Bingo.
The FF8 remaster has battles that run in 60fps (iirc) but the menus don't and it's WAY worse.
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How did we ever accept 15 fps battles in jrpgs?
- Thread starter Chance Hale
- Start date
Bingo.
The FF8 remaster has battles that run in 60fps (iirc) but the menus don't and it's WAY worse.
I was too busy plotting my moves to care. š Also, it was fine for the time, maybe even great considering the technology involved.
This is what I think whenever I see a thread where someone picks "popular old game" and says doesn't hold up. It didn't have to "hold up" back then. Frame rate crawls weren't an issue because we didn't know better. It was common amongst numerous games. I didn't even know what it was nor care.
I couldn't imagine being a gamer today and experiencing just this or last gen and going back to try to play some of those old games. It would be a miserable experience because you've always known higher or smoother frame rates and graphics. It's like going back and using a 15 year old phone and saying it doesn't hold up. True, but back then it may have felt like the pinnacle of quality and experience.
This actually!
Even in the PS2/GCN/XboxOG era, if there was slow down we saw it as something cool because the game was pushing itself to the limits and we'd joke about it being slow mo to make it look cooler. We actually LIKED when it would slow down!
Nowadays everyone gets pissy when a game drops down to 50 fps from 60...
I only find performance drops in games like Just Cause 2 or 3 due to massive explosions acceptable because it reminds of the cinematic slow mo of one of those action films of the protagonist walking away slowly from his work after some cool action cut or whatnot.
Slowdown in some 2D action titles on the SNES with so much stuff going on. I guess Contra III might be a good example I enjoy for the same reasons.
As for turn based RPGs. As long as the menu controls are full speed and aren't impeded or sluggish in anyway, I don't really care. My favorite game of all time, Suikoden II also has frame drops during some of the fancier spell animations. I think it adds a nice dramatic flair to it all.
FYI, the Moguri Mod allows you to speed up the battle framerate. Unfortunately, this also has the effect of speeding up gameplay, since I believe the timing code was fixed, but hey, FFIX's pacing is so slow that I highly recommend 20 or 25 FPS.
It's in the config file.
It's in the config file.
oh for fucks sake , just because a youtube channel brings evidence and analisis of performance dosent mean it hypnotizes people.
People were aware of shitty framerates before Digital Foundry. If you like the low fps and want to be ignorant of them, good for you but theres nothing wrong for having higher standards than playing star fox on the snes at 12fps.
Conversely people now also obsess over small and infrequent dips that they themselves would probably not notice, but now they've seen it in a graph in a YouTube video, must feel the need to judge and berate the game. Though perhaps that's more just general internet culture in this day and age. Too many people with too many opinions
Damn, didn't know this. They look super optimized. Kudos for them for making it work.
It's because 3D was new. It was trash even back then, though, people just didn't know better. Also, being an RPG helps, since it doesn't require precision or anything like that.
At some point people will wonder how 30fps was ever accepted.
It's surprising people still accept 20-30fps games at this day and age. I hadn't played Breath of the Wild in two years or so and just started messing around with the game again and man, the performance is atrocious. It's distractingly bad. To the point where it hurts the gameplay. The framerate regularly drops down to the low 20s. Animation in BotW looks really choppy. Same goes for the Hyrule Warriors demo. That and the blurry image quality. It's just not fun anymore.
Playing PS5 with 60fps or more and almost nonexistent load times across the board really spoils you.
It's surprising people still accept 20-30fps games at this day and age. I hadn't played Breath of the Wild in two years or so and just started messing around with the game again and man, the performance is atrocious. It's distractingly bad. To the point where it hurts the gameplay. The framerate regularly drops down to the low 20s. Animation in BotW looks really choppy. Same goes for the Hyrule Warriors demo. That and the blurry image quality. It's just not fun anymore.
Playing PS5 with 60fps or more and almost nonexistent load times across the board really spoils you.
The menus were snappy and that matters more for a turn-based game than the animation given that there's no direct info for reactions and input needed. Can't say frame rates have ever bothered me in the games at the point of release (with the exception of bugs like PS3 Skyrim where it dropped to a literal slideshow in places), but I would notice the huge difference between 15fps and modern games now.
