How do we feel about KH3's triple-down? (full game spoilers)

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Mar 12, 2019

After years and years of memes about how difficult it is to follow the Kingdom Hearts series, Nomura tripled down in making the mobile game absolutely critical and the basis of most of the ending and of Kingdom Hearts 4. Nomura also tied in fairly important plot points from Chain of Memories (the GBA game from 2004), KH Coded (the 2009 phone game), 358/2 Days (the 2009 DS game). In the ending of the game, we find out that Xigbar has been maybe the puppet master of the series so far and is a Keyblade user who will be one of the big bads of KH4. We also find out that Sora will go to Japan in a TWEWY world in the future and that some elements of cancelled Versus 13 will be included in KH4 including sort of Versus XIII Noctis.

It's the biggest triple down I've ever seen as the game refuses to let any of the 20 million plot points from 8 different game platforms go and refuses to allow a reboot to make the series more straight-forward in story and in facts double downs on stupid and weird twists to set up the future games that won't come out for years and years.

This is Nomura's vision with no compromises whatsoever I would guess as I can't imagine any editor allowing any of this stuff to happen and I'm conflicted about how I feel about this.

Allowing Donald and Goofy to die and come back from death twice in the game... That was very good though.

Nightengale · Mar 12, 2019

Simply the best.

Yoshichan · Mar 12, 2019

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Allowing Donald and Goofy to die and come back from death twice in the game... That was very good though

When??

TissueBox · Mar 12, 2019

Is it TWEWY though? *raises brow*

Dante_727 · Mar 12, 2019

It has its charm. If you can't follow the story by reading alot, just stop playing the series for story.

Soulsborne games also has this aspect where you can play whole game without understanding anything and afterwards reading about it in wiki.

Sandfox · Mar 12, 2019

The mobile game tying in was to be expected with the direction it was going in and Back Cover.

TissueBox said:
Is it TWEWY though? *raises brow*

Nomura said it isn't, but people are just going to assume he's lying.

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Mar 12, 2019

Yoshichan said:
When??

Donald and Goofy are killed at the beginning of Pirates 3 before climbing back out of hell with the rest of the crew.

Donald and Goofy I believe were killed along with everyone else at the beginning of the Keyblade Graveyard before Sora became Jesus... Or Mickey used time magic? I was actually unclear how they were revived but in both scenarios, Donald and Goofy sort of die.

dimasok · Mar 12, 2019

I really hated KH3 but Nomura at least remembered how many plot holes he was suppposed to patch

Make the next game with Kairi, Namine and Xion as protagonists within the TWEWY and Versus universe. Sora is just too stupid to function.

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Mar 12, 2019

dimasok said:
I really hated KH3 but Nomura at least remembered how many plot holes he was suppposed to patch

Make the next game with Kairi, Namine and Xion as protagonists within the TWEWY and Versus universe. Sora is just too stupid to function.

Sora was waaaaay better in this game than 2 at least.

dimasok · Mar 12, 2019

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Sora was waaaaay better in this game than 2 at least.

I found the whole game to be insufferable and he seemed way more stupid imho than in any other games. Nomura really needs to learn how to write scripts.

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Mar 12, 2019

dimasok said:
I found the whole game to be insufferable and he seemed way more stupid imho than in any other games. Nomura really needs to learn how to write scripts.

Nomura also could hire a cutscene director who understands how scenes are supposed to work.

Since there's no motion or life in 70-80% of them

Sandfox · Mar 12, 2019

dimasok said:
I found the whole game to be insufferable and he seemed way more stupid imho than in any other games. Nomura really needs to learn how to write scripts.

Sora has always been dense with Goofy being the one that actually notices everything. Even in KH2 you had people questioning his intelligence.

dimasok · Mar 12, 2019

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Nomura also could hire a cutscene director who understands how scenes are supposed to work.

Since there's no motion or life in 70-80% of them

Yeah I dont get it. He is a good character designer and KH3 sold well, but man he should learn some restraint and cull his beasts. Even Tabata couldnt salvage the mess he left behind and he tried!

