Who exactly refuses to buy Ultimate? This is a loaded question that assumes that the community is way, way more divided than it actually is
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How Nintendo Has Hurt the Smash Community: anonymous insider reveals how Nintendo has actively worked against a Smash eSports scene
- Thread starter Atheerios
- Start date
What Nintendo has done seems wrong to me, I'm talking about "Why don't Nintendo care about Melee".
That's what I'm saying. That very few Melee fans that refuse to buy Ultimate or Ultimate DLC. They are not "losing money" by ignoring Melee. That's why they have no interest in Melee HD or whatever as suggested here.
It also makes sense, considering the community isn't going anywhere and has done what needs to be done with regards to the abuse and misconduct that has surfaced in the past months, that they use their considerable clout to help curate it.
Also as yet another reminder, the lion's share of the abuse that came to light was in regard to the Ultimate community, which is the current and relevant Smash game business-wise to Nintendo. Their actions in undermining competition by shutting down Big House was because of slippi and Melee, which took down Ultimate as well by association. They care about control of their IP, if they want to pitch in and help repair their brand image because of the actions of abusers in the communities in their games, they also have a responsibility to speak up, and as I recall they never said a damn thing.
??
Most people just said "oh yeah, Reggie is a boomer that's out of touch on this issue", shrugged, and went back to posting Reggie memes. He's hardly living in disgrace right now.
You can say that about anything. How many people wouldn't buy Odyssey but would buy 64, Sunshine, or Galaxy? That didn't stop them from releasing them uprezzed on the Switch.
They already came to the table in many ways throughout the years, is not like Nintendo never interacter or supported the competitive scene.
The more complex part is trying to understand why the same company who partners with key tournaments, promotes them in social media and runs Splatoon events in the same venue also shuts down a global smash circuit, vetoes tourneys and actively hindersbthe scene of growing.
Uh, no, they are not comparable at all. You play Super Mario 64, complete it, and move on to another game. A multiplayer game doesn't work like that. Nintendo is interested in people continuing to play Ultimate and talking about it because they have DLC to sell.
User banned (permanent): Hostile and inflammatory generalizations. Numerous previous bans for trolling and gross behaviour.
Honestly good. Smash community is toxic and many of the big names ended up being pedophiles. No sane person would want to associate themselves with that. The smash community isn't owed anything, and they need to stop acting like they are. Maybe also take a shower cuz they stanky.
Nintendo has never once wavered from their 'emulation = piracy' stance, not once in *decades.* They do not care that emulation is legal.
Nothing about their behavior outlined in the twitlonger is even a little bit surprising.
Very original post that hasn't been posted in this thread before.
Sakurai and the Smash teams don't even bother to sell pallete swaps or DLC costumes (other than Mii which requires way lower resources) and people think that they would sell costumes for a modern remastered Smash? I think that people are confusing Nintendo with Valve.
Plus in general Nintendo seems to have a philosophy to not sell remasters of old reiterative multiplayer games. Some Mario Kart ports could sell well with nostalgia alone but they don't want to take attention from MK8DX.
Plus in general Nintendo seems to have a philosophy to not sell remasters of old reiterative multiplayer games. Some Mario Kart ports could sell well with nostalgia alone but they don't want to take attention from MK8DX.
I'll repeat this as many times as I have to: Nintendo sat on their behinds for nearly 20 years ignoring a growing IP. The sexual abuse scandal was literally a few months ago. It's completely false to use it as a reason on why Nintendo is reluctant to support the smash scene.
And if someone who was an ambassador for their brand like the EA Game Changers was involved in something then similar, then I'd hope the company would do their best to sever ties with that person.
The Smash community did Nintendo's job for them and build up the scene by themselves. Nintendo wouldn't really have to do anything.
EDIT: I meant in the competitive sense
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As has been said... numerous times in this thread, most of what happened in that twitlonger well predates covid and therefore comes well before Melee was played on emulators in tournaments.
In a non-pandemic year, tournaments are conducted using real hardware and legit discs.
Old Mario Karts have shown up on VC and mini consoles, but usually past the point where they're relevant and are more seen as a novelty.
Its about control yes, control over their IP and its public image
Do you think you will combat the reputation of smash by taking it personally and attacking everyone that enters the thread? Some of us actually do care but are still sickened, dismayed and sad about what has transpired for years.
I think the community perhaps overestimates its influence on the general public popularity of Smash Bros.
No I get that but I'm just confused because not every Smash tourney gets snipped by them.
