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Exellus

Exellus

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,348
I've said for a long time - years - if I were in charge how I'd split it would be:

  1. Midgar
  2. Nibelheim Flashback at Kalm to the Northern Crater (first visit, Cloud goes missing)
  3. Search for Cloud to Finale



Kalm to Junon has the Nibelheim Flashback, which if expanded to take in ideas from CC and the like could run 3-4 hours on its own. It also has Fort Condor, which could be expanded to be a huge game, a large dungeon, gaining entry to Junon, Yuffie's recruitment (which is sure to turn from a 4-minute conversation into a multi-stand quest) - there's more than it seems. But probably not enough to make a "full size game" even with a lot of padding, imo. The funny thing is Kalm to Junon is probably not much shorter than Midgar in the original game in hour-content terms, but there's not nearly as much depth/content there in terms of how the setting could be explored or expanded when compared to Midgar.

I like this split the best for 3 parts, but I've been thinking how could they possibly fit all of that into the second part in a single game. Maybe if they don't expand other parts of the game as much as Midgar.

But part of me WANTS them to expand every city, so I wouldn't be surprised if it takes more than 3 parts. So now I'm thinking what are the best splits for more than 3 parts, assuming every part of the game is expanded top to bottom.
 

APZonerunner

Features Editor at VG247.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,725
England
Yeah, this is the strongest suggestion so far.

Nibelheim is tutorial. Northern cave is the final dungeon, just how it was like in the original. Have some sort of Jenova or Sephiroth final boss.

Then part 3 is a Tifa game. Opens with Weapon attacking. The Weapons are the main plot point, with Meteor. You learn more about Holy and what could happen when it meets Meteor.

I've said for a long time that a good way to think about the split - and how hopefully they have - is what your three-act structure is within each game. This is where FF7 is in danger, because it's the Hobbit movie problem - how do you split one three act structure into nine? You need three stories, each with their own three-act structure that stands alone.

Obviously not all stories have to follow the standard sort of three act up-and-down, but the FF games typically do as they're not really all that sophisticated from a storytelling perspective (which isn't a dig - the stories are still great regardless. Complexity or sophistication does not equal quality, after all).

The structure I've been a fan of for a while does give a good three-act outline to the existing story with room for expansion and stuff. The second game in paritcular - rather than the end of the game, you shunt that major scene to the middle of the game, where it becomes the end of the second act. Think of this as the moment where Luke realizes his friends are in danger in Empire Strikes Back and abandons his training with Yoda. Then you have the moment where Cloud goes missing, which sort of forms that ending moment.

That structure also has tutorials offered in quite a natural-feeling way, cos you've got young Cloud in the flashback at the opening of game 2, learning from Sephiroth, and Tifa as a leader for the first time and getting to grips with that at the start of game 3. But, as pointed out by another...

I like this split the best for 3 parts, but I've been thinking how could they possibly fit all of that into the second part in a single game. Maybe if they don't expand other parts of the game as much as Midgar.

But part of me WANTS them to expand every city, so I wouldn't be surprised if it takes more than 3 parts. So now I'm thinking what are the best splits for more than 3 parts, assuming every part of the game is expanded top to bottom.

The only issue, I think, is the size of game 2. That's a lot of ground to cover, a lot of assets to build... but the advantage of that is then that game 3 would be mostly asset reuse. Game 3 would be lighter on content, but you'd probably save stuff like a visit to Wutai, the final optional showdown with the Turks in the underwater base, and learning about Vincent's past for the third game to help pad it out.

I think as far as Game 2 goes, it depends. Junon will obviously be sizable, as will the Gold Saucer. But Corel and Costa Del Sol can probably stay small... and Nibelheim should be small, as the whole point is that Cloud and Tifa are small-town kids. But yeah. It all depends on how they do it.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,666
I like this split the best for 3 parts, but I've been thinking how could they possibly fit all of that into the second part in a single game. Maybe if they don't expand other parts of the game as much as Midgar.

But part of me WANTS them to expand every city, so I wouldn't be surprised if it takes more than 3 parts. So now I'm thinking what are the best splits for more than 3 parts, assuming every part of the game is expanded top to bottom.

