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DarkShame3

Alt Account
Banned
Jan 26, 2019
324
The fact that single player games are becoming more and more the exception to the rule scares me too. That being said, I'm hoping that this is just an attempt by Bioware to diversify and try new things, not abandon their legacy. I agree that if they did, that would be a terrible tragedy.
 

Dandy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,460
I feel for you, OP. Bioware is probably my favorite game developer and it is disappointing to see them make games that don't appeal to me. I went into the VIP demo hoping to be won over, but was not. People say "play other games" but there just aren't many single-player RPGs out there, especially not ones that are like Bioware's. People say "don't worry, they are making DA4" but games get changed/cancelled based on market trends, especially with EA(see Amy Hennig's Star Wars game).
 
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Kapryov

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,138
Australia
Bioware fan here (late fan, since KOTOR).

- Don't buy Anthem unless you want more Anthems.
- Buy Dragon Age 4 if it ever comes out.

Otherwise focus on other studios. Obsidian is working on a sci-fi game at the moment, give them some support.
As far as I'm concerned the Bioware of old is dead.
 

NitX

Lead Developer
Verified
Aug 20, 2018
158
Thinking Anthem being successful automatically means more Anthem-like games and not Dragon Age/Mass Effect/New Ips is plain wrong. That's not how this works.
 

Mechaplum

Enlightened
Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,821
JP
"Rooting" won't change a damn thing. Either buy the game if it's fun for you, or not.

This is like sports fans who think they can change the fortunes of their billion dollar clubs by mentally sending evil thoughts to make some core players sick.
 

Gibordep

Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,282
I played every Bioware game and will play Anthem, the game will be a success.
In my opinion DA:I wasn't a great game the fault wasn't Anthem.
This days Divinity and Pillars of eternity are better old school bioware games than DAI or MEA. Maybe obsidian has more people that worked on old Bioware RPGs than Bioware.
There are games for every taste no need to root for a game not to succeed on the hope that bioware returns to the past.
 

Trice

Banned
Nov 3, 2018
2,653
Croatia
Even if they did, I doubt it would be near the quality of the ME trilogy. Too much time has passed and the industry has evolved.

All hopes are now with CDPR, Naughty Dog and the like.
 

SlayerSaint

Member
Jan 6, 2019
2,091
Yeah but... 2017 is SO two years ago, obvs!
And Dragon Age Inquisition before that. You make one online game and apparently you never make single players games again according to this forum.

I understand people love single player games here, but I swear that people overreact way too much to online games and think they're destroying single player games and their future. There's more good single player games to play now than ever before, there's just also a lot of online games. There's a lot of everything for everyone, your single player games are safe here.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,334
So this thread just gonna ignore that bioware's creatives came up with and developed Anthem and that it wasn't something EA pressured them into doing?

Normal company: Anthem tanks, realizes quasi-MMO loot shooters aren't what people are into anymore, gets Bioware back to doing what they do best.
EA: Anthem tanks, closes Bioware.
Gamer:This studio should only stick to one type of genre and nothing else even if they wanted to branch out and make a different type of game. Oh they wanna do something else? Hope it fails.

Thinking Anthem being successful automatically means more Anthem-like games and not Dragon Age/Mass Effect/New Ips is plain wrong. That's not how this works.
AS A GAMER, allow me to tell you that you're wrong. /s
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
And Dragon Age Inquisition before that. You make one online game and apparently you never make single players games again according to this forum.

I understand people love single player games here, but I swear that people overreact way too much to online games and think they're destroying single player games and their future. There's more good single player games to play now than ever before, there's just also a lot of online games. There's a lot of everything for everyone, your single player games are safe here.
I think it's more that Anthem is the next game made by their main team, or at least the Mass Effect team. That series was undoubtedly their biggest icon and representative of the company as a whole with Dragon Age often copying it after its successes and even their MMO. I think Anthem is going to set a precedent that they're going all GaaS even if they try to wrap it around single-player titles like DA4.
 

