• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

cabelhigh

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,726
Hi all,

After a long time stuck at a 1080p TV, I recently upgraded to 4k in my living room. Problem is, I only have the base consoles, and the only thing that can output that resolution is my PC, which is in a different room. I really want to have a way to play games in the living room from the PC, since it's just a more comfortable environment. What's the best way to do this? The TV comes with Roku, but in the research I've done, it doesn't seem like Steam Link is available on it. (I have Epic games that I want to play on it as well, besides).

So what are some good ways to get the PC to output to a TV in a different room? Thanks!
 

BeI

Member
Dec 9, 2017
5,985
Is there any possibility of moving the PC / putting a cable in the wall? Streaming isn't nearly as good as a direct HDMI connection, imo.
 

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
Bring PC to living room.

Get a wireless keyboard.

Get a wireless mouse.

Get a wireless controller for the games you want to play on PC with controller.

When you gotta deal with sound systems in your TV it's an added layer, but the above is your best option.

At 4K? A long ass cable. Steam Link only outputs 1080p anyway.

OP I would check on prices as I'm fairly certain the bump of price is ridiculous for 4K HDMI cables after a certain threshold. it's more economically viable to move the PC.
 

Issen

Member
Nov 12, 2017
6,822
Take your PC to the living room, plug it in directly to your TV.

Use a Logitech K400+ for general use and an xbox one controller + windows 10 wireless xbox controller adapter for gaming.

Alternatively get a lap desk, mouse mat and a wireless kbm combo (will probably need a compact or tenkeyless keyboard for it to be comfortable, it works great for me).
 
OP
OP
cabelhigh

cabelhigh

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,726
Damn, consensus seems to be to 'move the PC'. Not really viable with my current set-up but might be possible.

If I'm aiming for 1080p streaming, is SteamLink the best bet? What about NVIDIA Shield? Don't know much about it, it just came up as a streaming alternative, that isn't tied to a platform like Steam is
 

ss_lemonade

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,661
Are you able to run gigabit ethernet between rooms. If so, a Shield TV should get you there.

Is there any possibility of moving the PC / putting a cable in the wall? Streaming isn't nearly as good as a direct HDMI connection, imo.
I honestly can't tell the difference anymore between streaming to my Shield TV and native, unless I stream wirelessly. Once wired, I'm able to max out bitrates (150 Mbps with Moonlight) and it literally looks like native to me with no hiccups.

Actually, the one difference I can tell is a small reduction in performance. Even with a 1080 Ti and a 3700x, some games still perform a little bit slower when streaming. Only really noticeable when benchmarking though since I still regularly hit 60+ fps with that setup
 
Dec 20, 2017
1,094
If you don't want to move your gaming PC to the living room for some reason you can try moonlight with both a wired PC and tv if you've got an Android TV. If that's not good enough just run a HDMI cable to it.
 
OP
OP
cabelhigh

cabelhigh

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,726
Are you able to run gigabit ethernet between rooms. If so, a Shield TV should get you there.

Ah, so for streaming, it really should be a wired connection? I gave SteamLink a test on my phone and seemed to work great, but it was, uh, my phone, so probably not a big resource hog.

Not trying to play any competitve games, btw.
 

Bradford

terminus est
Member
Aug 12, 2018
5,423
I'd just move the PC into the living room and get a lapboard and a wireless keyboard/mouse.

I use a Corsair K93 lapboard for my living room PC. Simple problem begets a simple solution.

With the 30 series coming out soon you'll be able to bat in the 4k range just fine as well, so there's no real issue just having a dedicated livingroom setup.
 
Dec 20, 2017
1,094
Ok, this moonlight? It's free and open-source -- what's the catch? Is it just a pain to set up?
Yup that's it, just be sure to follow the setup instructions and you'll be fine. It's actually really easy to set up and hooks into the Nvidia gamestream so you get super low latency streaming.

And if it's not good enough, you're not out anything for trying it at least.
 

