Yeah it felt like far from home was even trying to address this with Mysterio
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How does Era feel about the changes made to MCU Spider-Man?
- Thread starter DragonSJG
- Start date
Yeah it felt like far from home was even trying to address this with Mysterio
I felt like after FFH Peter kind of accepted that he doesn't necessarily need one. Like, before he was desperately looking for one in Tony or Mysterio and now he's kind of found his groove
MCU Spidey is my favorite version so far. I like the supporting characters a lot. I'm not really a fan of him having such powerful tech on hand all the time though.
that's what I took from it too
Yeah by the end of it all of his potential father figures (other than Happy) are dead or in Nick Fury's case, a bit tarnished
I bet the next standalone Spidey film is titled "Graduation"
I don't think this will happen, more so wishing for the great friendship between Johnny and Peter
We just don't see much on screen that this is a Peter who has to deal with much hardship in his life, and that's so important to the character. This version of Spider Man feels more like...a character from a 90s animated show, if that makes any sense. Its not about Ben, its that movies like the Raimi movies and Spider-Verse really show you that it is a struggle to live as Peter Parker and I do not get that in these films
I don't have a problem with it. I mean, it says it all in the title: it's the MCU version of Spider-Man. The MCU isn't a carbon copy of the comics. It's its own universe, with its own take of the characters and their interpersonal relationships and connections with one another.
I don't mind that Uncle Ben has been downplayed. We've seen that dynamic played out in previous iterations of the characters. Not to mention that Uncle Ben, even in the older films, was simply a vehicle to impart a lesson about responsibility to Peter and die.
I like that we basically get that through Tony and Peter's relationship, and because we've been living with Iron Man over the course of 10+ years, we, as an audience, have a deeper connection with him than we ever had with Uncle Ben (film version), so the impact of Spider-Man growing into his responsibilities has strong impact. Especially considering that the MCU is a condensed version of the Marvel universe. Unlike the comics, which have had 60+ years of time to build its world and characters, the films have had a fraction of that time and 23 movies to try and connect with audiences.
So as storytellers, they need to leverage what exists in their universe for maximum drama and emotional impact. So Tony "replaces" Uncle Ben, even though Uncle Ben is still felt in some way in Spider-Man's MCU appearances (like Civil War, when he talks to Tony about why he is doing what he's doing, and Homecoming implies that he is still hurting from the loss of his Uncle; and why he seems to be given a lot of leeway with some of his actions in that film regarding school, the academic decathlon team, repeatedly blowing off Liz and his other classmates/friends, etc).
FFH focuses more on the legacy Tony left in his lap, and his growing relationship with MJ.
As for MJ, I don't care that she's not Mary Jane Watson in name or personality. We've seen that version of the character in the Raimi movies (love or hate Dunsts' portrayal, they tried to adapt the social butterfly model actress version of the character). A new interpretation of her is, for me, at least, very appreciated. Zendaya does a great job playing a modern, awkward teenager version of MJ, and her and Holland have great chemistry in both HC and FFH. I also like the changes made to Flash Thompson as well (although I'm hoping they flesh his character out going forward. After FFH, I imagine they _have_ to address his relationship with Peter and Spider-Man. XD).
I have the comics. I have the cartoons. I have the video games. Seeing an updated or modified take of the Spider-Man mythos is appreciated. Not just recycling the same plots, but maintaining the core of them is, in my opinion, creative storytelling. It's why I don't mind not seeing Goblin or Venom storylines in the MCU Spidey films so far. If they do tell those stories, I imagine they'll have that MCU spin to make them feel fresh in some way.
Ultimately, I just accept that the films are the films, and they aren't going to be a 1:1 adaptation of the comics. At least they've been fun, entertaining movies that capture the spirit of Lee/Ditko era Spider-Man were they to be conceived in the modern day. Not an easy feat, yet they've managed it somehow.
I don't mind that Uncle Ben has been downplayed. We've seen that dynamic played out in previous iterations of the characters. Not to mention that Uncle Ben, even in the older films, was simply a vehicle to impart a lesson about responsibility to Peter and die.
I like that we basically get that through Tony and Peter's relationship, and because we've been living with Iron Man over the course of 10+ years, we, as an audience, have a deeper connection with him than we ever had with Uncle Ben (film version), so the impact of Spider-Man growing into his responsibilities has strong impact. Especially considering that the MCU is a condensed version of the Marvel universe. Unlike the comics, which have had 60+ years of time to build its world and characters, the films have had a fraction of that time and 23 movies to try and connect with audiences.