Nostremitus

Member
Nov 15, 2017
7,777
Alabama
They'd need to buy their way out from under EA and find a publisher that wants to bankroll single player experiences.


Or get bought from EA without even more talent/skilled worker creep.
 

Deeke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
966
United States
Since they're wholly-owned by EA it's not really up to BioWare. We're not 100% sure how the dynamic is between the company and the studio, but I'm thinking EA gives BioWare enough free reign to do certain things that align with its business models.
 

Bedlam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,536
I apoligize your fucking right. Any developer that dare makes a game that your not interested should burn to the ground.
Apology accepted.

Developer studios who jump into the gears of the biggest and most short-sighted corporations in the business and get ground up in the process are not entitled to any kind of sympathy. Agreed.

Edit: It's "you're", btw. (apart from the other spelling errors). Cool your rage, rebellious son. Your head is too hot.
 

SlayerSaint

Member
Jan 6, 2019
2,091
I think it's more that Anthem is the next game made by their main team, or at least the Mass Effect team. That series was undoubtedly their biggest icon and representative of the company as a whole with Dragon Age often copying it after its successes and even their MMO. I think Anthem is going to set a precedent that they're going all GaaS even if they try to wrap it around single-player titles like DA4.
GaaS is the future, it's gonna be everywhere. Despite inflation games prices haven't gone up at all, AND budgets keep massively increasing.

As long as GaaS doesn't actually meaningfully harm single player experiences I'm ok with it. Just keep it to cosmetic stuff and it's a win win. The devs/publishers get more money to continue to pour into more games, games prices stay the same, and it's only cosmetic so no pay to win.
 

Asbsand

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,901
Denmark
As long as GaaS doesn't actually meaningfully harm single player experiences I'm ok with it.
You can't just incorporate GaaS elements without incentivising it, or it's a dead business strategy. The very fact of GaaS elements being in a single-player game works against the nature of a single-player game and its appeal. It's an unwinnable situation, and I can only wish that there will exist a new market for not necessarily top-tier productions but still graphically impressive games that skimp on the budget to avoid the nonsense of the "Single player GaaS".
 

Bedlam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,536
So this thread just gonna ignore that bioware's creatives came up with and developed Anthem and that it wasn't something EA pressured them into doing?
Do you honestly believe this pitch would've been made without EA at the top? When you do a pitch to EA, you obviously know what flies and what doesn't. Anthem was always their very slightly altered version of the potential GaaS-like-Destiny money printer.
 

Bedlam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,536
GaaS is the future, it's gonna be everywhere. Despite inflation games prices haven't gone up at all, AND budgets keep massively increasing.

As long as GaaS doesn't actually meaningfully harm single player experiences I'm ok with it. Just keep it to cosmetic stuff and it's a win win. The devs/publishers get more money to continue to pour into more games, games prices stay the same, and it's only cosmetic so no pay to win.
Lol no.

1. GaaS even in its mildest form is hurting the industry. It has been explained numerous times.

2. Just as MMOs and other whale-milking trends before, GaaS will not be the future of the industry since these products will cannibalize themselves. As with MMOs, there is only room for merely a handful of top dogs at maximum. All other attempts that do not reach that echelon will cease to exist rather sooner than later. Eventually even whales will get tired of spending insane sums of money on worthless shit within same-y experiences (again: see MMOs).

Queue the next trendy rip-off scheme...
 
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Gilver

Banned
Nov 14, 2018
3,725
Costa Rica
So this thread just gonna ignore that bioware's creatives came up with and developed Anthem and that it wasn't something EA pressured them into doing?
EA literally just told them to make Destiny because microtransactions and multiplayer longevity, Bioware very likely has close to no say on the matter. They have also been rejected from doing KOTOR many times.
 

Bedlam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,536
Bioware sold thenselves to Elevation Partners. Two years later, EA bought Bioware from them.
Well, maybe they should've gone into the self-publishing direction instead such as CD Project. Yeah, hindsight is 20/20 and it is an enormous risk but with sharks like EA or Activision, the deterioration of the studio is pretty much inevitable and only a matter of time. The only rationale for selling a studio like Bioware (or similar) is to quickly fill the pockets of the studio heads with fuck-you money at a critical point in the studio's lifecycle.
 

