How is it difficult for Sony to have full BC with PS1 & PS2 games, yet Microsoft can have BC with OG Xbox & Xbox 360 games?

[SpaceCrystal]

Forgive me if I'm wrong on this, but...

The PS4 is more than powerful enough to have emulators for all PS1 & PS2 games on it, yet they don't offer it to PS4 owners & only offers part of the PS1/PS2 game selection by buying it through the PS Store. Microsoft however, offers Original Xbox & Xbox 360 games on Xbox One & is about to have BC with OG Xbox, Xbox 360 & Xbox One games on Xbox Series X, & can even use their original gaming discs.

Sony with PS5, however? Just offers BC with PS4, yet no word on full BC within PS1/PS2 games. I get not having BC with PS3 games, as I don't think that even PS5 will be powerful enough to properly emulate the cell processor, but for PS1 & PS2, it's unacceptable, & Sony should get on board with it. They can easily do so without having the Emotion Engine & the Graphics Synthesizer hardware.

Sorry if this has been done before.

 

[JeffGubb]

It was not easy for Microsoft to have that BC. A dedicated team developed the emulation and worked for years getting approvals on a game-by-game basis

 

[TheInfinityGauntlet]

, & Sony should get on board with it.

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almost like they're planning on it

 

[zombiejames]

"Easily"? I think you're underestimating the serious amount of time and effort MS put into their BC efforts.

 

[BasilZero]

There was no difficulty considering modders were able to do it.


They just didnt want to do it cause it would be easier/cheaper for individual companies to do ports and remasters and plus they didnt feel like they should because they were ahead of the competition.

 

[Proven]

Microsoft has an awesome BC team it's not as easy as it looks

 

[Zalman]

As others have pointed out, it's not a straightforward feature to implement, but the real reason why it hasn't happened is that they're the market leader.

 

[Expy]

It's not really backward compatibility, it's actually making the games forward compatible, hence why you can't play off the disk and need to download the entire digital versions of the games.

 

[Strings]

PS1 and PS2 aren't a problem - they have pretty great to solid emulators for both. PS3 is the only one that's super difficult.

The PS2 stuff is limited on PS4 because they wanted them all to have trophies and stuff, which devs have to go and add.

 

[Belthazar90]

This has been done before, multiple times. We don't know to what extent the new consoles (both of them) will be backwards compatible, nothing is confirmed or denied and where did you just pull that info about XSX being fully Backwards compatible from?

While we're at it: Xbox One is not backwards compatible to any console, Microsoft's BC program basically ports select games to the X1 allowing you to use the old discs as keys to access the new port.

 

[YukiroCTX]

I get the feeling it wasn't a priority for Sony which is disappointing because Sony are very much capable of doing so. PSV had PS1 and PSP digital BC done well so that's at least possible.

 

[tim1138]

This has been done before, multiple times. We don't know to what extent the new consoles (both of them) will be backwards compatible, nothing is confirmed or denied and where did you just pull that info about XSX being fully Backwards compatible from?

While we're at it: Xbox One is not backwards compatible to any console, Microsoft's BC program basically ports select games to the X1 allowing you to use the old discs as keys to access the new port.

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From Monday's press release:

Four generations of gaming: Our commitment to compatibility means existing Xbox One games, including backward-compatible Xbox 360 and original Xbox games, look and play better than ever before. Your favorite games, including titles in Xbox Game Pass, benefit from steadier framerates, faster load times and improved resolution and visual fidelity – all with no developer work required. Your Xbox One gaming accessories also come forward with you.

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[3rdDimension]

It also had to be a business decision. Services like PS Now would be cannibalised if the PS4 had full backwards compatibility.

 

[TimPV3]

I get not having BC with PS3 games, as I don't think that even PS5 will be powerful enough to properly emulate the cell processor

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[Okabe]

Aint nothing easy about it

 

[Cranster]

There is nothing easy about it. Plus there are legalities involved from developers and publishers with the way microsoft handled it this generation.

 

[Nanashrew]

There was nothing easy about it. There was a lot of time and money put into it, something Sony didn't want to invest in, and felt they didn't have too because they were in the lead. They even gave up really early on with their PS Classics line too by making it troublesome with the addition of trophies.

 

[Bowl0l]

OP forgotten that Microsoft probably need to relicense the games so that they can host it in their servers.

 

[RedSwirl]

Doesn't the Xbox One actually still have a little bit of Xbox 360 hardware in it specifically put there to facilitate BC?

But that indeed doesn't explain why Sony can't let you play PS1 and PS2 games on PS4 when it has fully-software-based emulators for those consoles on far weaker machines.

My best guesses are:

1. Licensing -- Sony only licensed those digital PSN classics to be sold for PS3 and PSP. I think the PS1 games had to be re-licensed for the Vita on a game-to-game basis.

