-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
How Would You Split Final Fantasy VII Remake Into Multiple Parts? [VG24/7]
- Thread starter Koozek
- Start date
It doesn't matter. Episode is a correct term when referring to this project. Each game will be an episode of the full plot. Episode has the same meaning of part... In fact, it is jargon when referring to plots divided into multiple parts; each part is an episode.
Is that not true for the first 10 hours of the original?
Going from a dieselpunk nightmare city to beaches and Japanese villages was always jarring. I think it's a good way to make each part feel different.
I fucking despise the idea of "Part 1 Midgar"
Yeah, let's stretch a 4 hour segment into 40 hours, because that wont feel like it's full of filler at all, and it sure as shit wont kill any pacing that the game tries to set thereafter.
Yeah, let's stretch a 4 hour segment into 40 hours, because that wont feel like it's full of filler at all, and it sure as shit wont kill any pacing that the game tries to set thereafter.
Yeah, but you're making that first part disproportionately longer. In addition, I feel like escaping the city is more impactful if you actually get to explore the world as opposed to just seeing a "to be continued" screen.
Same goes for if they remade Final Fantasy IX. I don't want to spend 50 hours in Alexandria when I could be in Lindblum instead.
There was a (completely source-less, for the record) "leak" on the FFVIIRemake subreddit that said it was actually going to be split into two parts. From Midgar to the end of the first disk, and from there til the end.
While I don't believe the leak at all, that would be my ideal scenario. It's a good ending point and there's really no great way to split the game into three parts unless you expand Midgar like crazy and just end it there.
While I don't believe the leak at all, that would be my ideal scenario. It's a good ending point and there's really no great way to split the game into three parts unless you expand Midgar like crazy and just end it there.
I honestly can't see how you could set a full game in Midgar.
There'll be so much padding and fetch quests.
There'll be so much padding and fetch quests.
My version would probably be 3 eps. 1st ep would end after you know what in Forgotten City. 2nd ep would be just about everything after that. Then the last episode would be Northern Cave and the map would be completely open at this point letting you do w/e sidequests + Vincent/Zack flashback scenes.
Kinda similar to how the OG game was split up.
Kinda similar to how the OG game was split up.
If I had to split it up, it'd have to be five parts.
Episode 1 ends after Midgar
Episode 2 ends after Gold Saucer
Episode 3 ends after City of Ancients
Episode 4 ends after Underwater Reactor/Sub fight
and Episode 5 ends with credits.
And yes, they will actually be episodes because I'm not gonna fuck the original game's pacing just so I can sell each part as a full priced game.
Episode 1 ends after Midgar
Episode 2 ends after Gold Saucer
Episode 3 ends after City of Ancients
Episode 4 ends after Underwater Reactor/Sub fight
and Episode 5 ends with credits.
And yes, they will actually be episodes because I'm not gonna fuck the original game's pacing just so I can sell each part as a full priced game.
If you're splitting the original into three equal parts, it'd probably fall something like:
Midgar - Cosmo Canyon
Nibelheim - North Crater
Junon - North Crater
The game itself follows a five-act structure, though, same as most FFs.
Exposition: Midgar > Cargo Ship
Rising Action: Costa del Sol > Temple of the Ancients
Climax: Temple of the Ancients > North Crater
Falling Action: Junon > Midgar*
Denouement: North Crater
*(you might prefer to place the return to Midgar in the fifth act, with the botched attempt to destroy Meteor and appearance of Diamond Weapon acting as the end of the fourth)
Midgar - Cosmo Canyon
Nibelheim - North Crater
Junon - North Crater
The game itself follows a five-act structure, though, same as most FFs.
Exposition: Midgar > Cargo Ship
Rising Action: Costa del Sol > Temple of the Ancients
Climax: Temple of the Ancients > North Crater
Falling Action: Junon > Midgar*
Denouement: North Crater
*(you might prefer to place the return to Midgar in the fifth act, with the botched attempt to destroy Meteor and appearance of Diamond Weapon acting as the end of the fourth)
the only way i see it working is if things are so heavily re-written that you could play a single part and have a complete, fulfilling self contained story without the requirement to play the other parts for closure...the same way the mass effect trilogy worked basically. maybe have a few narrative threads that people can appreciated if they buy all the games, but don't rely on people buying them all to get the full story. again, like mass effect and how 1 was largely about Saren, 2 was largely about the Collectors, 3 was largely about the Reapers. they were part of a trilogy, but non of them ever felt like they ended on a "to be continued".
I'm starting to come to the conclusion of splitting the game into three parts seems to be the defacto approach, simply because the original game was split between three CDs. However, if the structure of the game is adhered to in terms of flow, it isn't very easy to split into three parts with decent story beats.
How about this as a structure?