Cat Party

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,417
Rooting for a game to fail because you personally want the studio to make something else is truly fucked up.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
EA literally just told them to make Destiny because microtransactions and multiplayer longevity, Bioware very likely has close to no say on the matter. They have also been rejected from doing KOTOR many times.
They've wanted to do a game for this for years. There's no literally about it, EA wanted the Anthem team to make ME4/MEA but they didn't want to and came up with Anthem instead.
Well, maybe they should've gone into the self-publishing direction instead such as CD Project. Yeah, hindsight is 20/20 and it is an enormous risk but with sharks like EA or Activision, the deterioration of the studio is pretty much inevitable and only a matter of time. The only rationale for selling a studio like Bioware (or similar) is to quickly fill the pockets of the studio heads with fuck-you money at a critical point in the studio's lifecycle.
Yeah, they should be like CDPR and crunch their devs past their limit and pay them poorly. Or join EA and get some of the best benefits and working conditions in the industry. Tough choice....
 

Pyro

God help us the mods are making weekend threads
Member
Jul 30, 2018
14,505
United States
I think the best you can hope for is Anthem fails but doesn't mean BioWare gets the axe/DA4 winds up being made since it was already announced and is hugely successful sales/critically. Fingers crossed the stars align.
 

AntiMacro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,138
Alberta
Buy all the single player role playing games out there and hope you make enough of a tick in the sales meter that EA decides SP RPG will sell enough to justify.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
There isn't one:
- Destiny did not exist when Anthem was being started, it wasn't even revealed yet.
-EA actually wanted the Anthem team to make ME4 but they didn't want to so handed it off to BioWare Montreal (that doesn't sound like a team that's forced to do anything)
- BioWare have wanted to make something akin to Mass Effect that you can share the experiences with you friend for years. Similar thing they wanted to do with SWTOR which they had started to do before they even joined EA.
Edit: And that's also ignoring the number of BioWare devs that have stated that this is what they wanted to make.
 

Gilver

Banned
Nov 14, 2018
3,725
Costa Rica
EA told them to make a copy of a game that didn't even exist and wasn't even revealed when Anthem started development? That's what you told yourself?
I mean its been 5 years since Destiny 1 but in a general sense the MTX and multiplayer longevity is absolutely why they are making the game.
Destiny comparison is obvious even if not direct but the KOTOR thing is from Schreier.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,007
Well, maybe they should've gone into the self-publishing direction instead such as CD Project. Yeah, hindsight is 20/20 and it is an enormous risk but with sharks like EA or Activision, the deterioration of the studio is pretty much inevitable and only a matter of time. The only rationale for selling a studio like Bioware (or similar) is to quickly fill the pockets of the studio heads with fuck-you money at a critical point in the studio's lifecycle.
Not so easy. Unlike CDPR they aren't in a country where labor is cheap, nor do they have a digital sales portal for steady income, and as mentioned in my earlier post they were likely in debt and would have gone bankrupt without EA.
 

Eumi

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,518
I mean its been 5 years since Destiny 1 but in a general sense the MTX and multiplayer longevity is absolutely why they are making the game.

Destiny comparison is obvious even if not direct but the KOTOR thing is from Schreier.
So what you're saying is you don't have a source for the part of your statement people were actually questioning.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,334
I mean its been 5 years since Destiny 1
Anthem started development in 2012. A full year before Destiny had its first gameplay reveal, which was a full year before Destiny actually released. Essentially:

BsbFwLL.png


Just take the L on that one instead of projecting those dastardly EA executives twirling their mustaches and forcing the poor bioware devs who just wanted to make *insert game you would've been excited for here* to develop Anthem.

Do you honestly believe this pitch would've been made without EA at the top?
Literally consider market trends in 2012. AKA, the year Anthem was greenlit. They're quite different from market trends in 2014, let along 2019's trends.
 