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Mar 12, 2019

dimasok said:
Yeah I dont get it. He is a good character designer and KH3 sold well, but man he should learn some restraint and cull his beasts. Even Tabata couldnt salvage the mess he left behind and he tried!

Nomura refusing to backtrack on his vision can be endearing though.

Characters standing motionless in a cutscene that Nomura forgot to put music in is less charming....

dimasok · Mar 12, 2019

Sandfox said:
Sora has always been dense with Goofy being the one that actually notices everything. Even in KH2 you had people questioning his intelligence.

Hell yeah, but for some reason it didnt annoy me as much until KH3. That game rubbed me the wrong way in so many ways that I probably just paid more attention to it. I wish someone else directed KH4.

Daysean · Mar 12, 2019

I love it, but im biased in favor of Nomura's wild ride than any disney world

dimasok · Mar 12, 2019

Imagine Kairi as Lightning! Man would that be satisfactory to me

AgentLampshade · Mar 12, 2019

I'm fine with ending plotlines tied to Sora: So Birth By Sleep, Chain of Memories and all those games. That's stuff that needed to be addressed. Even if I think Roxas's story ended perfectly fine in KHII.
I'm fine with Xigbar turning out to be Luxu: He was always a shady dude and now we know why. Good twist.
The rest of the mobile stuff however, is not fine for me. I simply don't care about any of it, and that it's going to be the basis for the next saga is a little frustrating. I don't want to have to follow an ongoing mobile game just to understand what's going on.

You can say "this is Nomuras vision" and all, but when his vision is so blurred by convolution, it's time to tell him he needs a pair of glasses.

TissueBox · Mar 12, 2019

Sandfox said:
The mobile game tying in was to be expected with the direction it was going in and Back Cover.

Nomura said it isn't, but people are just going to assume he's lying.

What'll be really interesting is seeing how Yozora plays into things as on original character from a distinct world(?)... Stella here we come/return..?!

dimasok said:
Yeah I dont get it. He is a good character designer and KH3 sold well, but man he should learn some restraint and cull his beasts. Even Tabata couldnt salvage the mess he left behind and he tried!

We'll never know how Versus/XV would have turned out, but I would like to imagine it would have been the man's opus.

Or maybe it was doomed from the start. Argh. *loses self in box of pizzas*

dimasok · Mar 12, 2019

AgentLampshade said:
I'm fine with ending plotlines tied to Sora: So Birth By Sleep, Chain of Memories and all those games. That's stuff that needed to be addressed. Even if I think Roxas's story ended perfectly fine in KHII.
I'm fine with Xigbar turning out to be Luxu: He was always a shady dude and now we know why. Good twist.
The rest of the mobile stuff however, is not fine for me. I simply don't care about any of it, and that it's going to be the basis for the next saga is a little frustrating. I don't want to have to follow an ongoing mobile game just to understand what's going on.

You can say "this is Nomuras vision" and all, but when his vision is so blurred by convolution, it's time to tell him he needs a pair of glasses.

Dont worry he will recap it all in KH3.6 Emotions that rend the continuum

Slacker247 · Mar 12, 2019

dimasok said:
I really hated KH3 but Nomura at least remembered how many plot holes he was suppposed to patch

Make the next game with Kairi, Namine and Xion as protagonists within the TWEWY and Versus universe. Sora is just too stupid to function.

Kairi is also crap. I'd rather have Sora any day.

And yeh, the mobile game necessity is a huge downer. I'm just not into the mobile game.

TissueBox · Mar 12, 2019

I still get a rise out of one of the best moments of KHIII (Ephemer and the Dandelions coming to the rescue) being directly tied to Union Cross.

That was like a MAGNANIMOUS moment...and a little puzzling if you never laid a finger on the series' origin story extravaganza.

