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Feb 24, 2018
5,221
A few months back, I was discussing Snow White with some friends and in particular, the changes to the story throughout the centuries such as the fact originally her biological mother was the villain of the piece but was changed later on to a step mother being the Queen. I was surprised to find out that two of my friends were actually unaware that Snow White was that old (older since recent research suggests that it may have been loosely based on real events of Margaretha von Waldeck or Maria Sophia von Erthal).

However, this isn't exactly new for me since while in the above story, my friend didn't believe Disney had made the original story, I've seen people really believe they've created the original version of Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin. The former being especially annoying for me when trying to discuss the themes of the story and issues with the narrative in a modern setting when people keep bringing up solely elements or plot points from the Disney versions when those are not in the original literature.

Most recently today I saw in another thread people discussing the upcoming Mulan movie and it was really shocking to see that around the users their didn't seem to be aware that Mulan wasn't a creation of Disney in the 90s but a poem that was compiled by Guo Maoqian in the 11th century in Anthology of Yuefu Poetry.

I makes me wonder how many do not realise many of Disney's animated and now live actions are based on old legends, novels, folk tales, poems etc or if they do, have read or looked up the original tales and have just seen the Disney version like say with The Little Mermaid. How many people are aware the book ends very differently to the Disney film? I'm curious on how big the adaptation displacement is and is it encouraged nowadays thanks to search engines like Google that will most often list the Disney versions in from of the original version in google searches?
 

BAD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,565
USA
Yeah Disney loves to take a public domain story and cover it in imagery that they can copyright
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,208
Canada
should they honour it more? A version where Ariel, dumped by Eric for an evil witch, turns into sea foam.

The End.

fc1354f959d10b26740985ee966c3f1d.jpg
:(

I love the good work Disney does, but as a corporate entity, they're frightening.
 

TAJ

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
12,446
In the old days Disney had a whole department dedicated to sifting through public domain stories for material.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
Disney barely recognizes the existence of other studios when they talk about animation let alone the stories their stuff is based on, aside from the obligatory credit in their movies.
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,312
Part of the great thing about those stories is how they can still be relevant after centuries and part of maintaining that relevance is their continual adaptation by various people through oral tradition, written accounts, and now different movies and TV shows.
 

Syril

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,895
Part of the great thing about those stories is how they can still be relevant after centuries and part of maintaining that relevance is their continual adaptation by various people through oral tradition, written accounts, and now different movies and TV shows.
Pretty rich how the company that built itself doing that is the one responsible for eternal copyright.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,116
Yeah Disney loves to take a public domain story and cover it in imagery that they can copyright
One of the more egregious examples is The Jungle Book where they tried to gets the rights while it was still covered by Kipling's copyright, but his estate wouldn't allow it, so they just waited a couple of years for it to enter the public domain.
 

Moogle

Top Mog
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,765
It's common knowledge that Disney didn't invent Mulan, The Little Mermaid, etc. It doesn't need to be said constantly, that doesn't mean no one knew. The live action remakes are marketed as modern re-dos of their own previous adaptations, not new takes on the original material.
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,312
Pretty rich how the company that built itself doing that is the one responsible for eternal copyright.
Yeah but they can't copyright the tale Cinderella or Beauty and the Beast. They can claim the original characters and designs probably (I'm not an expert) but you could make a faithful adaptation of Cinderella right now if you wanted. I don't think there's some moral requirement for them to love the public domain just because that's where they got their stories from. Anyone else can use those same stories too. Though beware if they resemble the Disney versions lol.

I read this article a while ago and this topic reminded me of it. I think it has some interesting information on the difference between copyright and trademark which is how Disney will attempt to keep control over its characters.
 

Eidan

Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
8,559
I don't know how a person couldn't know. Even as a kid, when the Lion King came out, Disney kept advertising it as their first original story, and I understood why.
 

BasilZero

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
36,343
Omni
Yep knew this

Honestly I like the Disney versions of the stories and it seems like the originals can get other versions like the show white movie I think?
 

Lucreto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,631
Yeah I new they were based on old folk tales. I think the original Cinderella the step sisters had their eyes gouge out by birds.
 

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,836
Most people become aware of that by at least age 10, at least for the super obvious ones. I would not blame you if you didn't know Mulan and The Black Cauldron were adaptations
 

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,836
Yeah I new they were based on old folk tales. I think the original Cinderella the step sisters had their eyes gouge out by birds.
Yeah

And Jane married Clayton, Esmeralda died and Quasimodo started with her corpse until he died too, Pinocchio had the flesh stripped from his wooden frame by fish, Sleeping Beauty got woken up by childbirth from assault, Snow White's stepmother died from molten hot iron shoes as punishment, Ariel became sea foam, Hercules murdered his family, Rapunzel's mother threatened suicide while pregnant if her husband didn't steal some green for a salad, Cinderella's stepsisters mutilated their feet to fit into the slipper and also got blinded by birds, etc.

Fairy tales are fucked up
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,162
They made a huge deal about the Lion King being their first original animated movie, and that didn't turn out so well for them perception-wise.

How many are aware that many of Studio Ghibli's animated movies are adaptations as well?
 

