How Insomniac shoud handle police and crimes in Spider-Man sequel ?

[CaptainKashup]

Every since Insomniac's Spider-Man launch in 2018, there's has been multiple threads about some representation that didn't feel quite right for a lot of people here.
There was a thread about the cops and the watch tower around town.
Then there was another thread Spider-Man going against "petty crimes" like drug-dealing.
When Miles Morales released, there was a whole discussion about his father being in the police and that not sitting well with some people.
And right now, there's a thread about the representation of prisonners in the game.

Now, a lot of us have contrasting opinions about some of these issues.
Some believes that it being a comic-book game where everything is exagerated means that we shouldn't take it seriously, while others believes that even if it's a comic-book game, these issues should be addressed like in the real-world.
And with Insomniac actively working on the sequel as we speak, I wanted to make a larger thread about this whole thing.

A lot of Spider-Man characters are tied to the police forces. Some of them already appeared, like Yuri Watanabe and Jefferson Davis.
And others like Jean DeWolff and Captain George Stacy, father of Gwen Stacy, will probably make an appearance in the future of the franchise.
And Spider-Man whole deal is being a ground level hero, his whole dealing is going around the neighborhood and stopping what he believes to be unlawful.

With these things in mind, I can't help but ask how should it all be handled, Era ?
What should they about the important characters that happens to be cops and the whole going around time stopping crimes ?

 

[Don Fluffles]

Make mini missions in which you spot and expose pigs harassing and assaulting innocent bystanders.

 

[Secretofmateria]

The cops shouldnt be a factor except as a villainous force. they should Turn on spiderman, and spidey should use the app ganke built. He shouldnt be busting drug deals, weapon deals are fair game

 

[Finale Fireworker]

I think the answer to this is already baked in to the universe: Spider-Man is a vigilante who police perceive as a public threat. His cooperation with them should end and they should become enemy NPCs like any other. Police not cooperating and treating costumed heroes like a menace or a danger to society is not foreign or unusual for any superhero canon.

It can either be part of the story itself (like a Venom storyline) or it can just be an incidental element to the universe. Spider-Man and the NYPD working together is a tenuous relationship already and is very easy to break away from without it becoming the center of attention.

And like any superhero, the emphasis should be on saving people. Not "cleaning up the streets" - so Spider-Man's environmental or filler missions should be rooted in rescue rather than law and order.

 

[That1GoodHunter]

Spider-Man's links to the police from the first game

Spoiler: SM Spoilers

are gone. Yuri has gone rogue (and maybe villain), and Jefferson is dead. Peter has no more allies in the police department. If anything he is going to actively clash constantly with them as he tries to reform/not go too hard on Yuri and Harry vs the cops trying to take them out

 

[Weiss]

Dramatically reducing the amount of positive depictions of police in the series and cut the egregious copaganda like "Spider-Man helps install police surveillance across Manhattan."

 

[GurrenSwagann]

If you see a crime in progress you should stop them. Friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man doesn't ignore crime. Having more clashes with the bad cops would be good though, I think.

 

[Kewlmyc]

From what I've played of Miles Morales so far, outside of his late father being a police officer, the police aren't really painted as on your side. Yeah, they show no complete corruption, but unlike the first game, they aren't friendly with Spider-Man. Most of the time they help you, they tell you to piss off and that they don't need your help.

Also people aren't comfortable with his late father being a police officer? Did they want this game to recon that considering how big of a plot point it was in the original?

 

[QuigleyMcShine]

A change of setting could help. Get out of NY, possibly out of the US.

 

[CaptainKashup]

Spider-Man's links to the police from the first game

Spoiler: SM Spoilers

are gone. Yuri has gone rogue (and maybe villain), and Jefferson is dead. Peter has no more allies in the police department. If anything he is going to actively clash constantly with them as he tries to cover/not go too hard on Yuri and Harry.

Click to shrink...

He's definitely not going to

Spoiler

cover for Yuri. She wants to kill people, that goes against everything Spidey's stand for.

 

[Kinthey]

I think the answer to this is already baked in to the universe: Spider-Man is a vigilante who police perceive as a public threat. His cooperation with them should end and they should become enemy NPCs like any other. Police not cooperating and treating costumed heroes like a menace or a danger to society is not foreign or unusual for any superhero canon.

It can either be part of the story itself (like a Venom storyline) or it can just be an incidental element to the universe. Spider-Man and the NYPD working together is a tenuous relationship already and is very easy to break away from without it becoming the center of attention.

And like any superhero, the emphasis should be on saving people. Not "cleaning up the streets" - so Spider-Man's environmental or filler missions should be rooted in rescue rather than law and order.