2. Sony just didn't want to go through the trouble of porting its existing emulators to the PS4.

3. Sony doesn't want anyone playing games on PS4 in 480 or 240p or without trophies, which would explain the 1080p PS2 games.

 

[RedHeat]

There's nothing easy about it. MS started developing "BC" for the Xbox One since before it's release and only recently have we seen the fruits of their labors

 

[Dr Pears]

It's far from easy for Microsoft too I think, they need to go through liscensing and stuff. And since it's not native BC, they need a team to touch up and rework the games to work on newer consoles. Sony probably think theyd rather have a team make new games rather than work on old games.

Microsoft's BC is far from perfect. I keep getting disappointed when most of my fave games from last gens isn't supported. Not a single Tony Hawk game or Need for Speed game is on BC. I wanted to try Project Gotham Racing and many other games too only to look it up and see that theyre not supported.

 

[Deleted member 21709]

I don't think 'easily' applies here, Microsoft put a lot of work and effort in. They nailed it, and it is what got me back in the Xbox eco-system.

Sony still wonders why we want to play these old games.

 

[ManOfWar]

PS1, PS2, PSP, PS Vita are all easy. PS4 should require a bit more engineering.

So I guess it isn't a priority?

The though one is the PS3.

 

[Bitch Pudding]

Sony probably just did some market research and came up with the conclusion that it isn't worth the effort, even if a competitor does it in order to create an USP.

 

[Kyry]

I thought Series X wasn't actually BC, just will play the XB1 versions of older Xbox games.

Like if it there isnt an executable downloadable for XB1, it wont work on Series X either.

 

[BurritoBushido]

Easily is not the right word. They have a dedicated team that does dev work on each game to make them backward compatible.

 

[Jawmuncher]

My dream is for Sony to go all out and offer everything on PSN playable on PS5 including Vita (We already have thepstv). That way companies could effectively start using the playstation brand as a legacy seller like steam. Just list on the store page what the game does and doesn't support, people will be fine with options.

 

[Edward850]

While we're at it: Xbox One is not backwards compatible to any console, Microsoft's BC program basically ports select games to the X1 allowing you to use the old discs as keys to access the new port.

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The Xbox One BC is most definitely not ports. They are absolutely the original games running in a specially designed hypervisor (and apparently some static recompilation of shaders?). The discs are used as keys strictly because (by my guess) the Xbox One must use a specially packaged version of the game which the disc cannot provide. The limits to this, as far as we know, is simply testing, tweaking the emulation and licensing.

 

[skeezx]

honestly i'd rather just download/stream ps1/2 games than excavate them from my parent's basement or wherever they are

not to diminish the importance of BC but you have to factor in, how many people truly have their old shit lying ready in workable condition

 

[Gay Bowser]

"easily"

It's because Sony is lazy devs, amirite

 

[Jade1962]

The Xbox One BC is most definitely not ports. They are absolutely the original games running in a specially designed hypervisor (and apparently some static recompilation of shaders?). The discs are used as keys strictly because (by my guess) the Xbox One must use a specially packaged version of the game which the disc cannot provide. The limits to this, as far as we know, is simply testing, tweaking the emulation and licensing.

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Wouldn't that mean it's not really BC then. You can't just put the disk in and play and it's on a game by game basis. On PS2 and the original PS3 you put your disk in and go.

 

[Temperance]

Sony still wonders why we want to play these old games.

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TRUTH

 

[Stoopkid]

Easier to license 360 games compared to 20 year old plus games.

 

[Heretic]

PSNow means it's highly unlikely.

 

[Scottoest]

The OG Xbox isn't too difficult to do BC for, though it does require work. It was the Xbox 360 BC that was kind-of a miracle they ever got to work efficiently enough that it didn't tank performance.

Didn't Sony basically say outright that they didn't think their customers cared about BC that much, a couple of years ago? I seem to recall something to that effect, and it wasn't even much more diplomatically worded than that.

As for the PS5, I suspect (hope?) it'll at least do PS1 and 2 games. The PS3 is still the big wild card, because of the Cell, and whether Sony cares enough to put in the engineering work and cost to work through it.

And of course, old games are a big part of the value proposition of PS Now, so any BC program would cannibalize that.

 

[Geist 6one7]

From Monday's press release:

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This just says that the already backward compatible 360 and Xbox games will work on Series X.

 

[LukeOP]

because Sony doesn't want to pay to include a dvd and cd reader?

 

[Radd Redd]

You seen how Sony feels about old games with the ps classic.