Kizuna · Mar 12, 2019

Yeah, it's wonderful. There is a place in gaming for this kind of epic sagas that pay off way more if you invest time to learn how to navigate the long and confusing plot. Not everything should be a one-and-done experience, and it's great that some of the big names in the industry like Nomura get it.

noyram23 · Mar 12, 2019

Im all for Nomura's wild ride

Boddy · Mar 12, 2019

I'm ready for kh4 x twewy vs 13

Deleted member 42105 · Mar 12, 2019

I respect the hell out of Nomura for not letting things go. Personally I think it's a very rewarding experience as a long time fan.

As for the plot, it's in the so bad it's good category for me. I'm just in it for the wild ride.

Unknownlight · Mar 12, 2019

If anything, KH3 probably could've gotten away with being even more convoluted. It's what everyone was expecting anyway.

Deleted member 2809 · Mar 12, 2019

Sounds very petty of him lmao

Gold Arsene · Mar 12, 2019

I'm all for it. I'm sure there'll be a game or movie to cover the mobile stuff like Back Cover.

The fact that almost no one else would do this is awesome.

It's the same reason I'm happy DMCV references so many "not important" parts of the series like the anime.

Gold Arsene · Mar 12, 2019

Shugga said:
Sounds very petty of him lmao

How the fuck is it petty?

AgentLampshade said:
I'm fine with ending plotlines tied to Sora: So Birth By Sleep, Chain of Memories and all those games. That's stuff that needed to be addressed. Even if I think Roxas's story ended perfectly fine in KHII.
I'm fine with Xigbar turning out to be Luxu: He was always a shady dude and now we know why. Good twist.
The rest of the mobile stuff however, is not fine for me. I simply don't care about any of it, and that it's going to be the basis for the next saga is a little frustrating. I don't want to have to follow an ongoing mobile game just to understand what's going on.

You can say "this is Nomuras vision" and all, but when his vision is so blurred by convolution, it's time to tell him he needs a pair of glasses.

There are plenty of recap and summary videos for the mobile game on YouTube.

And like I said earlier im sure they'll make another movie or game to cover the important stuff.

Deleted member 2809 · Mar 12, 2019

Crazy Izanagi said:
How the fuck is it petty?

This part

some elements of cancelled Versus 13 will be included in KH4 including sort of Versus XIII Noctis.

"I didn't get to do this but I'll do it anyway !"

Elephant · Mar 12, 2019

I would be fine with a big confusing story if some of it was actually interesting. In fact the story MIGHT be interesting, just hidden behind insufferable dialogue and headache inducing characters that make me zone out and not pay attention.

I don't remember 2 being this bad, although my tolerance was probably much higher as a teenager than it is in my 30's.

I think someone needs to take it off Nomura. Maybe Disney comes in and says "What the hell is going on in this game? Let's get you some proper writers". Although I doubt they care.

Gold Arsene · Mar 12, 2019

Shugga said:
This part

"I didn't get to do this but I'll do it anyway !"

Do you think Death Stranding is petty?

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Mar 12, 2019

Elephant said:
I would be fine with a big confusing story if some of it was actually interesting. In fact the story MIGHT be interesting, just hidden behind insufferable dialogue and headache inducing characters that make me zone out and not pay attention.

I don't remember 2 being this bad, although my tolerance was probably much higher as a teenager than it is in my 30's.

I think someone needs to take it off Nomura. Maybe Disney comes in and says "What the hell is going on in this game? Let's get you some proper writers". Although I doubt they care.

2's story is way way way worse.

3's is just... bad but less bad.

Swift_Gamer · Mar 12, 2019

I'm fine with it, I don't want a reboot for reboot's sake. Most people play KH for the gameplay and Disney/FF fan service. Let us who play it for the story have it.

RochHoch · Mar 12, 2019

I think it's hilarious how Nomura was hell-bent on making the mobile game key to stuff in KH3 and for what comes next.

We're probably going to get another DDD-type game to set-up for KH4 that alot of people are going to skip and then complain about once it matters in KH4, and I'm all for it. I just want to see where Nomura's wild ride takes us.

