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Kevin Shields

Member
Oct 27, 2017
677
I know that is a controversial thread title, but I don't know for the life of me why... I looked at two past poll threads and Halo 3 was either at the top or a very close second and Halo 2 was way down near the bottom. Halo 3 is clearly the favorite, but for me it falls behind 2 in so many ways that I can't quite wrap my mind around it. Now I am talking about original campaigns as well, but with the Anniversary edition of 2 I really find it baffling. Let me break it down this way...

Story: Halo 2 has a way more engaging story that is basically not one long battle sequence... Sure Halo 3 does have some plot, but most of it just doesn't really make that much sense. All the cool plot setups from 2 have ok wrap ups, but still overall disappointing. One example is that Gravemind is set up as a big bad that has some ancient knowledge in 2, but in 3 he is dumb enough to send his entire race to The Ark and nowhere else, to assuredley get him and his whole clan all blown up... I mean why not attack multiple places instead of sending your infested ship to one place. There's a lot of stuff I can bring up here, but overall, Halo 2 was a well told story, decent characters for the type of game Halo is, and solid writing. Of course anniversary cutscenes accentuate the story in a better way and it is presented better, but even on paper Halo 2 is vastly superior.

Locations: This may be personal, but I love me some space opera and Halo 2 was full of it with the mystery and the sci fi settings. Halo 2 upped the ante and you were traveling to alien worlds, and uncovering alien lore. It was just full epic space opera. Halo 3 has half the game on boring ass earth, and when it finally gets interesting half way through, you're almost done with the game. It felt very much like a militaristic COD version of Halo, and to me that's super boring.

Missions: This is similar to locations, and yes The Ark and The Covenant are some of the best Halo levels ever, but most of the game has mediocre missions. The earth missions are fine, but comparing Crow's Nest, inside a boring military base to any of Halo 2's exotic sci fi levels just doesn't excite me. That's not even mentioning Cortana and the other backtracking Flood mission, which are simply slogs.

Gamplay: It's a wash for me as both still have excellent Halo gunplay, which makes the other areas so glaring of me. The only portion of this is that I like Halo 2's enemies a lot more than 3... mainly Elites more than Brutes. Positves and negatives for both, but I find them pretty even.

Level Design: A wash for me... I do love the open ended levels and vehicles more in Halo 3, but it's not massively more and I find Halo 2, even in its linearity does some wonderful things.

Atmosphere: Love Halo 2 so much here, again much more sci fi atmosphere... a little darker, more desolate but much more immersive for me.


There's much more, but I'm in a hurry and I wanted to get the discussion going... I feel like I'm taking crazy pills! Just playing through MCC and finished Halo 3 and about to start Reach, which I have never played. I heard I'm in for a treat...
 

Butch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,438
I haven''t played a lot of 3, but so far the second one story is really a lot better in general. More interesting also.
 

Bedameister

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,944
Germany
I played 2 for the first time when I got the MCC two years ago. And I must say I wasn't the biggest fan of it. My main complain was that it was too hard for me. A lot of fights where really a slog to play and the enemies felt like bullet sponges. It had some cool story moments but nothing spectacular. I always liked 3 so for me that's clearly the better game.
 

Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
38,506
Ibis Island
I can give you Story and other such things in saying "This is why I prefer Halo 3 over Halo 2". But I personally always felt the campaign of 3 was weaker than 2 in-terms of playability. 3 does a lot of chokepoints to the player along with missions that drag longer than they should. While Halo 2 is more about giving you a sandbox and letting you go through it at the speed you want for the most part. Which I think even back then made up for there being less space than Halo 1 and its oftentimes big maps.

I'll never forget my first time playing Halo 3 and being treated to an invisible wall because the game didn't want me to put a certain vehicle through. Even though finding unique ways to play was half the fun of Halo 1 and 2.
 

Transistor

Hollowly Brittle
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,167
Washington, D.C.
Well, considering it's the second half of Halo 2, it makes sense that it would have the climb up to the climax and then the ending, where Halo 2 just kinda stops.

"Finishing the fight" get the fuck outta here I'm still salty about that shit 15 years later.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
Personally prefer Halo 2 as well. Story-wise, fleshing out the Covenant the way they did really made the universe feel larger.

Level wise, I'd say Halo 2 was consistent in its good quality throughout, but Halo 3 had higher highs with the Ark, Covenant and final level, Halo.

At the time however, I think it was the Earth setting that was advertised but was only like one mission, having to play as the Arbiter, the Brutes and the cliff hanger that soured people. These days, I think people appreciate it more looking back, but at the time, I can see why some folk weren't too hot on it.
 