I'm confused. Do you mean in a competitive sense only?
Because Nintendo made Smash the huge IP that it is today themselves. Huge game
Budgets, marketing deals, etc.
I think the three sequels Nintendo produced in that time, each more successful than the last helped a tad more.
Nice take on the thousands of people that are a part of that community
On topic, that shit hurts, also it is interesting to see just how happy Nintendo seems to be to screw over potential partners while also wanting them to partner with them on other games
I think most of you don't have a damn clue about the "Smash community" (which, by the way, is actually two almost completely separate communities that mostly share event/planning resources) and are just here to talk shit, so I honestly think I can behave however I want and it won't change how anyone feels.
Besides, I'm taking it personally because the insinuation that I somehow associate with pedophiles by being a part of a community that I've been involved in for 15 years is personal. Also, as I have said a bunch of times in this thread, it is flagrantly disgusting to co-opt the horrible things that have come to light over the summer for the purpose of saying the whole Smash community deserves whatever it gets. Those victims are, by and large, members of the Smash community who themselves do not want to see it die, including some who have posted in this very thread.
its truly shocking that drivebys like this calling me not "sane" (cool jab at people with poor mental health!) and using shitty "lol smell bad" memes in the same thought as them ostensibly caring about pedophiles are all still here and fine, and the only person who has been banned in this entire thread (the ENTIRE thing!!) is someone who bothered to argue against people who didnt read the OP.
Bigger than 0. Only Nintendo could really know for sure, but finding that out would require them to not be actively antagonistic towards a (potential) customer base. From a risk standpoint, it seems like a much safer bet to make a product that people are literally begging you to make than some of the many original flops that Nintendo has greenlit over the years. We're also talking about the best selling game on the Gamecube here too, some casuals would surely pick it up out of nostalgia (and having arguably the best single player content).
The situation is pretty much exactly the same as Street Fighter where Capcom put out their big SFIV release and then also put out an online enhanced remaster of SF3 a couple years later. Nothing got cannibalized.
Oh don't get me wrong, I don't think they're actually gonna do any of this. Valve is exactly who I had in mind when I made that post though. Dota 2 and Melee are my favorite multiplayer games ever so when I see the former doing pretty okay embracing things and Melee being pretty much the exact opposite, I just think that things could be so much better.
You attacked them personally by making such generalizations about a community they're a part of. Don't act like it's weird for them to take it personally.
DotA, Melee and CS are all top5 multiplayer games of all time for me, all stemming from playing a game in a new kind of way that's community driven.
Their metagames are continuously evolving over decades and will never not be fun to play, nor will they die out (though Valorant is a pretty good effort).
A lot of people posting here just don't seem to know much about/like the smash community and are using something that was ultimately good for it as a weapon against it.
Some of the posts calling smash players stinky are also just incredible childish, that'd be like saying all era posters are socially awkward weirdo's just because we do have some really weird stuff posted here from time to time.
People also seem to forget we were literally formed because of a sexual abuse scandal and our previous community had a paedophile as a moderator.
Should our community now be panned for that as many are doing to the Smash community? Especially when most melee players didn't even seem involved in the incidents and it was seemingly mostly Ultimate/Smash 4 players. It's also not really the point anyway as Nintendo were acting against the Smash community far before most had heard about what was going on inside the Smash community.
Some of the posts calling smash players stinky are also just incredible childish, that'd be like saying all era posters are socially awkward weirdo's just because we do have some really weird stuff posted here from time to time.
People also seem to forget we were literally formed because of a sexual abuse scandal and our previous community had a paedophile as a moderator.
Should our community now be panned for that as many are doing to the Smash community? Especially when most melee players didn't even seem involved in the incidents and it was seemingly mostly Ultimate/Smash 4 players. It's also not really the point anyway as Nintendo were acting against the Smash community far before most had heard about what was going on inside the Smash community.
How is Nintendo not supporting the Smash community surprising to anyone?
Not even delving into perceived toxicity of the community, almost all roads in the smash community eventually lead to what Nintendo considers piracy. The inability to not let Melee fall in favor of the newest version and instead receive impressive homebrew support does the scene no favors in the eyes of Nintendo. As cool as the homebrew community is, it often opens the door for piracy as well. I think this is why you will never see a port of Melee either. It would just put a bigger spotlight on the homebrew community for the modern systems which unfortunately would shine a light on piracy as well.
