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Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,556
I've been playing Monster Hunter World lately. Fantastic game, really cool-looking dinosaurs, but for a game that expects you to read so much on the tutorial they sure had to use the smallest font they could find. The worst part is that in many cases there's a ton of empty space, why won't you let me just make the text a little bigger?

God of War lets you increase the size of the whole UI, and that should be the standard for every game.
 

Kenzodielocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,840
I think it's because a lot of games get tested at a desk, in front of a monitor. It just doesn't occur as a problem. Cory Barlog said it was because of that and GoW shipped with very small fonts.
 

HardRojo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,097
Peru
GoW didn't initially have it and it had to be patched in. What games have very small fonts though? Other than MonHun mentioned in the OP, I can't recall.
 

Saikar

Member
Nov 3, 2017
334
Both when I used RPGMaker and when I'm making VNs, text formatting is consistently one of my most tedious things to handle. It's really easy to put a few characters too many on a line so that some of them push over the edge of the text boxes. Especially in english, where letters are different sizes and the fonts with the maker and the in-game fonts aren't the same. It was total guess work. Easily 90% of the bugs I didn't catch myself were either the text being too long on a line, being too short (cutting off weirdly 2/3 on one line while not doing it on others, it looks weird), having text boxes with different amounts of text randomly, all sorts of problems.

I can't fathom how annoying it would be if there were ways to increase the text size. The stuff going off the right edge or the bottom... ugh.

And God forbid if there's any changes to the text. Changing words because playtesters weren't familiar with them, adding reminder text and clarifications when it was vague, moving around minor reveals to make the story flow better. All of this changes how much text is on the screen at once, so yep: you've got to do the whole process over. It got to the point where I decided that less text was better just because it was less to fight with.

If you've never been through it, you don't know how many tedious back and forth hours it takes to get it right with even one font size.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,010
Uh, how on earth would that work
Most OSes, including the mobile ones, offer native text scaling options to developers. Presumably, the console developers could offer this in their development platforms. The console can auto detect the screen size via the HDMI data and scale the fonts dynamically.

Still requires development resources, though. And you'll need to QA the GUI as someone said before.
 

DSP

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,120
I often see games using fixed sized art for whatever custom style they have instead of scalable vectors like fonts. That's why you take a game and make it run at higher resolution text looks blurry and you also don't get easy size adjustment. It's a pretty bad outdated design, but it's pretty rare on modern games because they are expected to support a variety of resolutions and hi dpi screen and come with complete vector interface for everything.... they might still not let you change font size independently from the rest of the interface though because it might break text boxes and formatting they have. These would be the reasons why you don't get that, you have to think about this stuff from the onset of the project when you start doing UI and it's probably not a priority. You just go with a size big enough for everybody hopefully...
 

Aurc

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,890
I'll shout this from the rooftops if I have to. Not only do I play a moderate distance away from a TV instead of two feet away from a monitor, but I also don't have the best eyesight in general, so I need the option to increase text size whenever possible. It's infuriating when developers don't test their own games in the environments that someone at home is likely to be playing in: on the couch, several feet away from the screen, on a television. God of War's text size increase option did absolutely nothing, and I had to use the PS4's built-in zoom function to read things at times. I'd wager that a very small minority of GoW players were playing on a monitor instead of a TV.
Nice! Even more crunch!
Dude, this is an important feature that should be implemented whenever feasibly possible. They should naturally incorporate it during the dev cycle, or patch it in on day one. The readability of vital onscreen information is necessary to consume the product as intended. I can't help having shitty eyes, I already wear glasses.
 

Jonathan Lanza

"I've made a Gigantic mistake"
Member
Feb 8, 2019
6,795
There are a bunch of reasons why but ultimately it should be standard at this point. There are tons of accessibility options that the game industry is lagging behind on. Full subtitles aren't even a thing yet for a lot of JRPG's. Lord knows how many times characters will speak mid-battle only for it to remain unintelligible due to backround music or being in a different language.

Text size would also probably stray off the inevitable eye problems our generation is gonna be kicked in the teeth with a decade or 2 from now.
 