Click to shrink...

Beating up cops just because they want to arrest spidey for unlawful vigilantism would be pretty weird. You'd have to make them corrupt first to justify the beating, similar to how it was done with the private security forces in the games.

 

[It’s Time To Go]

Do the storyline where Spider-Man goes to Canada and fights the hulk.

 

[TreeMePls]

I think the answer to this is already baked in to the universe: Spider-Man is a vigilante who police perceive as a public threat. His cooperation with them should end and they should become enemy NPCs like any other. Police not cooperating and treating costumed heroes like a menace or a danger to society is not foreign or unusual for any superhero canon.

It can either be part of the story itself (like a Venom storyline) or it can just be an incidental element to the universe. Spider-Man and the NYPD working together is a tenuous relationship already and is very easy to break away from without it becoming the center of attention.

And like any superhero, the emphasis should be on saving people. Not "cleaning up the streets" - so Spider-Man's environmental or filler missions should be rooted in rescue rather than law and order.

Click to shrink...

They already set this up somewhat in DLC 3 somewhat by

Spoiler

having his main contact in the NYPD being fired and going rogue.

Could easily go on from there tbh without it being out of left field

 

[Finale Fireworker]

Beating up cops just because they want to arrest spidey for unlawful vigilantism would be pretty weird. You'd have to make them corrupt first to justify the beating, similar to how it was done with the private security forces in the games.

Click to shrink...

Thankfully the NYPD is already inherently corrupt. :P

 

[That1GoodHunter]

He's definitely not going to

Spoiler

cover for Yuri. She wants to kill people, that goes against everything Spidey's stand for.

Click to shrink...

Yeah edited the quote.

Spoiler: SM Spoilers

Meant more like reform vs outright locking her up

 

[Kurdel]

It's the product of corporate america I don't see them trying to do anything other than what they are doing now.

 

[Weiss]

Beating up cops just because they want to arrest spidey for unlawful vigilantism would be pretty weird. You'd have to make them corrupt first to justify the beating, similar to how it was done with the private security forces in the games.

Click to shrink...

They're cops so that writes itself.

 

[jph139]

Ultimately, a Spider-Man video game where action is the primary gameplay mechanic is one that hinges on the unrealistic fantasy that vigilantism is a good response to criminal behavior. That there's a whole ocean of violent criminals out there, and it would be great if someone could just beat them up and hang them out for the police to lock up.

The only real solution is to create a fantastic threat for the action gameplay - say, an alien invasion - and have the free roam Spider-Man mechanics be almost exclusively "friendly neighborhood" stuff. Help old ladies cross the street, save cats from trees, retrieve lost balloons, that sort of thing. But I don't imagine there's much appetite for that.

 

[PlayBee]

I really don't want the same map again so set the game somewhere new where Spider-Man doesn't have any sort of established relationship with law enforcement and then they can do whatever you want

 

[Mory Dunz]

Ultimately, a Spider-Man video game where action is the primary gameplay mechanic is one that hinges on the unrealistic fantasy that vigilantism is a good response to criminal behavior.

Click to shrink...

yea, the premise is weird. Taken out of the fantasy world, spider-man or batman ain't "good" lol.

 

[CaptainKashup]

Spidey is definitely not leaving New York. They're most likely going to expand the city quite a bit but that's it.
NY is Spider-Man.

 

[HockeyBird]

A change of setting could help. Get out of NY, possibly out of the US.

Click to shrink...

Where could Spiderman go where the cops aren't corrupt and abusing vulnerable citizens?

 

[Transistor]

A change of setting could help. Get out of NY, possibly out of the US.

Click to shrink...

Spidey not in NY just doesn't feel like Spidey.

 

[EvilBoris]

Make mini missions in which you spot and expose pigs harassing and assaulting innocent bystanders.

Click to shrink...

I don't want a map full of icons. It's not a Ubisoft game

 

[GattsuSama]

Just set the game in Europe at the time Miles happens and they can avoid this.

I totally understand the issue and sympathize to an extent but at least on Miles story his dad being a cop and all that comes with it seems important to the character.

The brave thing would be to tackle the subject in a mature way, but setting every cop as a villain is not the right answer I think.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

Probably have a playable Venom take care of police like in the Ultimate Spider-Man game. Where you can eat them, fold their spines backwards, toss them somewhere far, or head slam them into the ground. I can't see Spider-Man ever beating up police, be it Miles or Peter. His clone Kaine probably would rough them up if provoked, if Peter ends up having to deal with a Clone Saga in a future game...and no, don't take Spider-Man out of NY, that's fucking dumb.

