I love eating meat and love animals of all shapes and sizes. I could never hunt and kill one myself if left in that situation. Thankfully I don't have too. I just enjoy the food as it exists whether I want it to or not so because there's meat available for me I'll partake in it's consumption. I feel horrible that animals are slaughtered the way they are but it's an out of sight out of mind scenario. I've watched lots of documentaries and videos of how it's all done to get meat on my table, however it's never deterred me. I just keep living my life and eating steaks because I enjoy it. There are so many atrocities in this world and there's no way to stop them. If I could I would but since I'm just one person I don't feel that it matters. So meat it is. The poor animals that die in horrific manners are unfortunately a way of human life.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
How can people call themselves ’animal lovers’ and then eat meat?
- Thread starter Sid
- Start date
Oh I know. Just a bad attempt at a joke. My daughter is hardcore vegan and I fully support her every step of the way.
Tired of this kind of "debate". Can't people just do what they want to do in regards to the food they eat and just leave it at that? Why the need to lecture or hector or guilt trip or aggressively defend with statistics, or just act like a general dick in talking about how much you love meat to vegans?
There's enough shit going on in the world without making one of the few pleasures in life a fucking battleground.
There's enough shit going on in the world without making one of the few pleasures in life a fucking battleground.
Already covered all of this, it's a good idea to read the full conversation before you respond.
OTHER people began making generalizations like "it's too hard/costly/time-consuming" with no specific reasoning for why this may be, and my responses literally said "unless you have something specific, it is not".
OF COURSE if there is a specific reason (as stated, numerous times now) like geography, access to supermarkets, health reasons, etc.. then you Already KNOW why you cannot do it and you do not need to justify it.
However, many people who perpetuate the "cost/time/difficulty" idea will not have any of these issues holding them back, and THAT is what I have been countering. I have LITERARY always said "if you cannot for good reason, this is perfectly fair".
I don't usually get involved with internet arguments, but 75% of the current farmland is NOT in those locations. Additonally, have grown up in a poor country, I can tell you the options of eating or even thinking about vegeterian/vegan are not on people's minds unless it's for religious reasons or severe allergies (like a family member of mine). I can't speak for the entire world, and neither should you.
Even if people are on this forum, it doesn't mean they have easy access, the financial means to change diets or don't live alone (and can't change at the drop of a hat just because they prefer something different). I'm sure there are many others that have their reasons too. Others simply like eating meat. Can our consumption be reduced globally? Yes. But attacking people like that will often just make them double down and ridicule any diet that doesn't include meat.
Edit: Sentence was unfinished.
Serious question; is this an American issue? What do you guys eat? Microwave food?
To be fair, it needs to be debated. In general, we should all be eating less meat. For some people, that means reducing meat consumption to once per week, or becoming a pescatarian, or becoming a vegetarian that still eats animal products, or going full vegan. Everybody, however, should take an opportunity to assess how they are able to eat less meat. Even if it's one less day per week, it goes a very long way to help reduce the damage we are doing to the planet with an excess of animals raised for consumption purposes.
Sure... true.
But dogs and cats are animals. So the statement isn't technically untrue.
I don't think you are understanding anything I'm writing.
"I have friends who do it" good for them! Why the hell are you still trying to guilt me? Like, do you actually get pleasure from it?
IT'S INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT I LOOKED INTO IT.
It's expensive, it hard to prepare, my kids will hate it, my health problems will get worse, my parents will hate it.
You have the privilege, me and people like me don't. I can't afford it, financially or mentally.
My entire reason for posting in thread is to point out that stuckingnyour nose in the air and saying everyone can do it is extremely shitty and condescending and you are literally proving my point.
and yeah, some of it is "Fuck cooking an elaborate meal after working all day and doing household chores and struggling with chronic autoimmune diseases. So I guess I'm lazy AND a horrible person/mom[/I]
Like someone else said, oh you buy video games? You have a smart phone? Don't you care about unsafe working conditions in third world countries? Damn you're a horrible person for not any extra income you have to feed the homeless kid. Why are you volunteering all.your free time? Wow hypocrite.
Animals are cool. I like dogs, pets about as much as the next person.
Animals are also delicious.
These are two thoughts I have in my head and my brain has not melted. Hope that helps, OP.
Animals are also delicious.
These are two thoughts I have in my head and my brain has not melted. Hope that helps, OP.
Every human is a walking contradiction or a hypocrite in some way based on their lifestyle, this isn't as clever a gotcha as you think it is.
I wouldn't call myself an animal lover, but I do think all plants and animals should be treated with respect. There isn't too much meat in my diet, but it is a necessary part of my diet since I'm allergic to the vast majority of vegan sources of protein.
I wouldn't call myself an animal lover, but I do think all plants and animals should be treated with respect. There isn't too much meat in my diet, but it is a necessary part of my diet since I'm allergic to the vast majority of vegan sources of protein.
I really hate myself for posting in on of those threads but some of you go really far with your argumentation to defend the indefensible.
