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zeuanimals

Member
Nov 23, 2017
1,454
And what they fucking want ain't reparations, the fucking white house, or whatever, it's just accountability, better vetting, and better training for cops. That's what the protesters are fighting for. If they fail today, that's not the end of the protests since that's not the end of the issue. As long as the problem persists, we'll get more protests later. You wanna stop the protests forever? Give them what they want.

It's funny, or sad, the police are literally fighting to not be held accountable.
 

Stop It

Bad Cat
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,352
And what they fucking want ain't reparations, the fucking white house, or whatever, it's just accountability, better vetting, and better training for cops. That's what the protesters are fighting for. If they fail today, that's not the end of the protests since that's not the end of the issue. As long as the problem persists, we'll get more protests later. You wanna stop the protests forever? Give them what they want.

It's funny, or sad, the police are literally fighting to not be held accountable.
Accountability is terrifying to the police force.

Because it means they'll actually have to do their jobs properly, answering to the people who they serve, rather than at their own discretion.

It needs to happen. Police impunity needs to end.
 

J_ToSaveTheDay

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
18,834
USA
Accountability is terrifying to the police force.

Because it means they'll actually have to do their jobs properly, answering to the people who they serve, rather than at their own discretion.

It needs to happen. Police impunity needs to end.

As someone who works with police, this is exactly true.

They're only worried about losing their power to be the definitive representation of law and order, however fucked up the root of that law and order is (systemic racism). The strength to make the law unbending to outside will and the absolute authority in society.

I'm hearing of cops wanting to quit because of the limit of power they'll have if things change. Not because they disagree with how policing works and have a moral or ethical dilemma with it.
 

Arkanim94

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,124
The entire poluce force would probably be in jail with all the shit they have done in the past years.
 

EVIL

Senior Concept Artist
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,783
Pretty sure they want the police dissolved/no police.
dissolve and rebuild
There is place for police to uphold law and order for everybody equally when its built on a foundation that is not from the times of slavery.
I don't think reform is possible with the same foundations. You cant suddenly force racist cops to not be racist.



the fact that a cop who had about 2 violations of excessive force each month for a total of 79 in his 3.5 year career is still allowed to roam the streets and police is ridiculous. It doesn't meant its just a bad cop, it means the system that allows him to still have a job after so many violations is rotten to the core.
 

Quzar

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,166
Pretty sure they want the police dissolved/no police.
Although it's ideal, it's not possible under capitalism. You'll get some weak "reform" that doesn't really do anything since cops don't play by the rules anyways. Police are necessary to protect property under capitalism. The alternatives are either no capitalism, or some truly awful shit like private police forces. I'm for police abolition btw.
 
OP
OP
zeuanimals

zeuanimals

Member
Nov 23, 2017
1,454
Although it's ideal, it's not possible under capitalism. You'll get some weak "reform" that doesn't really do anything since cops don't play by the rules anyways. Police are necessary to protect property under capitalism. The alternatives are either no capitalism, or some truly awful shit like private police forces. I'm for police abolition btw.

I don't see the positives of having absolutely no police. A full reformation, sure, but that's not gonna happen. But you mind explaining?
 

Quzar

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
1,166
I don't see the positives of having absolutely no police. A full reformation, sure, but that's not gonna happen. But you mind explaining?
Explaining which part? There's a police abolition thread somewhere in OT if you're interesting in learning more about it. There's also a free e-book on police abolition currently available here: https://www.versobooks.com/books/2426-the-end-of-policing

Link to Abolition OT: https://www.resetera.com/threads/prison-and-police-abolition-resources-and-discussion-ot.188388/
 

McScroggz

The Fallen
Jan 11, 2018
5,973
I do wonder what reasonably could happen to achieve this. As shitty as it sounds what needs to happen at the bare minimum is something that is complicated and would take time, leadership and a lot of local politicians and police chiefs working things out and I don't see that as remotely possible within the time frame of protesting still occurring. That what sucks, because as much as I'd be proud for these protest to continue for weeks just as strong and there would be genuine, lasting changes nationally I feel like it will just fizzle out and we will all be left hoping we scared them enough to do something.
 

Copper

Banned
Nov 13, 2017
666
I don't see the positives of having absolutely no police. A full reformation, sure, but that's not gonna happen. But you mind explaining?

In theory, with no concept of property, there's no need for police. This is how primitive , pre-civilization (i really dislike the connotation of the word, but for brevity's sake) society humans worked and still work, or how primitive animal societies work. There are no cops in the animal kingdom because animals have no property, they're extremely "equal" societies. The issue is not that it doesn't work (there are still pre-civilization human societies to this day, after all) it's just that their fitness or overall reward in the world is low. An organized society that accept concept of property and law will quickly overcome all other non-organized forms of living and multiply (and this is exactly why society in 10000 years expanded to levels unthinkable over the 100k + years pre-civilizations humans, with the ability to oppress your non-organized neighbours for resources as crucial for propagation/fitness).