Urishizu

Dead Drop Studios Founder
Verified
Nov 5, 2017
885
They're both wonderful single player and co-op adventures, but Halo 3 has such depth. Levels like The Covenant, The Ark, etc... with the full sandbox on display is just insane from a gameplay perspective and you have so many options on how to tackle things. They're both 10/10 experiences, but I'll always prefer 3.
 

SkyOdin

Member
Apr 21, 2018
2,680
The levels in Halo 3 are generally really fun to replay. I mean, other than the penultimate stage. As someone played through Halo 2 and 3 solely as a co-op game though, I feel like Halo 3 was better designed for that experience. Just having the Arbiter as a dedicated co-op character shows the extra effort they put in to the Halo 3 campaign.

Halo 2 was weighed down by those terrible boss fights too.
 

PeaceSeeker

Chicken Chaser
Member
Apr 17, 2018
158
I hope there was a covenant side of story telling in halo 3. On the other hands, I want more master chief side story in halo 2.

But overall, halo 2 has a better campaign than 3
 

Lothars

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,765
The ending of Halo 2 kills any positives about it, It really made hurt the game overall. Halo 3 campaign is just better. it is more substantial and overall just a better game.
 
Jan 4, 2018
8,644
Halo 3 has epic Scarab fights.

giphy.gif


But both campaigns are excellent. I loved the High Charity levels and playing the Covenant side in Halo 2.
 
OP
OP
Kevin Shields

Kevin Shields

Member
Oct 27, 2017
677
The ending of Halo 2 kills any positives about it, It really made hurt the game overall. Halo 3 campaign is just better. it is more substantial and overall just a better game.

people say this, "more substantial". What does that mean? Halo 2 seemed longer to me, more epic in scale, two playable characters. Halo 3 felt like it finally was hitting its stride on the 6th or 7th mission and then you were almost done. I felt like Halo 3 was "light", but maybe you mean gameplay and polish.
 

Pyro

God help us the mods are making weekend threads
Member
Jul 30, 2018
14,505
United States
I think Halo 2 is the best story of the original trilogy by a mile because of how much we see of Covenant society, future Earth, the Arbiter's story (I like it) intertwining with Master Chief's. Plus Cortana really comes into her own as a character with her wit and we get more human characters like Commander Keyes.

It definitely bit off more than they could chew but at least we got what we got thanks to Ed Fries delaying its by a year.
 

NeoBob688

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,639
Well, the story and soundtrack are definitely better in Halo 2. Halo 3 did have a lot of great levels (one shitty one in the Cortana level).
 

Cranster

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,788
From a gameplay aspect I understand certain reasons why. But Halo 3 also narratively feels like it's going through the motions. Let alone the entire change in voice actor and the demeanor of Truth and the horrendous Cortana mission and flat Floodgate level. While it's safe to say Halo 3 higher high's due to the Scarab battles and level design, Halo 2 overall is more consistent throughout and has a much better narrative.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,298
new jersey
Halo 2 had better world and character development. Just seeing the inner working of the covenant and playing as the Arbiter blew my mind. But I'll admit the levels weren't as designed as well as Halo 3's. Halo 3 has better levels, set pieces, and a good conclusion but Halo 2 had better lore development. Its when the game really expanded.
 

JDHarbs

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,150
Halo 3 is Halo 2's cut third act stretched out into an entire game. The third act is typically the biggest and best part of every game experience and it kind of shows. H3 has this sense of momentum, focus, and scale to it while H2 felt dragging at times doing all of the legwork to set up H3 to be the satisfying end that it was. It's also a more polished game overall because H2 had dev hell.
 

Lothars

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,765
people say this, "more substantial". What does that mean? Halo 2 seemed longer to me, more epic in scale, two playable characters. Halo 3 felt like it finally was hitting its stride on the 6th or 7th mission and then you were almost done. I felt like Halo 3 was "light", but maybe you mean gameplay and polish.
Yeah I do plus I just feel that Halo 2 ending really hurts the game and still is a negative. I just vastly prefer halo 3.
 

Adder7806

Member
Dec 16, 2018
4,126
I bought an OG Xbox with Halo 2. Was very excited. Buzz was immense. Never finished it. Put me to sleep. Since then I've never understood the praise Halo gets. Just wasn't for me I guess. Loved Destiny however.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,204
I find Halo 2 campaign to be way better than Halo 3. The story of Halo 2 is way better. Also the locations in Halo 2 are more varied.
 

Deleted member 42055

User requested account closure
Banned
Apr 12, 2018
11,215
Yeah I do plus I just feel that Halo 2 ending really hurts the game and still is a negative. I just vastly prefer halo 3.

