How do you feel when a great performance is also a form of whitewash casting?

[Bor Gullet]

Generally speaking, whitewashing is wrong because it takes away potential work from people of color, as there's a large disproportionate amount of white people working in the entertainment business. It's much easier for a white actor to get a job for instance than a POC.

Prior to the 21st century, you'll usually find whitewashing in most movies or shows. It's just something you kind have to accept of it's time because that was common practice, it wasn't viewed as a problem. In fact, I don't think people really started addressing the problem of whitewashing until the 2010's... I think Avatar the Last Airbender film was the first time I heard criticism over whitewashing the cast.

Nowadays, whitewashing is paid attention too and criticized, with studios being more careful about casting the appropriate actor for the part. But even so, it still happens sometimes even today.

I'm currently re-watching Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul, and one of my favorite villains is Hector Salamanca, played by Mark Margolis. I think he's perfect in the role, even his corny accent is kind of endearing. But it's a white dude playing a Mexican.

Whitewashing has also been criticized in animated shows and movies, as well as video games. Heck, on the subject of Avatar, even the animated show has a fair of amount of whitewashing, having voice actors such as Mae Whitman, Mark Hamill, Cricket Leigh, Victor Brandt, Robert Patrick, Jack DeSena, and more voicing Asian characters. But I love all those performances on the show.

So I guess my question is, how should we feel when a great performance is also one that's been whitewashed?

 

[Video Games Are Dumb]

I'm currently re-watching Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul, and one of my favorite villains is Hector Salamanca, played by Mark Margolis. I think he's perfect in the role, even his corny accent is kind of endearing. But it's a white dude playing a Mexican.

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There's a lot to say about this show and it's depiction of mexicans...

But personally, I dunno. I feel most people think acknowledging media as problematic absolves the viewers of thinking about...well anything. But they shouldn't. Find the problems and change the media.

 

[GARlock Spiral]

I'm overall fine with it in a sense. An actor is paid for a role, and it doesn't matter unless nationality is a thing. Replace Bryan Cranston or Rami Malek with Idris Elba, and ideally not much of Breaking Bad/Mr Robot changes. If a role is up for a transperson, i'm not going to be too upset if the role is played by Capable McWhitewash if the role is done acceptably. They did a job, and all you can do is judge the art accordingly. If the writers want to get a trans actor, even better! If not, that's a shame. Oh well.

 

[aett]

I recently rewatched all of Bojack Horseman with my wife (who had never seen it) and she was immediately a little put off by Alison Brie doing the voice of Vietnamese-American Diane Nguyen. I definitely started thinking it was weird later in the show's run, but back in 2014 I'm not so sure that thought occurred to me. I feel like if Bojack had started in or after 2016, they wouldn't have cast Brie in the role.

 

[Video Games Are Dumb]

I feel like if Bojack had started in or after 2016, they wouldn't have cast Brie in the role.

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One of the creators discussed this and they absolutely wouldn't have. She's so good in the show but it's clearly a bad call.

 

[hordak]

i dont think its whitewashing if a white actor plays a mexican character. That's what actors do - play roles. To a point.
But sometimes Hollywood does go to far

 

[Deleted member 31817]

TIL the actor behind Hector Salamanca isn't even a little Hispanic

 

[wyndhamprice]

TIL the actor behind Hector Salamanca isn't even a little Hispanic

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Yeah, he's just one of those actors going back decades who could get booked for any vaguely "ethnic" tough guy role. Here he is in Scarface 35 years ago:

 

[Septimus Prime]

I don't think it's a black and white issue, per se. A piece of media can have problematic elements and still be good and/or enjoyable. And, honestly, as an American minority, this type of thing is normal and expected.

That said, it doesn't mean we can't do better moving forward. Acknowledging the problem is a good first step.

 

[Dehnus]

Generally speaking, whitewashing is wrong because it takes away potential work from people of color, as there's a large disproportionate amount of white people working in the entertainment business. It's much easier for a white actor to get a job for instance than a POC.

Prior to the 21st century, you'll usually find whitewashing in most movies or shows. It's just something you kind have to accept of it's time because that was common practice, it wasn't viewed as a problem. In fact, I don't think people really started addressing the problem of whitewashing until the 2010's... I think Avatar the Last Airbender film was the first time I heard criticism over whitewashing the cast.

Nowadays, whitewashing is paid attention too and criticized, with studios being more careful about casting the appropriate actor for the part. But even so, it still happens sometimes even today.

I'm currently re-watching Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul, and one of my favorite villains is Hector Salamanca, played by Mark Margolis. I think he's perfect in the role, even his corny accent is kind of endearing. But it's a white dude playing a Mexican.

Whitewashing has also been criticized in animated shows and movies, as well as video games. Heck, on the subject of Avatar, even the animated show has a fair of amount of whitewashing, having voice actors such as Mae Whitman, Mark Hamill, Cricket Leigh, Victor Brandt, Robert Patrick, Jack DeSena, and more voicing Asian characters. But I love all those performances on the show.

