House Democrats will vote on bill exploring reparations

[Viewt]

via Politico

House Democratic leaders on Wednesday committed to a floor vote for legislation to study reparations for the descendants of slaves — a historic move for the black community after the party sidestepped the debate for decades.

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer told reporters that Democrats plan to vote on the bill, which he said would "look at how we try to compensate for the extraordinary racism and denigration" that African Americans have long faced.

"I think that's a very serious issue and we need to look at it," Hoyer said.

The bill, drafted by Rep. Sheila Jackson Lee (D-Texas), would create a commission to look at a "national apology" for slavery and discrimination against African Americans, potentially including compensation.

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As the article mentions, McConnell is against this, citing the election of Barack Obama as an atonement for slavery (yikes).

I've yet to hear an argument against reparations that isn't steeped in bullshit. Yes, it will be hard, yes it will be uncomfortable, and yes, it will be wildly unpopular with a bunch of idiot racists and people who pretend to be not-racist. But it's the right thing to do. So let's do it.

 

[Brinbe]

fuck it, do what's right.

 

[Siyou]

Should've been "looked at" a long time ago.

 

[TheTurboFD]

Would be cool to see the data on how many people in the US are descendants of slaves. I thought there was a study that showed it was a very low percentage of African Americans are actually related to those in slavery. I could be wrong though, interesting none the less.

 

[Deleted member 8741]

That Coates ether:

Ta-Nehisi Coates, whose 2014 essay "The Case for Reparations" reintroduced the issue to the national conversation, rebuked McConnell in his testimony before the House Judiciary Committee Wednesday.

"Majority Leader McConnell cited civil rights legislation yesterday," Coates said. "As well he should — he was alive to witness the harassment, jailing and betrayal of those responsible for that legislation by the government sworn to protect them."

Coates also directly disputed McConnell's argument that no one currently alive was responsible for the fallout of slavery, rattling off half a dozen instances of racist violence that took place in the 77-year-old senator's lifetime and denouncing "a relentless campaign of terror" that stemmed from the laws and policies that followed slavery.

"It is tempting to divorce this modern campaign of terror, of plunder, from enslavement," he said. "But the logic of enslavement, of white supremacy, respects no such borders."

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[Snack12367]

Is there even a number that comes close to it? Ignoring all the other shit that took place after slavery and continues to take place, is there even a number?

At the very least, free Higher Education and free Health Care.

 

[Blader]

I genuinely have no idea how reparations would work in practice, but a commission to at least study if it's even feasible is long long overdue.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

(Me, having benefited from generations of cumulative ancestral wealth and institutional accommodation)

But that's not fair to me!

 

[Volimar]

It's an incredibly difficult to tackle issue. Just deciding who gets what is a logistical nightmare. But considering it's pretty much a non starter in the Senate anyway, they might as well explore it.

 

[Deleted member 4367]

I can't imagine how excited Republicans are by this news.

 

[Skunk]

This president will veto that so hard it will get launched into space, and the GOP will never override the veto for that.

Good that they are talking about it though.

 

[Cation]

Regardless of what you think, I think making a committee to see how many decendents are currently in the US and what their needs are + how they compare. Any data at this point will help make a stronger case and more fitting payment

 

[platocplx]

Personally It doesnt have to be monetary, I think it should be based on tons of tax breaks, education and housing advantages given to reverse all the BS thats taken place by the govt. But I know i dont really have that much say myself since my parents are from the carribben and this would affect people who are direct descendants of slaves in the US. Is that how it would work?

Regardless of what you think, I think making a committee to see how many decendents are currently in the US and what their needs are + how they compare. Any data at this point will help make a stronger case and more fitting payment

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I agree this should be at minimum quantified.

 

[Artificial Housewife]

What do people envision? A direct payout? This argument has never seemed productive. Most times people try to make it more appealing by stating that it will be more about funding programs but it feels like the same thing would be accomplished through subsidized health and childcare while also properly funding public schools and maybe granting some college tuition relief.

All the reparation discussion does is harden racists against stuff that we need as a country.

If they are actually talking about payouts, I have more faith in receiving my OJ prize, honestly.

 

[PMS341]

This is actually moving forward in some capacity. Really cool.