So as storytellers, they need to leverage what exists in their universe for maximum drama and emotional impact. So Tony "replaces" Uncle Ben, even though Uncle Ben is still felt in some way in Spider-Man's MCU appearances (like Civil War, when he talks to Tony about why he is doing what he's doing, and Homecoming implies that he is still hurting from the loss of his Uncle; and why he seems to be given a lot of leeway with some of his actions in that film regarding school, the academic decathlon team, repeatedly blowing off Liz and his other classmates/friends, etc).
FFH focuses more on the legacy Tony left in his lap, and his growing relationship with MJ.
As for MJ, I don't care that she's not Mary Jane Watson in name or personality. We've seen that version of the character in the Raimi movies (love or hate Dunsts' portrayal, they tried to adapt the social butterfly model actress version of the character). A new interpretation of her is, for me, at least, very appreciated. Zendaya does a great job playing a modern, awkward teenager version of MJ, and her and Holland have great chemistry in both HC and FFH. I also like the changes made to Flash Thompson as well (although I'm hoping they flesh his character out going forward. After FFH, I imagine they _have_ to address his relationship with Peter and Spider-Man. XD).
I have the comics. I have the cartoons. I have the video games. Seeing an updated or modified take of the Spider-Man mythos is appreciated. Not just recycling the same plots, but maintaining the core of them is, in my opinion, creative storytelling. It's why I don't mind not seeing Goblin or Venom storylines in the MCU Spidey films so far. If they do tell those stories, I imagine they'll have that MCU spin to make them feel fresh in some way.
Ultimately, I just accept that the films are the films, and they aren't going to be a 1:1 adaptation of the comics. At least they've been fun, entertaining movies that capture the spirit of Lee/Ditko era Spider-Man were they to be conceived in the modern day. Not an easy feat, yet they've managed it somehow.
Its gonna happen and we gonna get a amazing friends movie too
Ya can't tell me otherwise
I like everything they did with this version. I think Zendaya is a great MJ. Only thing I'm not too sure about...Peter and MJ don't seem to have had too many great scenes together, where they seem to have good chemistry. Perhaps it's because they're still at the awkward teenage dating part, and it'll improve, but MJ and Peter are such an iconic duo that I hope that'll change.
Don't mind most of them. I'm all for different/fresh interpretations of characters.
The one thing I do hope they start to maybe tone down or phase out is the ties to Stark, and more specifically Stark tech. I always felt like "Tony can science his way out of any problem with advanced tech" was becoming sort of a tiresome plot armor-esque issue with the MCU.
The one thing I do hope they start to maybe tone down or phase out is the ties to Stark, and more specifically Stark tech. I always felt like "Tony can science his way out of any problem with advanced tech" was becoming sort of a tiresome plot armor-esque issue with the MCU.
Sure you could but the implication of him seeking a father figure in his teens is that he needs one like most kids do. It's implied that it's inportant to his growth/development
I mean my problem with Zendeya's MJ is that we really don't know ANYTHING about her. At least in the Raimi film, we got insight into Mary Jane's abusive dad and the scene where she's in the backyard talking to Peter and she gets called away to go on a car ride, you get the sense that she's pretending to be someone she's not.
Agreed on all but Uncle Ben. I think it is fine to not have him. They just didn't replace him with anything good.
Holland is a great actor. Hell, most of them are great. I just wish they had better/more interesting scripts.
I think the biggest problem is when you have three interpretations. You're going to have these debates. It's the same problem DC's had with Superman. Christopher Reeve is seen as the definitive iconic Superman which gave them some big shoes to fill for the DCEU. Superman Returns tried to just copy Christopher Reeve and Henry Cavill did something... controversial
My two gripes are the huge Iron-Man influence. Why does his suit need to be so advanced like Iron-Mans suit that he even has an assistant. Also his secret identity doesn't feel so secret.
Overall, this is my favourite movie Spider-Man, so the two above issues aren't the biggest deal to me.
Overall, this is my favourite movie Spider-Man, so the two above issues aren't the biggest deal to me.
Ned, Aunt May, MJ all know who he is. I guess they just don't want to the the typical has to hide his identity from those closest to him. The after credit scene also has Mysterio tell the world his identity (though we will see where this goes).
They don't know he's night monkey though, so he's keeping his identity close to the chest
I actually think having Uncle Ben appear
in the first and final illusions that Mysterio throws against Peter would have been impressive, if they did a deep dive into Peter's history and figured out that was what was driving him.
Secret identities aren't really a thing in the MCU. Everyone knows who everyone is and most of them either don't even have superhero names or aren't called by them.
It's actually okay that Iron Man is so central to the MCU as well - from an in-universe perspective he was the first legitimate superhero. Steve Rogers and Carol Danvers may have come before, but Steve was a soldier and Carol was on Earth for like a day. He was also the first Avenger, right? The first person Fury contacted to be part of the team he had been trying to build since the 90s.
