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What is your impression of Carole Baskin?

  • She is a good person who was unfairly mischaracterized and works tirelessly for a great cause

    Votes: 45 3.3%
  • She may have a shady past but she does great work now

    Votes: 156 11.3%
  • She's as exploitative or not much better than the rest of the big cat owners

    Votes: 932 67.6%
  • She's better than the other cat owners, but she's not as innocent as she leads on

    Votes: 245 17.8%

  • Total voters
    1,378

DickGrayson

Alt Account
Member
Jan 30, 2020
941
shes no better than those guys if shes not returning these tigers to the wild. the end.

Sometimes you can't just rehabilitate captive animals and return them to the wild, it's more humane to let them live out their lives in a rescue environment. Big Cat Rescue is an amazing organization with a huge rescue enclosure system that doesn't treat the animals like they're in a zoo.
 

Lost Lemurian

Member
Nov 30, 2019
4,298
I think you're missing my point. Carole won the lawsuit, and instead of seeking the end of his zoo, she wanted money. That doesn't sound like someone looking to end private ownership of animals.
I still don't understand. Joe is on record saying he won't give up the zoo. I don't think Baskin had legal recourse to force him. It was a copyright lawsuit, he just couldn't use the branding anymore. Unless Baskin was specifically given that choice? I didn't watch the show, I'm familiar with the case from other sources, but perhaps I'm missing something.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,550
shes no better than those guys if shes not returning these tigers to the wild. the end.
Returning large animals to the wild after a lifetime of captivity at best extremely difficult and at worst impossible. They do not know how to hunt. They do not know the territory. They do not know the dangers other animals (Including other tigers) can present.
 

Chixdiggit

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,447
The guy with the missing legs and girl with a missing arm were the two most likable, decent people of the bunch.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,185
I thought the whole thing was that Joe put the zoo in Jeff's name so that it couldn't be seized to pay off Carole's lawsuit.
 

MagicHobo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,602
I think you're missing my point. Carole won the lawsuit, and instead of seeking the end of his zoo, she wanted money. That doesn't sound like someone looking to end private ownership of animals.
It's one legal case versus all the money and activism put elsewhere. You don't know the legal mechanisms involved, maybe it was the most effective way to bankrupt the zoo or easier to enforce or bring about the desired outcome. It came across to me that she was more about putting the strain on them. You don't know all the details that you could say this millionaire was just after a comparably small amount of money each month.
 

hombremalo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,959
Those tigers are inbred, you couldn't release them into the wild even if they were going to survive, that they wouldn't.
 

Nooblet

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,637
The zookeeper woman at the very end (in the last episode) says that in all this not one animal benefited from it. It was all about Joe clashing with Carole and vice versa with no real regards for the actual animals they were fighting about.
 

AliceAmber

Drive-in Mutant
Administrator
May 2, 2018
6,722
I'm now legitamately worried that someone will attempt to hurt one of the Big Cat Rescue because of this series. I'm not surprised she's gotten death threats. Horrific.
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,763
I don't know what she expected to happen....

I agree she takes huge advantage of her volunteers, especially with the money that she has at her fingertips. That's the most fucked up part about her. To say she is JUST as bad as Joe is too far. Joe is flatout breeding exotic animals for money.

The way they frame that whole thing as Carol being evil for stealing all of Joe's mom's money when really it was just another example of Joe being a manipulative psychopath sure is a thing.
They frame it as both Carole and Joe doing some bad shit. She went after his elderly parents that he exploited. And the end of that story in the episode is someone saying to the camera that Joe fucked his parents with what he did to them. Neither came out good there with how they framed it.
 

show me your skeleton

#1 Bugsnax Fan
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,637
skeleton land
it's really weird that they didn't clarify the difference between the type of place joe ran and the type of place she ran, unless that's common knowledge i'm unaware of.
also how the documentary basically agrees with joe's theory that carole killed her husband despite not showing joe in a positive light. like the documentary doesn't agree with any other aspect of joe's character. i guess it's far more exciting than what probably happened.
 

Heynongman!

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,935
I don't know what she expected to happen....