 

[Rick44-4]

Beating up cops just because they want to arrest spidey for unlawful vigilantism would be pretty weird. You'd have to make them corrupt first to justify the beating, similar to how it was done with the private security forces in the games.

Click to shrink...

I think some people want police officers to be the main enemy of the game lol. For me I'm not sure why the game has to be some one to one depiction of the real world, the real world is fucked up but it doesn't Mean spiderman has to be fucked up in all the same ways. Trust me I understand why people are angry at the police especially in the usa but being so critical of spiderman for not being the same as the real world and how he should ignore all drug deals and beat up police officers isn't quite it for me.

 

[molnizzle]

And like any superhero, the emphasis should be on saving people. Not "cleaning up the streets" - so Spider-Man's environmental or filler missions should be rooted in rescue rather than law and order.

Click to shrink...

Seems like that might be asking too much from what is essentially an open world beat em up. There's still gotta be side missions with dudes to go beat up.

 

[Deleted member 79517]

Just set the game in Europe at the time Miles happens and they can avoid this.

I totally understand the issue and sympathize to an extent but at least on Miles story his dad being a cop and all that comes with it seems important to the character.

The brave thing would be to tackle the subject in a mature way, but setting every cop as a villain is not the right answer I think.

Click to shrink...

Agreed. If this is something that people legitimately want to improve, then simply flipping the switch so that the cops are all bad now isn't the way. If you want nuance, ask for nuance.

 

[CaptainKashup]

Just set the game in Europe at the time Miles happens and they can avoid this.

I totally understand the issue and sympathize to an extent but at least on Miles story his dad being a cop and all that comes with it seems important to the character.

The brave thing would be to tackle the subject in a mature way, but setting every cop as a villain is not the right answer I think.

Click to shrink...

Peter already confirms that he did nothing more then take photos during his trip, so that won't happen.
Also, the post credit scene makes it pretty clear that we're not changing settings. Even though that should be clear to everyone considering the IP

 

[Slayven]

Spidey not in NY just doesn't feel like Spidey.

Click to shrink...

Peter has fought in the sewers of nyc to literally outside the known universe. Spider man can fit anywhere.

 

[Slayven]

Just set the game in Europe at the time Miles happens and they can avoid this.

I totally understand the issue and sympathize to an extent but at least on Miles story his dad being a cop and all that comes with it seems important to the character.

The brave thing would be to tackle the subject in a mature way, but setting every cop as a villain is not the right answer I think.

Click to shrink...

Last time Spidey went Europe he almost killed Wolverine

 

[Transistor]

Peter has fought in the sewers of nyc to literally outside the known universe. Spider man can fit anywhere.

Click to shrink...

Oh, I have no doubt, but it would just seem weird to me. I mean, I'd adapt just fine, but it would just feel off at first.

 

[est1992]

I feel like y'all over analyzing this. It's an exaggerated superhero world.

If it grows into a much larger issue, maybe add some side missions exposing corrupt cops.

 

[Slayven]

Oh, I have no doubt, but it would just seem weird to me. I mean, I'd adapt just fine, but it would just feel off at first.

Click to shrink...

Spiderman was once the cornerstone of a plan of The Mad Titan Thanos to save the universe.

 

[dabri]

The Marvel Universe is so big and complicated. I've read a ton of the MM comics and even I have trouble keeping up with which universe is which, which ones combined/ ended. It's just confusing as hell. In one set of comics, Mile's loses family members. Then they are back with one line explanations. It's just not reflective of the real world in the least. I don't see the harm in having a fictional world where cops are generally seen/ are the good guys.
Just as I don't see a problem with a fictional world portraying people with super powers.

 

[CaptainKashup]

I doubt they'll be making cops straight-up bad guys. And I don't think they'll totally abandon Spider-Man ties to the police. Like, I don't mean working with them but

Spoiler

Yuri's story line is definitely going to have a link with the police. I wouldn't be surprised if we have to protect her from cops and protect (non-corrupted) cops from her at the same time.

 

[Transistor]

Spiderman was once the cornerstone of a plan of The Mad Titan Thanos to save the universe.

Click to shrink...

This is why I love comic lore. Anyone can be the corner of anything for any reason.

 

[Weiss]

I don't know how y'all can look at a story where someone is randomly granted incredible power and not immediately want them to use it to dismantle the fascist systems that run the country.

 

[PhazonBlazer]

I hope that crimes and open world events aren't repeated over and over. I hope they're events that happen once and then never happen again. I'm sick of stopping a helicopter that's out of control like every 10 minutes.

 

[Cantaim]

I thought the first game made the police kinda friendly to Spider-Man so that when they inevitably turn on him in a future game it strikes a bigger cord with the players.

