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Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
52,945
The House is set to vote to protect same-sex and interracial marriages, a direct confrontation with the Supreme Court, whose conservative majority in overturning Roe v. Wade abortion access has sparked concerns that other rights enjoyed by countless Americans may be in jeopardy.

Tuesday's vote in the House is part political strategy setting up an election-year roll call that will force all lawmakers, Republicans and Democrats, to go on the record with their views on the high-profile social issue. It's also part of the legislative branch asserting its authority, pushing back against an aggressive court that appears intent on revisiting many settled U.S. laws.

"As this Court may take aim at other fundamental rights, we cannot sit idly by," Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., the chairperson of the House Judiciary Committee, said in a statement.

While the Respect for Marriage Act is expected to pass the House, it is almost certain to stall in the Senate, where most Republicans would surely block it. It's one of several bills, including those enshrining abortion access, that Democrats are pushing to confront the court's conservative majority. Another bill, guaranteeing access to contraceptive services, is set for a vote later this week.

www.npr.org

Bill to protect same-sex and interracial marriage passes overwhelmingly in the House

Wary of political fallout, GOP leaders didn't direct members to hold the party line against the bill and dozens of Republicans joined Democrats in passing it. But it will likely stall in the Senate.
 

Clefargle

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,120
Limburg
Get it through the senate for fucks sake make them actually filibuster it to stop it not just threaten it
 
Oct 29, 2017
13,470
Good. Get congressional republicans on record voting against it, and push it through.

Do the same for desegregated schools, because you know they're gonna take aim at Brown v Board.
 
Nov 5, 2017
3,478
This might be a stupid question, but can't the courts just overturn the law if it passes the House and the Senate, ruling it unconstitutional or something?
 

Thorn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
24,446
This might be a stupid question, but can't the courts just overturn the law if it passes the House and the Senate, ruling it unconstitutional or something?
The logic the court used is that these things need to be made laws via Congress, not a Supreme Court decision.

If magically the Senate voted to make gay marriage and abortion legal everywhere the courts would have no say.
 

AaronD

Member
Dec 1, 2017
3,254
Republicans will lock step vote against as usual so I'm not sure the point of getting them on record. They're already on it by the R next to their names.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,348
This might be a stupid question, but can't the courts just overturn the law if it passes the House and the Senate, ruling it unconstitutional or something?


It wouldn't be unconstitutional. The reason it's in danger in the Supreme Court is that it relies on the same right to privacy that SCOTUS has decided we don't have.

What could be done is a new law banning same sex marriage once Republicans had the presidency and Congress again.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
This might be a stupid question, but can't the courts just overturn the law if it passes the House and the Senate, ruling it unconstitutional or something?
I think you guys are forgetting the court, even a conservative one, doesn't just overrule law it feels like. Nothing in the Constitution even talks about how marriage is defined so why would it be found unconstitutional? This court, as terrible as they are, have consistently taken the opinion of "Is it in the Constitution/amendments? Okay, is it a federal law? Okay, then states have the power"

Republicans will lock step vote against as usual so I'm not sure the point of getting them on record. They're already on it by the R next to their names.
Yeah, I truly don't get the insistence of getting people on records. It won't affect anyone voting Republican. It'll actually only affect moderate Dems, so I guess it's a positive in that regard, but people who vote Republican aren't going to suddenly not do so
 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,622
I'm surprised that the system is set up to allow them to just *not vote* on something that's already passed by the other house. I can see them tabling something that's just being introduced, but if it's already been passed, the other house should be forced to vote on it.
 
Nov 5, 2017
3,478
I think you guys are forgetting the court, even a conservative one, doesn't just overrule law it feels like. Nothing in the Constitution even talks about how marriage is defined so why would it be found unconstitutional? This court, as terrible as they are, have consistently taken the opinion of "Is it in the Constitution/amendments? Okay, is it a federal law? Okay, then states have the power"


Yeah, I truly don't get the insistence of getting people on records. It won't affect anyone voting Republican. It'll actually only affect moderate Dems, so I guess it's a positive in that regard, but people who vote Republican aren't going to suddenly not do so
awesome explanation, thanks! this helps a ton!
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,348
Portman supports marriage equality. His son is gay. And since he's retiring this might be the last chance to get his vote on it. If ever there was a case for filibuster exception, this should be it.
 