Stark kinda changed everything.
Then from a meta perspective, you could argue that Robert Downey Jr was either going to make or break the MCU in 2008 and all that risk paid off. So it's totally okay for them to be a little on the nose with his legacy because Iron Man is the foundation upon which the entire MCU was built.
Here's my thought process on it and I'm playing both sides of the coin here.
A lot of Spider-Man's traditional mythos has been done before, so yeah, why not do something different?
On the other hand, he has one of the greatest supporting casts and mythos in comics, and I would've LOVED to have seen characters like Mary Jane, Gwen, Harry Osborn, Norman Osborn in the MCU. (Though Norman is rumored to be coming) They're such great, iconic characters who deserve to be in something like the MCU.
But this is what they decided to do.
A lot of Spider-Man's traditional mythos has been done before, so yeah, why not do something different?
On the other hand, he has one of the greatest supporting casts and mythos in comics, and I would've LOVED to have seen characters like Mary Jane, Gwen, Harry Osborn, Norman Osborn in the MCU. (Though Norman is rumored to be coming) They're such great, iconic characters who deserve to be in something like the MCU.
But this is what they decided to do.
Its kind of funny to me: people complained about how someone as poor as Peter could create such an elaborate superhero costume in the Raimi movies, so the MCU shows that, like a teenager with limited financial means, he's swinging around New York in a hoodie and jumpsuit you could probably buy from target.
Because Peter doesn't exist in a vacuum, his Spider-Man antics caught the attention of Tony. Why wouldn't he keep tabs on a mysterious masked hero vigilante in his own backyard. After vetting him in Civil War, he gives him some new duds, and bam, we got the "classic" Spider-Man suit we all know and love (with some MCU flavor via Tony Stark). And what teenage kid wouldn't want to be an Avenger, or look up to the most prominent one that is Tony Stark (who is also a super genius, and Peter is something of a scientist/inventor himself. 😝)
And I'm not sure of many of the people complaining about "Tony Jr." paid attention to Peter's arc in Homecoming, as well as seen Far From Home.
In Homecoming, by the end of the film, he realizes that he kind of just wants to stay in his lane. He proves that he doesn't need Stark's suit to be a hero, or even a better Spider-Man. He is Spider-Man, and he likes taking on the "smaller" crimes that are beneath the Avengers pay grade.
They take it further in Far From Home, and the
He's not picking up the mantle of Iron Man, and he was never going to, but his relationship with Tony was intended to, 1) integrate Peter Parker into the MCU, something we had never seen before in live action movies (Spidey interacting with other superheroes), and 2) serve as an emotional springboard to hit familiar themes and concepts that are inherent to Spider-Man in a fresh way after five previous films featuring the character as a solo hero in his own world, and sucked the bone dry milking a more traditional take some on the character..
Uncle Ben is important to Peter. We as an audience has seen that horse beaten to death in the previous two film iterations of the character. Marvel doesn't have to spell that out for us each time. Like the death of Bruce Wayne's parents being shoved into nearly every film adaptation of Batman, despite the vast majority of films reiterating that loss repeatedly.
You don't have to like the MCU take, of course, but I do think he fits in well with the film version of the Marvel universe
Because Peter doesn't exist in a vacuum, his Spider-Man antics caught the attention of Tony. Why wouldn't he keep tabs on a mysterious masked hero vigilante in his own backyard. After vetting him in Civil War, he gives him some new duds, and bam, we got the "classic" Spider-Man suit we all know and love (with some MCU flavor via Tony Stark). And what teenage kid wouldn't want to be an Avenger, or look up to the most prominent one that is Tony Stark (who is also a super genius, and Peter is something of a scientist/inventor himself. 😝)
And I'm not sure of many of the people complaining about "Tony Jr." paid attention to Peter's arc in Homecoming, as well as seen Far From Home.
In Homecoming, by the end of the film, he realizes that he kind of just wants to stay in his lane. He proves that he doesn't need Stark's suit to be a hero, or even a better Spider-Man. He is Spider-Man, and he likes taking on the "smaller" crimes that are beneath the Avengers pay grade.
They take it further in Far From Home, and the
latter portion of Act 2, and the entirety of Act 3 isn't Peter becoming Iron Man Jr. it's soelled out pretty blatantly that he's not, and never will be Iron Man. The final act has him relying on his ingenuity (macguyering a shield and weapon to get past the drones and up to Mysterio), as well as relying solely on his unique Spider-Sense to negate Mysterio's illusions so he can defeat him.
