Salaries would need to be adjusted too but not by half. I think the league would make more money because games would matter more.
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How would you improve the NBA product?
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OP
OP
Yeah I miss the best of 5 shenanigans from those days. Lots of upset potential.
I'm open to ELAM ending, I don't think it'll ever happen but I think it's a positive change and I love that the NIT implemented it so you get to see how it changes fairly high level basketball.
I'm not sure how to change the rules of the game, but I'd love to see high level basketball played without a 3-point line just to see how the game changes. I don't want the three pointer removed in the pros, but I'd like to see how the game changes without it, where the mid-range jumper becomes the dominant style and how defenses have to adapt to it.
I don't think that the era of player mobility is good for the league or the sport. It's good for drama, it's good for twitter feuds, but it basically makes 26 teams irrelevant for the title. Every once in a while you get a team like Miami from two years ago who can make a serious run and hope to get lucky in the championship against a stacked team, but over 7 games it's hard for the stacked super squad to truly lose out. But also I don't know if that Miami squad makes the run outside of the bubble either, that season was such a unique one with the long delay and then quick wrap up. I get that player mobility era is good for players, they basically set their own salaries, take paycuts, dictate salaries in the league, and play where they want with who they want on contracts that basically don't exist, aren't binding, and they all get paid in some way. But it sucks for fan bases for about 26 cities in a given season.
I'd like to see the league cull back from 82 games to something like 58-60. Again, I know the league would not accept a revenue decrease. So mid-season I think there should be a 2-3 week break where you have a sort of all-star event, with a designed 1 on 1 tournament, and they seed the tournament in a way that makes really interesting matchups. WWE King of the Ring style, where you set it up so that Ja Morant and Zion WIlliamson have to play 1 on 1 in round 2, or Bol Bol vs. Tako Fall in round 1. Call your own fouls. An alternative would be an olympic-style 3 on 3 tournament of mixed teams/players, with the international 3-on-3 rules. They also have to incentivize players to play because teams won't want their stars to play in the tournament to avoid injuries, but imagine how sick it'd be to see Donovan Mitchel v Jamaal Murray, AD vs Giannis, Durant v Lebron... Even without a financial incentive I think players would take a 1 on 1 incredibly seriously against each other, especially if you call your own fouls. There could also be some good matchups WWE style where two teammates end up getting matched, Tatum vs Brown. This also really rewards the era of mobile sports betting. Live lines. Imagine if the final four was played in one night, 7PM you have game 1, 730 game 2, 8pm the championship. 90mins of basketball at a bar with live line betting, shit would get pretty serious.
3 on 3 international rules tournament. Teams are representative of ~16 NBA franchises or regions or something. Each team is made up of 5 players, 2 from the NBA team, and then 3 from the G-league with a rule that at least one G-league player has to be on the court at all times maybe with reserve players for injury reasons. I Think you'd get a lot of hungry g-leaguers looking to prove themselves.
I don't think these things improve the actual game. I'm not sure how you do that. The league has tried to fix the end of games. It's better than it was in the late 90s/early 2000s, they reduced the amount of timeouts you can take in a given period of time, added some changes to the foul calling system.
Would changing to a 5/7 system for fouls like college benefit play? It rewards "saving" those 2 fouls from 5-7 before the double bonus, gives the defense incentive to not foul after foul 4 until the end of the half to save those 2 fouls. But, again the 1 and 1 might be too much of a reward, and it could be the wrong incentive.
I'm not sure how to change the rules of the game, but I'd love to see high level basketball played without a 3-point line just to see how the game changes. I don't want the three pointer removed in the pros, but I'd like to see how the game changes without it, where the mid-range jumper becomes the dominant style and how defenses have to adapt to it.
I don't think that the era of player mobility is good for the league or the sport. It's good for drama, it's good for twitter feuds, but it basically makes 26 teams irrelevant for the title. Every once in a while you get a team like Miami from two years ago who can make a serious run and hope to get lucky in the championship against a stacked team, but over 7 games it's hard for the stacked super squad to truly lose out. But also I don't know if that Miami squad makes the run outside of the bubble either, that season was such a unique one with the long delay and then quick wrap up. I get that player mobility era is good for players, they basically set their own salaries, take paycuts, dictate salaries in the league, and play where they want with who they want on contracts that basically don't exist, aren't binding, and they all get paid in some way. But it sucks for fan bases for about 26 cities in a given season.