Thordinson

Member
Aug 1, 2018
17,913
They could, but they would need to show how it's unconstitutional. Nothing about this bill is unconstitutional.

"It's unconstitutional because of our newly made tradition test says so. Only states can decide because we said so."

They don't really have to "show" anything. They can decide as they wish. Do I think they will see this as unconstitutional? Likely not.

I think you guys are forgetting the court, even a conservative one, doesn't just overrule law it feels like.

It does in many ways. It's not that uncommon for the Court to ignore its own logic.

I think you guys are forgetting the court, even a conservative one, doesn't just overrule law it feels like. Nothing in the Constitution even talks about how marriage is defined so why would it be found unconstitutional?

They can find it unconstitutional in anyway it wants. Nothing stops it from doing that. They could argue that only states can decide because states grant marriage certificates. I'm not saying they will do this, but they have ways to do it, if they so wish.
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,276
It's also part of the legislative branch asserting its authority, pushing back against an aggressive court that appears intent on revisiting many settled U.S. laws.

I hate this framing. Like Congress is being fucked with over the recent rulings instead of the truth, which is Congress has been shirking its responsibilities for years if not decades to both the judicial and executive branches of govt.

We all learned it as kids. Legislature makes the laws, Executive enforces them, Judicial reviews them. But Congress (in its inability to actually pass laws with any frequency) has decided to shove very serious issues like abortion, health, immigration, college debt, etc... over to the White House and Supreme Court.
 

Wyguy

Alt Account
Banned
Jun 24, 2022
44
When is the actual vote on this happening? I've been waiting all day. I've heard Republicans aren't being whipped either way so I'm hoping it passes with a larger majority than expected and somehow makes it through the Senate. Susan Collins already said she'd vote for it, so maybe there's hope?
I don't want to get my hopes too high but as an LGBT person living in the US, the amount of hope I'd get if this passed would be immense.
 
Apr 2, 2021
2,080
Cool can't wait for a bunch of republicans to say "I'm not hateful but...." and then for a bunch of fuckers on facebook to tell me its actually ok and gay people wont be discriminated unless they're a pedophile, so if I'm at all scared about anti-LGBT sentiment in the republican party that just means that I want to defend pedophiles. This is fun!
 

Thorn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
24,446
Cool can't wait for a bunch of republicans to say "I'm not hateful but...." and then for a bunch of fuckers on facebook to tell me its actually ok and gay people wont be discriminated unless they're a pedophile, so if I'm at all scared about anti-LGBT sentiment in the republican party that just means that I want to defend pedophiles. This is fun!
They like to use "state rights!" To shield their bigotry.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
They can find it unconstitutional in anyway it wants. Nothing stops it from doing that. They could argue that only states can decide because states grant marriage certificates. I'm not saying they will do this, but they have ways to do it, if they so wish.
Except states granting marriage certificates isn't in the Constitution. The times the SC has ruled on marriage and granted it to States was in striking down the Defense of Marriage Act because it tried to define marriage as between a man and a woman, allow states to discriminate, and violated the Due Process Clause (life, liberty, pursuit of happiness) and 14th Amendment (equal protection). Nothing in the Constitution defines what marriage is so a federal law doing so would be extraordinarily hard to rule as unconstitutional unless they can point to a specific clause/amendment it violates

When is the actual vote on this happening? I've been waiting all day. I've heard Republicans aren't being whipped either way so I'm hoping it passes with a larger majority than expected and somehow makes it through the Senate. Susan Collins already said she'd vote for it, so maybe there's hope?
I don't want to get my hopes too high but as an LGBT person living in the US, the amount of hope I'd get if this passed would be immense.
It would need 60 votes in the Senate to pass without eliminating the filibuster. It passing in the House is pretty much guaranteed
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,348
Except states granting marriage certificates isn't in the Constitution. The times the SC has ruled on marriage and granted it to States was in striking down the Defense of Marriage Act because it tried to define marriage as between a man and a woman, allow states to discriminate, and violated the Due Process Clause (life, liberty, pursuit of happiness) and 14th Amendment (equal protection). Nothing in the Constitution defines what marriage is so a federal law doing so would be extraordinarily hard to rule as unconstitutional unless they can point to a specific clause/amendment it violates


