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GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,312
Imagine working for one if not the most prestigious French media outlet and being compared to Fox News.

Years of journalism school, wasted!

My problem comes from the fact VB didn't even check what they were saying and are even straight up lying.

I am not confortable with a thread defending this guy.

Especially when it's done in bad faith and lies.

this is pretty fucked up. nothing is resolved yet and we have an article (and the OP) trying to clear up cage's name and sweep the whole thing under the rug.


Nothing is resolved but when it comes to the court, they found QD guilty of violating their obligations of safety. And yes, the judge said the pictures were sexist and homophobic. But VB said the judge said the opposite lol.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,312
Ok given how wierd people are acting towards an article written by Dean Takahashi, Which I seem to remember writing as far back as EGM, Gamefan and others. I am really confused at what people are arguing as I put those articles through translator.

So in the venturebeat article it states



When putting that into context and looking at that article, even when translated it states



When now given the knowledge that if they lost the major points of the case it would have been €115,000, does it not seem that Cages claim about the cases being misleading have merit?



Not at all. Because the main demand was to requalify the resignation into a lay-off. But the ruling concluded to what people were complaining about: the homophobic racist sexist photos and the toxic environnement.

Basically Cage is all "But I didnt get a huge fine and the resignation wasn't requalified, so nth happened".
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
Nothing is resolved but when it comes to the court, they found QD guilty of violating their obligations of safety. And yes, the judge said the pictures were sexist and homophobic. But VB said the judge said the opposite lol.
exactly. and even ignoring the article, this part of the OP is just messy.
Honestly QD handled things very much professionally, IMO. It was very clear that something was wrong with the way the story was being reported what with how every decision surrounding what made it to the court was favorable towards QD, but I suppose the intent was to make some sort of big exposé where there wasn't really anything illegal or abusive going on. In any case, it also seems the investigations and audits concluded that the company is actually a great place to work, so I hope this can be put behind since this is one of the best studios out there.
 

Staticneuron

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,187
Not at all. Because the main demand was to requalify the resignation into a lay-off. But the ruling concluded to what people were complaining about: the homophobic racist sexist photos and the toxic environnement.

Basically Cage is all "But I didnt get a huge fine and the resignation wasn't requalified, so nth happened".

Right but the venturebeat article did put the ruling on there. There are points in the article where it seems to be quoting other people but specfically

Quantic Dream had to pay the IT manager compensation of €5,000 ($5,572) because the court ruled that the company should have anticipated the potential risk of an employee editing pictures and should have prohibited this activity from the start

This is part of what is confusing me about people reaction to the article. They did mention what the court stated objectively but it seems like people are taking issue with what is being quoted in the article.

EDIT: Please understand me on this. I am just trying to figure out if people are reacting negatively to what is being said in the article or are people saying Dean Takahashi himself is actually lying putting his super long career and history on the line.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,312
Right but the venturebeat article did put the ruling on there. There are points in the article where it seems to be quoting other people but specfically



This is part of what is confusing me about people reaction to the article. They did mention what the court stated objectively but it seems like people are taking issue with what is being quoted in the article.

EDIT: Please understand me on this. I am just trying to figure out if people are reacting negatively to what is being said in the article or are people saying Dean Takahashi himself is actually lying putting his super long career and history on the line.



"The image had no specific angle (not homophobic, racist or misogynist, as the Labor Court confirmed), but it was definitely not acceptable," Cage said

I'm putting this part "(not homophobic, racist or misogynist, as the Labor Court confirmed)" on VB's account when they say that the Labor Court confirmed it.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,312
Also that part:
After the completion of one investigation, a French labor court cleared the company of the most serious accusations and any large financial liability related to them.

It didn't clear the company on the existence of those photos neither on the toxicity of the environnement. It didn't requalify the resignation but it acknowledged the existence of the situation.
 

Deleted member 2791

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,054
Again at this OP? How in the world can you look at yourself in the mirror and think it's ok to continue defending condemned racist and homophobes just because they happened to make some of the games you liked? It's fucking disgusting to read and especially when you've already been banned for showing this behaviour. Grow the fuck up.
 