Rex_DX

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,336
Boston, MA, United States
cabelhigh is it feasible to run a 25-ft 4K HDMI cord? That's pretty much the max for a good signal/ price for the cable. Anything longer will involve using signal repeaters and possible loss of signal or reduction in quality.

This is what I do and it works flawlessly once you're set up. Even if it means putting a little hole through a wall it's MUCH better than streaming for me.
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,314
If you mean 4K via HDMI 2.1, prepare to spend a ton on a cable. Anything great than 10 feet can set up back $100+.
 

BeI

Member
Dec 9, 2017
5,985
Are you able to run gigabit ethernet between rooms. If so, a Shield TV should get you there.


I honestly can't tell the difference anymore between streaming to my Shield TV and native, unless I stream wirelessly. Once wired, I'm able to max out bitrates (150 Mbps with Moonlight) and it literally looks like native to me with no hiccups.

Actually, the one difference I can tell is a small reduction in performance. Even with a 1080 Ti and a 3700x, some games still perform a little bit slower when streaming. Only really noticeable when benchmarking though since I still regularly hit 60+ fps with that setup

Maybe some people are more sensitive to it, but I could immediately see and feel the difference from reduced image quality and increased latency, along with artifacting. Any option to get a direct HDMI connection would still be best, imo, and any streaming only a compromise.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,367

Brad Shoemaker of Giant Bomb and Will Smith of Tested/FooVR fame have a podcast, and they talk about game streaming in the latest episode. Give it a listen.

Anyways, you have a few options that I'll try to rank in order of the fidelity/quality of experience along with a few brief notes on each:

  1. Plug the TV into your PC. This is what I do now. The desk with my PC and monitor is adjacent to my television, and I use a 30-35ft Premium Certified HDMI cable to pipe 4K HDR 60fps goodness into my TCL 6 series (2018). I use a wireless Xbox One controller (using MSFT's dongle) along with a simple keyboard/touchpad combo. I use the television when possible, but since my desk is nearby I can easily swap back to a typical keyboard and mouse and monitor set up (which is at the desk). Sometimes things are a little finnicky with 2 displays, but Steam Big Picture has a setting that will automatically make Display #2 (TV) the primary display when it's active. This solves all of my problems.
  2. Stream from your PC to your TV. The best BEST option is another PC hooked up to your TV (haha), but that kind of defeats the purpose. The next best option for this is going to be the Nvidia Shield TV, assuming you also have an Nvidia graphics card. The Shield is one of the only devices that can decode 4K resolution. You need to have both the host and client wired for this to be a good experience (especially if you want 4K + HDR). Even then, doing this at 4K is not going to be super practical. You can use Nvidia's built-in Shield tech to do the streaming, or try Moonlight. I've been using Moonlight on another PC from my primary one lately, and at 1440p@60fps with the bit rate maxed out it is flawless. I have heard that Moonlight also supports HDR but I have yet to try this myself (since my PC is already connected to the only HDR capable display I own). If you can't get a Shield TV, I have heard that the Raspberry Pi 4 can run a Moonlight client relatively well (but you'll have to investigate whether it can handle 4K or not, and at what frame rate). Steam Link can also run Moonlight (or just the Steam Link software) but it's capped at 1080p I believe.
Unless you have some radical space issues, or some really crazy need to keep your PC in a room other than your TV, you really want to just plug them in directly, especially if 4K gaming is your goal here.
 

exodus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,952
Damn, consensus seems to be to 'move the PC'. Not really viable with my current set-up but might be possible.

If I'm aiming for 1080p streaming, is SteamLink the best bet? What about NVIDIA Shield? Don't know much about it, it just came up as a streaming alternative, that isn't tied to a platform like Steam is

Listen to the latest podcast episode of Brad & Will Made A Techpod. They talk exactly about this.

tl;dr cheapest option is to get a Raspberry Pi and use Moonlight. You'll want your wired internet (at least to your PC) for a decent connection, though.