Less than tbh late 360 had horrendous framerates and even early last gen games ran pretty poorly.
I think this really boils down to the fact that you're playing a port of a game outputting video to a display that the original game was not designed for. I recently played through FFIX and VII on my PS2 hooked up to a CRT via composite and it never would have occurred to me that the frame rate of the battles and the menus weren't the same. It just isn't an issue 99% of the time.
It's a bummer if this issue lessened your enjoyment of the game, but that's not really the fault of the game, here. It's just the limitations of adapting games designed to run on certain hardware so they can run on other hardware.
It's a bummer if this issue lessened your enjoyment of the game, but that's not really the fault of the game, here. It's just the limitations of adapting games designed to run on certain hardware so they can run on other hardware.
OP
OP
That just speeds the battles up not the same. Combat fps is engine locked
This, AND it was like 17% slower on top of that. So the framerate cap was 16.67 FPS AND it ran in slow motion. The PAL release is straight up a shit experience. In retrospect it was a scam, honestly.
That didn't stop kid me obsessing over the game though lol
The slow arse ATB in FF9 bothered me more than the animations. Still one of the greatest greats though. What's interesting is when you play the new versions with fast forward, I was playing FF8 recently and going back to regular speed (something I've played through on many a time over the years) feels weird once it's fast and snappy.
I mean, people used to play Quake deathmatches at like 15 fps too.
30 was not the expected norm for 3d titles for years anywhere.
It just goes to show that most games are pretty playable regardless of the framerate.
Also, keep in mind that first person or even third person cameras as we know them today (free look with first person style controls) were NOT common until the early 2000s on console. Low FPS rotation can be nausea inducing, but low fps motion in general is much less problematic.
I will say, it's noticeable when you're comparing like for like, which is why Mario Kart 64 always sucked to me, it felt awful compared to Super Mario Kart. But that's also a game that effectively has a fast moving third person behind the back camera too.
30 was not the expected norm for 3d titles for years anywhere.
It just goes to show that most games are pretty playable regardless of the framerate.
Also, keep in mind that first person or even third person cameras as we know them today (free look with first person style controls) were NOT common until the early 2000s on console. Low FPS rotation can be nausea inducing, but low fps motion in general is much less problematic.
I will say, it's noticeable when you're comparing like for like, which is why Mario Kart 64 always sucked to me, it felt awful compared to Super Mario Kart. But that's also a game that effectively has a fast moving third person behind the back camera too.
I was someone who knew about framerate, the magazine's I read at the time would sometimes mention issues like that and I played a lot of games that could still run at 50/60 even then, particularly fighters. Still though I was able to enjoy games with lower framerate, and I was unaware that some I enjoyed could get that low.
Even now I find I can get used to a low framerate if it doesn't hamper my control too much and isn't too jumpy. It's jarring at first if I've been playing something much smoother but I can adjust if I give it time unless it's something that really requires a lot of fluid movement like a fighter or character action. Older games probably are easier to deal with since they where designed to work at low fps since that's all they had.
Even now I find I can get used to a low framerate if it doesn't hamper my control too much and isn't too jumpy. It's jarring at first if I've been playing something much smoother but I can adjust if I give it time unless it's something that really requires a lot of fluid movement like a fighter or character action. Older games probably are easier to deal with since they where designed to work at low fps since that's all they had.
It's because the manufactured gamer outrage industry wasn't nearly as organised, mobilised and militarised as it is now.
Now you find a flaw with a game, whip 4chan up into a frenzy, use LinkedIn to identify the team, send rape threats, set up an online petition for their sacking and shoot up their offices all in the space of an afternoon.
Just ... accepting flaws in games? Learning to live with them? Don't you even have standards?!
Now you find a flaw with a game, whip 4chan up into a frenzy, use LinkedIn to identify the team, send rape threats, set up an online petition for their sacking and shoot up their offices all in the space of an afternoon.
Just ... accepting flaws in games? Learning to live with them? Don't you even have standards?!