 

[J_ToSaveTheDay]

It was not easy for Microsoft to have that BC. A dedicated team developed the emulation and worked for years getting approvals on a game-by-game basis

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Ok, glad to see this as first reply. I only vaguely recall the timeline for backwards compat on XB1 being that the devs on Rare Replay made some pretty good breakthroughs to make some of the Xbox 360 ports of their older games work as part of the collection, then that early pass of the tech was applied to some other older titles but with very mixed results, and then somewhere there was some eureka moment that happened around the launch of the XB1S where they just started reliably working well, and there were articles exposing that it was the result of some intense work and coding genius that allowed it to happen and become more and more efficient, and then Microsoft really starting a hardcore effort to reach out to devs and publishers of older titles to renew licensing to get them rereleased.

Not at all effortless. Sony just apparently doesn't see much potential for success in making the same effort, I guess.

 

[GarthLordOfTheSith]

Because Sony just does not care about PS1 and PS2 games. The half assed PS2-On-PS4 program is proof enough.


Hopefully they prove me wrong with the PS5 so I can retire the PS2 portion of my PS3.

 

[Edward850]

Wouldn't that mean it's not really BC then. You can't just put the disk in and play and it's on a game by game basis. On PS2 and the original PS3 you put your disk in and go.

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You can already use the discs, even original Xbox discs and Xbox Live purchases are all automatic, you just can't play every game. Which is already normal for BC since the Xbox360 and frankly even the PS2 had some PS1 games it couldn't run.

 

[neptunez]

The PS4 and by proxy the PS5, cannot read CD-ROM media.

 

[Judau]

This has been done before, multiple times. We don't know to what extent the new consoles (both of them) will be backwards compatible, nothing is confirmed or denied and where did you just pull that info about XSX being fully Backwards compatible from?

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It's my understanding that whatever OG Xbox and 360 games are BC on XB1 will also be BC on the Series X, plus maybe some new additions as well. I think maybe OP might have misunderstood that.

While we're at it: Xbox One is not backwards compatible to any console, Microsoft's BC program basically ports select games to the X1 allowing you to use the old discs as keys to access the new port.

Click to shrink...

If I'm not mistaken, the BC games on XB1 are all being emulated. I guess you could say that they're "ported", but for all intents and purposes, they work in much the same way as what you might expect backwards compatibility to work. For example, playing a game on the 360 and then on the XB1 won't get you two separate achievement lists like it would for ports.

 

[SlipperyMoose]

I don't think it's easy but I do see Sony implementing backwards compatibility with the PS5 in some sort or fashion.

 

[OutToLunch]

There's nothing easy about it. MS started developing "BC" for the Xbox One since before it's release and only recently have we seen the fruits of their labors

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Actually BC seems like a panic response to them losing a ton of market share. It seemed like a desperate attempt for them to remind everyone how great the 360 and provide something different compared to ps4.

also they've wrapped up BC support. Not sure I would say we've only recently seen the fruits of their labor...

 

[LilScooby77]

It also had to be a business decision. Services like PS Now would be cannibalised if the PS4 had full backwards compatibility.

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Maybe a possible download option for all those ps3 games would help.

 

[Askherserenity]

Sony didn't think it was a priority at all and are now just trying to play catch up while Microsoft has the tech now and is making it better.

I imagine the BC on the series X is going to be pretty nuts.

 

[LiquidSolid]

How is it difficult for Sony to have full BC with PS1 & PS2 games, yet Microsoft can easily have BC with OG Xbox & Xbox 360 games?

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Uh, you do realise that full BC and the XB1's BC are two very different things, right? Full BC is basically where you have 100% (or close enough to) BC, like the PS2 and PS3 had with the PS1 library. Microsoft's solution is partial BC, where they add individual games on a case by case basis depending on what they can get licensed and running properly in their environment. Even ignoring how much work went into Microsoft's initiative, demanding that Sony have full BC because Microsoft has partial BC is ridiculous.

Also, Sony did actually have their own partial PS2 BC initiative earlier this gen, they just weren't as customer friendly (as you HAD to buy them from the store, even if you already owned them on PS2 and even PS3) and didn't dedicate anywhere near the resources into it that Microsoft did, so we only got a handful of games out of it and then they shelved it when it didn't pay off.

 

[The Pet of the Month]

Actually BC seems like a panic response to them losing a ton of market share. It seemed like a desperate attempt for them to remind everyone how great the 360 and provide something different compared to ps4.

also they've wrapped up BC support. Not sure I would say we've only recently seen the fruits of their labor...

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The Xbox One supports the 360 texture format in it's hardware, and I think that needs to be implemented way before the console's May 2013 reveal.

I would not be surprised to see the program restart after the team is done working on the Xbox Series X/Lockhart compatibility with One software!

 

[inner-G]

Aint nothing easy about it

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Plus MS only has made a % of games work as BC and the PS1/2 libraries are thousands and thousands of games