Though personally if you can stretch it the Shield is pretty sweet.
 

ss_lemonade

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,661
Ok, this moonlight? It's free and open-source -- what's the catch? Is it just a pain to set up?
It only works with Nvidia GPUs (forgot to mention that with the Shield TV suggestion).

I've tried Steam Link before through my Shield TV and it didn't work as well as native gamestream at 4k. Plus, some games would exhibit weird glitches like visual bugs and streaming framerate drops. Controller support can also be a problem through Steam Link with games outside of Steam. Nvidia Gamestream gets around the controller thing by literally making your computer think you have a 360 controller plugged in, so it works fine even with games from other launchers.
 

Lexxon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
83
I'm in the exact same boat. Just purchased a Sony X900H and Moonlight works great--up to 1440p. After that, there's too much input lag, I assume the processor can't decode fast enough. I had hope since the X900H has the best processor out of any Android TV set currently released, to my knowledge, but it's no tegra.

For those with a Shield TV, does it actually work for 4k? I was hoping to maybe hold off for a potential 2021 model with HDMI 2.1, if GameStream/Moonlight can even push 4K/120 with a tegra?
 
OP
OP
cabelhigh

cabelhigh

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,726
cabelhigh is it feasible to run a 25-ft 4K HDMI cord? That's pretty much the max for a good signal/ price for the cable. Anything longer will involve using signal repeaters and possible loss of signal or reduction in quality.

This is what I do and it works flawlessly once you're set up. Even if it means putting a little hole through a wall it's MUCH better than streaming for me.

Not sure the feasibility -- even with a hole in the wall it would need to bypass 2 doors in order to keep out of a space where people could trip over it.

Tho, Ive been playing a lot of Satisfactory, so my brain is now used to trying to connect cables in efficient but weird ways lol. So maybe it could work.

In any case, the replies on this thread have let me know that I need to do A LOT more planning of exactly how im going to get this done
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,367
Maybe some people are more sensitive to it, but I could immediately see and feel the difference from reduced image quality and increased latency, along with artifacting. Any option to get a direct HDMI connection would still be best, imo, and any streaming only a compromise.

I'm definitely very picky about this stuff, but yesterday I was able to get Moonlight running on a client PC (i7 4770k, GTX 980) while my other PC was hosting (Ryzen 3600, RTX 2080) and I could not spot a single artifact at 1440p60fps. It was incredible. I was able to play Sekiro and nail timings for parries, dodges, etc.

Some background: I had the Moonlight client set to 2560x1440 60fps, v-sync enabled, optimize game settings for streaming OFF, and video decoder set to force hardware decoding. Unfortunately the GTX 980 doesn't support H.265, so I had the codec set to Automatic. Bit rate is set to maximum, which was about 150 Mbps. The client is upstairs and connected via Cat 6 Ethernet to a Netgear Orbi satellite, and the host is downstairs also connected via Cat 6 Ethernet but to the Orbi router. So technically this is wireless connection, but in name only since we're talking about a backhaul channel that nothing else is on.

Edit: I should add that some games seem optimized for this, and others not so much. I don't understand why this is. For example, Sekiro looked flawless. Text was crisp, detail was immaculate. However when I launched Horizon Zero Dawn it looked like such a blurry mess that I thought either my connection was bogged down or the resolution target was off - but it wasn't. So cabelhigh just know that YMMV with some games over a streaming solution. Some won't look as good as others, and others may not work at all. This is why a direct connection to your PC is the best bet.
 

ss_lemonade

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,661
I'm definitely very picky about this stuff, but yesterday I was able to get Moonlight running on a client PC (i7 4770k, GTX 980) while my other PC was hosting (Ryzen 3600, RTX 2080) and I could not spot a single artifact at 1440p60fps. It was incredible. I was able to play Sekiro and nail timings for parries, dodges, etc.