We managed like 17fps gameplay so 15fps sat watching some cool polygons fight while you selected things in a menu wasn't an issue.
Literally never noticed. When you were experiencing (ie, not actively playing) cinematic graphics like this on a PlayStation it was hard to care...
Literally never noticed. When you were experiencing (ie, not actively playing) cinematic graphics like this on a PlayStation it was hard to care...
Honestly, have never noticed those fights were low frame-rate.
This thread also made me realize how low-frame rate OoT was on N64 in PAL regions, which just about confirms that as long as it's playable, I just don't care.
This thread also made me realize how low-frame rate OoT was on N64 in PAL regions, which just about confirms that as long as it's playable, I just don't care.
I always assumed the lower frame rate was a result of allowing a 4th party member. Coming off IV and VI the reduction in party size 3 in VII kinda sucked (not to mention losing the unique abilities). But I don't recall what VII and VIII ran at.
Edit: I think gamers were more forgiving back in the day too. There are many beloved games on the NES and SNES that would experience significant slowdown if there were too many sprites on screen. You just kinda learned to accept it and maybe take a little pity on the little grey boxes under the TV for buckling under the load.
Edit: I think gamers were more forgiving back in the day too. There are many beloved games on the NES and SNES that would experience significant slowdown if there were too many sprites on screen. You just kinda learned to accept it and maybe take a little pity on the little grey boxes under the TV for buckling under the load.
I mean...This just isn't true. It likely just didn't bother you but FFIX absolutely runs it's battles at 15-20 FPS constantly. It can't be a "mod" problem when the game has played exactly like this since release.
People back in the day used to trash other games for reasons like "its for kiddies" and trash other systems because "it only has half as many bits" or "there aren't as many polygons per second" or whatever marketing junk they just read in a magazine. Atari Jaguar, 64 bits > 32 bits, do the math. Blatent nonsense in PS2 previews that mean the Dreamcast is worthless junk. Blast processing.
Unfortunately there never was a time where you could escape frothing fanboys except by removing yourself from their presence. When people didn't have concrete statistics, they would just make stuff up. I can't even begin to tell you how much nonsense I heard about games kids at school didn't like and the various reasons why.
15fps was also a common standard for FMV at the time. So the battles basically "feel" the same as though you were watching a video cutscene. But since the menu interactions were decoupled from the 3D scene and ran at full speed, the responsiveness of the inputs weren't affected by the low 3D framerate.
the first time I really appreciated or even really noticed 60fps in games was for trials HD on the 360. anything before that (unless it was massive slowdown) I wouldn't have noticed the difference unless it was pointed out to me. People didn't notice or there weren't the level of enthusiasts to point it out all the time that there are now.
I feel like the concept of hitstun as a feedback to the player evolved from this. Don't quote me on that, just seems like a natural evolution
As long as the menus are responsive the battle graphics could be an actual slideshow as far as I'm concerned. Which they used to be!
Overworld sucks to move around in though.
Overworld sucks to move around in though.
Because we didn't care enough to let it get in the way of us having fun.
Some of the older crowd here may remember playing Red Alert via system link and the framerate tanking to literally 1 or 2FPS during large tank battles. It was still fun!
Some of the older crowd here may remember playing Red Alert via system link and the framerate tanking to literally 1 or 2FPS during large tank battles. It was still fun!
We're talking about a time where PS1 was current gen and we were playing on a 480p crt tv where most people didn't even gave a shit about getting a cable that gave you a native clean signal (rgb cable).
It's not that hard to understand that people weren't bitching about fps.
It's not that hard to understand that people weren't bitching about fps.
Zone of Enders did this for me, after years on a PS1 I played ZoE and was like "this feels weird, like its sped up... but good"
Didn't find out for years why it felt better or what a framerate was
We were just happy to have 3D graphics, framerate was not an issue as long as the game looked pretty.
Magazines, TV and marketing did that in the before years. Videogame fanboys have always been idiots.
That always has existed. Magazines ignited that in the before years. Marketing gave them know
Top tier bait. Admirable.
Well it uh, doesnt really matter? The animations are usually built around that limitation so they dont even look that weird.