I've been saying it for four months now, but the split should've been:

* Midgar to Junon, ending on the Cargo Ship
* Costa Del Sol to the City of the Ancients
* Post-CotA to Endgame

The way they split the first episode off screwed up every possible way you could naturally break up the rest of the game into a three-part narrative structure.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,152
depends how the post Midgar stuff is divvied out, namely how they handle the world map. i don't think using the original game's plot points as reference really applies at this point
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
They could easily move some of the things in Part 2 to Part 3 if the former is too long. Like I don't think anyone will cry if Gongaga is moved to Part 3
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
I've said for a long time - years - if I were in charge how I'd split it would be:

  1. Midgar
  2. Nibelheim Flashback at Kalm to the Northern Crater (first visit, Cloud goes missing)
  3. Search for Cloud to Finale



Kalm to Junon has the Nibelheim Flashback, which if expanded to take in ideas from CC and the like could run 3-4 hours on its own. It also has Fort Condor, which could be expanded to be a huge game, a large dungeon, gaining entry to Junon, Yuffie's recruitment (which is sure to turn from a 4-minute conversation into a multi-stand quest) - there's more than it seems. But probably not enough to make a "full size game" even with a lot of padding, imo. The funny thing is Kalm to Junon is probably not much shorter than Midgar in the original game in hour-content terms, but there's not nearly as much depth/content there in terms of how the setting could be explored or expanded when compared to Midgar.

The longest and most significant things in that whole section are the flashback and Junon itself. The mithril mine is extremely short and Fort Condor is a sidequest of which you only play the start at that point, and that has nothing to do with the main game gameplay or plot wise. It's not even close to how much time you spend in Midgar doing interesting things and advancing the story. Midgar is dense. Sure, they will probably expand on it anyway, but it would still make for a very poor game.

I've said since the beginning that part 1 should end on the ship with the Jenova Birth fight. Start part 2 arriving on Costa Del Sol and end it at the North Crater. Part 3 would be the rest.
 

APZonerunner

Features Editor at VG247.com
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
1,725
England
I've been saying it for four months now, but the split should've been:

* Midgar to Junon, ending on the Cargo Ship
* Costa Del Sol to the City of the Ancients
* Post-CotA to Endgame

The way they split the first episode off screwed up every possible way you could naturally break up the rest of the game into a three-part narrative structure.

I really don't think this is true in that if you split the first game up into three acts analysing it as a typical three-act structure, Midgar is absolutely the end of act one. Sephiroth/Jenova's killing spree in Shinra HQ and realizing there's a whole world you're going to have to chase him across is absolutely the call to action at the end of act 1, for both Cloud and the player. What's the call to action at the Cargo ship? Fighting an enemy they already knew about?
 

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
The longest and most significant things in that whole section are the flashback and Junon itself. The mithril mine is extremely short and Fort Condor is a sidequest of which you only play the start at that point, and that has nothing to do with the main game gameplay or plot wise. It's not even close to how much time you spend in Midgar doing interesting things and advancing the story. Midgar is dense. Sure, they will probably expand on it anyway, but it would still make for a very poor game.
Yup the whole Fort Condor could be moved out of Part 2, it's not even plot-relevant
 

Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,856
Japan
The problem with it is that between Kalm and that first visit to the Northern Crater you have visited every single portion of the world map except the minor side areas only reachable by the Highwind or Gold Chocobo. Most of the second half of the story is revisits of old areas outside of Mideel and the true final dungeon.

They are not going to build the ENTIRE GAME WORLD for the middle entry when they couldn't even manage a tiny sliver of it for part 1. They will probably cut the second chapter off after Nibelheim or Rocket Town.

They very well might. That amount of content is more in line with a single modern JRPG. Then just fast track the final entry.
 

Dary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,410
The English Wilderness
The problem with it is that between Kalm and that first visit to the Northern Crater you have visited every single portion of the world map except the minor side areas only reachable by the Highwind or Gold Chocobo. Most of the second half of the story is revisits of old areas outside of Mideel and the true final dungeon.