Eidan

Avenger
Oct 30, 2017
8,559
Because not many people knew about Kimba The White Lion?
Haha because I knew all the other big Disney animated movies were based on public domain properties...though I didn't know the term "public domain" then.

And I learned about Kimba in 1996. Even then there were people on the internet eager to tell everyone about it.
 

Z-Beat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,836
Haha because I knew all the other big Disney animated movies were based on public domain properties...though I didn't know the term "public domain" then.

And I learned about Kimba in 1996. Even then there were people on the internet eager to tell everyone about it.
And also Hamlet
 

Pluto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,416
should they honour it more? A version where Ariel, dumped by Eric for an evil witch, turns into sea foam.

The End.

fc1354f959d10b26740985ee966c3f1d.jpg
:(

I love the good work Disney does, but as a corporate entity, they're frightening.
The prince didn't dump the mermaid for a witch, he just fell in love with another woman and he never loved the mermaid in the first place. She was obsessed with him and threw her life away to chase a dream. The mermaid was a creepy stalker who almost murdered the unsuspecting prince in his sleep at the end and only changed her mind at the last second.
 
Dec 2, 2017
1,544
I thought most people knew that all the princess stories are adaptations?

In Germany, most children grow up with Grimm's fairy tales and other fairy tales.

Cutting off heels, forced to dance on hot coals until you die, being rolled around in a barrel with spikes on the inside - good stuff all around.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,208
Canada
The prince didn't dump the mermaid for a witch, he just fell in love with another woman and he never loved the mermaid in the first place. She was obsessed with him and threw her life away to chase a dream. The mermaid was a creepy stalker who almost murdered the unsuspecting prince in his sleep at the end and only changed her mind at the last second.

lol sure, I get that, but do you really think that's in line with Disney's brand? ...and not to be presumptuous, but do you think most kids want a story like that?
Unless theyre doing some budget edgy teen version of the story, there's little chance this type of story is happening. But maybe the Live Action would be willing to stretch more to help fill its runtime.

The princesses sure, but Lion King, Oliver and Company, The Rescuers, etc. aren't as well known

...god I feel dumb not realizing Oliver and Co. is Oliver Twist.
 

EloKa

GSP
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,905
Many "original Disney stories" are blatant copies of german stories by the Brothers Grimm. Even the Disney castle is a rip-off copy.
But Disney managed to make those stories more child-friendly because some of those original are pretty dark and have violent twists like Snow White.
 
Dec 2, 2017
1,544
Many "original Disney stories" are blatant copies of german stories by the Brothers Grimm. Even the Disney castle is a rip-off copy.
But Disney managed to make those stories more child-friendly because some of those original are pretty dark and have violent twists like Snow White.

The Grimm brothers collected, edited and categorized them. Many aren't even german folktales. They are from all over Europe.
 

Tavernade

Tavernade
Moderator
Sep 18, 2018
8,612
I've yet to meet someone who was shocked any of them was an adaptation. Disney's pretty open about it, so while I imagine a lot of people might just not think about it, I doubt many are genuinely surprised or refuse to believe the news.

Like, is surprising to me that Bambi was a book first, but I wasn't that shocked by it.
 

CloudWolf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,593
lol sure, I get that, but do you really think that's in line with Disney's brand? ...and not to be presumptuous, but do you think most kids want a story like that?
Unless theyre doing some budget edgy teen version of the story, there's little chance this type of story is happening. But maybe the Live Action would be willing to stretch more to help fill its runtime.
Fairy tales aren't supposed to be feel good stories. They originally served as cautionary tales for children.
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,312
Many "original Disney stories" are blatant copies of german stories by the Brothers Grimm. Even the Disney castle is a rip-off copy.
But Disney managed to make those stories more child-friendly because some of those original are pretty dark and have violent twists like Snow White.

the Grimm Brothers didn't write the stories, they collected and recorded European folklore.

Fairy tales aren't supposed to be feel good stories. They originally served as cautionary tales for children.
Yeah and when they are cautionary tales from the medieval world or earlier, well, they get quite medieval. There's also some sort of fixation on evil stepmothers which I'm sure is something.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,208
Canada
Fairy tales aren't supposed to be feel good stories. They originally served as cautionary tales for children.

Again, do kids/families really want high budget versions of that?
I don't doubt SOME versions of these stories could be interesting for film/TV (and it sure as shit would be more interesting than the Live Action adaptation theyre doing now), but by and large, I don't know how much draw "dark mothergoose's cautionary tales" have for most audiences (i.e. Disney's audience).
 

scottbeowulf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,333
United States
it was really shocking to see that around the users their didn't seem to be aware that Mulan wasn't a creation of Disney in the 90s but a poem that was compiled by Guo Maoqian in the 11th century in Anthology of Yuefu Poetry.
Were you seriously surprised by this? I'd be surprised if someone didn't know Alladin had a genie in it. Not this. Your bar is too high.
 

makonero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,655
the Grimm Brothers didn't write the stories, they collected and recorded European folklore.


Yeah and when they are cautionary tales from the medieval world or earlier, well, they get quite medieval. There's also some sort of fixation on evil stepmothers which I'm sure is something.
Lots of these were bowdlerized into stepmothers since the original stories about biological mothers were deemed too grim for children.