I'd like to see the league cull back from 82 games to something like 58-60. Again, I know the league would not accept a revenue decrease. So mid-season I think there should be a 2-3 week break where you have a sort of all-star event, with a designed 1 on 1 tournament, and they seed the tournament in a way that makes really interesting matchups. WWE King of the Ring style, where you set it up so that Ja Morant and Zion WIlliamson have to play 1 on 1 in round 2, or Bol Bol vs. Tako Fall in round 1. Call your own fouls. An alternative would be an olympic-style 3 on 3 tournament of mixed teams/players, with the international 3-on-3 rules. They also have to incentivize players to play because teams won't want their stars to play in the tournament to avoid injuries, but imagine how sick it'd be to see Donovan Mitchel v Jamaal Murray, AD vs Giannis, Durant v Lebron... Even without a financial incentive I think players would take a 1 on 1 incredibly seriously against each other, especially if you call your own fouls. There could also be some good matchups WWE style where two teammates end up getting matched, Tatum vs Brown. This also really rewards the era of mobile sports betting. Live lines. Imagine if the final four was played in one night, 7PM you have game 1, 730 game 2, 8pm the championship. 90mins of basketball at a bar with live line betting, shit would get pretty serious.
3 on 3 international rules tournament. Teams are representative of ~16 NBA franchises or regions or something. Each team is made up of 5 players, 2 from the NBA team, and then 3 from the G-league with a rule that at least one G-league player has to be on the court at all times maybe with reserve players for injury reasons. I Think you'd get a lot of hungry g-leaguers looking to prove themselves.
I don't think these things improve the actual game. I'm not sure how you do that. The league has tried to fix the end of games. It's better than it was in the late 90s/early 2000s, they reduced the amount of timeouts you can take in a given period of time, added some changes to the foul calling system.
Would changing to a 5/7 system for fouls like college benefit play? It rewards "saving" those 2 fouls from 5-7 before the double bonus, gives the defense incentive to not foul after foul 4 until the end of the half to save those 2 fouls. But, again the 1 and 1 might be too much of a reward, and it could be the wrong incentive.
No more time-outs in the last two minutes. Adapt on the fly. Maybe even shorter shot-clock in the last two minutes. Maybe shorter quarters? The average game lasts way too long and except for several games during a season it's never that entertaining to be worth it.
I actually think generally the NBA is proactive and smart with making changes even this year with some of the foul baiting changes. I think the quality of play is still good and the talent is in a good place. But there are some tweaks, most of which have to do with game flow:
I get that this is a complicated topic, the players are the product and they deserve agency. But the NBA is still a partnership between players, franchises, and yes the fans. Having a permanent underclass of the NBA serves no one. There has to be middle ground here - this isn't a problem to anywhere near this extent in the other professional leagues. I understand there have always been dynasties in the NBA due to a variety of factors, but it's different now and definitely trending a certain way that isn't good for the league long-term; Giannis is an outlier. Everyone is accountable to creating a better system - the crappy (and sometimes cheap) owners, shortsighted management, and the players.
- They have to get a hold of the end of games. Accept that not every call will be the perfect one - fans already do. Majorly limit reviews and have replay center handle them with a strict time limit. It's a bad experience for everyone - in arena fans, tv watchers, and even players and refs. There's just no flow. It also undermines the refs; on a related note, get rid of the Last 2 minute report - it serves no one.
- Embrace no-calls. We've seen a bit of improvement here, but it's OK to not call something.
- Penalize fast break take fouls. Pretty confident they'll do this. There is a starting point here with intentional foul rules.
- Widen the court - I'm not in favor of moving the line at this point though.
- They won't, but limiting the schedule would help - maybe 70-75 games.
- For the playoffs, 5-game first round and 3-game sweeps (if a team is up 3-0 in a 7-game series, they win)
I get that this is a complicated topic, the players are the product and they deserve agency. But the NBA is still a partnership between players, franchises, and yes the fans. Having a permanent underclass of the NBA serves no one. There has to be middle ground here - this isn't a problem to anywhere near this extent in the other professional leagues. I understand there have always been dynasties in the NBA due to a variety of factors, but it's different now and definitely trending a certain way that isn't good for the league long-term; Giannis is an outlier. Everyone is accountable to creating a better system - the crappy (and sometimes cheap) owners, shortsighted management, and the players.
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I'd personally remove the free throw and there are several interesting proposals on how it would work but this will never happen.
Get better referees and have young talent step up and run the league which to be fair has been the case the last two years. Also they have to figure out payroll. Too many max contracts being handed out to mediocre talent.