1 - Midgar
2 - Finishes after Cosmo Canyon
3 - Finishes with Meteor Summoned
4 - Til the end of the game
It could even be split into five beats.
One of the major things to take into consideration is that the game is unlikely to have an open world/avatar system, so there will be a lot less padding in just "milling about".
How about this as a structure?
1 - Midgar
2 - Finishes after Cosmo Canyon
3 - Finishes with Meteor Summoned
4 - Til the end of the game
It could even be split into five beats.
One of the major things to take into consideration is that the game is unlikely to have an open world/avatar system, so there will be a lot less padding in just "milling about".
I'm pretty bummed that so many people seem to be advocating having the break at the end of the Forgotten City because I feel that, narrative-wise, it's a very very crappy place to end a game with. It happens during a lull when the party doesn't have a clear direction for their main quest and it ends with a boss that breaks the mood and seems to be there just because we need to have a boss fight after a dungeon. All in all - as an ending - it's a very anticlimactic segment with only "shocking cliffhanger!" going for it.
I think the end of the Temple of the Ancients (the hunt for Black Materia, only for Sephiroth to wrest it away) and the end of the Northern Crater (the revenge on Sephiroth, only for Cloud to go coo coo and missing, then all hell breaks loose) are both better places for a "low point" ending.
I think the end of the Temple of the Ancients (the hunt for Black Materia, only for Sephiroth to wrest it away) and the end of the Northern Crater (the revenge on Sephiroth, only for Cloud to go coo coo and missing, then all hell breaks loose) are both better places for a "low point" ending.
Last edited:
OP
OP
I prefer 2 parts, because the ending of part 1 with
would be awesome and really ends this game with a huge "oh no what comes next" or "wow can't wait to see the last part" just like the newest rumor.
To have 3 or even 4 parts would be too long and each part of it could sell less than the other parts.
So 2 parts of that remake is perfect.
The only question is, how far are they with part 1? And does it really come out end 2019/early 2020?
Aeriths death
To have 3 or even 4 parts would be too long and each part of it could sell less than the other parts.
So 2 parts of that remake is perfect.
The only question is, how far are they with part 1? And does it really come out end 2019/early 2020?
I'm torn on having the game end within Midgar. It works well from a narrative perspective, but for a single game, it may end up feeling a little bit like Final Fantasy XIII. Midgar is a dense urban landscape, and it's going to be more difficult to open it up, then it is to have the first continent provide that satisfying taste of freedom. Putting some distance between Junon and Kalm might work, but it would feel strange to end the game there. Even with a bit of a journey towards Kalm, and a somewhat exciting flashback sequence ... It may feel off to have the game end at the very first small town.
Then there's ending it on the boat after Junon, but I've never been convinced by "Jenova is plot important, therefore ending it with an exciting Jenova fight will be satisfying" arguments. It doesn't hold much plot significance other than "look, 'Sephiroth' is on the boat to the new continent too." They can try to make it exciting or dramatic, but that could end up just making the final product (after all games are released) uneven, and strange.
So maybe ending it in Midgar is better, but it doesn't seem like they have any really good options here. I agree that two parts would probably be the best, but it's probably not feasible, as other posters have pointed out. An uneven final product is probably unavoidable.
Then there's ending it on the boat after Junon, but I've never been convinced by "Jenova is plot important, therefore ending it with an exciting Jenova fight will be satisfying" arguments. It doesn't hold much plot significance other than "look, 'Sephiroth' is on the boat to the new continent too." They can try to make it exciting or dramatic, but that could end up just making the final product (after all games are released) uneven, and strange.
So maybe ending it in Midgar is better, but it doesn't seem like they have any really good options here. I agree that two parts would probably be the best, but it's probably not feasible, as other posters have pointed out. An uneven final product is probably unavoidable.
Yep this is exactly how I envisioned it for the same reasons. Narratively the game is in three acts. 1/ Midgar fighting Shinra, 2/ Sudden realisation that the narrative and game are bigger than expected and 3/ The world and the characters lives turned upside down.
I don't know, I think it's perfect. The party doesn't have a real clear vision of where to go, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad place to end the story. It's a time for the player to sit and reflect on their journey. The boss fight is a good place for the player to lash out in anger at what just happened. And it's not really a cliffhanger, is it? It's a sobering plot event. I like the idea of having the game end with Aerith's theme transitioning into the main theme of the game.
Northern Crater is more of a cliffhanger, but I'd rather have it at the beginning of part 2. There's a whole journey surrounding it, and it's a great place for substantial content in a future game.
If the first game ends after Midgar, the second should absolutely end with the ancient city.
Sounds distinctly like a version of what happened to the Hobbit, which was a disaster in terms of pacing and bloat.
I always felt like the game had excellent pacing, Midgar included.
I always felt like the game had excellent pacing, Midgar included.