Not even delving into perceived toxicity of the community, almost all roads in the smash community eventually lead to what Nintendo considers piracy. The inability to not let Melee fall in favor of the newest version and instead receive impressive homebrew support does the scene no favors in the eyes of Nintendo. As cool as the homebrew community is, it often opens the door for piracy as well. I think this is why you will never see a port of Melee either. It would just put a bigger spotlight on the homebrew community for the modern systems which unfortunately would shine a light on piracy as well.
I have literally responded to this point on this page. Prior to covid, tournaments were run using unmodified Gamecubes and legit copies of the game. This has nothing to do with mods, homebrew or piracy.
But it eventually will. Maybe not this event, but those things that Nintendo dislikes will exist at another.event that relies on the same community that all Smash events rely on. Even if you scrub it from the main tournament some place nearby will still be doing side games with homebrew support.
What? This is totally different from your post that Fugu responded to. There isn't "impressive home brew support" required to play melee in person... that is simply not true.
New information about Twitch – Project M
Do you have a source to support this statement? That number is much higher than I would have guessed.
I said the homebrew was impressive, not required, which gives an unfortunate highlight to the existence of the mod community.
Why would that happen? People want to play the vanilla game. The tournaments are for the vanilla game. We already cancelled one big mod (PM) because Nintendo implied that they would shut down events if we didn't. Why would that change?
No, I'm just extrapolating. I've been to/watched dozens of Melee events, many of which had over 1 000 attendees and over 100 000 viewers. It's plausible to me at least that the number is at least a six digit number given that I also know that large event attendance/viewership is just one piece of the pie.
All you've listed is a bunch of reasons why a giant corporation interested in protecting the family-friendly image of their IP would never give full support to events they don't control 100%.
Nobody's asking for their full support. Hell, nobody's even asking for their support anymore. We're advocating for indifference.
Yeah, thats a pretty shitty thing for you to say. For real. Generalizing an entire community of thousands of people based on the vile actions of a small group of people that have been comprehensively disowned and disavowed by the entire rest of us.
To think you could compare the entire scene (including many of us here) to child abusers blithely like this, and I'd still be likelier to catch a ban or a warn if I told you to 'get the fuck outta here' for posting it. EDIT: Well, that aged well. Sorry, mod team. Thanks for taking that seriously and doing something about that kind of rhetoric.
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The post has been up for well over 12 hours and people still can't manage to read the goddamned article.
Nintendo isn't distancing themselves because the scene has many prominent sexual abusers. They're not supporting it because they aren't interested in e-sports.
500+ posts and the topic still seems to be about the community's numerous sexual abuse allegations and not the fact that Nintendo doesn't want to support e-sports.
They can't even get the game right, since most (if not all) of the recent allegations were from Ultimate players.
yeah agreed, thank you whoever finally started working on this thread
Nintendo only sees their communities as something to siphon interest in upcoming games. Remember that. I'm surprised nobody noticed this since the Wii U/3DS Smash days. They only put on a big tournament to..market their newest game. That was it.
It's kind of wild that Nintendo has tried to do some eSports scene with other games and have gotten hilariously lukewarm results. ARMS ain't had shit, Pokken barely had a thing, and I think the only reason Splatoon had any sort of success was because it's the closest Nintendo has to an online "shooter." But the one with actual players and an actual audience is just a tool every console generation to market a new game and literally nothing else.
They'd probably get behind a Mario Kart mobile eSports league before ever touching Smash.
It's kind of wild that Nintendo has tried to do some eSports scene with other games and have gotten hilariously lukewarm results. ARMS ain't had shit, Pokken barely had a thing, and I think the only reason Splatoon had any sort of success was because it's the closest Nintendo has to an online "shooter." But the one with actual players and an actual audience is just a tool every console generation to market a new game and literally nothing else.
They'd probably get behind a Mario Kart mobile eSports league before ever touching Smash.
What is a fact, sadly, is that this is what Smash is associated with today on the internet today. That's why it's difficult for people to sympathize with fandom.
I really don't see how that matters. Its all smash. Melee and Ult are often in the same event venues, many of those abusers like zero, D1 also played/commented melee.
Because prominent members will truly never let go.
Nintendo's lack of support for og hardware tournaments has a longer history than the twitlonger.
People should stop using 'shocked' or 'surprised' when describing Nintendo's appalling behavior towards the competitive smash scene. This is what they have always done and they will never change.
Because the topic is Melee. It has only ever been about Melee. Someone taking a minute out of their day to actually read up on what's happening would be able to determine that it only concerns Melee.