I'm not inquiring about how the market works, I was only noting that those games represent a small percentage of the total of mainstream games released.
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Horizon Zero Dawn is one of the best selling female lead game of all time. Will at least this convince more publishers to do the right thing?
- Thread starter Toriko
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I'm not inquiring about how the market works, I was only noting that those games represent a small percentage of the total of mainstream games released.
I would love for the inclusion of more female protagonists or having the option to in games and in general, and having more diverse body types.
Wow, I was completely oblivious to her flirting with Petra. I thought it was more of an adoration born out of respect for Petra's crafting ingenuity.
At this point, I would even take a straight relationship because, as someone here already put, the notion that a female lead engaging in romance would buck the perception of her strength is true and imho more so in a straight relationship where the straight male player vicariously has to love and bed another man (NPC) through the eyes of a woman.
And full disclosure: I am a mostly straight guy and I would feel awkward if I could not dissociate myself from the female protagonist when knocking boots with another guy.
This is honestly ridiculous, and is exactly what right-wing gamers think developers do when it comes to diversity. They think that they aren't genuine about it and instead literally have a checklist of things that they try to tick off when creating a character. No one should approach characters like that.
Karnov?
That six pack and shredded muscles all around look like fat to you?
Heavy Rain
Probably a fair few point and click adventure games. Day of the Tentacle springs to mind.
Max Payne 3... sorta. Max does refer to himself as fat through his narration if memory serves, so I guess it counts.
It truly is pathetic. It's the exact same thing like a white person telling an African American they should be offended by something. No, you're not part of that culture, stop trying to be woke white hero. Maybe they have some first Nations influences because it's a cool fascinating culture and aesthetic? There's also Roman and Nordic influences that no one seems to mention. To me it looks like they just picked up ancient cultures that they think are cool
That's because 90% of the people who complain about cultural appropriation are complaining about one that isn't theirs.
How ironic that they are interjecting on another cultures behalf as though they have the grounds to speak on it and somehow see nothing wrong with that.
Are you part of the culture? Because if you're not, stop trying to tell people what they should be offended by like a hero. I guess I should just walk up to an African American and let them know they shouldn't listen to Rap because the lyrics set a bad stereotype (I don't believe that, just for sake of arguement)
The sad part is if studios are just going to be blamed for appropriation every time they choose to take influence and pay homage because they think something is really cool ....I wouldn't blame them for saying fuck it and going generic safe
I never said anything about you should be, or being offended but damn there are some eye raising quotables in this post
All I said was 'i sleep' and you went in that direction
Female leads... I'm its on a case by case scenario.
Is not that there no games with female leads, but more of a case where it makes sense for their roles. I think is more of a personality thing.
We have Metroid, Tomb Raider, and Resident Evil 1 with female leads (well you can chose but she has her own version of the story so it counts).
Is not that there no games with female leads, but more of a case where it makes sense for their roles. I think is more of a personality thing.
We have Metroid, Tomb Raider, and Resident Evil 1 with female leads (well you can chose but she has her own version of the story so it counts).
What?
First making a Female lead shouldn't be a big thing it should be basic, And Why are you saying a GTA female lead is somehow better then any others but i know if they did it get headline and hate when it should be everyday thing that happens
I see what you are saying Op , developers doesn't need to be afraid of female protagonist and we need/ appreciate original ip, diversity and HZD is a good example.
Just wanted to point out that Ubisoft really deserves more cred for .. ehh... creed.
I really like what they where doing with assassin's creed odyssey and before anyone calls out the dlc ending controversy... they listened to people and corrected it.
I really liked assassin's creed odyssey, it the first game I bought season pass for.
Edit: more choice in videogame. There is no reason (well exept developing costs) that you shouldet be able to choose
Just wanted to point out that Ubisoft really deserves more cred for .. ehh... creed.
I really like what they where doing with assassin's creed odyssey and before anyone calls out the dlc ending controversy... they listened to people and corrected it.
I really liked assassin's creed odyssey, it the first game I bought season pass for.
Edit: more choice in videogame. There is no reason (well exept developing costs) that you shouldet be able to choose
I have always thought that most people just want interesting and compelling characters. I don't believe Horizon would have sold differently to any significant degree if the lead was male but, all other things being equal, if they weren't as cool as Aloy, or portrayed as well as Ashly Burch's performance, then it could definitely have sold worse.
I know some people scoff at "generic" white male characters but there are plenty of great ones and not all white male characters are remotely the same beyond those two attributes. Likewise Aloy isn't just a woman, Lee Everett isn't just black, Ellie isn't just gay and Senua isn't just someone with a mental disorder. That is not to say this representation isn't important because it absolutely is but more than that they are interesting, relatable characters that lots of people love. The thing publishers should take from any of these characters being popular and their games selling well is that if you put the care and effort into creating unique and compelling characters then it will likely pay off.
Aside from the risk-averse publisher aspect I don't believe we'll ever truly get a reasonable level of representation until that is reflected on development teams. You don't have to be a woman to create a female character and you don't have to be black to write a black character but people are going to naturally gravitate to what they know and to create the best minority characters you're probably going to need direct input from people of a similar background. It appears from the outside the trends are going in the right direction but the majority of senior staff of development studios still seem to be white males, presumably straight too.