Aesthetic-wise, I like that idea too, to be honest. My reservation is more about how there's an entire dungeon out of lull in direction, making it a very extended epilogue. If the Aerith thing happened right at the end of the Temple of the Ancients, I can more easily imagine it. But if we didn't change the plot progression at all, I think it makes more sense to have the Forgotten City be the opening of the last game instead, where you think the story would go a certain way, only for it to hard turn into a clear and tragic motivation.
We still don't even know how many games/parts/episodes this damn remake is going to be.
June can't come fast enough and I seriously hope we get some concrete info on gameplay, strutcture, pacing, and development plans for this series so these wild theories can stop.
June can't come fast enough and I seriously hope we get some concrete info on gameplay, strutcture, pacing, and development plans for this series so these wild theories can stop.
yet its 1/2 the fun!
If the story up to the party leaving Midgar is the first release, that doesn't mean the party can't leave Midgar to do other things over the course of a 50 hour adventure.
There's a lot of room to do other things to flesh out the world between the first bombing run and the second. Maybe AVALANCHE needs to do some prep before their attempt on the Sector 5 reactor. Key codes from a information broker in Fort Condor who only accepts payment in GP?
Maybe climbing the wall in Wall Market doesn't take them directly to the Shinra HQ.
And there was a lot going on in Shinra HQ. Each floor is different, and there's some puzzles that were solved by just talking to everyone more than once. Lots of opportunity to mix things up there.
I find myself coming around on this multi-release idea, but what I find most worrying is the idea that things are going to be different between each release. Menus, the battle system, etc. Likely we won't be carrying characters forward too, and that makes the idea of Game Three being Disc Three all the more absurd.
There's a lot of room to do other things to flesh out the world between the first bombing run and the second. Maybe AVALANCHE needs to do some prep before their attempt on the Sector 5 reactor. Key codes from a information broker in Fort Condor who only accepts payment in GP?
Maybe climbing the wall in Wall Market doesn't take them directly to the Shinra HQ.
And there was a lot going on in Shinra HQ. Each floor is different, and there's some puzzles that were solved by just talking to everyone more than once. Lots of opportunity to mix things up there.
I find myself coming around on this multi-release idea, but what I find most worrying is the idea that things are going to be different between each release. Menus, the battle system, etc. Likely we won't be carrying characters forward too, and that makes the idea of Game Three being Disc Three all the more absurd.
Where did this rumour that it was only two parts come from anyway? Also I believe they also said first part out in November?
That would be perfect of true.
That would be perfect of true.
I'm hoping that they follow the structure of the 3 original discs, with part 3 being just all the side quests/WEAPONS/minigames finally being opened and more fleshed out with Sephiroth waiting for you. If not that, I'm okay with the article's take as well.
I said this in the article a little, but I think that the order has to follow the narrative first; they can pad it out how they want after that.
As far as structure goes, though, I do think it'll resemble FF10/13 early on. I can see you being given areas of Midgar to approach in a more nonlinear fashion - in the style of FF12 or even a slice of FF15, like one region (say, Hammerhead), but FF7's story is by definition a road trip, moving from place to place as you chase Sephiroth. As it happens, 10 and 13 are both road trips too... so they both make sense. The funny thing is that the "road trip game", FF15, actually isn't very road-trippy in terms of design, so I can't see 7 resembling that.
One thing I touch on but don't really expand in the article is this idea of: maybe we don't actually see a traditional world map until the third game. FF7 is funny because it is a road trip, A to B to C, for most of the game, but at the very end, before the finale, it really opens up with a lot for you to do in different areas of the map. Nomura has also spoken in the past about the difficulty of realistic-styled games and a traditional world map (we know they tried to make a world map work in Versus before it became 15 and couldn't) - but the problem disappears if you hold the world map back until that late point. Lost Odyssey did this; it runs point-to-point with a slick animated map with cool music for most of the game, then when you get the ship (and later, airship) you get access to a traditional world map - scaled to the large ships - which avoids the chibi character trekking across mountains dissonance that Nomura mentioned struggling with.
I posted my theory on Era, then a day later thought "actually, that'd make a pretty good piece," so fleshed it out from about 200 words to 1600. If I'm being honest, a lot of my articles are initially born in era posts or twitter threads that I stop and think are worth expanding on, haha. My verified tag makes clear where I'm from, though.
The problem here is the -- let's call it the Mass Effect problem, yeah? You want to for simple marketability reasons ensure that every entry can be played as the first. Obviously, nobody should've been going to Mass Effect 3 as their first entry in the series, but BioWare still made massive mechanical changes and design considerations to ensure you could. A game that is all side quests and late-game bosses might work as DLC, but it wouldn't work as a full release. Any full release sort of needs its own impetus, its own critical path, and that's why I'd say there's zero chance disc 3 makes up its own game. Also, the volume of content/assets/areas on Disc 2 is just nuts, so it makes sense that'd split. Midgar is the most dense individual area, but disc 2 takes you to way more places.