He's not picking up the mantle of Iron Man, and he was never going to, but his relationship with Tony was intended to, 1) integrate Peter Parker into the MCU, something we had never seen before in live action movies (Spidey interacting with other superheroes), and 2) serve as an emotional springboard to hit familiar themes and concepts that are inherent to Spider-Man in a fresh way after five previous films featuring the character as a solo hero in his own world, and sucked the bone dry milking a more traditional take some on the character..
Uncle Ben is important to Peter. We as an audience has seen that horse beaten to death in the previous two film iterations of the character. Marvel doesn't have to spell that out for us each time. Like the death of Bruce Wayne's parents being shoved into nearly every film adaptation of Batman, despite the vast majority of films reiterating that loss repeatedly.
You don't have to like the MCU take, of course, but I do think he fits in well with the film version of the Marvel universe
That Lego Death Star costs $500. Pre-snap, I think the Parkers were doing just fine, not that it matters either way.
it was also the first time the character had been accurately represented in a movie so that tracks
I think the problem with this is it's something you only hear about in the first 2 minutes of his introduction into the MCU. The Russo's have done the best job with Peter/Spidey and I wish they would do a Spidey film. Overall, I like the MCU movies. I just hope the next one has more webslinging through the big city. The end of FFH was my second favorite part of the entire movie.
mcu spidey cool , but i hate how they erased uncl ben, it's off
plus the director going on and on how he's not really into the comics.... so yeah
plus the director going on and on how he's not really into the comics.... so yeah
Just rewatched Far From Home in IMAX last night because Lion King is taking over tonight. I really still enjoyed it, which I was a bit surprised by since I thought knowing the twists it would be a little boring. I read a little spidey growing up, probably the superhero I loved the most but I love all the MCU changes.
I am fucking tired and bored of Uncle Ben and the constant origin stories that keep showing "With great power comes great responsibility", ben dying, Peter wrestling and letting that get to his head, etc. I LOVED Homecoming's fresh take on us being dropped into spidey's fully formed world and expecting audiences to hit the ground running. No problems with Tony replacing Ben, it makes sense to me as someone who only watches the movies now.
Not as wild about MJ, not because of the actress or anything but it was a bit weird for PP to go from in love with Vulture's daughter in Homecoming to suddenly flipping to MJ in FHH with little transition. On the other hand we literally see no other women his age in the movies so... ok. I kinda feel Peter wasn't really forced to decide between having a personal life or being a superhero, although clearly the next movie seems to be the setup for that. It was a central point of The Dark Knight returns which I think did it really, really well.
I am fucking tired and bored of Uncle Ben and the constant origin stories that keep showing "With great power comes great responsibility", ben dying, Peter wrestling and letting that get to his head, etc. I LOVED Homecoming's fresh take on us being dropped into spidey's fully formed world and expecting audiences to hit the ground running. No problems with Tony replacing Ben, it makes sense to me as someone who only watches the movies now.
Not as wild about MJ, not because of the actress or anything but it was a bit weird for PP to go from in love with Vulture's daughter in Homecoming to suddenly flipping to MJ in FHH with little transition. On the other hand we literally see no other women his age in the movies so... ok. I kinda feel Peter wasn't really forced to decide between having a personal life or being a superhero, although clearly the next movie seems to be the setup for that. It was a central point of The Dark Knight returns which I think did it really, really well.
Not a fan. Don't like how he's more like Iron Boy than Spider-Man, and getting all of his stuff from Tony Stark. Dude was playing second fiddle to Iron Man in his own film (homecoming.) Haven't watched FFH yet. But this version is easily my least favorite out of the three.
Almost every change was for the worse. They've more or less severely dumbed down the character for the sake of marketability. A character like Spider-Man already appealed to the everyman didn't need that.
he's a lucky person not facing the problems of the everyday person so they kind of screwed the pooch there. it'd be nice if they at least tried to parallel spidey to make him something we can relate too. at this point he just makes jokes a lot.
Holland is a great Spider-man... but I feel that there is a lot missing in his home life.
Even May finding out he's Spider-man should have some INCREDIBLY HIGH emotional moments for May. Like a shot of her watching the news and stressing out knowing her nephew is overseas fighting elemental monsters. Or Peter having lots or problems and reaching out to her for a proper pep talk.
The Raimi movies aren't perfect, but Uncle Ben and Aunt May were his foundation for heroism in all things.
Like, there is NOTHING in the MCU Spider-man remotely close to this yet.
Even May finding out he's Spider-man should have some INCREDIBLY HIGH emotional moments for May. Like a shot of her watching the news and stressing out knowing her nephew is overseas fighting elemental monsters. Or Peter having lots or problems and reaching out to her for a proper pep talk.
The Raimi movies aren't perfect, but Uncle Ben and Aunt May were his foundation for heroism in all things.
Like, there is NOTHING in the MCU Spider-man remotely close to this yet.