OP
OP
Adamska

Adamska

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,042
It's interesting to me, yet not one bit impressive, that people are still outraged in regards to QD when the evidences (dismissal of the 'toxic culture' allegations by the court, internal investigations and audits by third parties not finding evidence of wrongdoing, employees accounts that explicitly state that no one found QD's management to be abusive) all point to the company actually treating its employees fairly and having taking significant measures to handle the fallout of the actions of a few employees who, so far, have had their claims dismissed by the labor court. It seems, also, few people are willing to entertain the possibility that the reporting of issue was 'faulty', if not heavily biased, even when, again, the show that the 'toxic culture' they described wasn't real. I will say that what QD has so far is commendable, in terms of their fierce defense against allegations that so far haven't 'stuck' against them and fostering a good environment for their employees, since most companies would've simply tried to settle the matte quietly and people outside wouldn't have much assurance of whether they situation for their employees would've improved or not.
EDIT: Please understand me on this. I am just trying to figure out if people are reacting negatively to what is being said in the article or are people saying Dean Takahashi himself is actually lying putting his super long career and history on the line.
There's a conclusion to be drawn here, certainly. I think it's a very well written article that shows a company worried about accusations that do not reflect the reality of its management and that provided ample evidence of such, so I don't think its author has took a risk of having his reputation tarnished by it.
 
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Systolique

Member
Oct 26, 2017
143
Everything from your last post is wrong, you should start your alternative facts newspaper if you hate what the best French press has to offer.
Also that article you linked is being laughed at by french devs right now, and the word always has been "talk to previous employees if you want to work at Quantic"; but keep living in your bubble.
 

Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
Oh really. And is it OK to let a thread like that on Era ? I saw mods post here so he must be.
I am not gonna lie, this is really bad press for the forum.
OP went as far to try and correct native french speakers when not really knowing the language themselves in the thread they were banned in too.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,312
It's interesting to me, yet not one bit impressive, that people are still outraged in regards to QD when the evidences (dismissal of the 'toxic culture' allegations by the court, internal investigations and audits by third parties not finding evidence of wrongdoing, employees accounts that explicitly state that no one found QD's management to be abusive) all point to the company actually treating its employees fairly and having taking significant measures to handle the fallout of the actions of a few employees who, so far, have had their claims dismissed by the labor court. It seems, also, few people are willing to entertain the possibility that the reporting of issue was 'faulty', if not heavily biased, even when, again, the show that the 'toxic culture' they described wasn't real. I will say that what QD has so far is commendable, in terms of their fierce defense against allegations that so far haven't 'stuck' against them and fostering a good environment for their employees, since most companies would've simply tried to settle the matte quietly and people outside wouldn't have much assurance of whether they situation for their employees would've improved or not.

There's a conclusion to be drawn here, certainly. I think it's a very well written article that shows a company worried about accusations that do not reflect the reality of its management and that provided ample evidence of such, so I don't think it's author has took a risk of having his reputation tarnished by it.



It's impressive how you can manage to straight up lying like this and convince yourself of it despite the court saying otherwise. But what's to say to someone transparent af such as you ?



unknown.png
 

darhf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
125
Toulouse, France
I may add that the french labor courts are not an easy thing to parse.
The prud'homme first level is not really a professional court of law, it's a jury of 2 employers and 2 employees + 1 professional judge. The employers and employees are not jurists, they can listen to the lawyers arguments but it's a facts-based court hearing.
There is no police investigation, the court can't force the company to release internal documents for instance, it is up to the plaintiff to provide evidence.

If the employee has not access anymore to the company stuff and has not saved screenshots or other material proof, the court will rule in favor of the employer. IMO that's why the plaintiff cited the articles as proof.

The appeal courts will dig deeper and will judge against both fact and law (by professional judges), so there's a much better chance to get compensation at this level, but depending on the area, it can be a lot of time to be heard (think 2+ years), so when there is compensation awarded at the first level, lawyers tend to advise not to appeal.

So my hot french take on the legal discussion : The plaintiff was dismissed on its main point, but was awarded some money, an appeal would only be judged in a few years and be costly so everybody took the easy route and can declare a win.
 

Thera

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
12,876
France
OP went as far to try and correct native french speakers when not really knowing the language themselves in the thread they were banned in too.
Not surprised, he compared Le Monde with Fox News and he probably doesn't know Mediapart.
For the record, the fact that David Cage was a piece of sh*t was well known in France way before this story.
all point to the company actually treating its employees fairly
What's your view on Riot games ?
 