I agree she takes huge advantage of her volunteers, especially with the money that she has at her fingertips. That's the most fucked up part about her. To say she is JUST as bad as Joe is too far. Joe is flatout breeding exotic animals for money.
anyone that claims she's just as bad as Joe better have some conclusive evidence that she did in fact murder her husband. She sucks shit, but she ain't Joe Exotic.
 

El-Suave

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,831
She is a strange person, and I'm not commenting on the murder allegations, but if you tune those out you can't lump her in with the rest of those criminals.
 
Oct 27, 2017
8,706
Honestly, the more I think back on the show, the more I realize how unreliable and manipulative the filmmakers were. I mean, all of those slow motion shots and poses were pretty telling. That one agent woman with the arm folding and stare down shots just seem so hokey but they had the audacity of mocking the individuals for going into their own poses by showing them "trying to direct".
 

ken_matthews

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
838
People keep ignoring that the stories about Carole are largely told from the perspective of genuine criminals and abusers. The family stuff is shady, but anything said about the Big Cat Rescue is from the people whose abusive livelihood is threatened. Even the stuff about killing her husband comes from people with an angle who plotted to murder her or business associates of her likely criminal slumlord former husband. People keep repeating that she benefits from unpaid labor or that she runs a cult, but what she is doing isn't the same. There is probably a bit of cult of personality going on, but the actual operation is no different from other non-profits and they actually have genuine employees on top of the volunteers. The stuff about her being a hypocrite and power hungry are probably valid, but also based on words she said long ago. Her actions and activism and where she puts her money today speaks louder.


Well said. After seeing and reading people's reaction to this show, how so many don't see any real difference between her and the rest, I can't help but feel like we have a crisis of critical thinking in this world.
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,763
anyone that claims she's just as bad as Joe better have some conclusive evidence that she did in fact murder her husband. She sucks shit, but she ain't Joe Exotic.
And to be honest, I quit after episode 4. I told my wife I didn't have a care to see what shitty things happened to a piece of shit (Joe). It's just not interesting to me, and I honestly don't understand the hype of the show.

People keep ignoring that the stories about Carole are largely told from the perspective of genuine criminals and abusers. The family stuff is shady, but anything said about the Big Cat Rescue is from the people whose abusive livelihood is threatened. Even the stuff about killing her husband comes from people with an angle who plotted to murder her or business associates of her likely criminal slumlord former husband. People keep repeating that she benefits from unpaid labor or that she runs a cult, but what she is doing isn't the same. There is probably a bit of cult of personality going on, but the actual operation is no different from other non-profits and they actually have genuine employees on top of the volunteers. The stuff about her being a hypocrite and power hungry are probably valid, but also based on words she said long ago. Her actions and activism and where she puts her money today speaks louder.
Mrmmm....I mean.....Just as much as I can't condemn her for things we don't know for certain, I also can't call her probably-dead husband a criminal slumlord, and then take it a step further and even call his secretary a criminal associate in a way that everything she says I should toss away. The animal abusers talking about her killing her husband is not what made that story interesting or believable.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,665
I'm sure they did, look at all the people walking away from the doc with any semblance of thinking Joe is a good person. They fucked up by making a guy who would shoot tigers in the head to get room for more expensive ones seem like just kind of a kooky guy.
 

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,550
You can't just let a domesticated animal out into the wild and call it a day. It won't know how to survive and it will die. If you let your house-raised dog of 5-10 years loose it's not going to be hangin' and huntin' with a wolf pack come next weekend.
Just a note: Domesticated animals are different from wild animals that are raised or even bred in captivity. Domesticated animals are bred for usefulness to people over many, many, many generations.

The tiger situation would be more like if your dog was a wolf but you still raised it like a dog for 5-10 years. Doesn't matter if it's genetically a wolf, it still will have no idea how to act like a wolf.
 

Conciliator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,132
I've watched like 3-ish episodes of this...it's entertaining trash, but it is definitely true that the show is fundamentally not about animal abuse
 

Deleted member 11985

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,168
Edit: Sorry, I made a brash statement that I wish to take back. Please ignore this.
 