Sorry for the rant, I HATE talking about anything related to this because there's just no way for one side to understand the other, so any discussion is pointless and infuriating for me. But some of the posts here... Unbelievable.
Sorry for the rant, I HATE talking about anything related to this because there's just no way for one side to understand the other, so any discussion is pointless and infuriating for me. But some of the posts here... Unbelievable.
And people were pointing out those specifics. You just ignored it.
I get being pationate but no need to talk over people.
Nobody's perfect. Shaming others for what they eat is not the road to progress either. The world needs to reduce it's consumtion of meat/dairy but I find it completely counter-productive to make it an all-or-nothing issue because quite simply most of the world is not ready to completely change their diet like that.
If the average person would reduce their meat/dairy-consumtion by like 10% it would be a huge amount of progress. I don't see any reason to go the route of "if you eat any animalistic products at all you are a BAD person".
If the average person would reduce their meat/dairy-consumtion by like 10% it would be a huge amount of progress. I don't see any reason to go the route of "if you eat any animalistic products at all you are a BAD person".
It was clear when you started that you were venting frustration, and I get that. It's shit to be told by others that "you could do better" when you know very well you are doing the best you can. I honestly didn't mean to do that, and I was more countering the ideas that you were throwing out as general barriers while trying to also say "I fully understand if YOU cannot do this as I don't fully get your specifics, but these things are not barriers IN GENERAL".
I'm not trying to tell YOU specifically how YOU can do better, and I apologize if it came across that way, but you must understand how the tone and some of the things you posted are generalizations that people often make to dismiss the diet in the ways I was trying to counter?
I'm not ignoring them, at all, and anyone who is reading my posts fairly can see that.
You specifically asked me for 5 common meals I prepare so you could tell me how "easily " I could make them vegan but you weren't condescending me? Okay
And yeah I'm frustrated. I'm sick, the apocalypse is going on, my kids are going insane, etc and crap like this really gets under my skin because I do feel guilty, of course I do, but there's nothing I can do about it and I'm not a special case. Hell good luck getting freaking tofu in rural communties.
Thanks for the link to the study. It was a good read and very informative. I knew there was an imbalance but I didn't know it was that significant of one.
For sure man. I'm not here attack people who eat meat. As I stated, I totally get it. And I don't mind if people eat meat if they just own up to it. What I can't get behind is people coming up with ridiculous reasons to get rid of any guilt they might feel otherwise.
"Everything we do has a negative impact somehow, so why bother."
"Animals eat animals, so why shouldn't we?"
"The alternative isn't perfect either!"
These are some of the arguments that you can find in this thread and that's incredibly silly. Don't conjure up such self defeating nonsense. It's fine if you like meat.
Honestly I love animals but I also think that killing an animal to eat is not wrong (well as long as you do it in a way that you Can sustain the species population). What I do object to and makes me a hypocrite is how the animals we raise for food are treated during life (like the conditions they are put in). That does make me feel guilty about eating meat. And I'll admit it's pretty much cause meat is one of my favorite foods and I'm too weak to give it up. Though if I managed it I think I'd learn how to cook Indian food cause that culture really knows how to make flavorful vegetarian dishes.
Not a good example. Many people (including me) don't feel life begins at inception. St that point it's just a bunch of cells.
That was just an extension of the argument I was trying to make, in a general sense. And you had yourself made generalizations, hence me attempting to counter them. I didn't mean to be directly telling YOU about your specific situation, and again I apologise for not making my point better, but can you get how my own frustration could be triggered by the tone of your posts and others ITT making the kinds of generalizations on combative/dismissive ways that they are?
I'm sorry you're going through what you are, if anyone tries to guilt you into doing "better" they can fuck off, honestly. I truly didn't mean to do that.
It's cool. I wasn't attacking you personally, mind. Hopefully this is learning process for everyone.
because they love animals and eat meat
is this actually confusing? feels like the yet you participate in society meme except it's about the basic systems of our planet
is this actually confusing? feels like the yet you participate in society meme except it's about the basic systems of our planet
The entire reason I responded to the thread was because of generalizing people are doing. For fucks sake people are in here saying not being vegan is indefensible. Can you honestly not see how people who are not middle class would be super fucking frustrated with that? Indefensible like eating meat is comparable to child abuse or murder or something.
I've never actually responded to threads like this because I try to be nice to everyone and not stir pots but there's only so much someone can take.
It's like telling someone working 2 minimum wage jobs that they could get a better job if only they got a degree, it's easy so many people do it.
And, from my perspective, I see just as many people making dismissive generalizations and I'm getting frustrated with them, hence my responses. We crossed over somewhere in the middle of all of this.
And please stop the "middle class" stuff? I know so many working class people on minimum wage/poverty line who are healthy vegans. THAT is the kind of generalization that is frustrating to see.
Okay I'm done now. I can't understand how you can't see that saying not being vegan is indefensible is not a privileged position. Enjoy the thread.
