How surprising was MGS2’s Raiden surprise really?

[Love Machine]

I was surprised, especially when I picked "I haven't played MGS1" at the start and it threw me straight into the Plant mission.

Getting the Tanker mission as a kind of epilogue was actually pretty cool. I was never that enamored with Snake to warrant any feelings of resentment towards the game or its marketing. (Although that's not to say that I loved Raiden, either...)

 

[Azel]

i was 13 and my older brother bought zone of the enders for the demo, and we happily thought that was the whole game, and both of us were pissed when we got the full game. sure it was subversive and aged better with time, but we were both mad until snake eater

 

[Crushed]

Fun fact about the Japanese version of MGS2:

-Raiden's voice was much deeper (and closer to Snake's); because of that, when he's wearing the dive mask at the start and his voice is muffled, the player might not immediately tell it's a different person (unlike in English, where Quinton Flynn is very obviously not David Hayter).
-Solidus's Japanese VA is Akio Otsuka, who you probably know as Snake's VA (both Solid and Big Boss [outside of MGS4]) to further make things more ambiguous (and also makes the fact that Solidus is pretending to be Solid a bit more plausible).

 

[Nacho]

Very because at the time, leaks and spoilers were not as bad as today

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I still remember Rogue Squadron having a secret naboo starfighter in it, that they kept hidden until the movie came out. THat shit can't happen today, and if they did it'd just be DLC so it didn't get leaked through the code.

 

[DJtal]

You're overestimating the internet in 2001.

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We already had boards like this back in the days with thread starting with a warning [56K - No No]...

There was a solid, pun intended, outrage in the board I was on at that time. People felt cheated lol.

 

[Roven]

Played it years later and still had no idea

 

[UnluckyKate]

First time playing MGS : knew NOTHING about it expect it features a burly Snake man and starts on a tanker at night.

Menu asks me if I played MGS 1. No.

Game starts with a blonde dude in an sunny orange big shell.

WTF.

I couldn't understand anything about the game, story, gameplay, infiltration what is that concept ?

I hated it.

Played MGS1 twin snakes years later; loved it. Back to MGS2 Oh my god my brain I'm not worthy of such a master piece MGS3 the feels Kojima is a god

 

[Zarathustra]

It was quite shocking at the time. We're talking about the highly-expected sequel of one of the best games on PS1, people were looking to play as a high-res Solid Snake and all promotional footage was from the tanker mission. Internet was not a standard for many people and countries out there, and many publications decided not to spoil what was happening, choosing not to include any pictures of Raiden in their pages.

I still liked the game, but I remember I was expecting to change over to Snake any minute now while running around the Big Shell.

 

[TheMadTitan]

I was shocked, but not that shocked. I didn't follow any of the promo stuff or trailers. I just saw one that that there was another Metal Gear Solid coming out; refreshed myself by beating MGS1 a few more times, and then dove right into it.

So when Snake died, and Raiden showed up, I was shocked that Snake died, but I wasn't disappointed in Raiden. Then Snake came back, and I couldn't play him and got disappointed, but it still didn't remove the game from my top 10 list, even back then.

 

[tatwo]

I started playing mgs2 from tanker mission. Didn't get to finish it. Next day my friend came over and wanted to play it too. So he started new game and skipped tanker mission and went straight for the big shell.... I was so confused why his new game was all different.

 

[RecLib]

I played the MGS games more recently. I'm pretty sure I knew about the Raiden thing before hand, just through internet osmosis, but I had forgotten it when I actually sat down to play the games.

I don't know if this is too much of a "hot take" but Snake wasn't that great a character anyway; He just felt like generic action movie cool guy. While I think mgs2 was kind of bad, Raiden wasn't the reason for it being bad. I was not bothered by the switch of protagonist.

 

[terawatt]

There was tons of outrage on the forums back then, I remember MGS2 being the focal point in the ps2 vs dreamcast system wars and this was fuel in that fire.

 

[Murfield]

Even once I got over it, I found the tanker section was just a lot more fun than plant. There are a ton of cheap choke points and guard placements in plant. E and D block in particular.

 

[Ash735]

I'm still impressed by all the footage they faked, like the Harrier boss battle taking place on the bridge in New York, Snake having the FAMAS rifle in Tanker (though this was in the demo via cheats), etc.

 

[Hayeya]

I was on blackout, only seen the e3 and tgs trailers which only showed Solid snake.

2 days before release, i clicked by mistake on a frensh website that showed images of raiden playthrough, i thought that it was a 2nd playable character mode or something.

And then i played the game and my mind was blown.