 

[FulcrumTK]

I think some people want police officers to be the main enemy of the game lol. For me I'm not sure why the game has to be some one to one depiction of the real world, the real world is fucked up but it doesn't Mean spiderman has to be fucked up in all the same ways. Trust me I understand why people are angry at the police especially in the usa but being so critical of spiderman for not being the same as the real world and how he should ignore all drug deals and beat up police officers isn't quite it for me.

Click to shrink...

Part of the reason the real world is fucked up is that media insists on depicting cops as heroes.

 

[Sparks]

Can a fiction game have a universe in which Cops are actually good and useful? Perhaps a name change? In a world of INSANE crime like Superhero worlds are, it is a completely different universe, so it makes more sense. It's a tricky problem to tackle, but also opens the door to multitude of questions with, "Should I hurt or fight any of these people? Maybe some of them are truly kind inside or not on a bad path" which a Spider-man game is more about Pow Slam Zwip. It's an interesting dilemma though (games are weird).

 

[Kupo Kupopo]

The Marvel Universe is so big and complicated. I've read a ton of the MM comics and even I have trouble keeping up with which universe is which, which ones combined/ ended. It's just confusing as hell. In one set of comics, Mile's loses family members. Then they are back with one line explanations. It's just not reflective of the real world in the least. I don't see the harm in having a fictional world where cops are generally seen/ are the good guys.
Just as I don't see a problem with a fictional world portraying people with super powers.

Click to shrink...

thank you. 'realistic superhero stories'? there's a reason that spider-man was created as a comic book for juveniles...

 

[Scarlet Spider]

I thought the first game made the police kinda friendly to Spider-Man so that when they inevitably turn on him in a future game it strikes a bigger cord with the players.

Click to shrink...

I would lose it if they did it to Insomniac's Peter.

 

[SterlingCooper87]

I feel like y'all over analyzing this. It's an exaggerated superhero world.

If it grows into a much larger issue, maybe add some side missions exposing corrupt cops.

Click to shrink...

I would tend to agree with this -- however with gaming's top tier further looking like a playable reality just invites this criticism. Marvel, for example, has moved from comic books & cartoons into live action movies that increasingly depict its fiction as taking place in our reality. The abstraction was there in the days of cartoons & comics as the only mediums for these stories. Games & MCU films look like reality. Part of SpiderMan 2018's appeal is the really great realization of the actual NYC. Yes, Marvel fiction is in it, but for the most part NYC looks like NYC.

It's fair to criticize fantasy worlds that attempt to depict its fiction as taking place in our reality. It's dissonant that these games only depict NYPD as good, prisoners as "thugs".

 

[Enduin]

A lot of it I think requires some major changes to the gameplay and overall game structure. I love the games, but their literal on the street level gameplay is pretty poor.

Both games rely too much on these big enemy encounters that create really weird situations in the setting with enemies with rocket launchers and all sorts of high tech shit on like rooftops and having fire fights in the middle of traffic which most of the populace and setting overall not seeming to give a shit about at all. They need to have a lot more smaller scale events that actually reflect some more realistic criminal encounters that actually fit within the world.

Just run of the mill purse snatchers, B&Es and stick ups and what not. Even stupid shit like breaking up street fights. Spider-Man is really smart and clever, so more encounters where we're not just punching people in the faces but like trying to de-escalate shit and not hurt anyone. With then bigger set piece encounters that can be more woven into the larger narrative and reflected in the world better.

When it comes to cops I doubt they ever would, but they should include stuff like dirty cops and things like police brutality events. I mean if you have literal gangs and escaped convicts all over on top of super villains you would think police would be cracking down big time and in doing so abusing their powers over policing the general populace due to all of these extraordinary events.

 

[Euler007]

Are we going to pretend that the illicit drug trade isn't a violent world, dropping bodies everywhere around the globe? In my neck of the woods organised crime assassinations are about 30% of the murders. I'd be for legalizing every drug, but let's not pretend that the current criminal drug dealers are not a violent bunch.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Follow Batman's example

 

[SuperBoss]

Spider-man beating up petty criminals, what? These guys carried around guns, bombs, and rockets and attacked you with them all the time. The prisoners were all worst of the worst max security violent criminal kind, not just from any prison. You're right there when they escape they all attack him.

Some of the issues have been misrepresented. Miles' dad has always been a cop, whats wrong with that? Spider-man's friend in the force is Yuri. Both poc characters.

Yes, absolutely future games can also add more nuance to how they handle cops. And criminals (Miles' uncle being a good example). But alot of the concerns i see in the OP are just misconstrued.