Edit: also any fouls stopping a fast break should be at least a flagrant 1 (one shot technical foul). I am tempted to say flagrant two but that might deter defenders from attempting chase down blocks. This is in addition to the clear path foul.
Edit: also any fouls stopping a fast break should be at least a flagrant 1 (one shot technical foul). I am tempted to say flagrant two but that might deter defenders from attempting chase down blocks. This is in addition to the clear path foul.
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It might be more popular but it's superstars aren't breaking into the mainstream like NFL players—my bet is Lebron becomes the last big NBA superstar
I don't like super teams but they are actually great for ratings
In the US? Or is this basically by virtue of the Chinese market?
I think the product is fine overall, its never going to be the NFL or college football because of the cultural hold football has in America. It has carved its niche. The small QOL changes like best of 5 first round in the playoffs, and removal of take fouls are not going to send its popularity to the level of the NFL.
Last years finals was one of the best ive seen since I became a hardcore fan 12 years ago.
I dont really want a shortened regular season either, I love watching my team throughout the year and watching young players develop and figure it out.
Last years finals was one of the best ive seen since I became a hardcore fan 12 years ago.
I dont really want a shortened regular season either, I love watching my team throughout the year and watching young players develop and figure it out.
I have no idea how to implement it but improved, more consistent officiating would be a dramatic improvement to the game imo. At the end of the day, refs are people and people are imperfect so I don't really have any suggestions other than "do better".
And as much as I do sincerely enjoy watching a stacked team of all stars play, it really sucks not being able to regularly watch "small market" basketball on TV without buying a league pass. It's insane to me that neither KC nor STL have a team, but at least we could watch OKC right?
And as much as I do sincerely enjoy watching a stacked team of all stars play, it really sucks not being able to regularly watch "small market" basketball on TV without buying a league pass. It's insane to me that neither KC nor STL have a team, but at least we could watch OKC right?
More popular because it's a global game now reaching more people due to changes in distribution. They aren't hitting the same ratings in the US as the Jordan days which you would expect from a league that is surging in popularity.
have the refs stop protecting soft ring chasers like lebron
detroit pistons made the nba great in the 90s.
detroit pistons made the nba great in the 90s.
Detroit was mostly irrelevant in the 90s. Are you referring to the 00s or late 80s?
This is a good one. The TV contracts are all really messed up with regional contracts, blackouts and such. Let people watch games when and how they want.
This is silly. The league has become a bloated and diluted mess with too much money being laid out to reward mediocrity. 32 teams is over the top if you are looking for competitiveness and especially with the terrible dilution of talent available . It's time we start contracting teams. I think getting rid of teams will make the league far more competitive and watchable...
3-game playoff series. Even 5 games was wild as a kid, they did away with that. 3 games and now things get fun. There's a reason March Madness is still an event
It has parity and it has meaningful tension. And it has different styles of play. Any style can win one game you need to win. Over 7 games over and over, the 3-point driven teams and superstars take over. Find a way to de-emphasize the 3-pointer and let teams be physical would be great too.
Physicality. Allow taunting, allow physicality. All things that can psychologically beat a 'better' opponent in a small margin for error situation. Decrease the margins a team can fuck around. It's all about drama, skill, variety of approach, and representing a region
It has parity and it has meaningful tension. And it has different styles of play. Any style can win one game you need to win. Over 7 games over and over, the 3-point driven teams and superstars take over. Find a way to de-emphasize the 3-pointer and let teams be physical would be great too.
Physicality. Allow taunting, allow physicality. All things that can psychologically beat a 'better' opponent in a small margin for error situation. Decrease the margins a team can fuck around. It's all about drama, skill, variety of approach, and representing a region
I'm not sure how you'd stop that as that's more of a consequence of having offensive fouls in general
If you stop that specific moves players will just do the same thing with their hands behind their backs or something
League contraction is a gamble in itself.
Like let's say you axe the Timberwolves and Bucks - why should someone in Minneapolis give a shit about the Bulls?
So would the increase in competition outweigh the negatives of a lack of regional interest?
Talent isn't a problem, due to the global nature of the game there is more top end talent than ever, more than enough for everyone. What we need however, are mechanisms to prevent consolodation of the top end talent in few places. Contraction won't change ring chasers signing with stacked teams.
- Lower the amount of games played. Way too many injuries these last few years.
- Push back the 3-pt line and eliminate corner threes.
- Allow the defense to play harder defense.
- Hard cap so we can avoid superteams.
