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KNZFive

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,756
How Millennials Became The Burnout Generation by Anne Helen Peterson

I don't think I've ever related as hard to an article as I have to this one. There's parts in here that feel existentially painful to read.

But the more I tried to figure out my errand paralysis, the more the actual parameters of burnout began to reveal themselves. Burnout and the behaviors and weight that accompany it aren't, in fact, something we can cure by going on vacation. It's not limited to workers in acutely high-stress environments. And it's not a temporary affliction: It's the millennial condition. It's our base temperature. It's our background music. It's the way things are. It's our lives.

That realization recast my recent struggles: Why can't I get this mundane stuff done? Because I'm burned out. Why am I burned out? Because I've internalized the idea that I should be working all the time. Why have I internalized that idea? Because everything and everyone in my life has reinforced it — explicitly and implicitly — since I was young. Life has always been hard, but many millennials are unequipped to deal with the particular ways in which it's become hard for us.

I'd worked hard in college, but as an old millennial, the expectations for labor were tempered. We liked to say we worked hard, played hard — and there were clear boundaries around each of those activities. Grad school, then, is where I learned to work like a millennial, which is to say, all the time. My new watchword was "Everything that's good is bad, everything that's bad is good": Things that should've felt good (leisure, not working) felt bad because I felt guilty for not working; things that should've felt "bad" (working all the time) felt good because I was doing what I thought I should and needed to be doing in order to succeed.

It's a lengthy article, but worth the read. You're more than likely to find something in here that hits close to home.
 
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Prophet Steve

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,177
The links aren't entirely working at the moment.

From the short snippets I am reading, this is how I've been for quite some time. An internal pressure to be working and be productive all the time and upsetting myself for not being able to do so and it demotivates me from doing more making it worse.

At least I have become more aware of it so now is the time to figure out how to change.
 

nded

Member
Nov 14, 2017
10,556
Don't post Buzzfeed crap please.
8076.jpg
 

Jadax

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,055
That was uncalled for. I read the article earlier, and it aftuallly makes more than a few valid points.

Thanks for posting it here OP.
Since you brought it up.

The whole premise of the article is based on an extremely generalist assumption about people from a certain age-group, from 1 country in the world. It then goes on to only consider a few people's views about certain aspects of their lives (work, social lives etc) further narrowing the actual facts-based evidence that has even been considered.

So, when I said please don't post Buzzfeed crap, I meant to say, please don't post crap from a widely considered click-bait website that you are absolutely free to read.

But of course, mods may not read the article first, and will just warn/ban me because I said something that hurts someone's feelings on this site. So I guess do whatever you like and I'll take back my request to not post stuff from Buzzfeed.
 

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
I'm currently experiencing this myself, in a way. Didn't go to College because I wanted to become a chef, passed culinary school, and started working in the kitchen since my first semester. Haven't done any odd jobs in the last 7 years, just qorked on and off in various eatablisments. 2 months unemployed now, and I still cannot get myself to do various errands in the house to help my mother out. The expectations from management across the board that we are gonna work long hours for peanuts plus the already high stress nature of working in a kitchen is damn near suicidal, and it breaks you eventually.
 

Deleted member 23850

Oct 28, 2017
8,689
I think the ADHD probably has something to do with why the guy in the beginning paragraphs is having so many issues. ADHD is NOT just not being able to focus very well. Often it hampers your ability to do ANYTHING task based.
 

HotHamBoy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,423
Did you know that the human mind has a sort of "decision equity?" Big or small, conscious or unconscious, each decision takes its toll on your mental state.

Now, consider all the decsions one makes in just 10 minutes of browsing the interent.
 

Watershed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,807
Interesting article that I feel nails a lot of the social influences that have informed normative millennial behavior and mindset. I agree that financial instability, economic recessions, and changes in the exchange of labor for wages have all informed how millennials view work. but I think the author makes an few false assumptions, or at least reaches pretty far for these points:

1. That millennials have "optimized" their existence in order to work more or get more done. Outside of specific industries that pressure their employees to work away from work, like the tech industry, I don't think millennials are all using Grubhub and Instacart so that they can work from home and stay "on the job."

2. The entire concept of "errand paralysis" as a condition tied to the overwhelming stress of feeling like we need to be working all the time. If anything, I would argue that the examples she gives in the article are of millennials who are coping worse with the same mundane tasks that all previous generations have managed: stuff like paying bills, mailing letters, returning unwanted purchases.

I do think the general concept of burnout the writer expresses is real but I honestly wonder how concepts like resilience and perseverance and life-long learning figure into the issue.