Synohan · Mar 12, 2019

I'm pretty sure Nomura has a much better vision set up from here forward. I get the feeling he's excited to ramp up the Union X story into a fully fleshed Kingdom Hearts title.

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Mar 12, 2019

Synohan said:
I'm pretty sure Nomura has a much better vision set up from here forward. I get the feeling he's excited to ramp up the Union X story into a fully fleshed Kingdom Hearts title.

I'm 10000% sure he does not, the setups for KH4 are really not good in KH3.

Jawshoeahhtree · Mar 12, 2019

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Donald and Goofy are killed at the beginning of Pirates 3 before climbing back out of hell with the rest of the crew.

Donald and Goofy I believe were killed along with everyone else at the beginning of the Keyblade Graveyard before Sora became Jesus... Or Mickey used time magic? I was actually unclear how they were revived but in both scenarios, Donald and Goofy sort of die.

Can I just say that this is the best way to explain that!!! Fantastic job! 😁

Velocity:Design:Comfort · Mar 12, 2019

Elephant said:
I would be fine with a big confusing story if some of it was actually interesting. In fact the story MIGHT be interesting, just hidden behind insufferable dialogue and headache inducing characters that make me zone out and not pay attention.

I don't remember 2 being this bad, although my tolerance was probably much higher as a teenager than it is in my 30's.

I think someone needs to take it off Nomura. Maybe Disney comes in and says "What the hell is going on in this game? Let's get you some proper writers". Although I doubt they care.

Your specific negativity about a really well recieved game doesn't mean anything needs to change nor would really any fan want someone else to take over.

Poised Turtoise · Mar 12, 2019

Was a bad call. Plot wise series has been a joke till 1 and every consequential game has taken away from the VERY VIBE that initially defined kingdom hearts; a simple story of small Island Sora growing and traveling Disney worlds to defeat evil, it was supposed to be about Disney and square

Not all this kingdom heart original bullshit that is an absolute joke

They limited the potential appeal of the series and started doing so since 2, it is a bummer

ToddBonzalez · Mar 12, 2019

It's ridiculous and I'm delighted it has been allowed to happen.

Deleted member 5535 · Mar 12, 2019

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Nomura refusing to backtrack on his vision can be endearing though.

Characters standing motionless in a cutscene that Nomura forgot to put music in is less charming....

Nomura isn't the cutscene director and he's not doing everything unlike what fans and haters claim. Masaru Oka is the cutscene director of Kingdom Hearts since BBS and he's the one responsible for it.

Mauricio_Magus · Mar 12, 2019

I was worried that the game would be super safe, but it wasn't, it's proud of all the games that have come before and I'm so happy it exists.

Alucrid · Mar 12, 2019

i don't care. i'm not really playing these games for the pay off of its through line.

clockstrikes · Mar 12, 2019

I stand by that the mobile game (when its main scenario actually updates) has one of the better written stories of the series. Having been invested in that since the beginning was hugely rewarding in KH3, and I'm stoked to see what comes next.

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Mar 12, 2019

Nemesis162 said:
Nomura isn't the cutscene director and he's not doing everything unlike what fans and haters claim. Masaru Oka is the cutscene director of Kingdom Hearts since BBS and he's the one responsible for it.

Kingdom Hearts has consistently had some of the worst directing in cutscenes of any game out there so it's clearly something that Nomura and other top people don't think needs to get better even if he's not literally making music decisions.

Japanmanx3 · Mar 12, 2019

How do I feel???

All is right in the world.

Crossing Eden · Mar 12, 2019

You know the issue with expecting people to be caught up on literally every piece of media is that the stories of those other games aren't good.

Nemesis162 said:
Nomura isn't the cutscene director and he's not doing everything unlike what fans and haters claim. Masaru Oka is the cutscene director of Kingdom Hearts since BBS and he's the one responsible for it.

They should replace him because yeesh the scenes comprised of OC characters can be so lifeless at times.

Ryengeku · Mar 12, 2019

Nightengale said:
Simply the best.

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How do we feel about KH3's triple-down? (full game spoilers)

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