So I guess my question is, how should we feel when a great performance is also one that's been whitewashed?

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I don't blame the actor or voice actor, it's a job for them and they need bread on the table in many cases (Not all actors are rich as fuck, many are struggling), but I do blame the studios, directors and producers. Really if you have a minority person in your animation or live action, please try to find an actor that is a part of that specific minority, so they can get work too... they struggle as well to get roles!

Although with high profile actors? I find it a bit more difficult not to blame them. But even then.. would you say no to a few million? But they are contributing to the problem... so.. I feel a bit more dubious about that one.

 

[UberTag]

I'm able to separate the two. I can applaud an actor's performance while, at the same time, shaming the casting director.

Actors just want whatever work they can get. Unless they're financially independent, I'm not going to condemn them for taking roles to pay their bills or add credits to their resume... especially if they do a bang-up job with what they're given.

 

[808s & Villainy]

TIL the actor behind Hector Salamanca isn't even a little Hispanic

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Yeah, wtf. Even though I'm reading this I still can't separate it in my mind. Doesn't he speak Spanish in some of the episodes? Has no one ever called out his accent as sounding off?

 

[skeezx]

it's a case by case kind of thing

hector salamanca i can understand because he was basically the Dr. Claw of Breaking Bad, and casting was prior to BCS needing the actor's chops beyond vegging out and ringing a bell

an off the top my head example but johnny depp as tonto veers into where it becomes problematic

 

[stersauce]

I recently rewatched all of Bojack Horseman with my wife (who had never seen it) and she was immediately a little put off by Alison Brie doing the voice of Vietnamese-American Diane Nguyen. I definitely started thinking it was weird later in the show's run, but back in 2014 I'm not so sure that thought occurred to me. I feel like if Bojack had started in or after 2016, they wouldn't have cast Brie in the role.

Click to shrink...

the creator actually talked about this issue in an interview:

For a long time, because we cast a white actress to play Diane, I was afraid of this conversation happening. And because of that, we really downplayed her race and her cultural heritage. We've treated her basically like a white woman because I didn't want to have a white woman playing an overtly Asian character, because that felt somehow more wrong to me.

And now I feel the opposite. We did a complete disservice to the character by making her so white. Obviously what white-coded means is subjective, and there are Asian women who relate to Diane and I don't want to discount their experiences. But I do think we have avoided stories that could have been more interesting because of my own fear and guilt about the casting.

And [that fear] has had an additionally problematic effect: Because I wasn't thinking of Diane as an Asian character first, I didn't feel the need to hire Asian writers, and that is a responsibility that I should have felt much earlier. So that is something I regret as well.

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it's a pretty good interview

 

[Joaum_Boladaum]

i dont think its whitewashing if a white actor plays a mexican character. That's what actors do - play roles. To a point.
But sometimes Hollywood does go to far

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I'm pretty sure Anthony Hopkins is playing a spanish character here, not a latino one.

 

[Chromie]

Yeah, wtf. Even though I'm reading this I still can't separate it in my mind. Doesn't he speak Spanish in some of the episodes? Has no one ever called out his accent as sounding off?

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It's very easy to pick on, especially since here is another Salamanca. Just listen how slow Hector speaks and some words don't roll of his tongue, Lalo speaks quick but clearly and his disposition changes as he speaks. It's just so accurate to how we speak and fluid. I'm sure Tony Dalton speaks Spanish day to day just by listening to him.






Don't get me wrong though, Mark Margolis did a great job being scary as hell but in regards to OPs question it doesn't bother me but if there had been a native Mexican actor, even better. It does seem like something that was taken into consideration for Better Call Saul.. I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as a white person playing a black/brown person in say Exodus or something.

 

[Tiny Chihuahueño]

Plenty of actors on breaking bad don't know a lick of Spanish, even if they're PoC.
Gustavo Fring is a great character played by a great actor, but his Spanish is really hard to follow sometimes. Lalo in BCS was great because he speaks so naturally, but Nacho is also a little hard to follow, specially if he's mumbling.
So there's the other side of the story, taking any PoC and trying to pass them as hispanic while they're just -I can only guess- reading the script phonetically or something but only Spanish speakers will know or care while watching the show or movie.

 

[Kain]

I'm pretty sure Anthony Hopkins is playing a spanish character here, not a latino one.

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Well, Banderas isn't Mexican either...

 

[Joaum_Boladaum]

Well, Banderas isn't Mexican either...

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haha true, funny how the spanish guy is british and the mexican is spanish. I can't complain much about the mask of zorro cause it's one of my favorite movies ever and I think the parts are really well casted. would agree that if there ever should be another zorro movie it would be best to cast a mexican guy to play him. just find one with as much charisma as banderas, haha.