They are not going to build the ENTIRE GAME WORLD for the middle entry when they couldn't even manage a tiny sliver of it for part 1. They will probably cut the second chapter off after Nibelheim or Rocket Town.
This is why I'd open the second game at Junon. Rufus's inauguration provides a nice, dramatic opening sequence that picks off where the first game (presumably) ends, while the trip to Costa del Sol provides a perfect opportunity for the Nibelheim flashback (how it plays out would depend on how they utilise Jenova/Sephiroth in part one).

The rest of the game then focuses on the western continent, with the Temple of the Ancients serving as final dungeon. Effectively, all you're cutting out is the eastern continent, but with the Kalm flashbacks shifted elsewhere, you're not really losing anything besides the Chocobo Ranch (which you can move), Midgar Zolom (not really needed, since you've presumably established Sephiroth's strength in Part 1 anyway) and Fort Condor (a mini-game that, again, can be moved elsehwere).
I've said for a long time that a good way to think about the split - and how hopefully they have - is what your three-act structure is within each game. This is where FF7 is in danger, because it's the Hobbit movie problem - how do you split one three act structure into nine? You need three stories, each with their own three-act structure that stands alone.
FF7 fits the five act structure way better than it does three.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,666
They very well might. That amount of content is more in line with a single modern JRPG. Then just fast track the final entry.

There aren't any modern JRPGs that even attempt to have a world of a similar size to FFVII, though. Modern JRPGs are all super small-scale or so ugly and cheaply made that they don't even merit a mention. The kind of level of detail and world design they're shooting for here is incomparable to your standard PS4/Switch asset-reuse-heavy JRPG.
 

Encephalon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,856
Japan
There aren't any modern JRPGs that even attempt to have a world of a similar size to FFVII, though. Modern JRPGs are all super small-scale or so ugly and cheaply made that they don't even merit a mention. The kind of level of detail and world design they're shooting for here is incomparable to your standard PS4/Switch asset-reuse-heavy JRPG.
Right. It's a remake of Final Fantasy VII. They can do that much.

They can at least reuse assets between Midgar and Junon, then Kalm and Nibleheim. I have a hunch they'll rethink Rocket Town.

Now that Midgar is out of the way, it should be much more feasible.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,666
I really don't think this is true in that if you split the first game up into three acts analysing it as a typical three-act structure, Midgar is absolutely the end of act one. Sephiroth/Jenova's killing spree in Shinra HQ and realizing there's a whole world you're going to have to chase him across is absolutely the call to action at the end of act 1, for both Cloud and the player. What's the call to action at the Cargo ship? Fighting an enemy they already knew about?

I honestly think the end of act 1 in the real story is Nibelheim Mansion. Midgar is the prologue or the opening number of the opera, the first act begins AFTER you leave.

Though I hesitate to call VII a three-act story anyway. It's really closer to five-act, or a four-part opera with a curtain/intermission in the middle after Aeris dies.
 

SkyOdin

Member
Apr 21, 2018
2,680
I've said for a long time - years - if I were in charge how I'd split it would be:

  1. Midgar
  2. Nibelheim Flashback at Kalm to the Northern Crater (first visit, Cloud goes missing)
  3. Search for Cloud to Finale



Kalm to Junon has the Nibelheim Flashback, which if expanded to take in ideas from CC and the like could run 3-4 hours on its own. It also has Fort Condor, which could be expanded to be a huge game, a large dungeon, gaining entry to Junon, Yuffie's recruitment (which is sure to turn from a 4-minute conversation into a multi-stand quest) - there's more than it seems. But probably not enough to make a "full size game" even with a lot of padding, imo. The funny thing is Kalm to Junon is probably not much shorter than Midgar in the original game in hour-content terms, but there's not nearly as much depth/content there in terms of how the setting could be explored or expanded when compared to Midgar.
This is the ideal way to break up the game into three parts narratively. Your part 2 is probably too big from a gameplay/asset creation standpoint. It is probably more feasible to break the game up into four parts, by breaking your part 2 in half at Nibelheim itself. Since Nibelheim is central to the game's story, an expanded version of the events when the characters visit the town itself would make for an appropriate endpoint for a part. Then part 3 could kick off with Rocket Town, meeting Cid, and the world opening up.
 