Staticneuron

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,187
"The image had no specific angle (not homophobic, racist or misogynist, as the Labor Court confirmed), but it was definitely not acceptable," Cage said

I'm putting this part "(not homophobic, racist or misogynist, as the Labor Court confirmed)" on VB's account when they say that the Labor Court confirmed it.

I took that to be a quote from Cage himself and not the writer pointing out a statement of fact. If the writer wanted to do that, it makes more sense to do that in another sentence and not in the middle of a quote.

Also that part:
After the completion of one investigation, a French labor court cleared the company of the most serious accusations and any large financial liability related to them.

It didn't clear the company on the existence of those photos neither on the toxicity of the environnement. It didn't requalify the resignation but it acknowledged the existence of the situation.

I think that was referring to the monetary value. Not seriousness in terms of a general opinion but more so about the punishment a company recieves in the ruling. Also the case about the photos seem to classify an event. And also doesn't really prove a totally toxic environment. Not saying that it isn't, but the ruling was narrow in scope.

It's interesting to me, yet not one bit impressive, that people are still outraged in regards to QD when the evidences (dismissal of the 'toxic culture' allegations by the court, internal investigations and audits by third parties not finding evidence of wrongdoing, employees accounts that explicitly state that no one found QD's management to be abusive) all point to the company actually treating its employees fairly and having taking significant measures to handle the fallout of the actions of a few employees who, so far, have had their claims dismissed by the labor court. It seems, also, few people are willing to entertain the possibility that the reporting of issue was 'faulty', if not heavily biased, even when, again, the show that the 'toxic culture' they described wasn't real. I will say that what QD has so far is commendable, in terms of their fierce defense against allegations that so far haven't 'stuck' against them and fostering a good environment for their employees, since most companies would've simply tried to settle the matte quietly and people outside wouldn't have much assurance of whether they situation for their employees would've improved or not.

There's a conclusion to be drawn here, certainly. I think it's a very well written article that shows a company worried about accusations that do not reflect the reality of its management and that provided ample evidence of such, so I don't think it's author has took a risk of having his reputation tarnished by it.

I think the issue here is that this article is mainly made up of quotes from people. The dangerous part about things like that is that there could be a toxic environment for a few, there is no telling how that is handled. An example would be, one employee feeling offended at a coffee mug another employee has at their desk. Just because other workers may find it ok, doesn't negate how the offended person feels. And then it becomes worse, if other employees take it upon themselves to express that if they are not offended, than the person that is, is either too sensitive or not worth listening to. That situation sucks and many people can relate. And sadly gathering quotes from a select group of people wouldn't represent the feelings of anyone offended. The article doesn't prove QD isn't a toxic place. All it points out is that QD believe they do not have a toxic workplace.

As far as his reputation, as long as he sticks to quoting people and what they say without presenting opinions as fact, I would think he is in good standing. Seeing GhostTrick's post makes me understand a bit "why" he thought the article itself was compromised. I just took it that way.
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
Got a little curious about this and did some quick googling on the auditing firms he mentions. The URSSAF he mentions seems to be not actually a government body, but a series of private organizations that collect money for social security. At a glance I don't think it's suspicious or anything though.
It is basically a private organisation with a government function, so I wouldn't say it is wrong to call it a government body. They are hired for the government, dependent on the government, but are in their own end, not a government company.
 

Mistouze

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,430
Yeah fuck QD and fuck people who let them run shit to try to minimize what was going on.
 

darhf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
125
Toulouse, France
It is basically a private organisation with a government function, so I wouldn't say it is wrong to call it a government body. They are hired for the government, dependent on the government, but are in their own end, not a government company.

URSSAF doesn't investigate workplace conditions, it's mainly a tax collector, and can investigate on allegations of fraud.

"L'inspection du travail" is the government body responsible for workplace conditions.
 

Systolique

Member
Oct 26, 2017
143
VentureBeat is what we call a "torchon"; literally a rag, a place of no standing, or even more commonly referred as "trash".
 
