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Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
The issue here is that there is a direct link to something, that piece of meat on your plate was cut directly from an animal likely in an industrialized fashion where countless animals suffered in shit conditions so efficiency and cost effectiveness could be maintained.

With prodicts that come form the industries, there is a direct link between the meat and dairy you consume and the suffering of the animals the industry exploits. We should all be able to understand this and own it if we make the decision to consume animal products.

That image is usually used when a person's ideas for progress are shot down because they live within the system they're trying to progress, and while it could work in this instance there is no denying the direct link from plate to animal suffering is one we cannot deny.

Or you could just, y'know, buy your meat from actual farms that have actual standards rather than factories that practically have animals on conveyor belts. I get that American style farms are becoming increasingly more "necessary" due to population grows increasing the demand beyond the current supply, but they're still not common enough outside of America that the rest of us have to buy our meat from them. All my meat comes from local farms and they actually look after the animals they keep, so I'd say I can love those animals and still eat meat.

Paying attention towards where the stuff you buy comes from is kinda common sense, anyway, and it's not like buying meat from a supermarket is worth it when there are local butchers who are more discerning about the quality of the meat. Quality over quantity and all that.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,875
Or you could just, y'know, buy your meat from actual farms that have actual standards rather than factories that practically have animals on conveyor belts. I get that American style farms are becoming increasingly more "necessary" due to population grows increasing the demand beyond the current supply, but they're still not common enough outside of America that the rest of us have to buy our meat from them. All my meat comes from local farms and they actually look after the animals they keep, so I'd say I can love those animals and still eat meat.

Paying attention towards where the stuff you buy comes from is kinda common sense, anyway, and it's not like buying meat from a supermarket is worth it when there are local butchers who are more discerning about the quality of the meat. Quality over quantity and all that.
Yes, you could, but those places cannot meet the demand which is why the industry exists as it does. The only way for places like that to meet demand would be for demand to go way down.

And I don't personally think you can say you love the animals you're eating... I don't think you hate them, or want them to suffer, but I don't think you can love something and then kill it to appease your appetite.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,198
Then people can simply say that they're dog/cat/whatever lover.

Caring about a certain animal over another doesn't mean you don't love animals. You just don't love all animals equally. Humans are animals too. It would also be way too wordy to list every single animal a person happens to like too instead of simply saying they love animals. It's a generalization, get over it.
 

Deleted member 2840

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,400
Then people can simply say that they're dog/cat/whatever lover.
I'm a canidae and felidae lover, and most birds lover, except for chicken and turkey. I'm also a fish lover except those 30 species, I'm also an insect lover but I may not love them in a few years if I want to be better for the planet. I love cows, except on Sundays when I have a churrasco.
 

Fiction

Fanthropologist
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,722
Elf Tower, New Mexico
Because humans are complicated omnivores with emotions. We eat meat because we are biologically supposed to and not everyone can support an expensive vegan diet. We love animals because we have souls and in the case of dogs, evolved with them.

I am an incredibly tolerant person but people who push this "you're a soulless hypocrite if you eat meat!" Bs just want something to feel morally superior about.

Sorry, I'm in a mood today. It's great you have the privilege to eat a fancy diet, not everyone does.
 

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,859
Metro Detroit
Can you support the fight against climate change and drive a car or take a bus?
Personally, I don't think this comparison works it's about doing what is reasonably within your power.
For example I care about both the climate and animals, so we only have one car, having no car is not really reasonable within most of the US. However not me eating meat is reasonable and possible almost everywhere.
 
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ThreepQuest64

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
5,735
Germany
I mean they are just contradicting themselves at this point
People do that all the time since the dawn of mankind. I think animal lovers who indeed do not eat meat would still squash a mosquito if it comes near them, although I wouldn't rule out there are people who wouldn't even do that.

It's all about degrees. I love animals enough that I admire many birds, admire some insects, mammals, fish, etc., owned a dog and I love them enough so I don't eat their meat. On the other hand, I don't love cows enough to not eat their meat. If that marks me as someone who says he loves animals but who in fact, according to the logic in the OP, doesn't... well, than I think I gotta live with that.
 

Herr Starr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,215
Norway
How can people call themselves animal lovers and then like cats? Cats eat meat, after all. I mean, they are just contradicting themselves at this point.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,875
Because humans are complicated omnivores with emotions. We eat meat because we are biologically supposed to and not everyone can support an expensive vegan diet. We love animals because we have souls and in the case of dogs, evolved with them.

I am an incredibly tolerant person but people who push this "you're a soulless hypocrite if you eat meat!" Bs just want something to feel morally superior about.