Some background: I had the Moonlight client set to 2560x1440 60fps, v-sync enabled, optimize game settings for streaming OFF, and video decoder set to force hardware decoding. Unfortunately the GTX 980 doesn't support H.265, so I had the codec set to Automatic. Bit rate is set to maximum, which was about 150 Mbps. The client is upstairs and connected via Cat 6 Ethernet to a Netgear Orbi satellite, and the host is downstairs also connected via Cat 6 Ethernet but to the Orbi router. So technically this is wireless connection, but in name only since we're talking about a backhaul channel that nothing else is on.

Edit: I should add that some games seem optimized for this, and others not so much. I don't understand why this is. For example, Sekiro looked flawless. Text was crisp, detail was immaculate. However when I launched Horizon Zero Dawn it looked like such a blurry mess that I thought either my connection was bogged down or the resolution target was off - but it wasn't. So cabelhigh just know that YMMV with some games over a streaming solution. Some won't look as good as others, and others may not work at all. This is why a direct connection to your PC is the best bet.
It was a revelation for me after I figured out a way to run a long ethernet cable between the necessary rooms. 4k60 was flawless @ 150Mbps even without using H.265 and I have yet to run into a game with streaming issues. Actually, H.265 has a weird bug for me where it seems like resolution gets affected and sharpening artifacts appear around text and objects. Not sure why it happens and why I can't seem to find any reference of this bug anywhere on the internet so I end up just force disabling it and sticking with H.264 (which can only be done through Moonlight). I lose out on HDR, but Assassin's Creed Odyssey is the only game I have where HDR works since all my other HDR-compatible games rely on Windows' HDR toggle which is only accessible if the host PC/monitor is also HDR compatible :(
 

Minsc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,124
You can buy a 100' Fiber Optic 4k HDMI cable from Cable Matters off Amazon right now for under $100. It's going to be your best solution as long as you're not after 120hz @ 4k.
 

dtcm83

Member
Oct 28, 2017
533
You can buy a 100' Fiber Optic 4k HDMI cable from Cable Matters off Amazon right now for under $100. It's going to be your best solution as long as you're not after 120hz @ 4k.
Yup, fiber HDMI eliminates the short length limitations of copper HDMI and it doesn't cost that much, and streaming tech currently cannot compete with a wired HDMI connection. I bought a 50ft cable for 60 bucks a couple months ago. Grab a wireless KB+M and/or a wireless controller and you are set.
 

BennyWhatever

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,801
US
If you go the Streaming route, definitely try to use wired ethernet. 5GHz Wifi is... ok but not great. Game streaming does not work with 2.4GHz.

Also if you go that route and get a Shield TV, it'll be tempting to use GameStream on the Shield, since that's the product made by NVidia (this is all assuming you have an NVidia graphics card in your PC as well). Don't use GameStream on the Shield - get Moonlight. It's a better app in virtually every way. You set up your games in GeForce Experience on your PC, then install Moonlight on your Shield, and they take you through the configuration setup in the Moonlight app. It's pretty intuitive and easy to set up.
 

Lion

Banned
Jul 7, 2020
593
I have a hdmi wall socket either end of my house and a hdmi cable running under the floorboards. I installed it all myself. It was not easy, but was worth it!
 

blitzblake

Banned
Jan 4, 2018
3,171
Wonder how everyone here deals with the ergonomics of wireless kb/m on the couch? Where you putting your mouse pad? What's supporting your elbows/arms?
 

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,028
  1. Move the PC
  2. HDBaseT (zero-lag video, audio, usb, and power over Ethernet)
  3. HDMI and USB extensions
  4. Wired streaming devices
The real issue is if you need HDMI 2.1 support.
Long HDMI 2.1 cables that can actually do 48 gbps are going to be difficult to find, thick and unwieldy, and expensive.
Fiber cables which avoid some of those issues are going to be even more expensive.