OP
OP
Adamska

Adamska

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,042
And sadly gathering quotes from a select group of people wouldn't represent the feelings of anyone offended. The article doesn't prove QD isn't a toxic place. All it points out is that QD believe they do not have a toxic workplace.
Still, it's one of the most enlightening pieces on the matter so far. It traces exactly how the event that sparked this all happened, i.e., the harmless pictures were posted on the company's premise, but the one who did them leaked a bunch of offensive stuff he did on his own, and QD's response was to investigate and make sure this one event wasn't indicative of the company's culture, which so far seems to be the case (which is why QD's actions are commendable, IMO, when most companies would quickly try to sweep stuff under the rug, QD is actually making sure its employees aren't subject to a toxic environment while also defending their reputation against claims that don't reflect the reality of the company). It's telling, also, that at least one person who claimed damages has refused to be interviewed. We'll see how the case against the French outlets will unfurl, but I do think they were well intended in their reporting, even if it seems, so far, that it was case of an exacerbated report over only a few statements.
 
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Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,210
I like how the article absolutely glosses over the fact the person incriminated for the pictures had a leadership position and an employee representative mandate, while making a point that no one complained beforehand. Nevermind that the description of the 2019 ruling is really generous to QD while entirely ignoring how French labor courts work and their scope.
 

Deleted member 5028

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
9,724
the harmless pictures were posted on the company's premise
Rightttttttt. "Harmless". I'm sure they it was harmless for Ellen Page when this happened:
kotaku.com

NSFW: Players Uncover A Naked Ellen Page In Her New Video Game

If there's one thing we can count on, it's that some people are interested in seeing naked character models—this is true regardless of the game. In a sense, you could say there was a metaphorical timer starting the second that David Cage's latest game, Beyond: Two Souls, which stars popular...

Your continued insistence into how QD have been wronged here is getting really suspicious.
I like how the article absolutely glosses over the fact the person incriminated for the pictures had a leadership position and an employee representative mandate, while making a point that no one complained beforehand. Nevermind that the description of the 2019 ruling is really generous to QD while entirely ignoring how French labor courts work and their scope.
This poster said everything my brain has been screaming. Well said.

It's telling, also, that at least one person who claimed damages has refused to be interviewed.
When you've being interviewed for a puff piece like this why would you say yes?
 

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,682
Personally, I'm glad that the people who work there don't feel they're being subject to any sort of abuse, even if a few employees tried to exploit this possibility (and lost).
"I'm glad they didn't face abuse, except the ones who did but fuck them they were lying" is a hell of a take
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,312
Still, it's one of the most enlightening pieces on the matter so far. It traces exactly how the event that sparked this all happened, i.e., the harmless pictures were posted on the company's premise, but the one who did them leaked a bunch of offensive stuff he did on his own, and QD's response was to investigate and make sure this one event wasn't indicative of the company's culture, which so far seems to be the case (which is why QD's actions are commendable, IMO, when most companies would quickly try to sweep stuff under the rug, QD is actually making sure its employees aren't subject to a toxic environment while also defending their reputation against claims that don't reflect the reality of the company). It's telling, also, that at least one person who claimed damages has refused to be interviewed. We'll see how the case against the French outlets will unfurl, but I do think they were well intended in their reporting, even if it seems, so far, that it was case of an exacerbated report over only a few statements.


Court says: "The pictures were racist, homophobic, sexist"

Adamska: "Those were harmless"


Fuck off.
 
Original articles from Mediapart and Canard PC

Systolique

Member
Oct 26, 2017
143
OP
OP
Adamska

Adamska

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,042
User Banned (3 Months): Excusing bigoted content and toxic work environments over a series of posts, prior severe ban
Rightttttttt. "Harmless"
Yes, harmless. The abusive pictures weren't posted on the company's premise, they were leaked by the person who made them. It says so on the article and on my post.
"I'm glad they didn't face abuse, except the ones who did but fuck them they were lying" is a hell of a take
But it appears the accounts of those who claimed abuse have been unreliable so far, as their claims have been dismissed. There's a difference between a person feeling wronged (which no one can ever deny from that person) and a company fostering an abusive environment (which so far hasn't been proved, after investigations, audits and court cases). QD certainly could've done a better job of ensuring the well-being of these particular people, as no one should have to feel like that in their workplace, but QD also seem to be taking serious steps in regards to something similar never happening again.
 

Deleted member 5028

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
9,724
Yes, harmless. The abusive pictures weren't posted on the company's premise, they were leaked by the person who made them. It says so on the article and on my post.

But it appears the accounts of those who claimed abuse have been unreliable so far, as their claims have been dismissed. There's a difference between a person feeling wronged (which no one can ever deny from that person) and a company fostering an abusive environment (which so far hasn't been proved, after investigations, audits and court cases).
This is top shelf gaslighting. Well done.
 