Last edited:

crimsonECHIDNA

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,454
Florida
The volunteering system for Big Cat Rescue is suspect as all hell, but anyone trying to equate that operation to the literally sex cult or Joe Exotic system of taking advantage of ex-cons and grooming young men....like c'mon now.
 

Kcoe27400

Member
Mar 14, 2018
932
The zookeeper woman at the very end (in the last episode) says that in all this not one animal benefited from it. It was all about Joe clashing with Carol and vice versa with no real regards for the actual animals they were fighting about.
The animals at big Cat Rescue benefit from this as they arent abused nor breed for sale. Carole aint perfect hell she probably sucks but shes a hell of alot better as a person and a big cat owner than the other abusive fucks in this series. Almost every other wild life conservationist out there agrees with what Carole is doing and defends Big Cat Rescue. And for this gross documentary to end on that note when they barely covered the actual animal abuse that occurred and instead glorified Joe and his stupid vendetta against Carole is the cherry on the cake. Most of the viewers dont care about the animals at all as evidenced by the poll on this thread. Joe is a monster Carole atleast helped the animals. They are not the same.
 

Heynongman!

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,935
Didn't Carole do a bunch of shady shit in the 90s too?

Carole used to breed bobcats and sell them. She's not clean in all this, but BCR is not some shady, for-profit zoo that a lot of folks seem to think it is. Carole herself I have a ton of problems with because of dealings with a family friend that runs another legitimate rescue/sanctuary - not open to the public, she seems to feel the need to be the only game in town. It's as if she has a bit of a god complex.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,052
I don't think the polls capture how I feel about Carol from the documentary. I think she's a shady person who justifies a lot of shady behavior by striving for, ultimately, a good goal. I think she's certainly a better person than any of the other cat owners in the program, for sure.

I feel bad for a few of Joe's employees/friends. The guy who looks like a hard rocker, The guy with the prosthetic legs, the person who had their arm bitten off, and his ex-lover with no teeth. I felt especially bad for the guy with the long hair because I think he got salvation in connecting with those big animals and taking care of them, and he seemed to care for them when Joe was feeding his vanity projects. That scene in the last episoe where the guy was totally smashed, I felt bad for him. But I was glad when he cleaned up in that other scene.
 

LanceX2

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,822
They did show some but I feel there's a lot more abuse that probably wasn't covered.

For example, cub petting is pretty bad, but if you just watch the show it doesn't show or say why.
it does. it shows they get sold or killed after they age out and creates a cycle of constant breeding
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,895
How the hell can you honestly say you know if she is a good or bad person based on 5 hours of Netflix?

She certainly doesn't come across well in the show. From what I saw it looked like she only paid her family and none of the other people who worked there despite spending a million to take Joe Dirt to court.

She came across as shady even without the allegations about her husband but I can't say that with certainty that she is evil or misunderstood.
 

Min

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,077
Sometimes you can't just rehabilitate captive animals and return them to the wild, it's more humane to let them live out their lives in a rescue environment. Big Cat Rescue is an amazing organization with a huge rescue enclosure system that doesn't treat the animals like they're in a zoo.

It also means the sanctuary has a limited capacity because tigers need so much square milage, so she can't just buy and rescue all 177+ of Joe Exotic's tigers that he kept crammed in cages like some people are suggesting she do.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
it does. it shows they get sold or killed after they age out and creates a cycle of constant breeding

Yeah, but the act of actually letting cubs be pet is pretty bad by all accounts.

It can include training them through cruel means to sit still or wearing them out so they can be passed around, not to mention the toll it takes on ripping a mother and child apart.

Stuff like that wasn't really brought up.
 

rrc1594

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,810
Joe and Doc are actual criminals that belong in prison. I have my beefs with how Carole runs her "non profit" organization with regards to employees/volunteers, but it ain't at that level, and the stuff with her husband seems like it was played up for drama by the film makers.

This is where I stand
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
*spreads out his hands in a rainbow above his head*

SEXISM
I guess so. It's astounding that could be like water off a duck's back for so many people. I really don't want to meet the type of person who delighted in those parts of the doc or that dumbass Carol-focused music video. That vitriol-soaked obsession was nothing but outputting to me.