 

[Basarili]

It came as a total surprise I was like 14/15 back then and internet was not used that much. After the first part ended and we started to play with Raiden I kept hoping another switch would come so that we could go back to snake. It never happened and one of the most dissapointing games ever for me.
I'm probably one of the very few Solid Snake fans. I prefer him instead of Big Boss.

 

[CodyV]

I didn't care. I liked MGS and wanted more of the gameplay and wild story. I got both. Playing as Raiden felt congruent to my expectations. Didn't know it was coming before I played the game in dec 2001, and when I was done I never thought it was abnormal. Loved the simulation bit.

 

[Nocturno]

Extremely. Leaks were not widespread. The marketing was very deceptive.

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Like Death Stranding.

 

[Deleted member 17643]

It was so surprising that it took me HOURS to finally accept that Raiden was who I was going to play as for the remainder of the game. I was in total denial. I think it actually hurt my enjoyment of the game significantly, and I intend to replay it someday with a clearer head.

 

[The Unsent]

Both of those were due to poor writing though not twists.

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That's not really my point. But to some people Raiden was bad writing because of Rose calling you about thier anniversary,
getting upset and Raiden's dorkiness 'We've managed to avoid drowning' My point was the internet can take it personally when a product doesn't mean their hype dreams and sometimes think they're owed something.

 

[Jegriva]

A big suprise. Not a positive one.

 

[Kain-Nosgoth]

it was a surprise, but i didn't care back then, i was 13 and i still loved the game

 

[Raonak]

extremely.

still waiting for the moment we switch back to snake ; _ ;

 

[Schlauchkopf]

Fun fact about the Japanese version of MGS2:

-Raiden's voice was much deeper (and closer to Snake's); because of that, when he's wearing the dive mask at the start and his voice is muffled, the player might not immediately tell it's a different person (unlike in English, where Quinton Flynn is very obviously not David Hayter).
-Solidus's Japanese VA is Akio Otsuka, who you probably know as Snake's VA (both Solid and Big Boss [outside of MGS4]) to further make things more ambiguous (and also makes the fact that Solidus is pretending to be Solid a bit more plausible).

Click to shrink...

There are a few more voice related shennanigans in the japanese Version. Like with the Cyborg Ninja, she quotes Grey Fox from the first game when introducing herself, as well as Donald Anderson when talking about the card key. In the japanese version instead of her just repeating these lines like she does in the english dub, distorted audio clips from the first game's original VA are played instead.

 

[daegan]

As others have said, it was just a different time, and nobody saw it coming. It was amazing and MGS2 is actually probably my favorite one, warts and all.

 

[Phil me in]

I hated it at first and I kept thinking it will switch back to snake at some point lol.

Even showed snake firing a famas in the tanker, even though you can't get a rifle in the tanker.

 

[Thera]

The web was in full swing by 2001

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Ha ha ha, no no.
The only way I watched the gameplay trailer was on a PC at high school.
The amazing intro / reveal? On a dedicated gaming channel.

 

[residentgrigo]

People who followed along knew that Raiden was in it but not in which role. Just another (masked) cyberpunk secret agent or something.
I knew what a bishōnen is in 2001 and was on the web (it wasn´t as primitive as people here make it out to be, even with my 56k) so I took him with stride and like that aspect of MGS2 and his journey in the sequels. I even had a poster of classic Raiden. The whole let´s remake MGS, in itself a remake of MG2: SS, but it intentionally bad is a big problem with the game on the other hand. It was my least favorite in the Solid series until V.

Snake -age 33 in MGS- was perceived as "old" by the Japanese player base and Kojima wanted to reach out to women with MGS2. That´s where Raiden -age 26- and the Titanic tie-ins came from. I have read multiple times that the Japanese press was open about him and easily believe it but can someone source that?

 

[Kyrios]

It was a huge surprise, I still remember so many friends and cousins who were all shocked after the Tanker mission ended lol

 

[ShinUltramanJ]

A huge surprise. We had plenty of previews of the games in magazines that featured nothing but Snake.

I wouldn't say the web was in full swing either. I was still getting my gaming news from magazines at that time.

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

I was very surprised, and initially even a little bit confused. Was not a fan of Raiden.

 

[Deleted member 41520]

It was like the Vader is Luke's father twist of video games. It was a really big deal, some people hated it and it was talked about in every magazine and on every forum.

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Decent comparison

 

[Lokimaster]

It was surprising as hell. I was a kid in middle school, and was so shocked when i started playing a character with blond hair, instead of snake. I for sure thought i would play as snake again before the game ended. it was crazy that there was no leaks.