Systolique

Member
Oct 26, 2017
143
Yes, harmless. The abusive pictures weren't posted on the company's premise, they were leaked by the person who made them. It says so on the article and on my post.

But it appears the accounts of those who claimed abuse have been unreliable so far, as their claims have been dismissed. There's a difference between a person feeling wronged (which no one can ever deny from that person) and a company fostering an abusive environment (which so far hasn't been proved, after investigations, audits and court cases).

Imagine lying right below the original reporting you didn't read.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,312
Yes, harmless. The abusive pictures weren't posted on the company's premise, they were leaked by the person who made them. It says so on the article and on my post.

But it appears the accounts of those who claimed abuse have been unreliable so far, as their claims have been dismissed. There's a difference between a person feeling wronged (which no one can ever deny from that person) and a company fostering an abusive environment (which so far hasn't been proved, after investigations, audits and court cases). QD certainly could've done a better job of ensuring the well-being of these particular people, as no one should have to feel like that in their workplace, but QD also seem to be taking serious steps in regards to something similar never happening again.




They were sent by the person doing them to the persons that were on those montage. And the company knew and decided that it was a funny joke.
 
OP
OP
Adamska

Adamska

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,042
This is top shelf gaslighting. Well done.
I'm not sure how this is gaslighting from my part when I'm not the one dismissing what happened but the courts dismissing people's claims. QD also did their due diligence, so they didn't gaslit anything either. Everything would be very different had QD's management been found in fault, but nothing so far backs this notion.
 

Bear Patrol

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,042
OP's passionate stanning for a corporation that has consistently put out some of the most insensitive and exploitative work of minorities is gross. How privileged do you have to be to act like this, Adamska?

Truly disgusting acts of bending over backwards to not even consider the actual truth of the evidence presented.
 

Systolique

Member
Oct 26, 2017
143
I mean this thread is going nowhere if OP keeps saying absolute nonsense and straight up lies.

EDIT : seeing the post below I think it's just a troll, best to ignore and move on
 
OP
OP
Adamska

Adamska

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,042
"For three years, none of Quantic Dream's 200 or so employees complained about being included in the images. But on February 27, 2017, the employee editing these pictures shared all 600 of them with the entire company. He evidently forgot that 12 of the images were entirely inappropriate, and he shared them by mistake. The company's IT manager at the time told management that the image of him was unacceptable. His face was pasted on a famous reality TV show character, Supernanny."

This seems very clear to me, so I don't understand people's confusion.
 

Deleted member 925

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,711
What the hell is this thread? I had to do a double take at the title and then the first post. Is this really going to be allowed here? This is straight up propaganda.
 
OP
OP
Adamska

Adamska

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,042
What the hell is this thread? I had to do a double take at the title and then the first post. Is this really going to be allowed here? This is straight up propaganda.
It's a newspiece? You are free to opine on it, too, but how is this propaganda? I do think that, so far, QD has handled this very well, much better than most cases that reach the public in regards to employees' treatment in the games industry. Does this means I'm stanning now?
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,312
It's a newspiece? You are free to opine on it, too, but how is this propaganda? I do think that, so far, QD has handled this very well, much better than most cases that reach the public in regards to employees' treatment in the games industry. Does this means I'm stanning now?



Yes you are, since you've been caught straight up lying. Fucking corporate bootlicker.
 
OP
OP
Adamska

Adamska

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,042
I just reported his posts for obvious lying and misrepresentation of facts. I suggest you do the same too because this sort of behavior needs to not be allowed.
What's being misrepresented? I just said that the inappropriate pictures weren't posted in the company's premise, that the offending material was shared later by its creator, not posted on the company's coffee machine like the previous material that was never reported on by the employees.
 

Maxime

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,986
From one (former) journalist @ Canard PC :



Also, from the Canard PC journalists who covered the story (it seems they weren't contacted for what remains a huge piece of PR for QD):



'I laughed. Nervously.'

Some parts of this paper seem unbelievable. Also worth remembering QD sued two outlets (Le Monde & Mediapart) and threatens other jsut to talk about the allegation (Gamekult).


Edit: Mediapart's journalist:



'When Quantic Dream attacks articles questioning their practices, defamation is never far away.'
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,319
"I worked with a gay and a black guy before so I can't be racist"
Bruh
Wasn't Ellen Page like really upset about the nude model of her in Beyond?
 
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