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How is it difficult for Sony to have full BC with PS1 & PS2 games, yet Microsoft can have BC with OG Xbox & Xbox 360 games?
- Thread starter SpaceCrystal
- Start date
Xbox BC wasn't a reaction to Sony, Xbox One has dedicated hardware onboard to help with its BC containers from what I read. Its a plan that could've only been decided whilst they were leading the market during 360 gen.
Xbox Series X (and future consoles) benefiting effortlessly on day 1 shows how brilliant the work done by the team is. They support these games once and they're playable everywhere without doing any more work, they'll be compatible with new OS features that comes with every new machine and maximise extra power available.
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it wasn't intended to be. Just that MS does have this impression of it can play everything via BC when really that is only true for 360; OG Xbox is still poorly supported. Edited out vita comment if that reads better now?
Except it can, technically. The fact that the PS4 can read DVDs (and Blurays) means that it can read CDs.
Xbox (Original) and Xbox 360 BC is... unique, with how it's handled, which is why it had to be approved case by case basis. Admittedly a massive amount of the library is now available and playable, but a lot of work had to be done to get them to the point that they could do so. That said, PS1 and PS2 should be, in theory, easy for Sony to pull off directly through emulation, given their internal documentation available.
We also know Sony has a working PSP emulator that the system supports and some games released also make use of currently. PS3 and Vita, provided the leaked speaks of the CPU and GPU are accurate for the PS5, might also make this a reality via emulation as well. It's been hinted that Sony's past library will be largely playable and I'm hoping it's through direct console access rather than going something similar to how PS Now handles it.
Regardless, I'm hoping Sony makes the right calls for the PS5. This was my one major gripe with PS4. I could understand if they at least made PS1 and PS2 available, with PS3 being difficult (though arguably could eventually taken the approach Microsoft did with that, though it'd mean a case-by-case basis roll out), but they did the bare minimum, made it difficult to do the PS2 on PS4 for developers (reportedly due to the trophy requirements) and then many games planned (either announced or found out via rating agencies) never got released. This is one area I want Sony to improve upon, but I feel like I don't trust them to do so. I want to be proven wrong, especially given a number of people's comments suggests otherwise.
We also know Sony has a working PSP emulator that the system supports and some games released also make use of currently. PS3 and Vita, provided the leaked speaks of the CPU and GPU are accurate for the PS5, might also make this a reality via emulation as well. It's been hinted that Sony's past library will be largely playable and I'm hoping it's through direct console access rather than going something similar to how PS Now handles it.
Regardless, I'm hoping Sony makes the right calls for the PS5. This was my one major gripe with PS4. I could understand if they at least made PS1 and PS2 available, with PS3 being difficult (though arguably could eventually taken the approach Microsoft did with that, though it'd mean a case-by-case basis roll out), but they did the bare minimum, made it difficult to do the PS2 on PS4 for developers (reportedly due to the trophy requirements) and then many games planned (either announced or found out via rating agencies) never got released. This is one area I want Sony to improve upon, but I feel like I don't trust them to do so. I want to be proven wrong, especially given a number of people's comments suggests otherwise.
Not including BC was a business decision, it's nothing to do with technical limitations. Microsoft weren't going to include it either until the Xbox One began to struggle and they needed to win back customers.
But, I hope the mindset is changing and we can one day have all our playstation games on one console.
But, I hope the mindset is changing and we can one day have all our playstation games on one console.
No. They can't just turn it on at a later date. Xbox One was fitted with hardware specifically for BC way before anyone had an idea about market performance.
Xbox One backwards compatibility: how does it actually work?
One of the most memorable of E3 reveals also happens to be one of the greatest technological achievements of the curren…
www.eurogamer.net
I will be really disappointed if PS5 doesn't have full BC.
it would be nice to retire my old PS2, play those few PS3 games I missed out on, and sell my PS4.
it would be nice to retire my old PS2, play those few PS3 games I missed out on, and sell my PS4.
What is so hard to get?
People don't want to pay for same sames again and don't want to lose their library of games just because new console came out
It's really sad how Sony just don't really care much about BC, like people said they just don't get why we want to play old games.
Imagine Steam removing all games that's more than 10 years old because they feel like it doesn't drive new users to the platform.
Imagine Steam removing all games that's more than 10 years old because they feel like it doesn't drive new users to the platform.
Who is "we"? How many are you? How much would you spend for old games? Would it reduce your willingness to leave the PS ecosystem resp. would it trigger you to switch from Xbox to PS if it was available?
Again, it's not that "Sony doesn't care", businesses don't work that way. They obviously crunched the numbers I was asking you and came to the conclusion it's not worth the effort. Easy as that.