 

[Deleted member 4367]

Personally It doesnt have to be monetary, I think it should be based on tons of tax breaks, education and housing advantages given to reverse all the BS thats taken place by the govt. But I know i dont really have that much say myself since my parents are from the carribben and this would affect people who are direct descendants of slaves in the US. Is that how it would work?

I agree this should be at minimum quantified.

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It doesn't make sense to restrict it to direct descendants of American slaves because much of the argument is how horribly slavery has affected all black people in this country ever since.

 

[bossmonkey]

I genuinely have no idea how reparations would work in practice, but a commission to at least study if it's even feasible is long long overdue.

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That's exactly how I feel. Something needs to be done but I don't know what. I mean what do you do if a particular slave has 100 descendants but another has 3? Does that inherited reparation get split 100 different ways for some and 3 for others? It needs to be something useful but a bit more nebulous than 40 acres and a mule. What that is, I don't know.

 

[Hollywood Duo]

A payout will never work. Let's see what they settle on.

 

[samoyed]

Ideally I'd just give black americans the south as a new nation.

 

[platocplx]

It doesn't make sense to restrict it to direct descendants of American slaves because much of the argument is how horribly slavery has affected all black people in this country ever since.

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Maybe a cut off from people who had family in the US from the 80s and below that time, im not sure. I know at many lengths people who do choose to immigrate here while we may have faced out own challenges its a bit complicated vs generations of people who have been here. I dont honestly know how to cut it.

 

[Daria]

Is there even a number that comes close to it? Ignoring all the other shit that took place after slavery and continues to take place, is there even a number?

At the very least, free Higher Education and free Health Care.

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having higher ed and healthcare as incentives doesn't extend far enough as there are already candidates fighting for these to give *everyone*. if someone is going to talk to about reparations, you have to explore things that will far outlast a single generation, otherwise they'll feed higher ed and healthcare to a select group for 20 years and then when another POTUS reverses them, the argument is now "well, you already received X and Y.. we don't need to give you this new Z."

 

[PSqueak]

Ideally I'd just give black americans the south as a new nation.

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Whatever happened to the show that would explore this anyway?

 

[DigitalOp]

Do the police ask you if you're an American Descendant of Slavery before they harass you?

Do Employment Opportunities ask if you're family was raised or immigrated here before they discard your resume due to an ethnic name?

Do white people give a fuck about those descending from slavery before they piss their pants in fear and call the cops for any little action being done by black individuals?


Its short sighted as hell to want to limit reparations to slavery..... America was built on a legacy of terrorism against black individuals. We have current fucking events that jus happened this week still present. A complete lack of rights being acknowledged. An uber generational divide in wealth and opportunities between black and white citizens....

Slavery was the fucking cause, but it wasn't the only sin. It has been a continual assault that has never ceased and the effects and ramifications have been spread worldwide. America is culpable and its 100% guilty of black defamation around the globe.

America perpetuates a constant assault on blackness as a whole, Let reparations be the first step in fixing that

 

[Post Reply]

Would be cool to see the data on how many people in the US are descendants of slaves. I thought there was a study that showed it was a very low percentage of African Americans are actually related to those in slavery. I could be wrong though, interesting none the less.

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There hasn't been a time in this country's history where there was mass immigration by black people into this country.

Who do you think we would be related to if not slaves?

My grandmother, who helped raise me, was the daughter of a woman whose parents were slaves. This isn't ancient history.

 

[Mass Effect]

Personally It doesnt have to be monetary, I think it should be based on tons of tax breaks, education and housing advantages given to reverse all the BS thats taken place by the govt

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Yes, if by some miracle reparations are seriously considered, I think the best course of action would be this.

It would be more palatable (for whatever that's worth), and more importantly, more beneficial long term.

 

[Rover]

It needs to be a comprehensive plan addressing institutionalized racism and pulling out the rotten weeds left from the civil war and Jim Crow era.

 

[Deleted member 12379]

Getting hard data on this would be a great start as this is one of those "how do you even begin to add everything up" things that's almost incalculable. Doing this right after the civil war would have been best, it would also render today's US unrecognizable. We left the insidious policies intact and gave whites a 150+ year head start on compounding interest and financial access. Think of all of the black family dynasties that never were, black businesses, etc. I don't have an answer but I think something needs to be done, and a study into this would be a reasonable start.