Sorry, I'm in a mood today. It's great you have the privilege to eat a fancy diet, not everyone does.
"Biologically supposed to" doesn't really mean much today, and an "extensive vegan diet" is VERY often overblown in difficulty. A vegan diet can be sourced very cheaply by most people on this forum. It is not ""fancy", it is just basic food components that the majority of us here have easy access to. It is also no more time-consuming than regular food preparation, you can google countless easy/quick/cheap/nutritious vegan meals online, right now.

While some people cannot due to geography, access to shops, medical conditions, and a host of other things that are valid reasons why it wouldn't work, the "difficulty" myth is perpetuated far too often and for many of us (I would say most on this forum, as above) it is just not true.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,198

Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
When I buy my chicken breast I pull the grocery store attendant aside and ask them if the chicken was an asshole when it lived. They assure me that yes, the chicken was a complete prick and also voted for Trump, so I cook and eat it vigorously.
 
Dec 2, 2017
20,585
whnuvoh4od031.jpg
 

ProtomanNeo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,190
There is a certain arrogance that comes with OP statement. That somehow because plants don't possess in their limited view the same consciousness as animals or humans they are ripe for the slaughter.
 

FliX

Master of the Reality Stone
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
9,859
Metro Detroit
Or vegan dishes that try to replicate the taste of meat. Why? Oh why?
What's so hard to understand. Many vegans/vegetarians didn't become vegan/vegetarian because they hate the taste of meat or their favourite childhood dishes...
Also it's about making plant based food more accessible to carnivores. Many of whom say things like " I need Ma meat" or "proteeeeeen!"
 

Ruisu

Banned
Aug 1, 2019
5,535
Brasil
People should probably just not use expressions like "I love animals" when really they mean "I love dogs/I love cats" or whatever. Or if you just find some animals cute but don't really care what happens to them like street animals.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,875
Or vegan dishes that try to replicate the taste of meat. Why? Oh why?
I'm a vegan and I miss the mouth feel and taste of meat quite often. I love eating meat, it's delicious... I just don't want to. So a product that fills that void as well as it can is very appealing to me.

They're also good to help convince meat eaters to cut down on their meat consumption, which is good for everyone.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254
How can people call themselves animal lovers and then like cats? Cats eat meat, after all. I mean, they are just contradicting themselves at this point.

Dogs eat meat too, unless you're one of those weirdos that tries to force your dog to eat a vegan diet and then go on a chat show proudly boasting that your dog is vegan only to pretend to be shocked when the dog immediately goes for the meat bowl.
 

Patapuf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,401
Yes, you could, but those places cannot meet the demand which is why the industry exists as it does. The only way for places like that to meet demand would be for demand to go way down.

And I don't personally think you can say you love the animals you're eating... I don't think you hate them, or want them to suffer, but I don't think you can love something and then kill it to appease your appetite.

Ah so it's not really about how evil the meat industry is after all.

It's very easy to love animals, care for them and still eat them. The mental anthropomorphising many people, especially people that only really have contact with pets do, isn't the only form of animal love.

And arguably, it's not even a love that's particuarily good for animals in the first place.

Animals are not human. Organisms eating each other is the circle of life.

You can take care and love nature and still be part of that cycle. In fact, it's unavoidable.
 

Aurongel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
7,065
I don't feel incredibly guilty about it because I actively explore artificial meat options and vegan protein sources like Huel. I'm likely never dropping meat completely but I do take some comfort in knowing that I'm making moves towards consuming far less meat products overall.

It's absolutely still hypocritical but at least it's progress.
 

1000% H

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,639
Tbf, most people only eat a few animals. The other 99.9999999999999% of animals are not eaten. If you wanna do a "gotcha" over the 0.0000000000001% then I don't think you actually care about solving any issues
 

Rogote

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,606
I eat meat without guilt because my life is so empty and shitty when measured in traditional terms because at this juncture I do not have the emotional capacity to stress myself with the whole vegan vs carnivore discussion. Basically, when one doesn't have the basics of life down it's harder to see, even attempt to see beyond one's own life and it's current and very real everyday struggles.

Well, that's how it goes for me. The day I'll start giving more serious consideration for the vegan argument and it's implications for potentially changing my own habits is the day that I've gotten myself out of this empty routine I'm currently in.
 

Lcs

Member
Aug 9, 2018
268
It's like in that movie Perfume

Where the fragrance makes them love the guy so much that they eat him
 

Kthulhu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,670
Because I need to eat some meat in order to be heathy as some vitamins are rare in plants.
 

Quixzlizx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,591
I know people who say they're extroverts who love being around other people. But I got them to admit they wouldn't spend time with Hitler. OWNED

Then they admitted they no longer wanted to spend time around me. OWNED AGAIN
 

Deleted member 4783

Oct 25, 2017
4,531
"You live in Capitalism yet you think something better should take its place? Curious, I'm very smart"