In a structured society, you need some sort of negative reward functions for someone who break the organization and the laws, which theoretically are designed to optimize the fitness of the group (but as someone once said, a good reward measure cease to be the moment it is a target, so laws have to be constantly changing for that).
Else it would become an optimal strategy for some people to just screw other people for their own gains (and if you argue that's already true, i guess it probably is, but for different reasons, aka the inevitable degradation of the reward measure once it became a target). As an example, in the animal kingdom, killing pups and weaker opposing males is a common strategy because there's no drawback for your own potential rewards.

Modern society has also the huge issue that there's competition between states, not only citizens. So a state that had no deterrent (military/economic) force would be able to be overwhelmed, either militarly, or economically, if it were to declare itself against all kind of violence or protection of property. You'd essentially become a small city state in the face of an overwhelming nation superpower. There are examples, sadly, right now in the world.
 

nelsonroyale

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,128
And what they fucking want ain't reparations, the fucking white house, or whatever, it's just accountability, better vetting, and better training for cops. That's what the protesters are fighting for. If they fail today, that's not the end of the protests since that's not the end of the issue. As long as the problem persists, we'll get more protests later. You wanna stop the protests forever? Give them what they want.

It's funny, or sad, the police are literally fighting to not be held accountable.

I think you are underselling this, and assuming all protestors want the same things in terms of policy answers. I don't think it is as simple as you suggest. But I do thinnk they should abosutely give in to the many demands, mostly because those demands relate to improving things for most reasonable people. More accountable policing and more consequence to police criminality, investment in deprived areas, more investment in education in deprived areas, gun control...

I think you can say this on any issue though. Don't assume we are protesting against reasonable people. They aren't fucking reasonable, that is why it gets to this. And if we push hard enough, sure they will make some concessions but not likely enough. That is why we continually have to go through with this. Not because we want to, but because there are some genuine cunts in the world, and then a lot of people who despite providing vocal support for issues, aren't willing to support what needs to be done to fundamentally address the issue.
 

APOEERA

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,065
While I agree that police accountability and reforms would work, I almost wonder if local cities/counties would have a problem with it and block the reforms needed. They would cite their cities/counties as being "we have good cops here!" even though the problem is systemic racism.

Dissolving a police force would lead to a wealthy (i.e. wealthy old white) person or people creating their own security force, hiring back the police and have them employed as 'the town's security force.' They would attempt to enforce the laws, even though they are private citizens working for a company to enforce them.

It's not just police accountability and reforms, it's reducing budgets for police departments. Why the hell does a police department need riot gear and enough weapons to serve as an operating military for a city?
 
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VariantX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,890
Columbia, SC
And what they fucking want ain't reparations, the fucking white house, or whatever, it's just accountability, better vetting, and better training for cops. That's what the protesters are fighting for. If they fail today, that's not the end of the protests since that's not the end of the issue. As long as the problem persists, we'll get more protests later. You wanna stop the protests forever? Give them what they want.

It's funny, or sad, the police are literally fighting to not be held accountable.

That sill wouldn't be enough, that just helps ensure that the new crop of officers going forward would be better trained at their jobs, but it doesn't root out the rampant white supremacy element currently existing within law enforcement today. These people need to be straight up purged and kept out of both law enforcement and the military branches.
 

Deleted member 6949

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,786
We want police to be held accountable when they break the law like any other human being. I don't understand why it's so much to ask for.
 

EVIL

Senior Concept Artist
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,783
That sill wouldn't be enough, that just helps ensure that the new crop of officers going forward would be better trained at their jobs, but it doesn't root out the rampant white supremacy element currently existing within law enforcement today. These people need to be straight up purged and kept out of both law enforcement and the military branches.
this.. its this MURICA additude, US (white people) vs Them, minorities, and the rest of the world, which is ingrained in all forms of law enforcement or militarization. Its this bizarre thought, that the great people who build the land of the free was done by the true white american nation trough hard work, will to win and money, and everybody else just holds them back with their crime and their poverty.

and its a bastardization that has replaced actual history and culture by white people with power.
 

EdibleKnife

Member
Oct 29, 2017
7,723
As long as white supremacy in the states is at risk, stopping the protesters by giving even the simplest allowance will never be worth it to the people who benefit from the white supremacist system. There's a reason they always try to change the narrative to property damage or how protesters make MLK's ghost sad. Because they have to use whatever ounce of BS they can to justify the status quo or criticize the overzealous or unreasonableness of marginalized groups' search for equality.
 

EVIL

Senior Concept Artist
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,783
I am already slowly seeing the issue being ignored now there is a lack of rioting. ... the movement is self correcting itself to be peaceful and not loot, destroy or riot and to protest in a way they can be ignored. soon its gonna be a footnote, and main media is gonna portray how amazing the cops are in keeping the protesters under control. I am not pro violence, but I have a hard time to see how just standing in front of a fence and be peaceful and peacefully resisting curfew is really gonna do a lot.