- Do something against those intentional fouls in the back court. 2 shots and ball back.
- Push back the 3-pt line and eliminate corner threes.
- Allow the defense to play harder defense.
- Hard cap so we can avoid superteams.
- Do something against those intentional fouls in the back court. 2 shots and ball back.
OP
OP
Ring chasing is interesting since I don't think it would've been that big of a thing if wasn't for the sports talking heads overvaluing championships--SAS and the likes. Players feel that pressure.
Wauw, now that is a take
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Also NFL players are waaaaaaay less mainstream than nba stars. This isn't even a debate. NFL markets their teams not their players
I couldn't say for sure which markets contribute most to its growth but on a global scale it is certainly more popular
To help with all you are talking about, OP, we need to start from the real problem.
The NBA tries to find the next "insert name" to be the face. They need to promote more than just 1 or 2 players. The NFL's talent pool is so deep that when superstar-caliber players like Tom Brady, Jerry Rice, Lawrence Taylor, and Peyton Manning retires, they already have others lined up to take over the helm. When Brady retires, we already have Mahomes, Burrow, and so many good young QBs ready to go or give it a shot.
The NBA should develop their players more. The NFL draft is more profound and has more talent, granted that's the make-up of the roster and how many players can play, but the drafted products are undercooked and need more time.
The NFL is simply better with talent development and by pushing college players to stay 3 years vs 1. They know that this is the best course of action for the league; like it or not.
The NBA tries to find the next "insert name" to be the face. They need to promote more than just 1 or 2 players. The NFL's talent pool is so deep that when superstar-caliber players like Tom Brady, Jerry Rice, Lawrence Taylor, and Peyton Manning retires, they already have others lined up to take over the helm. When Brady retires, we already have Mahomes, Burrow, and so many good young QBs ready to go or give it a shot.
The NBA should develop their players more. The NFL draft is more profound and has more talent, granted that's the make-up of the roster and how many players can play, but the drafted products are undercooked and need more time.
The NFL is simply better with talent development and by pushing college players to stay 3 years vs 1. They know that this is the best course of action for the league; like it or not.
The NBA has an incredibly passionate core group of fans, but the league is nowhere near what it used to be—who is someone on Lebron's level that the general public would recognize as an NBA superstar?
The current league's superstars don't even come close to what Kobe, Shaq, and AI were doing in the late 90s and early 2000s. The hardcore know who the great players are, but there's no way some random person on the street would be able to pick Ja Morant/Jayson Tatum/Booker out of a crowd—hell, they might not even be able to identify Steph, Harden or KD out of a crowd.
The sport risks going the way of professional baseball if the league doesn't make changes.
OP
OP
I don't see it going to MLB levels. MLB has a lot of other problems--aging fanbase, younger audiences find it boring, very long games, it's obsession to tradition to the detriment of the game.
But there's something about today's NBA being too media savvy and safe.
I like the sport, but this is so true. I wont claim to know all the changes they need to make, but they need them. I haven't seen a lot of hype around an NBA season in a long long time.
To be fair I think the league pass solves this problem, albeit for a cost. I'm just too cheap top buy it - it's an extra $40 a month through Youtube TV! The side effect is that in spite of myself I'm slowly becoming a fan of the small handful of teams that consistently play on TNT or ESPN every night - Lakers, Warriors, Jazz, 76ers, Nuggets, Bucks, etc...
Hmm, I like the way the NBA is right now, it's fine. There some things I would want changed, I need to think on them.
I do like like the changes in the foul baiting stuff this year.
I watch and enjoy it. Maybe the season could be a bit shorter.
I do like like the changes in the foul baiting stuff this year.
I watch and enjoy it. Maybe the season could be a bit shorter.
The NBA as a sport is ok where its currently at. The NFL is basically US version of Gladiator sport. There's nothing the NBA can do to make it that. I love both sports.
You think Curry, KD and Harden aren't recognizable to the average person on the street? Pretty bad take.
Simple, stop penalizing defensive play. I get that we can't let players go as hard as they used to in the 80s and 90s for health and longevity reasons , but the pendulum has swung so far in the other direction that the rules and refs basically reward flopping more than even soccer does. It kills the momentum of the game and takes away from the drama on the court. Fix that, and you'll see the action spread back out on the court.
OP
OP
I honestly think the biggest appeal of the NFL is the weekly format, single game playoff elimination, and much fewer games. It's the perfect TV sport.
Fewer games make them an event and easier to follow.
There's an violent and territorial aspect to football that appeals to Americans as well.