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ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,634
So I've been making my way through Crash 4 recently, and I'm nearing the end of the campaign. I've never been the biggest fan of the series, but I have enjoyed Crash 4. While it certainly has its faults, I think Crash 4 is a great example of how to revive a long dormant franchise in a way that respects the originals and expands upon them. One sentiment that I keep seeing online when looking up discussion or reviews for the game is that it's rather difficult.

80

Toys for Bob has some truly talented artists working on their recent platformer projects.

Now, first I want to say that I agree with that overall assessment. While on the default Modern mode (unlimited lives) simply completing the game's missions (ignoring optional completionist objectives) is perfectly doable for anyone with medium-to-high platforming skill levels, I can't even imagine trying to complete this game on Retro. The notion of having limited lives and getting sent to the beginning of a level once they've been extinguished in this game sounds like an absolute nightmare scenario to me. No fucking thank you.

That said, I can't help but feel that much of this game's difficulty often boils down to problems that arise as a result of the game's various camera angles.

The Crash games have always shifted between placing the camera behind Crash's back or off to the side for a pseudo-2D perspective. Sometimes the camera will be a bit higher above Crash while at other times it will be tightly locked behind him. Either way, I've found that especially in the behind-the-back segments (which are the most common) I end up dying about 75% of the time due to difficulty judging depth because of this rather suboptimal camera angle. Sometimes you can't judge a jump because a box or enemy obscures the ledge, other times you'll just miss what should've been a simple, easy jump onto a box because the camera angle just makes it unnecessarily hard to properly gauge the distance. Granted, 3D platformers have historically struggled to varying degrees with camera perspective and camera control, but Crash 4's camera issues border on reminding me of the early 3D era when nobody had figured out camera perspectives in 3D.

uXl4fpK.gif

Not my gameplay, but you can see here how judging the distance from enemies is made harder than it should be by the perspective.

Like, I can't remember a 3D platformer from the last 10-15 years that gave me much trouble in terms of judging distance due to camera placement. Crash 4 is the only one, excepting the N. Sane Trilogy which simply mirrored the camera angles of the original PS1 games.

Again, I'd like to reiterate that I don't think Crash 4 is insanely difficult to complete by any means. It's not. It's just that deaths feel somewhat unfair or undeserved far more often in Crash 4 than they have to me in any platformer in recent memory. A good platformer makes you feel like every death was 100% your fault, but more often then not a death in Crash 4 is met with confusion from me. Am I alone in this? If not, what would you like to see as an improvement in this regard in Crash 5?
 
Oct 31, 2017
9,627
First, the distinction between Retro/Modern is marginal. You collect so many wumpa fruit/lives by naturally progressing, I'd think running out of lives would be hard to do unless someone was deliberately dying/doing things to put themselves in harms way more often than not. That said, if a person does die a lot, continually, they should just turn on Modern mode yeah. No shame in it, but I don't think there's really that much of a functional difference between the two modes.

I do agree that Crash 4 has a bit of an issue with depth perception, though I'm not entirely sure why. It might be the rendering style/effects work. It might be the position of the camera in relationship to level geometry. It might be how the drop shadow works. It might be a combination of all of these things.

What makes this problem more obvious is trying to play the game with the "enhanced" drop shadow turned off. Trying to gauge jumps basically becomes impossible unless you are extremely familiar with the game, its level layouts, and Crash's movement.

Honestly, I think that's mostly what it is, that Crash's drop shadow, even with default "enhanced" option on, only shows up when Crash is in the air and isn't just present beneath Crash at all times.

In the original games, Crash's drop shadow was always visible, whether in air/mid jump, or running along a surface.

 

Alek

Games User Researcher
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,471
Crash 4 isn't too difficult to begin with. It's just an exercise in frustration with all of the recycled content and punishing level replays (no death, time trial, all boxes, all boxes without dying and again for inverted).

As far as the camera goes I found it really easy to figure out my position in 3D space, especially because of the shadow highlight feature.
 

Aarglefarg

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,067
The enhanced shadow visibility option made depth perception a non-issue for me.

Some of the hardest parts are side-scrolling.
 

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
I think it's a general camera angle issue. The game is properly balanced around it in the same way it's balanced around the different momentum and midair move speed from the past games, but those differences are present, and take getting used to. I definitely felt like I could not get a feel for where I would land early on when I never felt that way in the Naughty Dog games.

could be that the camera is sometimes slightly too low for jumps to be easily gauged, or something.