I think thordinson's point is that they don't trust this court to not just make something up, and who is going to stop them? I think that's probably a premature thought process, but who knows?
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
I think thordinson's point is that they don't trust this court to not just make something up, and who is going to stop them? I think that's probably a premature thought process, but who knows?
I guess it's not impossible, but this court really hasn't made anything up yet( to my knowledge, but I may be mistaken). As was stated by this post

I hate this framing. Like Congress is being fucked with over the recent rulings instead of the truth, which is Congress has been shirking its responsibilities for years if not decades to both the judicial and executive branches of govt.

We all learned it as kids. Legislature makes the laws, Executive enforces them, Judicial reviews them. But Congress (in its inability to actually pass laws with any frequency) has decided to shove very serious issues like abortion, health, immigration, college debt, etc... over to the White House and Supreme Court.

This Court's been able to rule on these things because there aren't federal laws explicitly defining them and precedent from prior rulings isn't binding (just another one of those soft agreements found throughout the US political system), so they leave it up to states to decide
 

Gigglepoo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,313
Why the hell didn't Congress ever pass a law protected abortion in the fifty years since the Roe decision? How asinine do you have to be?
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,348
Why the hell didn't Congress ever pass a law protected abortion in the fifty years since the Roe decision? How asinine do you have to be?

To be fair, they've tried plenty, and a law protecting abortion only makes it safe until there's a republican President and Congress that can simply pass a law outlawing it.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
To be fair, they've tried plenty, and a law protecting abortion only makes it safe until there's a republican President and Congress that can simply pass a law outlawing it.
Well it'd require a Republican President AND the numbers in Congress, otherwise Trump would've overturned tons of laws. Instead he was left just overturning executive actions
 

Gigglepoo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,313
To be fair, they've tried plenty, and a law protecting abortion only makes it safe until there's a republican President and Congress that can simply pass a law outlawing it.

You could say that about literally everything the government does, though.

I'm glad they're doing it but my god, I really wish our government institutions were proactive rather than reactionary.

Exactly this. Gotta put their feet to the fire to get anything passed except for expanding military budgets.
 

Nothing Loud

Literally Cinderella
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,975
Very important, affects me personally. Got married in Texas and currently live in WA, if ssm is dissolved I don't know if that would dissolve my Texas marriage and force me to remarry here or what. What a mess.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,938
Why the hell didn't Congress ever pass a law protected abortion in the fifty years since the Roe decision? How asinine do you have to be?

For the same reason exit polls going back every election since I've been alive show that most people didn't prioritize abortion rights in how they voted. People thought Roe v Wade was settled.

I mean, there are a ton of basic rights and liberties not coded into law because our government functions on gentlemen's agreements and that idea that, once gained, a matter is settled.

But ain't shit ever settled in this shithole country.

Important to keep that in mind.
 

ZeroMaverick

Member
Mar 5, 2018
4,433
I'm legit wondering how Senate republicans will justify voting no on this. Or will Schumer let them off easy and not require a vote?
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,348
I'm legit wondering how Senate republicans will justify voting no on this. Or will Schumer let them off easy and not require a vote?

That's counter to the entire point of this. I don't have a lot of faith in Schumer sometimes, but I'm sure they got together and hammered out how this will go.
 

Davey Cakes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,687
Massachusetts
To be fair, they've tried plenty, and a law protecting abortion only makes it safe until there's a republican President and Congress that can simply pass a law outlawing it.
If they pass popular pieces of legislation then people will continue voting for them.

That's what's so annoying about how Congress currently operates. They are constantly walking on eggshells, trying not to be "radical" while also operating at the behest of their donors. If they had balls and made real, progressive, popular decisions then they wouldn't have to worry about losing power. The working class wants change!