Bedlam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,536
They've wanted to do a game for this for years. There's no literally about it, EA wanted the Anthem team to make ME4/MEA but they didn't want to and came up with Anthem instead.
If believing that makes you sleep at night, then okay. Lol

Anthem is like the most uncreative pitch for a studio like Bioware one could imagine. It's Destiny; they couldn't even be bothered to come up with an art style that is noticeably distinct from Destiny. To the contrary: close association with Destiny was clearly the name of the game here. But hey, the cape-wearing space knights now have one more knee joint!

Yeah, they should be like CDPR and crunch their devs past their limit and pay them poorly. Or join EA and get some of the best benefits and working conditions in the industry. Tough choice....
Working in this industry is shitty in general (lack of unionization etc.). There have been horrid stories about working for EA owned studios in the past as well, not just CD Project. It's not as black and white as you make it out to be.
 

srtrestre

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,970
1. Travel back in time to, say, March 2012 and...
2. ...complain way less about ME3, then...
3. ...stick around til 2017 to buy the shit out of Andromeda

*I wouldn't do 'em
 

Gilver

Banned
Nov 14, 2018
3,725
Costa Rica
So what you're saying is you don't have a source for the part of your statement people were actually questioning.
Anthem started development in 2012.
I should use the word literally less. But I understand that it started 7 years ago but its just very hard to believe that EA did not force on to Bioware many aspects of the project and EA has done nothing for me to believe the contrary. Also the KOTOR rejection is still telling.
 

rras1994

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,742
Except, the OP is not complaining.
OP states they hope the game fails so BioWare is a cautionary tale so other devs don't do games other than what they usually do - what on earth would you call that?
If believing that makes you sleep at night, then okay. Lol

Anthem is like the most uncreative pitch for a studio like Bioware one could imagine. It's Destiny; they couldn't even be bothered to come up with an art style that is noticeably distinct from Destiny. To the contrary: close association with Destiny was clearly the name of the game here. But hey, the cape-wearing space nights now have one more knee joint!


Working in this industry is shitty in general (lack of unionization etc.). There have been horrid stories ablut working for EA owned studios in the past as well, not just CD Project. It's not as black and white as you make it out to be.
EA Spouse was in 2004 and the author actually wrote an article on how EA does not get enough credit for how they changed their culture completely around. When CDPR got accued of terrible work conditions their response was "If you do not like the heat, get out of the kitchen". Some things are black and white and CDPR has shown no effort in changing.
I should use the word literally less. But I understand that it started 7 years ago but its just very hard to believe that EA did not force on to Bioware many aspects of the project and EA has done nothing for me to believe the contrary. Also the KOTOR rejection is still telling.
BioWare devs have said that this was the game they wanted to make. And one of the co-founders of BioWare literally said that EA gives you enough rope to hang yourself. They actually have more of a history of being too handsoff then too controlling which is how you got to the situation of Mass Effect Andromeda and Visceral, where both projects had years of dev work with nothing to show for it.
Also KOTOR is not just an EA decision but a Disney one.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,296
I guess the bigger question is what shape does DA4 take? If I'm not mistaken, DA4 had been in production and whatever work they had done it was basically scrapped- that was around the time Mike Laidlaw left BioWare. Which makes me wonder if they were going to do another more traditional single player RPG take on Dragon Age and EA forced them back to the drawing board to make it more GaaS with all those hooks?

That's more my concern- not that they'll cancel DA4 or anything but that it'll be released as some GaaS laden garbage.
 

LabRat

Member
Mar 16, 2018
4,234
EA probably won't allow it, there would have to be a situation like what happened with bungie and activision.. as long as bioware isn't a independent dev i seriously doubt we're seeing a strictly singleplayer RPG from bioware ever again

what i would recommend to do OP is buying and supporting upcoming singleplayer rpgs (outer worlds, cyberpunk 2077) to show EA there is a market for a bioware SP rpg