I still remember my entire college dorm floor being entirely deflated by that damn ending, the whole floor was full of voices yelling variations of "WHAT THE FUCK ?!COME ON" all throughout release week. Multiplayer saved it though
 

Lothars

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,765
I still remember my entire college dorm floor being entirely deflated by that damn ending, the whole floor was full of voices yelling variations of "WHAT THE FUCK ?!COME ON" all throughout release week. Multiplayer saved it though
Absolutely, I never stuck with it as I did other halo games but the multiplayer was a redeeming feature of the game and definitely breathed life into it.
 

Soj

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,707
Go play the original version on an OG Xbox and you'll find your answer.
 

KDC720

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,328
Halo 3 has only 1 bad level, the rest are some of the highest highs in the series. Story really sticks the landing, 4 player co-op, Bungie's best use of the Halo sandbox

I think Halo 2's campaign is appreciated more than it was initially, but I still think it's the weakest campaign after 5. The Arbiter and all the world building proved to be great additions, but a lot the levels feel like slogs, the boss fights suck, and you can tell it had a troubled development.
 

Firima

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,475
Because Halo 2 is a fucking mess with some of the worst level design in Bungie's history. Easy peasy.
 

plagiarize

It's not a loop. It's a spiral.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,559
Cape Cod, MA
It's because of level design, gameplay and disappointment in the flat ending of 2. That's why. Points about story and character are all fair... But that isn't what most people put more value in.
 

Beyond Vast

Banned
Sep 17, 2020
24
Both have some amazing qualities, and both have some shortcomings.
Much of Halo 2's shortcomings are no longer applicable in MCC.
No more pop-in, no shock of the arbiter, no muddy textures, and no pain of waiting 3 years for the conclusion of a cliffhanger ending.
The remaster is gorgeous, the resolution and framerate is fantastic, the lighting is so much better, the arbiter is a fan favorite now, the CG cutscenes are the best in the series, and once the game ends, you can immediately start Halo 3 with the click of a button.

Time has been very kind to Halo 2. In 2004, it felt like a bit of a gut punch.

Halo 3 fixed a lot of those complaints but now with greater appreciation of some of Halo 2's elements, there is some sadness at what halo 3 left behind in terms of plot and risk taking. It went for the populist plot and more bombastic approach.

Either way, MCC makes the series a joy to revisit. We can go back and revisit the series with a new set of eyes.
 

Bruceleeroy

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,381
Orange County
Well, considering it's the second half of Halo 2, it makes sense that it would have the climb up to the climax and then the ending, where Halo 2 just kinda stops.

"Finishing the fight" get the fuck outta here I'm still salty about that shit 15 years later.

Best marketing campaign ever that led up to a story that was....uh well wtf

The Halo 2 we got was made in a year and a half. Gotta keep that in mind.

Was it really on a year and a halff!?
How is that even possible?
 
OP
OP
Kevin Shields

Kevin Shields

Member
Oct 27, 2017
677
Both have some amazing qualities, and both have some shortcomings.
Much of Halo 2's shortcomings are no longer applicable in MCC.
No more pop-in, no shock of the arbiter, no muddy textures, and no pain of waiting 3 years for the conclusion of a cliffhanger ending.
The remaster is gorgeous, the resolution and framerate is fantastic, the lighting is so much better, the arbiter is a fan favorite now, the CG cutscenes are the best in the series, and once the game ends, you can immediately start Halo 3 with the click of a button.

Time has been very kind to Halo 2. In 2004, it felt like a bit of a gut punch.

Halo 3 fixed a lot of those complaints but now with greater appreciation of some of Halo 2's elements, there is some sadness at what halo 3 left behind in terms of plot and risk taking. It went for the populist plot and more bombastic approach.

Either way, MCC makes the series a joy to revisit. We can go back and revisit the series with a new set of eyes.

this makes sense to me... good post.
 

NDA-Man

Member
Mar 23, 2020
3,090
I'm another person who came to Halo 2 late (MCC late). And... I am legitimately surprised that anyone was hype for Halo 3, because I thought Halo 2 was a slog. Storywise, it's great, but I don't think I've ever had less fun playing Halo. There were definite great spots throughout, but honestly, a huge amount of the enemies felt like obscene bullet sponges, and I just... I can't pick out a level that felt good throughout--maybe Cairo Station? Cortana in 3 is bullshit, but practically every Flood level in 2 was worse in my opinion (and I actually rather like Floodgate--even if the pure forms at the end can be a pain, they're not nearly the soul-destroying level of fuckery they were in Cortana).
 

oreomunsta

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,342
Was it really on a year and a halff!?
How is that even possible?

If I remember right, Bungie had to chuck out their first version of the game because of significant technical problems (think it was the lighting or physics engine that the OG Xbox couldn't handle and couldn't be reworked)

This was after Halo 2 was revealed and trailers had already been shown off, so Bungie was under incredible stress to deliver something ASAP