It hasn't. The talking point is why doesn't Sony have any form of BC whatsoever. I doubt people would be disappointed with hundreds of PS3 games being compatible at no extra charge on PS4.
The current president of SIE doesnt understand why anyone would want to play ancient games. That's the reason why. The Xbox division at Microsoft values more their retro catalogue than Sony does.
This. You don't lose your library with any other form of media No matter the device. I've been harping on this since the X1 and PS4 came out. I was saying it's absurd you boot up your new console with zero games.
If you're looking at this from a purely pragmatic standpoint, Xbox/MS cares more about their retro catalogue because they're attempting to build the "Netflix of gaming", services are obviously a lot more important to their direction of their brand, so having as many games as possible on their services (old or new) makes so much sense. An attempt to bring it into parity with the competition, probably just as important. For Sony, even though it makes sense to have as many games as possible to purchase/play for the current audience to bring in the money on hardware and services, it would seem not so much. For them the efforts don't weigh in their favour. Who knows what the next-generation will bring though.
PS1 is simple to emulate, but the PS2 isn't. PCSX2 can get you through a lot of games on the PC-side, but lots of games either don't play right, require hacks of some sort, or have glitches. The PS2 was an architectural mess much like the PS3, only developers had to shut up about it since there was no competition.
Microsoft has a few advantages when it comes to BC since the OG Xbox and the XB1 both have x86 CPUs, and the 360 and XB1 both have Radeon GPUs.
PS2 and PS3 BC would probably require the Microsoft approach. It would also ensure the game's are relicenced for the future.
Microsoft has a few advantages when it comes to BC since the OG Xbox and the XB1 both have x86 CPUs, and the 360 and XB1 both have Radeon GPUs.
PS2 and PS3 BC would probably require the Microsoft approach. It would also ensure the game's are relicenced for the future.
No they don't, which is why they don't work straight from the disc and why not all games are supported. The games aren't dumped to run, they're modified (and re-licensed) to work on X1. Doesn't matter if the work done of minimal, it is required so the console is not actually backwards compatible... If it was I would be able to pop in my copy of Eternal Sonata on an X1 and play
It's implied when you just say the original PS3 had PS1 BC. Especially since it's a common mistake people make, thinking that Sony removed all BC from the PS3 Slim, when they only removed PS2 BC.
That was more towards it having PS1 and PS2 BC compared to later revisions, I know as a whole it kept PS1 BC.
I really hope they can bring it back for the PS5.
It's not hard at all for them, they just don't care, and they don't think their customers would either.
They had custom hardware specifically inside the Xbox one for the sole purpose of playing 360 games.
Must have panicked then got in a time machine
The PS4 was made in a real big financial squeeze time for Playstation and Sony at large. As such its always felt behind the PS3 and even the Vita on an O/S level. Not having PS1 backwards compatability for instance was baffling.
Its been a big turnaround, so I'm expecting PS5 to bring the absolute noise in this manner. I hope its disc based emulation for all previously Playstations to ressurrect all the fallen licensed games too.
Its been a big turnaround, so I'm expecting PS5 to bring the absolute noise in this manner. I hope its disc based emulation for all previously Playstations to ressurrect all the fallen licensed games too.
It just seems disingenuous of Microsoft to give us access to old games on a new machine when they could be bundling access to their time travel platform so I can go back to 2007 and source the original hardware. Like, what's their angle?
They wanted to include it, hence the implementation of 360 features into One hardware.
Sony couldn't do it for PS3, that was not a business decision. The PS2 approach was a business decision and a bad one, too, in how it was executed.
Im shocked to see no one is complaining that evil Microsoft did not make Kinect games backwards compatible. This is an outrage! Phil please send in your resignation now and bring back Mattrick our true god king
Starting with this generation that's about to end and going forward, the PS4/XB1 does not play games off of the disc, but instead plays them installed off of the hard drive. The emulation will follow the same course, so hoping for disc based emulation is setting yourself up for disappointment given the evidence.
It just about a decision. Sony had the means to do it but they don't want to because it doesn't make business sense to them
"Disc based emulation" is perhaps the wrong phrasing, but that it does the usual "checks disc, downloads game" process, rather than it all having to be digital content relicensed because thats a hell of a lot of games lost to the sands of time. The disc way is the only way to bypass licensing issues created by 25 years of shuffle.
I don't think this is so much an issue with PlayStation (1), but Sony's decision to use such convoluted architectures with PlayStation 2 and PlayStation 3 probably plays a huge part in the difficulty Sony has in offering backwards compatibility. While I won't claim that Microsoft doesn't put a lot of work into backwards compatibility, I will say that Microsoft has always used DirectX and didn't enter the console space until 3D graphics were a known quantity. I think this conversation would be much different if Microsoft had jumped into the console space earlier. Just look at older systems like the Atari Jaguar, which were designed well before 3D graphics hardware was standardized and required a lot more guesswork from the developers with regard to what a system needed in order to generate 3D graphics.