Gaia Lanzer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,670
Parts 1-3 Disc 1
Parts 4-6 Disc 2
Part 7 Disc 3

Realistically I think it's gonna be three parts with the world traveling significantly reduced as a result
No way would you be able to need 3 parts for Disc 2. Disc 1 was the MEATIEST of all three discs. Disc 2 and Disc 3 combined wouldn't even come close to the amount of length and story presented in the first Disc. Disc 2 and 3 could all exist in the final part of the Remake.
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
There's also a lot of groundwork that has already been done with the first episode. From all sorts of assets to a lot of the world and gameplay design.
 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,662
The more parts they add, the less they'll be able to get away with full-game releases for each one at $60.

Now that I think about it, I think the way to go would be to sell the first part as a full release, and the rest of the parts are sold as expansions. Have they talked about what method they're using?
 

Menchi

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,143
UK
I'm still dismayed at it being split at all... Both too few, and too many splits bring in issues.
 

Shawn Carter

Banned
Sep 24, 2019
39
5 is too much. Are they really considering having this be more than 2 or 3 parts? if so then sorry, Square, I'll catch you on the definitive edition. This shit is RIDICULOUS.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,666
The more parts they add, the less they'll be able to get away with full-game releases for each one at $60.

Now that I think about it, I think the way to go would be to sell the first part as a full release, and the rest of the parts are sold as expansions. Have they talked about what method they're using?

It sounds like they're going for the "multiple full-price retail releases" structure for the later episodes.

5 is too much. Are they really considering having this be more than 2 or 3 parts? if so then sorry, Square, I'll catch you on the definitive edition. This shit is RIDICULOUS.

They have no idea how many parts it's going to be. My guess is there's absolutely no plan moving forward, especially as regarding the overworld - that was part of the reason Versus XIII took a decade to finish, after all. They couldn't decide how to make the overworld.
 

Nameless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,357
If Squeenix managed to achieve an "Assassin's Creed" schedule where they pumped out the next 4 games in 6 years, fine, I guess, provided the games didn't feel rushed or stretched thin.
 

TheMrPliskin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,564
What the fuck else do they have to show nowadays? If you're not enthusiastic about having a decade of your life wasted on a remake, there's NOTHING to look forward to out of Square.
One of the most well received Final Fantasy games came out 3 months ago. During the course of the remakes development we'll no doubt see another new mainline game as well as a handful of new XIV expansions.

Disliking Square's handling of the remake is something I get, even I don't agree. I just don't see how it's at all reflective of the future of Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy games will continue to be developed and released alongside the various parts of the FF7 Remake.
In several parts. They can change all they want, it will not be the full story. It will always be full of loose threads that can't be resolved so they will just add a bunch of new ones to make it feel each part is a full game by itself.

Putting new changes doesn't mean it will be better. It only means that they added more stuff, which can range to great to unbelievably bad. Their work on the compilation of FF7 makes me believe that it has a higher chance of being a disaster train than anything else.
I totally get that and I'm not exactly immediately on board with them adding stuff either as I didn't care for any of the compilation titles. I just don't think that the Remake means that the future of Final Fantasy in uninspired.

Not only is the future of FF more than this remake but they're at least approaching the remake with the intention of making it stand on it's own, rather than being the same game but with nicer graphics. It could fail horribly but I don't think that anything about their approach is uninspired.
 
Feb 5, 2018
2,940
Part 1: Beginning to Leaving Midgar
Part 2: Kalm to Leaving Junon
Part 3: Costa Del Sol to Forgotten Capital
Part 4: Icicle Inn to Diamond Weapon Battle
Part 5: Return to Midgar to End


They better be retelling and revamping Before Crisis, Last Order, Crisis core, Advent children, Dirge of Cerberus and new original content if we they have the audacity to make 5 games OP.