 

[samoyed]

Maybe something like tax credits, no strings attached, if you're black (well this needs to be qualified somehow), and then additional reparations depending on how long your family has been in the US.

With a new government agency designed to help you trace your origins? Though that's kind of a double edged sword. I don't want to put the onus on the families to dig out their heritage but I can't really trust the government to do it either.

DNA tests seems to be the best way to do it though. If your DNA puts your ancestor in the Congo and you aren't in the immigration database good chance you're a descendant of slaves.

 

[CesareNorrez]

As a white American I believe in reparations. And from what I've learned the past few years it is not just about directly giving money to people. It would include supporting the affected communities with specific programs that would correct and reverse the many ways they have been oppressed. It's complicated so it needs to be investigated. I just hope the investigation isn't where it ends.

 

[Rover]

Maybe something like tax credits, no strings attached, if you're black (well this needs to be qualified somehow), and then additional reparations depending on how long your family has been in the US.

With a new government agency designed to help you trace your origins? Though that's kind of a double edged sword. I don't want to put the onus on the families to dig out their heritage but I can't really trust the government to do it either.

DNA tests seems to be the best way to do it though. If your DNA puts your ancestor in the Congo and you aren't in the immigration database good chance you're a descendant of slaves.

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I wouldn't trust that process. Too much privacy and fuckery at risk.

 

[samoyed]

I wouldn't trust that process. Too much privacy and fuckery at risk.

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Right. I mean there might be undocumented blacks who won't be able to participate because it would put them at risk, and a republican government could use such a database at any time to deport americans or violate their rights somehow.

But obviously we also can't have people walking up for their dues and getting turned away because their skin tone is "too light", which is something I can foresee happening.

 

[TalonJH]

Would be cool to see the data on how many people in the US are descendants of slaves. I thought there was a study that showed it was a very low percentage of African Americans are actually related to those in slavery. I could be wrong though, interesting none the less.

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80% going by Wikipedia. Immigration has always been really low in the US for black people.

Of the 12.6% of United States residents who identified as black, around 10.3% were "native black American" or ethnic African Americans, who are direct descendants of West/Central Africans brought to the U.S. as slaves. These individuals make up well over 80% of all blacks in the country.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Americans

 

[Zippedpinhead]

Just thinking about ways to actually pay these out.

Why not issue government backed bonds that mature on different years based on the age of the recipient. Everyone gets the same amount based on how many ancestors were slaves but everyone has to wait some sort of years.

Non-transferable, any unclaimed bonds get rolled into either government backed programs or to help fund future payouts via interest generation.

Now how do you define a cut off, is it everyone currently alive as of x date with ancestors that were enslaved?

There are a ton of logistics to get this done right. I'm glad to see the conversation start.

 

[captmcblack]

Every single black American, no matter what, needs to be able to benefit from this, straight up, in the theoretical universe in which anything at all passed that was vaguely reparations-y.

No subdivisions or wedges created for some vague direct descendents of slaves (as if the colonies that formed America weren't literally European outposts for Caribbean and African slave trading), no measurements of molecular/sub-atomic cryptoblackness for eligibility...just justice for all black Americans.

 

[samoyed]

Every single black American, no matter what, needs to be able to benefit from this, straight up, in the theoretical universe in which anything at all passed that was vaguely reparations-y.

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I don't disagree with this but we'd still need to determine blackness beyond an eye test.

I think a blanket reparations is better than subdivision for the reasons you stated but the question remains: "who's black?"

 

[Carthago Delenda Est]

Just thinking about ways to actually pay these out.

Why not issue government backed bonds that mature on different years based on the age of the recipient. Everyone gets the same amount based on how many ancestors were slaves but everyone has to wait some sort of years.

Non-transferable, any unclaimed bonds get rolled into either government backed programs or to help fund future payouts via interest generation.

Now how do you define a cut off, is it everyone currently alive as of x date with ancestors that were enslaved?

There are a ton of logistics to get this done right. I'm glad to see the conversation start.

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There's literally no way the reparations will be direct monetary payments to black citizens. Not only would that not garner enough political support even among the left alone, it wouldn't at all work to solve the problem of racism in America and the legacy of slavery. The argument for reparations that actually has traction revolves around funneling money into support programs that can help bring people up to a competitive level with white folk.

I do hope this passes. It'll be great to get some actual ideas on paper for how this could be fixed.