I don't think theres anything technical about it.
Sony could obviously get it if they wanted to, and anyone pretending otherwise clearly has an agenda.
The truth is it probably just isn't worth it. Most people won't value PS1/2 BC as much as PS4 BC or new games.
Sony could obviously get it if they wanted to, and anyone pretending otherwise clearly has an agenda.
The truth is it probably just isn't worth it. Most people won't value PS1/2 BC as much as PS4 BC or new games.
As much as I understand why Sony doesn't focus on it, I think as such a huge brand in gaming history they kind of owe it to us that they can keep legacy games alive and playable going forward. Enough of new generations of hardware meaning old games can no longer be played on the modern hardware.
It might not be an immediate money spinner or return their investment but I think as a positive piece of PR it would be priceless. I hope Microsoft's endeavours on this have changed Jim Ryan's stance on this.
I'm not expecting disc playback to work but that would be super sweet even if more and more irrelevant as time goes on, but what they really should be doing is getting as many old games as possible available to buy digitally and licensed so we can buy them once and own them forever on PlayStation hardware and through PS Now streaming in future. Put the leg work in Sony, let us play most of the classic games we remember. Go on.
It might not be an immediate money spinner or return their investment but I think as a positive piece of PR it would be priceless. I hope Microsoft's endeavours on this have changed Jim Ryan's stance on this.
I'm not expecting disc playback to work but that would be super sweet even if more and more irrelevant as time goes on, but what they really should be doing is getting as many old games as possible available to buy digitally and licensed so we can buy them once and own them forever on PlayStation hardware and through PS Now streaming in future. Put the leg work in Sony, let us play most of the classic games we remember. Go on.
I think for that to work the game would have to be uploaded to Sony's servers and wrapped in an emulator to be downloaded and played but would require publishing agreements and this is where the publishing, licensing, streaming issues come into play. There's no way getting around that.
Sure but they're pretty easily worst in class about it now. PS2onPS4 was expensive and quickly abandoned, the PS Classic was horribly handled and tanked completely as a result, the long support of PS Classics/Game Archives needlessly ended, a focus on premium remasters and remakes (sometimes even using a lag inducing stock PSP emu), no real promise or indication for anything past PS4 on PS5. Sony being this bad now on legacy content is shocking given what they were doing a decade earlier, it only hammers home how fast and far they've fallen.
Sony didn't need to since they are selling/sold the most consoles this gen
Now to ensure people buy the PS5 they'll announce total BC as a key feature
like Nintendo and the vc/classics on switch, they are selling a ton and don't need to put it on switch until sales slow down
Now to ensure people buy the PS5 they'll announce total BC as a key feature
like Nintendo and the vc/classics on switch, they are selling a ton and don't need to put it on switch until sales slow down
Did Sony ever put out a similar poll for their users? If they have, I missed it.
I find it hard to believe that BC isnt important to most of Sony userbase, with how vast and quality a library they have through their prior generations. Unless most of their userbase now falls within only PS4 experience.
Is this some kind of defense? A billion dollar multinational company doesn't find a pro-consumer move to be profitable enough so they shouldn't be criticized for not doing it?
edit - watch this video starting at the 1:30 mark:
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I really hate Modern Sony and how little they care about their legacy, Playstation has so much history it NEEDS to be preserved and carried on with their new consoles, especially now that everyone is trying really hard to push this ecosystem thing. Just make it compatible with the Ps2 and Ps1 classics that are already on the Ps3 Store.
Nintendo's gone in a different direction on Switch, retiring Virtual Console in favor of a value added subscription model tied into their online services. They're not going to suddenly show up with a Switch VC, they're just going to continue beefing up their NSO offerings. They also have well done dedicated classic microconsoles for consumers who want them although we don't know if they're going to continue those.
As others have said, it wasn't easy for MS to get BC on the Xbox 1.
I hope Sony have been working on this and the PS5 has BC with PS1,2 and 3 games.
I think the biggest hurdle is going to be with the licensing for older obscure games. I'm hoping we'll get a massive back catalogue of games to purchase digitally day one. That's the dream anyway.
I hope Sony have been working on this and the PS5 has BC with PS1,2 and 3 games.
I think the biggest hurdle is going to be with the licensing for older obscure games. I'm hoping we'll get a massive back catalogue of games to purchase digitally day one. That's the dream anyway.
Our King Mattrick will also restore the Xbox 360 HD DVD Player back to it's formal glory!!!
I know this goes a bit off topic, but would love to see Nintendo put the Soul Blazer trilogy up online or see them released like the Mana Collection. And yes, I mean Terranigma, as well.