I know some people scoff at "generic" white male characters but there are plenty of great ones and not all white male characters are remotely the same beyond those two attributes. Likewise Aloy isn't just a woman, Lee Everett isn't just black, Ellie isn't just gay and Senua isn't just someone with a mental disorder. That is not to say this representation isn't important because it absolutely is but more than that they are interesting, relatable characters that lots of people love. The thing publishers should take from any of these characters being popular and their games selling well is that if you put the care and effort into creating unique and compelling characters then it will likely pay off.
Aside from the risk-averse publisher aspect I don't believe we'll ever truly get a reasonable level of representation until that is reflected on development teams. You don't have to be a woman to create a female character and you don't have to be black to write a black character but people are going to naturally gravitate to what they know and to create the best minority characters you're probably going to need direct input from people of a similar background. It appears from the outside the trends are going in the right direction but the majority of senior staff of development studios still seem to be white males, presumably straight too.
The PSOne version of RE3 sold worse than the PSOne version of RE2. Both games were ported to other platforms as well, though those sales were negligible (less than a million, which is why they aren't listed on Capcom's Platinum page). When a sequel sells worse than its predecessor, that's bad. Same applies to Dino Crisis.
Aloy is a white savior? We're acting like Aloy gets a teaching job in the toughest low income neighborhood and teaches all the kids about their "inner beauty" and helps them finally get straight A's. I forgot about that plot point halfway through the game where Aloy took in a young homeless black football player and helped him through college with nothing but the kindness of her heart.
I think the game would fit the trope if Aloy was framed as constantly solving the plights of helpless non-whites and if there was an attempt to assuage "white guilt" which I never got from this game.
Considering the diversity throughout the game and how refreshing it was to see, I don't look at it that cynically. Rather she and Sobeck are strong female characters at the forefront of the story.
It's not too clear in that game, but his later appearance is borderline bulky.
Well, there's a point to be made that Capcom made a cheaper mainline RE game because of a female lead and they expected less sales. Just look at Warner Brothers who made a cheaper SH movie with Wonder Woman (compared to Man of Steel specifically) since they probably weren't that optimistic about it's box office gross.
When looking at pure numbers, there's no doubt that data has not been favorable to women in geeky business and the suits will usually pay less when creative opt for it. Sony is an exception to the rule and I'm sure others will slowly but surely follow such as Gears 5 which is bucking the trend with a female lead. Let's see if Microsoft can get a winner in their hands and fight off the possible toxicity given the fanbase of that franchise. If anything, the success of HZD prove that games with female leads need just as high a budget and production values (and marketing). TLOU 2 will be a monster hit because Naughty Dogs is going all in and the graphics + animations are just next level so I'm sure it's anything but a cheap game.
A potential Resident Evil 3 remake is intriguing given the reception of the original, so I wonder if Capcom would be willing to go all in and give us an awesome remake that could easily improve upon the original if they were to spend the proper budget on it (another game which would serve as a study case lol).
User banned (7 days): Sexism
meh, many games wanted to be the new Tomb raider this gen. Yes I understand that the amount of female players is rising by the year but who says that many of them don't prefer playing as a male? I don't mind playing as a female but a logical context needs to be there. A small lady will not be able to overpower taller female/male enemies with physical strenght
Just as long as they don't give Carlos half the main campaign, as some people think they should.
I have no doubts R3make can sell as much as RE2 and RE7, assuming a similar quality. Jill and Nemesis can do it.
So, physical size and muscle strength are the only two qualifiers upon which games are built?
Not is this an utterly imbecilic argument but by that standard, myriad games would be instantly disqualified, even whilst featuring male protagonists.
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the hell? take it easy. Sorry for not making it obvious enough that I was not talking about myriad ,fantasy or fighting games but games that attempt to have more realistic fights in them. Then again Uncharted or Tomb raider aren't realistic in that sense, but if 4 huge muscular guys go at a gun and weapon-less nathan he wouldn't stand a chance. That's why it doesn't happen.
I mean, there's plenty of games with female leads and/or male/female options. Not sure what the issue is.
Ah, but that's the whole point though Skipper. That people didn't go "Oh, I like this game but it has a woman. Pass."they were more than happy to play as her.
I know you're banned, but I have to question what you believe a realistic fight actually is. Nathan Drake has literally gunned down over 1000 trained mercenaries over the course of the Uncharted games, often engaging in big prolonged shootouts with dozens of foes and just tanking through countless bullet wounds. The closest real life equivalents we have are people like Simo Häyhä, "The White Death", who was an expert marksman with a home field advantage waging stealth guerrilla tactics against disorganized Soviets over the course of a hundred days... And he still ended up with a shattered lower jaw when someone actually managed to tag him.
Not a fan of the thread title, sounds like developers have the obligation to do something. I'd rather let them choose to do what they feel like doing. That being said The right thing is releasing quality games with proper optimization for the target platforms, like Horizon Zero Dawn. As long as the game is good, I'll play it.
I understand the OPs PoV but again, not a fan of the thread title.
I understand the OPs PoV but again, not a fan of the thread title.
If you genuinely believe in diversity and equal representation, then yes, we all have an obligation. Especially media creators since it has such a huge impact on people's world views.
Yeah a game can have male or female character and do the 'right thing' it does sounds a little weird.
However there is much value in more diversity in gaming so more women and nonwhite leads, hell even aliens.
Horizon and Romb Raider success is pretty great , we are seeing more women lead games now just not used in the AAA space that much. The first and only Samus Aran is coming back too, though she had a problematic history when they tried to show the woman behind the metal suit