May 18, 2018
588
Nice! Even more crunch!

They could use the time for font sizing options instead of adding extra fish in a pond no one will notice. There's lots of unneeded things in games.

Anyway, The Witcher 3 had the option to make the descriptions bigger and I didn't realize it was something that I (and others) needed. This needs to be in all games in some form
 

BriGuy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,275
Part of the reason I love playing retro games is just because I can comfortably read the text from my couch. I especially hate how modern JRPGs not only make the text tini, but also no longer confine it to a text widow so that it sticks out from the scene.
 

WhtR88t

Member
May 14, 2018
4,580
I thought for sure Nintendo would have required devs to implement this with the Switch. Seems to me if you were to develop a system that's designed to work between a 65" TV and a 6" portable screen there would be native text scaling built into the OS/available for developers to integrate. A lot of Switch games text becomes close to illegible when played in portable mode.

They should handle it like mobile does, where you set it at the system level and the apps/games adapt to it. I understand it's a pain to test and implement, but if it was system level at least there'd be some standard that devs can try to follow. Also, as I understand it, Unity and Unreal aren't the best at adaptive UI and UI scaling either.
 

chalkitdown

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,218
Mortal Kombat 11 on Switch BADLY needs this. It's terribly optimized for portable mode. You can barely tell the difference between x & a on the move list screen. You need to squint for a LOT of menu text as well.
 

Eggiem

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,775
An option to increase the text size isn't going to make studios crunch if they aren't already. Hell, you could say this for literally every feature they could implement.
Console makers should offer an API for it then.
I'll shout this from the rooftops if I have to. Not only do I play a moderate distance away from a TV instead of two feet away from a monitor, but I also don't have the best eyesight in general, so I need the option to increase text size whenever possible. It's infuriating when developers don't test their own games in the environments that someone at home is likely to be playing in: on the couch, several feet away from the screen, on a television. God of War's text size increase option did absolutely nothing, and I had to use the PS4's built-in zoom function to read things at times. I'd wager that a very small minority of GoW players were playing on a monitor instead of a TV.

Dude, this is an important feature that should be implemented whenever feasibly possible. They should naturally incorporate it during the dev cycle, or patch it in on day one. The readability of vital onscreen information is necessary to consume the product as intended. I can't help having shitty eyes, I already wear glasses.
They could use the time for font sizing options instead of adding extra fish in a pond no one will notice. There's lots of unneeded things in games.

Anyway, The Witcher 3 had the option to make the descriptions bigger and I didn't realize it was something that I (and others) needed. This needs to be in all games in some form
Asking for accessibility options is not the same as asking developers to crunch.
This stupid reaction could be used to swat down literally any feature in any software ever made.
Calm down, I forgot the /s. xD
 

senj

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,430
Most OSes, including the mobile ones, offer native text scaling options to developers. Presumably, the console developers could offer this in their development platforms. The console can auto detect the screen size via the HDMI data and scale the fonts dynamically.

Still requires development resources, though. And you'll need to QA the GUI as someone said before.
Guessing you're not a dev?

It works like that on mobile platforms because most apps are constructed out of standard UI "components" provided by the OS. The standard Text components are instrumented with scaling logic that's exposed via Accessibility preferences to the user.

There's no one standard UI component for text (or anything else UI wise) in all games on a platform. Every game kind of does it's own thing. Some games from scratch, some games use a third party UI framework (Scaleform or a bunch of other alternatives). There's no "API" a console maker can offer that will magically make a bunch of different solutions scale however they happen to render text. Games won't want to use a standard platform-specific component if one were offered down the road, if they want to port to multiple platforms.

The best bet is for each of the major engines to start offering this (and even then, some games will choose to ignore it and roll their own). But it's no simple thing; scalable text rendering is a hard as shit problem that takes years to get right.
 

Zem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,969
United Kingdom
https://www.resetera.com/threads/de...titles-in-video-games-stop-being-trash.41641/

We had a good thread here (not that this shouldn't be a thread, just to show how widespread a problem it is) with lots of info and it feels like most games fail when it comes to text size, subtitles, and a combination of both. It's a personal pet peeve of mine, which is why I remember that thread, and it pisses me off when text size is too small or subtitles are terrible laid out.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,010
Guessing you're not a dev?