My reaction to stuff like this quote:
While writing this piece, I was orchestrating a move, planning travel, picking up prescriptions, walking my dog, trying to exercise, making dinner, attempting to participate in work conversations on Slack, posting photos to social media, and reading the news. I was waking up at 6 a.m. to write, packing boxes over lunch, moving piles of wood at dinner, falling into bed at 9. I was on the treadmill of the to-do list: one damn thing after another.
is just, take care of your shit or do less. Everyone makes dinner, use Slack if you want to.
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,203
I think a lot of the pressures of people today comes from the glamorized role of startups and CEOs. With Blackberry and smartphones coming into people's hands the idea of the go tasking became even easier. So people began to feel this idea of "busy" when they needn't be. Combine this with all these services we keep having pop up to mitigate actual tasks(like your task rabbits or door dash ) and I begin to feel like all these tech advancements over the last decade have further impaired maturity. The hustle nature mentioned is precisely the problem I'm referring too. Amazon Fresh May get you back some time but it shouldn't be with the mindset to keep hustling; same thing with the whole AI cars and how they can let you keep working.


Using the Slack example let's just dissect this a bit further. Smartphones let you use Slack whenever and the instant nature makes you accessible at all times. This was just not a thing 15 years ago. We could be accessible but it was far more understood what working hours are. There is an immense amount of self awareness and care that needs to come in order to use Slack in a way that doesn't destroy your mind (hyperbole I know).

I'm just not totally jiving with the complaint of life as tasks. This is a mental state and one you can work to break out of. I noted above why I think it's rhis way but some of this stuff has just always been. The author notes this a bit but the harping on it is a bit heavy. I did use to think that way but I broke it and now I try to remind friends and co workers to not get there. That cannot be fixed by any other thing other than yourself.

The author jumps around a few different points on the issue but it comes back to technology and employment/wages. Employment and better wages will help but debt will always loom over you in some capacity. Technology is the much harder beast to solve and I don't know if we'll get there but perhaps a social media reckoning is coming. It's honest the single best self care you can do and fix your burn out.

I think me and Watershed are on the same page. A lot of these items are self inflicted through various societal pressure and influences that can be fixed on their own.
 

bane833

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,530
People need to free themselves from the thought that work is the most important part in life. Of course people who profit off of your work want you to believe that but it isn't true.
 
Oct 25, 2017
20,203
Ok so this seems to be the crux of their thesis on this:
To describe millennial burnout accurately is to acknowledge the multiplicity of our lived reality — that we're not just high school graduates, or parents, or knowledge workers, but all of the above — while recognizing our status quo. We're deeply in debt, working more hours and more jobs for less pay and less security, struggling to achieve the same standards of living as our parents, operating in psychological and physical precariousness, all while being told that if we just work harder, meritocracy will prevail, and we'll begin thriving. The carrot dangling in front of us is the dream that the to-do list will end, or at least become far more manageable.

Which I feel is just the same thing we've been reading for years now. It feels like a whole lot of rationalization to just get back to "we work shit jobs for shit pay".

As I said above all these pressures described and "tasks" don't just go away without debt and having more money.
 
Nov 14, 2017
4,928
So, I haven't worked at all for the past couple of months and let me tell you: it's pretty lit. I'm going to start studying and get a degree soon - part time for the rest of this year, going full time in the fall - so I don't expect this idleness to continue, unfortunately. Still, I'd highly recommend not working or undertaking any kind of obligation to anyone who gets the chance for a time. Don't feel guilty; I don't. I feel great!
 

Cocolina

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,974
So, I haven't worked at all for the past couple of months and let me tell you: it's pretty lit. I'm going to start studying and get a degree soon - part time for the rest of this year, going full time in the fall - so I don't expect this idleness to continue, unfortunately. Still, I'd highly recommend not working or undertaking any kind of obligation to anyone who gets the chance for a time. Don't feel guilty; I don't. I feel great!

What's your living situation?
 

Deleted member 532

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
214
"Things that should've felt good (leisure, not working) felt bad because I felt guilty for not working; things that should've felt "bad" (working all the time) felt good because I was doing what I thought I should and needed to be doing in order to succeed."

god damnit, this is me. Went from working 80-100 hour weeks (everyday for >3 months straight) to 40 hours a week and I feel guilty now.
 

Airegin

Member
Dec 10, 2017
3,900
Is this just a US thing? Europe here, I don't know anyone who works more than 40 hours a week. I'm too tired after work to do anything productive like learning an instrument and I do feel guilty about it but that's not quite a burnout.

I also feel that a lot of millenials like me are underachievers because we've had so many distractions from entertainment and the internet. I figure that if I were more intelligent like a lot of you I would have been able to resist those distractions and achieve more.
 