Honestly, I think that's mostly what it is, that Crash's drop shadow, even with default "enhanced" option on, only shows up when Crash is in the air and isn't just present beneath Crash at all times.

In the original games, Crash's drop shadow was always visible, whether in air/mid jump, or running along a surface.
Yeah, it seems like a small difference but having even just a normal circular shadow at all times even when on the ground would help.

I would have never even beaten the main game without that shadow in 4, let alone get "100%" (not 106%).
 

Acquiesc3

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,724
Took a few levels but I got used to it. The shadow helps a bit and obviously everything just comes down to timing and muscle memory in the end.

Difficulty wise the game is also pretty consistent.

Until THAT part near the end.
 
Oct 31, 2017
9,627
Yeah, it seems like a small difference but having even just a normal circular shadow at all times even when on the ground would help.

I would have never even beaten the main game without that shadow in 4, let alone get "100%" (not 106%).
I think the camera does play a role in this, but yeah, a big part I think is the subtle change in not having the drop shadow be present at all times.

Trying to beat Crash 4 without the drop shadow, especially if one was playing it for the first time, would be incredibly enraging I think. The game already can be pretty patience testing, but to try to make all the jumps without that shadow, especially blind? No thanks lol.

I still haven't fully 100% it (not talking 106%). I don't think I'm really going to bother with the relics honestly, but we'll see.
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,812
I've been trying to play the remastered trilogy since it came with the PS+ collection and I'm just glad I didn't pay for it. I was obsessed with these games when I was a kid, but the overall gameplay has aged terribly and the issues described in the OP are the same I have with the trilogy. It's just an exercise in frustration, and constant leaps of faith because often you can't properly calculate where you will land.

Even with the 2.5 perspective, and let me tell you, I have an even bigger problem with these levels because they're actually 3D and you're just seeing the level sideways, which completely fucks with your depth perception.

It's disappointing to read Crash 4 suffers from the same issues.
 

Dark Mantonio

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,769
I've only played the trilogy but I think it's a combination of the perspective and the brevity of the spin move. Naughty Dog made it infinitely more predictable with Jak & Daxter.
 

AtomicShroom

Tools & Automation
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
3,080
The problem is that they added tons of really tricky and cheap platforming patterns that the original game design was never intended to accommodate. Tons of "one single crate floating in mid-air above a bottomless death pit with nothing around to judge the relative distance" situations. The original games' level designs were built and balanced around it, but in Crash 4 they didn't give a flying fuck and made it a point to create the most sadistic of level designs. It's Kaizo Crash.
 

XaosWolf

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,951
The example gif would be a lot easier if the enemies had a dropped shadow to gauge your against.
 
Oct 31, 2017
9,627
The example gif would be a lot easier if the enemies had a dropped shadow to gauge your against.
Yeah, this actually highlights the point I made above about drop shadows.

When it's a flying enemy in the game, they actually do get drop shadows similar to the one the player gets, only red.

And I think in the original games, enemies had drop shadows visible at all times like the player.
 
OP
OP
ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,634
Yeah, this actually highlights the point I made above about drop shadows.

When it's a flying enemy in the game, they actually do get drop shadows similar to the one the player gets, only red.

And I think in the original games, enemies had drop shadows visible at all times like the player.
I think the fact that the game defaults to a neon green outline around the drop shadow is an admission that there's a problem to begin with. That the game is severely hampered with that feature disabled is even more telling.
 

KeRaSh

I left my heart on Atropos
Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,270
That's the #1 reason why I'll always be #TeamSpyro. Hated the camera back in the PS1 days and haven't touched a Crash game since.
 
OP
OP
ScOULaris

ScOULaris

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,634
Alright, so I'm in the final area of the game right now, and I'm ready to double down on my stance here. The camera angle is basically acting like an optical illusion half of the time. It's ridiculous. Who is the world thought that these perspectives made sense from a platforming gameplay standpoint?

I love hard platformers, but they have to feel fair. The vast majority of deaths in Crash 4 just leave me scratching my head wondering what the hell happened. If the camera angle was just pitched a bit higher and at an angle it would solve so many of the depth perception issues.
 

RockmanBN

Visited by Knack - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,994
Cornfields
Never felt an unfair death because of the yellow highlight circle that shows exactly where you'll land.
 

Nimby

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,221
I don't think I really struggled with the camera/depth perception. Game is just challenging, and I wouldn't have died as much if I decided not to get all the boxes in each level.