Y'all know where part 1 is gonna end
Part 2 is the rest of the game
For the same reasons as above, I just don't think this stacks because disc 2 is so much content, and unlike with Midgar disc 2 isn't one area that's cohesive in design, allowing for a bit of asset reuse - it covers loads of really different ground, which makes it a lot of work. In content terms, the halfway point is probably about a third of the way into disc 2. I could totally see this as an alternative ending point for the first game instead of escaping Midgar, though, with the second game then again, as I sorta proposed, running up to giving up the Black Materia.
More than anything, though, I think Kitase's very pointed comparisons to the FF13 trilogy comparing their plans to that suggest it will indeed be three.
Last edited:
I'd prefer no to be episodic. Since they won't hope they'll massively shorten the golden saucer section. What a boring slog.
When FFXIII only becomes open at the end, it's the ruiner of the franchise.
When FFVIIR does it, it's fine. Gotcha.
(I kid, I kid.)
When FFVIIR does it, it's fine. Gotcha.
(I kid, I kid.)
Three parts make the most sense. It'll be like a trilogy.
I don't believe Midgar will take the entirety of the first part. It will end based on story progress and developments. Midgar will probably be 1/3 of the first part. They can still section off the open word sections into parts as well.
I don't believe Midgar will take the entirety of the first part. It will end based on story progress and developments. Midgar will probably be 1/3 of the first part. They can still section off the open word sections into parts as well.
Ah yes, I had not thought about the road trip in FFVII and it's true. It's an excellent argument to take FFX/FFXIII world design into FFVIIR, at least for the first part. Then the second and the third parts may be more open. But I don't know how Chocobo breeding would work if you can't cross river or mountain, maybe FFXII design would work better if they want to do that.
As for Lost Odyssey example, I have not played it but I saw the video you linked in the other thread, and it could work but I don't know it seems a little cheap no? But again, I don't know this game so maybe I'm wrong.
There are a lot of possibilities and I'll welcome with an open mind their choices. And if it works, then it could become one of the templates for their futures games.
That's the cool thing about Lost Odyssey, though - it has that FFX style map early on, but in the late game it gives you a very traditional world map - so it's successfully the best of both worlds, which FF hasn't managed yet.
Well, we will see how it turns out but it can be a good thing if they take this world design.
Ah makes sense, sometimes i forget who is who and where they work.
If they end part one right after Midgar I'd prefer they did not add anything to Midgar but charged less than full price. When all parts are released having that particular part be chock full of filler would be bad. Might also be a good way to hook new players. The big downside of ending at Midgar is that part two would just about start with 40+ minutes of cutscene, and people would be itching to play the game again after however long they had to wait.
Other options include after the Kalm flashback and after Jenova Birth.
If the world map (or whatever they do with the overland travel) is a problem, they could actually delay that until after Kalm. They could make the wasteland surrounding Midgar into a normal-scale location or just make that walk into a cutscene. Would be a good place to add some Barret dialog actually, that wasteland is too dramatic to go without comment. In the next part, if they do have a world map, the huge scale of that waste would be revealed. The downside, apart from them having to build more locations, is that the flashback ends without a big boss fight.
Ending at Jenova Birth means having to solve that wilderness problem in the first part, but it does at least get us Fort Condor and it's potential minigame and the big snake to maybe tide us over until the next part is released. It'd also end with a great boss. The downside, of course, being that it is a lot more game to make.
Personally I'd say go as far as the flashback. End part one with Red's line, "What a fascinating story....."
Other options include after the Kalm flashback and after Jenova Birth.
If the world map (or whatever they do with the overland travel) is a problem, they could actually delay that until after Kalm. They could make the wasteland surrounding Midgar into a normal-scale location or just make that walk into a cutscene. Would be a good place to add some Barret dialog actually, that wasteland is too dramatic to go without comment. In the next part, if they do have a world map, the huge scale of that waste would be revealed. The downside, apart from them having to build more locations, is that the flashback ends without a big boss fight.
Ending at Jenova Birth means having to solve that wilderness problem in the first part, but it does at least get us Fort Condor and it's potential minigame and the big snake to maybe tide us over until the next part is released. It'd also end with a great boss. The downside, of course, being that it is a lot more game to make.
Personally I'd say go as far as the flashback. End part one with Red's line, "What a fascinating story....."
I'm of the opinion that Midgar will be the entirety of the first episode. Episode two would thematically do well to end with the
. I expect that episode three from there would be the remainder of the game. In that scenario, I can imagine the third episode playing out in a similar manner to Mass Effect 3 wherein Avalanche is gathering resources to stop Meteor before the final fight.
first Crater fight, Cloud disappearing and the unleashing of the Weapons