If you have Ethernet wired up between the two locations, I would recommend HDBaseT rather than purchasing a streaming device. It's a far higher quality, and more convenient solution.
I use an HDBaseT adapter to connect to my 1080p120 projector over a thin, flat, white Ethernet cable which is easy to hide, and the experience has been identical to if I had moved the PC into that room and connected it directly via HDMI.
I haven't seen HDBaseT solutions for anything more than 18gbps yet though.

And I can't say that it's been perfect, as the USB hub on mine died on me last night - it's started resetting USB devices every few minutes which makes it unusable for playing games (but still fine for watching movies).
I've probably just been unlucky though, and was offered a refund since it's less than a year old.
I'm a little bit hesitant about buying a replacement of the same model though, as it is not a solution which will extend beyond 1080p120/4K60 - and there are now 4K120 TVs and 1080p240 projectors available.

Streaming devices add latency and noticeably reduce the quality - even if you increase the bit-rates.
It's great for mobile devices like tablets, phones, or laptops, but not something I'd want to use with a TV/home theater setup.
The latency is not a lot, but can be noticeable if you're sensitive to it. For me, it's the loss of image quality that had me seeking alternatives (HDBaseT).
It also eats some of your performance, and is another potential headache if the client doesn't want to work right - so you have to go through to the PC and reset something to make it work. Or sometimes the streaming will be choppy for no apparent reason, because that one game doesn't play nice with it.
HDBaseT just acts like another display connected directly to the PC, and I used keyboard shortcusts in DisplayFusion to switch between the desktop and projector setups (switches monitors, sets them to the correct resolution, and changes sound devices) - so it's one less thing to go wrong, outside of a hardware failure.
I also ran into the problem where Steam Link originally worked at 120 FPS on the iPad Pro, but then some update broke that and it's been 60 FPS ever since. I'm not sure whether that's been fixed yet - haven't tested it in a while.

Yup, fiber HDMI eliminates the short length limitations of copper HDMI and it doesn't cost that much, and streaming tech currently cannot compete with a wired HDMI connection. I bought a 50ft cable for 60 bucks a couple months ago. Grab a wireless KB+M and/or a wireless controller and you are set.
Most of the affordable "fiber HDMI" cables are copper with four fiber cables for sync, rather than true fiber cables.
That means they're just as bulky and inflexible as any other low gauge copper HDMI cable - and they're all black too - so they're not easy to hide away.

Wonder how everyone here deals with the ergonomics of wireless kb/m on the couch? Where you putting your mouse pad? What's supporting your elbows/arms?
Corsair K63 lapboard paired with a Logitech mouse.
indexvfkki.jpg


It's the only wireless solution I could find that had a reasonable size mousing area.
Most other products on the market seem to use a long USB cable, and I did not want that. I wanted something I could put away in a drawer and not have to deal with any cable setup.
The only wireless alternative I found was the Razer Turret. The v1 was a much slicker solution with a laptop keyboard and a folding design, but the mousing area was far too small. The v2 has a mechanical keyboard with a slide-out tray for the mouse, which is still small, and flimsy.
 

alr1ght

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,053
Make sure your controllers are able to sync with your PC where your main TV will be, otherwise you'll have to run some type of USB extension + adapter. I'm hoping the next gen controllers are BT5, which would eliminate that problem for most.
 

Stuggernaut

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,905
Seattle, WA, USA
Pretty much everything people are saying here... jokingly I could say put a PS4/5 or XBX into an old PC case and pretend... but ... well I guess I am making that joke!

Seriously though, another vote for fiber HDMI, it works great.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,367
You can buy a 100' Fiber Optic 4k HDMI cable from Cable Matters off Amazon right now for under $100. It's going to be your best solution as long as you're not after 120hz @ 4k.

Holy crap, I didn't even know about these. I've just been using a thick-ass copper cable. Is there a minimum bend radius on this sort of cable? You probably want to make sure you get the run just right without any excess, to avoid that.

So what are some ways to get 4k working at 120fps on existing 18 Gbps cables? I've heard of people dropping color space to 4:2:0 without much trouble to stay within bandwidth limitations.