Lol
 

RKasa

Member
Jul 28, 2019
680
New Jersey
But even IF they keep it true to the original, everything after Midgar still makes up 90% of the damn game. Combine that with cutscenes taking significantly longer due to voice acting and the fact these idiots have no idea how to design an RPG overworld and there's absolutely no way they can finish the entire rest of the game in two entries.
Yup. The people who believe this is going to be three parts total are being incredibly optimistic. Sure, Part One leaves them with models for more than half the playable cast, plus the battle system set in stone, but there will still be a whole lot of town, enemy, and other assets left to take care of. Doubt there'll be a traditional overworld; it'll probably be linear, FFX-style.

I've been saying it for four months now, but the split should've been:

* Midgar to Junon, ending on the Cargo Ship
* Costa Del Sol to the City of the Ancients
* Post-CotA to Endgame

The way they split the first episode off screwed up every possible way you could naturally break up the rest of the game into a three-part narrative structure.
That would've worked out pretty well. As it is, OP's suggestion of Outside Midgar - Junon for Part Two makes sense to me, if the cargo ship is included. That would give the series its first Jenova boss battle to end on.

Don't know about the rest yet. I'd need to see what happens with Part Two before making any solid predictions.

Gongaga? But you walk past it to progress the story. What would be the logic behind just NOT letting the player go there when they naturally reach that part of the world?
I'm not sure if it was intentional on the creators' part, but Gongaga is entirely skippable in the original game. None of the Zack-related story bits there are essential and are (or could be) covered elsewhere; the most important things missed are some Huge Materia foreshadowing and unique materia for the party.
 
Last edited:

Wagram

Banned
Nov 8, 2017
2,443
As long as they're quality and content filled then sure. I'm not llooking at this as a single title anymore. The ambition for the remake is high.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,666
One of the most well received Final Fantasy games came out 3 months ago. During the course of the remakes development we'll no doubt see another new mainline game as well as a handful of new XIV expansions.

Disliking Square's handling of the remake is something I get, even I don't agree. I just don't see how it's at all reflective of the future of Final Fantasy. Final Fantasy games will continue to be developed and released alongside the various parts of the FF7 Remake.

Forgive me if I don't have much faith in Square and their "we can only talk about one game at a time" marketing strategy. We haven't heard one shred of information about the next mainline game and it sounds like we won't for quite a while because they're only allowed to talk about FFVIIR Prologue. I won't be surprised at all if they refuse to talk about XVI until the whole remake is done, since they're treating this nonsense like a mainline game.

Yup. The people who believe this is going to be three parts total are being incredibly optimistic. Sure, Part One leaves them with models for more than half the playable cast, plus the battle system set in stone, but there will still be a whole lot of town, enemy, and other assets left to take care of. Doubt there'll be a traditional overworld; it'll probably be linear, FFX-style.

I would hope everyone would riot if they pulled FFX's bullshit overworld for the remake. Menu overworlds are terrible.
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,565
The problem with it is that between Kalm and that first visit to the Northern Crater you have visited every single portion of the world map except the minor side areas only reachable by the Highwind or Gold Chocobo. Most of the second half of the story is revisits of old areas outside of Mideel and the true final dungeon.

They are not going to build the ENTIRE GAME WORLD for the middle entry when they couldn't even manage a tiny sliver of it for part 1. They will probably cut the second chapter off after Nibelheim or Rocket Town.

I believe it is because they have to make the entire world it makes more sense for them to keep it to 1 game. Especially if it is some kind of open world. Imagine having to make midgar plus half a world or a quarter for the first part. It is easier to segmentised Midgar into the first game while building the battle system, the world and half the characters. And have more time to build the whole world enemies plus story for the second part. The third game can come faster than the second because almost all of the world is built already.
 

EtaMari

Member
Dec 17, 2018
335
It reminds me Life is Strange seasons and Resident Evil Revelation 2.
As long as it priced right and eventually will feel like one complete game, its OK.
The things that worries me are multiple parts for $30-60 + $ DLC + $ microtransaction.
They can end up with the game that is a masterpiece in some parts and disappointment in other.