US-Chinese relationships. Reagan famously used to refer to China as the "so-called communist country". After the massacre, the administration couldn't completely ignore the atrocities anymore. Particularly the opposition saw their chance to instrumentalize human rights issues for their own agenda - which they certainly did. Kinda one of those rare cases where the means didn't justify the ends, and not exactly the most glorious chapter in democrats history.
That's the issue though. We're talking about an international trade conflict, which is about a lot of things, but certainly not about human rights or anything else that happens in China. The US administration doesn't care about that, at all. They are just exploiting scary images to receive a free pass from the population. It's a lot easier to sell some heroic fight against an oppressive regime than what's actually going on - that is, preserving the economic and technological leadership and rights to make as much money as possible of US businesses. You surely won't find many demanding a war over the latter.
do I really need to quote the official press release again? or do you accept my word that IP theft, espionage and other such claims were not mentioned once in the reasoning for why they have been banned?
You don't need to quote anything because I already addressed this.
I'll just quote myself:
We're strengthening ties with India, so how will that relationship turn around on us? They'll be our new manufacturing base and a regional counter to China. A lot of Indians even speak native English.
I didn't, if you look up my earlier post i always used "Trump".
But my fault for mistaking you, sorry for that.
So are you boycotting all Chinese products?
Hard to boycott, but I tend not to buy Chinese because I don't want to support an oppressive regime. I think anyone who is capable of doing so should.
That's going to require the help of Europe, as they're the main potential users of their networking.