It works like that on mobile platforms because most apps are constructed out of standard UI "components" provided by the OS. The standard Text components are instrumented with scaling logic that's exposed via Accessibility preferences to the user.

There's no one standard UI component for text (or anything else UI wise) in all games on a platform. Every game kind of does it's own thing. Some games from scratch, some games use a third party UI framework (Scaleform or a bunch of other alternatives). There's no "API" a console maker can offer that will magically make a bunch of different solutions scale however they happen to render text. Games won't want to use a standard platform-specific component if one were offered down the road, if they want to port to multiple platforms.

The best bet is for each of the major engines to start offering this (and even then, some games will choose to ignore it and roll their own). But it's no simple thing; scalable text rendering is a hard as shit problem that takes years to get right.
Good clarification. Thanks!
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,545
GoW didn't initially have it and it had to be patched in. What games have very small fonts though? Other than MonHun mentioned in the OP, I can't recall.

Tons of console games have this problem because the devs are working on a monitor right in front of them are aren't taking into account people sitting 10+ feet back playing a game on their couch/recliner.

I'm playing Days Gone right now and i have to squint sometimes to read small text.
 

Saty

Member
Oct 27, 2017
610
One of the baffling realities of console games. Living room devices that can't play games with the average distance between player and tv in mind. Go check The Order. Tiny HUD\tool tips and subtitle fonts. It's a borderline parody.
Why isn't there an option to scale up or down text as part of the certification. But god knows you ought have fluff like 'don't turn off console while saving' messages.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
For me, anything designed to be seen on a TV/monitor and then ported to a portable can be a problem for this.

Monster Hunter 3U on WiiU, in off-screen mode, I found hard to read.

Strategy game/dungeon crawl (or any other text-heavy genre) ports can be tough too. On Vita, Space Hulk and Darkest Dungeon seemed to have little attention paid to the interface for portable, despite charging full-price for the port. X-com could be tough too. If a game is going to be sold on a device with a portable mode, with little time or budget available, then at least a magnification option for turn-based stuff or on pause screens could help.
 

Trace

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,689
Canada
Unfortunately UI design is both extremely neglected in console games as well as very hard to implement properly.
 

skeezx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
20,131
yeah a lot of games i have shelved for until i buy a 65". it's just utterly ridiculous with some games
 

Tony72495

Member
Apr 26, 2019
118
It should all be industry standard. UI scale, colorblind support, subtitles (they pretty much are already), and control mapping.
 

Tony72495

Member
Apr 26, 2019
118
yeah a lot of games i have shelved for until i buy a 65". it's just utterly ridiculous with some games

I find it's more an issue on PC, but thankfully it's gotten better. I play all my PC games on a 50" in the living room, and clearly some games were scaled for sitting at a desk in front of a monitor. Like in Division 2, they thankfully have a large UI mode, otherwise it would be unplayable.
 

Unicorn

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
9,528
I will sign this petition! So frustrating as a couch PC player. So often I just run 720p just to make font larger.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,070
Because someone would have to put it in the game and they're busy putting other things in the game
 

Slam Tilt

Member
Jan 16, 2018
5,585
Mortal Kombat 11 on Switch BADLY needs this. It's terribly optimized for portable mode. You can barely tell the difference between x & a on the move list screen. You need to squint for a LOT of menu text as well.
The latest Switch firmware lets you double-click the Home button for a zoom feature, so it's not totally painful.

But yeah, as a person who primarily plays on the Switch portably these days, this is annoying. If anything, instead of adjustable screen size there should be minimal standards for text readability. Like a certain level of contrast, and being legible for a person with 20/20 vision on a 45" TV at five feet away, or whatever. Even without regulations, this should be part of the basic usability/UX/art design standards for each project.
 

Gengahrrr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,227
Days Gone is the most recent offender of this.

The font size on the survival wheel is ridiculous.