 

[PeskyToaster]

I used to be against this but now I'm like whatever. I'm tired of stinginess and penny pinching from the richest and most powerful government on earth. Spend it like you got it.

 

[spookyduzt]

Doesn't stand a snowballs chance in hell of passing the Senate, so by the House leadership's logic makes it pointless and a waste of time. Right? Is that not the message they've been sending on doing shit that's right?

 

[TheTurboFD]

There hasn't been a time in this country's history where there was mass immigration by black people into this country.

Who do you think we would be related to if not slaves?

My grandmother, who helped raise me, was the daughter of a woman whose parents were slaves. This isn't ancient history.

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Thank you for your anecdotal evidence. I said it would be cool to see the data as people think that majority of slaves came to america. Apparently only about 300k slaves came to the US from 1501 to 1866. That and apparently only 25% of the south owned slaves according to

https://eh.net/encyclopedia/slavery-in-the-united-states/

80% going by Wikipedia. Immigration has always been really low in the US for black people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Americans

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Wow I actually didn't expect that high of a number tbh, I was actually guessing around 50-60%

 

[Deleted member 6230]

I don't disagree with this but we'd still need to determine blackness beyond an eye test.

I think a blanket reparations is better than subdivision for the reasons you stated but the question remains: "who's black?"

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GOing down this road will be absolutely horrfying

 

[captmcblack]

I don't disagree with this but we'd still need to determine blackness beyond an eye test.

I think a blanket reparations is better than subdivision for the reasons you stated but the question remains: "who's black?"

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This right here is really why you probably can't do much honestly... this will be the ultimate application of Paul Mooney's famous theorem on who wants to be black. The second anyone "gets something for being black", infinite Rachel Dolezals will arise to destroy the good intentions of the gesture.

 

[Serif]

This is a discussion this country absolutely needs to have without hand-wringing over implementation and giving up on the idea entirely. Reparations aren't just for slavery, it should be a way for the U.S. to atone for its ingrained anti-blackness.

And honestly, fuck it. Seeing that thread about the couple giving away millions to anti-vax causes has me all kinds of riled up. Do the right thing.

 

[Zed]

If reparations becomes a serious platform for Democrats I can see Republicans winning elections in a landslide even if Donald Trump is still running.

 

[Neil Howarth]

That's one way to lose the presidency for the next 20 years

 

[inner-G]

Not a bad thing to explore, but I don't know if the run-up to an election when we need to bring in the 'independents' from middle america is the best time to do it.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

Would be cool to see the data on how many people in the US are descendants of slaves. I thought there was a study that showed it was a very low percentage of African Americans are actually related to those in slavery. I could be wrong though, interesting none the less.

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Sounds like you're referencing and boosting half baked propaganda.

The percentage of African Americans actually descending from enslaved Africans is very low, somehow?

Use your brain

 

[Aureon]

Honestly, i don't think it's a sell.
Tracking down who is and who is not a slave-descendant, and how to split reparations (This guy is 55/64 slave, that guy is 15/64... i feel gross just typing that out, honestly.) is an impossible process.
Even going for black people, that's gonna be "What counts as black"?

The correct thing for reparations is to target directly disenfranchised, minority communities.

Since the effects of generational wealth are what they are, such efforts -will- end up befitting the people that needed them, because what we should care about is treating the current issue - wealth disparity, disenfranchisement, discrimination.

 

[Snack12367]

having higher ed and healthcare as incentives doesn't extend far enough as there are already candidates fighting for these to give *everyone*. if someone is going to talk to about reparations, you have to explore things that will far outlast a single generation, otherwise they'll feed higher ed and healthcare to a select group for 20 years and then when another POTUS reverses them, the argument is now "well, you already received X and Y.. we don't need to give you this new Z."

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Oh I'm all for this lasting for much longer than a single generation. If I was being poetic, I would say for as long as the US had slavery at least.

 

[Empyrean Cocytus]

It won't get past the Senate, and the Democrats know this. This is political posturing, though it's certainly effective.

 

[TheTurboFD]

Sounds like you're referencing and boosting half baked propaganda.

The percentage of African Americans actually descending from enslaved Africans is very low, somehow?

Use your brain

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Hence why I said it would be cool to see the data... If you read my other post I guessed it actually being around 50-60% but its actually 80%