It's crazy to me how Congress's approval rating is so low and how they don't seem to care. They would gain the trust of the people if they actually worked hard at doing things that improve people's material well-being.

Someone needs to run on getting big money out of politics, expanding the court, and ending Citizens United.
 

Clefargle

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,120
Limburg
I hate this framing. Like Congress is being fucked with over the recent rulings instead of the truth, which is Congress has been shirking its responsibilities for years if not decades to both the judicial and executive branches of govt.

We all learned it as kids. Legislature makes the laws, Executive enforces them, Judicial reviews them. But Congress (in its inability to actually pass laws with any frequency) has decided to shove very serious issues like abortion, health, immigration, college debt, etc... over to the White House and Supreme Court.
Yes these are the issue that Dems have been squeamish about for decades and republicans rightly identified them as weakness or potential wedge issues
 

Thordinson

Member
Aug 1, 2018
17,913
Except states granting marriage certificates isn't in the Constitution. The times the SC has ruled on marriage and granted it to States was in striking down the Defense of Marriage Act because it tried to define marriage as between a man and a woman, allow states to discriminate, and violated the Due Process Clause (life, liberty, pursuit of happiness) and 14th Amendment (equal protection). Nothing in the Constitution defines what marriage is so a federal law doing so would be extraordinarily hard to rule as unconstitutional unless they can point to a specific clause/amendment it violates

I agree with this except the dissent argued that there were not Due Process or Equal Protection violations. It wouldn't be the first time the Court has disallowed Congress from enacting law through the 14th Amendment. It has said that only it can say what's protected under the 14th Amendment. If it feels that same-sex marriage is no longer protected under the 14th, Congress has no power to limit the 1st Amendment, as religious folks will argue is being violated here.
 

rjinaz

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
28,392
Phoenix
I'm legit wondering how Senate republicans will justify voting no on this. Or will Schumer let them off easy and not require a vote?
Don't worry, they are "too busy" to vote on this stuff anyway...

View: https://twitter.com/igorbobic/status/1549473220427976706?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1549473220427976706%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=

To be fair, they have month long vacations several times a year to get to.
 

Kazooie

Member
Jul 17, 2019
5,013
They can find it unconstitutional in anyway it wants. Nothing stops it from doing that. They could argue that only states can decide because states grant marriage certificates. I'm not saying they will do this, but they have ways to do it, if they so wish.
It's a huge step from saying: This is not stated in the constitution (because it appears both, the right for abortion and for gay marriage as found by the court in the past relies on a pretty liberal interpretation of the wording) to going "this is unconstitutional". I doubt that the supreme court would be willing to go the latter route. Which is why I think the best approach is to codify explicitly all rights that are only derived from a liberal reading of the constition. It is of course a shame that making these rights into laws is such a difficult thing in the first place.
 

ZeroMaverick

Member
Mar 5, 2018
4,433
That's counter to the entire point of this. I don't have a lot of faith in Schumer sometimes, but I'm sure they got together and hammered out how this will go.
So you think he'll actually bring this to a vote? And are there not at least 10 Rs in the Senate willing to pass this? Because that seems insane, even by their standards. This is a cut and dry situation. I understand, at least in theory, Rs voting against an abortion law. But voting against this is nonsense, especially since so many marriages have already been honored.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,348
So you think he'll actually bring this to a vote? And are there not at least 10 Rs in the Senate willing to pass this? Because that seems insane, even by their standards. This is a cut and dry situation. I understand, at least in theory, Rs voting against an abortion law. But voting against this is nonsense, especially since so many marriages have already been honored.


I'm less confident after that Durbin tweet.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
I agree with this except the dissent argued that there were not Due Process or Equal Protection violations. It wouldn't be the first time the Court has disallowed Congress from enacting law through the 14th Amendment. It has said that only it can say what's protected under the 14th Amendment. If it feels that same-sex marriage is no longer protected under the 14th, Congress has no power to limit the 1st Amendment, as religious folks will argue is being violated here.
Did I read this incorrectly? It said both sections 2 and 3 (1 was simply naming it) were ruled as unconstitutional/unenforceable by rulings in cases that cited Due Process and Equal Protection