 

[Deleted member 1003]

OP is overestimating the internet in 2001. As some said CVG spoiled it but I honestly don't think many people even believed it. The marketing was so effective and put Snake in literally every scene, including on the Big Shell.

It was the bigger con of it's time in gaming and could never be done again. Maybe the reveal in God of War 2018 would be close but Raiden swap will always be the king of deception.

 

[residentgrigo]

Now we are getting somewhere. The Japanese cover and the Korean cover:

They came out 2 weeks after the US launch. Us Europeans had to wait half a year and Raiden was a core aspect of reviews over here. Only the US got to experience the reveal.

 

[Ranma]

i was spoiled on usenet. Anyway, sitll loved it.

 

[dedge]

I think a friend had the game a bit before I did and mentioned Raiden but going back so far the specifics are fuzzy. Never had a problem with Raiden though and it remains one of my favorite games ever.

 

[Treasure Silvergun]

Biggest gripe I have with it is that the European version of the game asked you a question before the game even began. I don't remember the details, but I chose the "wrong" option and the game started in the plant with Raiden, skipping the tanker and the Snake segment completely. I was *extremely* confused and kept waiting to get control of Snake, only to realize -many hours later- that it wouldn't happen.

I didn't like MGS2 overall and I never made a secret of the fact that the game soured me on MGS ever since, not only for the Raiden thing but for a myriad of things about the game. Raiden was just an unrelatable character, even if he being the MC is obviously essential for the plot and the game's message to work as intended.

The secret was very well kept, and while I hate that people hail Kojima as some kind of genius, I do have to admit this: he knows people. He did play us all like a damn fiddle then.

 

[Mad_Titan86]

I was in denial as I was playing through it. I kept thinking "I must take over as Snake again at some point. He's (Pliskin) right there!" Years later I've grown to love Raiden through his story line.

 

[Plasma]

Already knew about it before it came out, the game released in the UK 4 months after the US release so I'd already read a bunch of reviews that spoiled it. Not that I minded being spoiled though, I think it made me appreciate the game for what it was rather than what I thought it should be.

 

[Nakenorm]

some kids in school spoiled it for me before I could buy it, even then I just thought they were being asses to me for not already owning it. Still took me by surprise when I actually got to play it.

 

[Biteren]

i hated it at first but it started to grow on me

 

[The Praiseworthy]

Back in 2001 with every trailer and magazine covering for Snake and then playing Raiden suddenly after the first hour or so.... I remember I kept waiting for the control to shift back to Snake.

Still to this day one of the biggest disappointment and backstab in gaming history.

No matter how much ending up liking Raiden, still... this is a MGS game and it's Snake game no one else... it's like a Tomb Raider game but without Lara Croft.

 

[Kwyjibo]

At the time.....it was confusing, I remember I kept expecting to be Snake again at some point into the game.....but it never happened and it was very disappointing.

But I still enjoyed the game as a whole despite this glaring hole in my satisfaction.

 

[Pagusas]

I loved how in the mgs3 intro he snuck a raiden mask in as a gag when Big Boss takes his helmet off after the halo jump. (I can't remember, did it do that if you had an mgs2 save file?)

 

[FantasticMrSnake]

It was a surprise to me, but didn't care too much, just a little disappointed on his personality and that we never go back to play snake

There was one big hint something was up.

Before the game came out (like at least a month before), the figures for the game showed up in stores, like this one:

It was unclear if this was a boss character or some kind of "Cyborg Ninja" redux, or what.

They were a little clever about it - the sticker on the bottom left is hiding the extra head piece for the figure with Raiden's exposed face (as he is in most of the game). I didn't actually see his face until I played the game.

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Never saw this before, very clever hiding the face.

 

[XaviConcept]

Leaks in 2001?

No, not really

Just because the internet was around it didn't mean the flow of information was the same as it is now. There wasnt a need for daily content, lots of people just waited for their EGM to show up.

It was almost 20 years ago. When I was a teen, "20 years ago" was the 1970s

 

[coldsagging]

Super confusing and surprising at the time and not in a good way. I was about 11 years old and MGS2 was completely baffling in many respects. I loved MGS1, LOVED Snake and despised Raiden with a passion for ages lol.

At the time of course. I think MGS2 is one of the best games ever made now.

 

[FlintSpace]

How many of you also hated (annoyed) on Halo 2 protagonist switch ?

 

[luther manhole]

i was like 12 and thought it was the coolest shit ever because im a sucker for dumb shit like that. still in my top 5 games of all time.