I was kinda making a joke about how it is overly used and often misapplied with barely a solid connection to the topic at hand so... I guess thanks for explaining it?
Then you're not being fair, fiction, because my posts make it clear that I think that statement on its own without any consideration of other factors in people's lives would be stupid and unfair. And while a few of my posts to you might not have been clear., I think I have gone out of my way now to clarify.
If you cannot see that, then I don't know what else to say.
Your post could have meant what I was countering, too. You can't really make an ambiguous post like that and complain when a response doesn't land with your intent.
Honestly?
I can buy a pound of chicken from my local grocer for $3.50-$4.00. The equivalent of non-meat product for making a similar meal calorie-wise/nutrient-wise would run me $6.00-$8.00 at this time. A massive pork tenderloin that can become part of a meal that will feed me for 3 days is incredibly cheap.
I eat non-meat as often as I can, but there are times when buying meat products is just straight up cheaper. I wish I had the luxury of having a high enough income to go purely vegetarian, but I don't. A great many people are in the same boat and I Imagine a non-meat diet will be a lot easier when things like Beyond meat isn't $8.00 for under a pound. I don't understand the condescending and judgmental attitude to a lot of non-meat eaters adopt towards people that are struggling as-is. Y'all suck.
The price of food varies wildly depending on where you work. The example of making minimum wage and being able to eat vegan does not apply if you live in a lot of places because those decent vegan options just do not exist. Good luck finding vegan cheese in most of America outside of specialty stores.
I can buy a pound of chicken from my local grocer for $3.50-$4.00. The equivalent of non-meat product for making a similar meal calorie-wise/nutrient-wise would run me $6.00-$8.00 at this time. A massive pork tenderloin that can become part of a meal that will feed me for 3 days is incredibly cheap.
I eat non-meat as often as I can, but there are times when buying meat products is just straight up cheaper. I wish I had the luxury of having a high enough income to go purely vegetarian, but I don't. A great many people are in the same boat and I Imagine a non-meat diet will be a lot easier when things like Beyond meat isn't $8.00 for under a pound. I don't understand the condescending and judgmental attitude to a lot of non-meat eaters adopt towards people that are struggling as-is. Y'all suck.
The price of food varies wildly depending on where you work. The example of making minimum wage and being able to eat vegan does not apply if you live in a lot of places because those decent vegan options just do not exist. Good luck finding vegan cheese in most of America outside of specialty stores.
Humans are complex. I love animals and eat meat. It might not make sense to others, but I personally think that saying "you can't love animals and eat meat" is too black and white of a stance.
I really have no justification for continuing to eat meat other than convenience. I know my meat consumption contributes to environmental conditions and poor conditions for animals, which I hate to think about but remind myself from time to time to push myself a little bit closer to becoming vegetarian. I can't eat soy and with how busy I am in general, it's a lot quicker and easier for me to make the meals I already know how to make, and buying bulk chicken breasts for cheap at Costco is great for my limited budget. If I had more time and energy to sit down, learn about appropriate meat replacements and plan meals accordingly, I would and could probably make it work. Right now, that's not an option for me short of someone doing all of that work for me.
I will say though, coming from the angle OP came at is only going to make people defensive. If we want people to reduce meat consumption, I dont think jabs at how they must not love animals are the most effective.
Yeah, I feel you. Or like saying "I have a friend who works minimum wage and is able to pay their rent with ease, why can't you?" Different circumstances, etc etc.
I really have no justification for continuing to eat meat other than convenience. I know my meat consumption contributes to environmental conditions and poor conditions for animals, which I hate to think about but remind myself from time to time to push myself a little bit closer to becoming vegetarian. I can't eat soy and with how busy I am in general, it's a lot quicker and easier for me to make the meals I already know how to make, and buying bulk chicken breasts for cheap at Costco is great for my limited budget. If I had more time and energy to sit down, learn about appropriate meat replacements and plan meals accordingly, I would and could probably make it work. Right now, that's not an option for me short of someone doing all of that work for me.
I will say though, coming from the angle OP came at is only going to make people defensive. If we want people to reduce meat consumption, I dont think jabs at how they must not love animals are the most effective.
Yeah, I feel you. Or like saying "I have a friend who works minimum wage and is able to pay their rent with ease, why can't you?" Different circumstances, etc etc.
This is your first post in the thread, astro. This is exactly the thing I'm talking about. You don't know everyone's situation, and it's your privilege to have a great easy time being vegan. At this point, you are turning it into an astro vs Fiction argument, when my whole point is "condescending vegans who claim non vegans are immoral are being awful"
But like I said, I'm bowing out. You will have the last word. Sorry that I upset you.
You don't need to substitute meat with beyond or other marketed "meat substitutes". Lentils, beans, quinoa, etc all are packed with protein and cheaper than meat.
And before I hurt anyone's feelings, I'm not judging anyone's dietary choices, just trying to engage in conversation.