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Austriacus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
722
Is this just a US thing? Europe here, I don't know anyone who works more than 40 hours a week. I'm too tired after work to do anything productive like learning an instrument and I do feel guilty about it but that's not quite a burnout.

I also feel that a lot of millenials like me are underachievers because we've had so many distractions from entertainment and the internet. I figure that if I were more intelligent like a lot of you I would have been able to resist those distractions and achieve more.

I would say its dependant on the work culture in specific jobs and countries more so than a simple us thing.

A clear example of universal burnout is found in health professions like clinical psychologists, nurses and doctors. You can also find it in countries with terrible work culture apart from the USA like Japan and a lot of developing countries
 

Dingens

Circumventing ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,018
reminds me of the other article a few years back talking about "bullshit jobs", basically jobs that only exist because people are indoctrinated by society that everyone NEEDS to work, which clearly is not the case anymore.
 

Strat

Member
Apr 8, 2018
13,329
The part about the internalization of "work hard always forever" leading to the unhealthy situation where you feel bad during time off and feel good when you're busting your ass is 100% relatable. When you add in the fact that a lot of us are working so hard to get to a position at least equal to our parents generation, an almost unattainable position for many younger people, it makes it feel so so much worse.
 

teruterubozu

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,840
Life sux, then you die. This is not a condition unique to a specific generation in a specific culture.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,890
Sounds right, we had the funeral for my grandfather yesterday and in preparing remarks and speaking to people who knew him it was clear that while he had worked way too hard, to the point of putting his health in danger many times, he was able to totally separate work and pleasure and appreciate both the good and bad in life in a way that I have a difficult time internalizing for myself. We quickly learned that extra curricular activities exist less for personal enjoyment than for professional advancement. We learned, more than any other generation before, that everything we do has consequences, often serious ones, coming from a world where we have been informed that everything we consume impacts the environment and that everything we say can and will be used against us with a potency that only social media can create. In the past those elements of our daily decision-making was manageable, but life moves so quickly with so many consequential decisions made on a daily basis that you cannot help but feel exhausted if not beaten down and demoralized by constantly considering them whether choosing what to eat at a restaurant or making a critical decision at work.
 

Darryl M R

The Spectacular PlayStation-Man
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,716
I won't be able to read the entire article but the bit I read and what OP posted sounds true to me.

We are conditioned to even think about side hustles. You have people who graduated from top schools working for great companies and still feel the need to quickly find another source of income (excluding passive income). A lot of people have the idea that a hobby isn't worthwhile if it is not bettering you, often financially or physically.

It's a rat race and a lot of us are stuck in it. I'm hoping to use grad school as a moment to reassess and reorganize. After being a high achiever at work and outside of work, I'm looking to focus more on work that I love and ways to increase my passive income sources.
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
I'm a millennial and can't relate to this at all. I do think a lot of people in my generation can though.
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,988
Houston
Yea I can't relate to this at all.

Aside from the fact that I want to eyeroll so big that my eyes might roll out of my head when people use the word 'adulting' I don't relate to this at all.

Burnout doesn't cause you to not want to do errands, it causes you not to want to work at all. What she described to me was procrastination. Or laziness.
 

Spork4000

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
8,484
Is this just a US thing? Europe here, I don't know anyone who works more than 40 hours a week. I'm too tired after work to do anything productive like learning an instrument and I do feel guilty about it but that's not quite a burnout.

I also feel that a lot of millenials like me are underachievers because we've had so many distractions from entertainment and the internet. I figure that if I were more intelligent like a lot of you I would have been able to resist those distractions and achieve more.

I know many people who work 48-60 hours a week. The American work week can be brutal. Hell I have a desk job and occasionally work 50 hours a week.
 

Piston

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,155
I moved this summer and my work hours dropped from 55-60+ to roughly 40 a week and it is life changing. I get just as much work done and I have more free time.
 

lunarworks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,102
Toronto
I had something completely different in mind when I saw the headline "burnout generation". Millennials aren't that into weed, are they?
 

shaneo632

Weekend Planner
Member
Oct 29, 2017
28,971
Wrexham, Wales
I work for myself and really started to suffer from burnout after Christmas. I actually took a proper weekend for the first time in months and I feel great, gonna try and keep it up for the year if I can schedule my time better during the weekdays.
 

spam musubi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,380
Life sux, then you die. This is not a condition unique to a specific generation in a specific culture.

You didn't read the article, did you? The economic circumstances of this generation are different from previous ones. Your mentality is the exact one this article calls out for being out of touch and short sighted.
 
Mar 9, 2018
606
I'm currently experiencing this myself, in a way. Didn't go to College because I wanted to become a chef, passed culinary school, and started working in the kitchen since my first semester. Haven't done any odd jobs in the last 7 years, just qorked on and off in various eatablisments. 2 months unemployed now, and I still cannot get myself to do various errands in the house to help my mother out. The expectations from management across the board that we are gonna work long hours for peanuts plus the already high stress nature of working in a kitchen is damn near suicidal, and it breaks you eventually.