Realistically even with a 3080 I'm going to struggle to hit 4k120fps in most games, and those that can do it probably won't have HDR support anyway. Maybe I'll just have to test and see?
 

Minsc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,124
Holy crap, I didn't even know about these. I've just been using a thick-ass copper cable. Is there a minimum bend radius on this sort of cable? You probably want to make sure you get the run just right without any excess, to avoid that.

So what are some ways to get 4k working at 120fps on existing 18 Gbps cables? I've heard of people dropping color space to 4:2:0 without much trouble to stay within bandwidth limitations.

Realistically even with a 3080 I'm going to struggle to hit 4k120fps in most games, and those that can do it probably won't have HDR support anyway. Maybe I'll just have to test and see?

Fiber Optic is vastly superior to Copper cabling. I tried a 25' copper cable once - Amazon Basic - quickly returned it. It weighed like 4 lbs and was 1" thick, felt like it was going to rip the HDMI ports off my TV and laptop. The fiber optic one can be bent any which way and is thinner than ever short normal HDMI cables.

Here's some testing and more info on the formats.
 

dyne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
406
Vancouver
For those with a Shield TV, does it actually work for 4k? I was hoping to maybe hold off for a potential 2021 model with HDMI 2.1, if GameStream/Moonlight can even push 4K/120 with a tegra?
Yes, it works great. However I have an ultrawide, and my 4K TV is not - so it's letterboxed for me unless I set up properly


60Hz max for now. Same as HDMI 2.0 standards. You won't see 4K past 60 until 2.1-ready devices, yeah.

support-shield.nvidia.com

NVIDIA SHIELD TV 4K HDR

The best streaming media device today with all the amazing features.

By default the Resolution is set to Auto. You can force GameStream to one of the following modes.

· *2160p@60Hz (4K)

· *2160p@30Hz (4K)

· 1080p@60Hz

· 1080p@30Hz

· 720p@60Hz

· 720p@30Hz

* Requires Maxwell based GeForce GTX based GPU or higher
 

gozu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,354
America
If PC room and TV room are adjacent, some furniture re-arranging and a small hole in the base of the wall between them to pass HDMI cable would do the trick cheaply and robustly,
 

Lump

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,037
Shield TV is the answer, if running Ethernet from the PC to the router and from the router to the Shield. Games play great.
 

Applesaucejaxon

Uncle actually worked at Nintendo
Member
Oct 29, 2017
349
Chicago
I have a monstrosity of a HDMI cable that I run from my office to my living room TV when my wife isn't home. That does the trick for me.
 

Applesaucejaxon

Uncle actually worked at Nintendo
Member
Oct 29, 2017
349
Chicago
Fiber Optic is vastly superior to Copper cabling. I tried a 25' copper cable once - Amazon Basic - quickly returned it. It weighed like 4 lbs and was 1" thick, felt like it was going to rip the HDMI ports off my TV and laptop. The fiber optic one can be bent any which way and is thinner than ever short normal HDMI cables.

Here's some testing and more info on the formats.
Wow, I never knew this was a thing. Might be time to upgrade.
 

Rosol

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,397
I run my PC through a 25 ft HDMI, just make sure you get a good cable, something like this is what I use. If you don't get the right cables you'll get issues connecting/ black flickering or unable to connect. You probably need 1080ti or higher spec for a videocard to push most games in 4k. I also got a keyboard/mouse like this - which you'll need just to navigate windows. I use a PS4 controller paired with one of these . I run a usb extension with the usb dongle for it, though it still works through the wall ok. PCs tend to get loud when at full boar so it's best to have it in the other room. Used to keep my ps4 pro in the other room for similar reasons. Don't try streaming unless you don't plan on doing 4k, the performance penalty is too great.
 

wiggler

Member
Oct 27, 2017
473
I think the Steam Link app on a Raspberry Pi 4 supports 4K60 now?

Just checked, experimental support since build 1.1.61.145.