I went to culinary school too. I'm attempting to use a restaurant job now to pay for college to escape. We had a chef committ suicide. It is a real reality that with the demands that way of escaping may be the only route.
 

Granadier

Member
Nov 4, 2018
1,605
Things that should've felt good (leisure, not working) felt bad because I felt guilty for not working; things that should've felt "bad" (working all the time) felt good because I was doing what I thought I should and needed to be doing in order to succeed.

Holy fuck, this hurts because of how real it is. Sitting here in a coffee shop on a Sunday morning working because I am worried about falling behind at my job.
 

Bandage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,626
The Internet
We were left with a world and economy that are literally burning around us and still expected to give "110%" for no actual gains.
Fuck that noise.
I refuse to do anymore than is absolutely necessary.
 

jayu26

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,587
Is this just a US thing? Europe here, I don't know anyone who works more than 40 hours a week. I'm too tired after work to do anything productive like learning an instrument and I do feel guilty about it but that's not quite a burnout.

I also feel that a lot of millenials like me are underachievers because we've had so many distractions from entertainment and the internet. I figure that if I were more intelligent like a lot of you I would have been able to resist those distractions and achieve more.
No, no God no. Don't think like this. Work for 40 hours. Work hard for 40 hours. But after that enjoy all the life's distractions. That recharges your body and mind. There is more to life than just work. You in fact do contribute to collective human intellect when you come and discuss said entertainment and distractions. You have achieved a balance. Enjoy it.
 

Fafalada

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,065
I also feel that a lot of millenials like me are underachievers because we've had so many distractions from entertainment and the internet. I figure that if I were more intelligent like a lot of you I would have been able to resist those distractions and achieve more.
IMO is not so much distractions as information over-saturation. There's too much data-stimulus, active all around, all the time. I've felt stifled by it to the point of being unable to focus on any one smaller thing a couple of times over last 2 decades, it's almost like a cycle.
 

Granadier

Member
Nov 4, 2018
1,605
I'm just not totally jiving with the complaint of life as tasks. This is a mental state and one you can work to break out of. I noted above why I think it's rhis way but some of this stuff has just always been. The author notes this a bit but the harping on it is a bit heavy. I did use to think that way but I broke it and now I try to remind friends and co workers to not get there. That cannot be fixed by any other thing other than yourself.

While I agree, this is more difficult than simply mentally changing how you view things. In the workplace you are consistently (at least in tech) compared to your colleagues from people above you (managers, directors, etc.). When those colleagues are more productive than you for whatever reason there's enormous pressure to go above and beyond to try and make up the slack to stay in good graces and continue moving forward in your career. Which then perpetuates the cycle.
 

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
I went to culinary school too. I'm attempting to use a restaurant job now to pay for college to escape. We had a chef committ suicide. It is a real reality that with the demands that way of escaping may be the only route.
Damn. I meant suicidal more in the sense that the combination is lethal enough to kill you slowly over time with more health detrimants popping up at a faster rate, but literal suicide is indeed a growing issue in our generation of cooks. I understand the long hours and high stress levels and have no issues with it, but its everything else and the amouny of bullshit surrounding some of the fast trackers which grinds you down.
 

Malajax

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,114
Yea I can't relate to this at all.

Aside from the fact that I want to eyeroll so big that my eyes might roll out of my head when people use the word 'adulting' I don't relate to this at all.

Burnout doesn't cause you to not want to do errands, it causes you not to want to work at all. What she described to me was procrastination. Or laziness.

This was addressed in the article

In their writing on homelessness, social psychologist Devon Price has said that "laziness," at least in the way most of us generally conceive of it, simply does not exist. "If a person's behavior doesn't make sense to you," they write, "it is because you are missing a part of their context. It's that simple." My behavior didn't make sense to me because I was missing part of my context: burnout. I was too ashamed to admit I was experiencing it. I fancied myself too strong to succumb to it. I had narrowed my definition of burnout to exclude my own behaviors and symptoms. But I was wrong.

Seems relevant to your particular stance as well.
 

Shrubchicken

User Requested Ban
Banned
Nov 20, 2017
162
Western Michigan
I've had co-workers try to guilt me into working longer hours, but I couldn't care less. Though, funnily enough, I'm also why they're able to leave early. I once had a brutal work schedule and I kinda miss it because it kept me busy. As long as I'm moving life forward I'm good.

I have all sorts of issues upstairs and keeping busy helps me cope with stuff. So I can totally understand.