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j7vikes

Definitely not shooting blanks
Member
Jan 5, 2020
5,620
The last game I platinumed was Zero Dawn at least intentionally (I don't give a shit about trophies) and this will be the next for sure. Absolutely love these games and can't wait for three.

That said I'm still fairly early in game (just got to plainsong and did the story mission there) but I definitely agree with some of the comments on weapons and different ammo types etc. I like that the game gives you multiple ways to go about your murdering of robots but sometimes more is not always better.
 

j7vikes

Definitely not shooting blanks
Member
Jan 5, 2020
5,620
Me: *starts side mission*

NPC that I'm doing the mission with: *pours their heart out to Aloy along the way to the mission*

Aloy: "I gotta put this in my stash, I gotta put this in my stash, I could give this to a dyer, I gotta shake this wet off me, I gotta put this in my stash"

I wish one of them would have said "Hey Aloy, will you shut the fuck up for a minute and listen to me?"

I swear to god I've seen a million people say this but I don't find it to be annoying at all. I feel like she is very rarely saying these things in my game especially the stash stuff that I've heard people complain of so often. I'm not saying she isn't talking on my game but it doesn't seem excessive in the slightest and I could swear I've only heard the stash stuff a few times.

Or I could just be completely nuts as well.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
I got the F40 in gt7 so I can finally put that down for a minute lol. Damn that game sucked me in more than I expected.

Any I'm back to horizon this weekend and I am surprised that I spent it all going for side stuff. Side missions and such are not exactly works of genius, but a huge improvement over the first game. They are interesting and fun enough to be genuinely distracting. I meant to get farther in the main quest but I played for hours and didn't hit a single beat of it.
 

BoxManLocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,158
France
Finally done with the game after over 80 hours. Unlike Zero Dawn, which I had 100%ed, I'm leaving a bunch of stuff unfinished.

Never touched the races, the chess-like game, or the melee pits. Also left a couple of ruins and drones (both of those things sucked as collectibles), most hunting grounds (the arena rewards were much better so I went for that) a bunch of side quests and most errands.

Feels weird to leave all of this stuff but it's definitely a case of too much content for me.

Great game though. The main plot definitely didn't have as much impact as Zero Dawn but it was a much more consistent experience narratively, with each new story mission bringing something of value to the table. The story wasn't great by any means, and the ending really does away with any kind of depth regarding the game's main threat, but it was good enough, and held together by the support cast (would have taken Petra rather than Erend though) and a much better use of locales/environments than in the first game. The Poseidon mission was an excellent example of that. Awesome new character and incredibly cool place to visit.

The side quests were so much better than in Zero Dawn, especially the companion missions, and they managed to keep the Tallneck mechanic super fresh, each one being a completely different thing to approach. The cauldron one was definitely the coolest.

I do hope they put a lot more work in Aloy's characterization in the next game. She needs a real emotional attachment to other characters and different motives besides "I have to save the world cause I'm the only one who can". The distance and snark were a cool novelty in the first game, but here she just feelt shallow and she's very far from the best characters the industry has to offer.

Also I feel like Zero Dawn gave a lot more viable options to approach combat. Here as soon as I discovered the Spikethrower it was game over as I was basically able to curb stomp anything that came my way. And the horribly restrictive upgrade paths for gear really doesn't encourage versatility unless you're fine with carrying blue weapons for the entire game.
 

krae_man

Master of Balan Wonderworld
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,594
I swear to god I've seen a million people say this but I don't find it to be annoying at all. I feel like she is very rarely saying these things in my game especially the stash stuff that I've heard people complain of so often. I'm not saying she isn't talking on my game but it doesn't seem excessive in the slightest and I could swear I've only heard the stash stuff a few times.

Or I could just be completely nuts as well.

They did reduce how much Aloy talks to herself in a patch. Also you could be less grab happy then the rest of us.
 

j7vikes

Definitely not shooting blanks
Member
Jan 5, 2020
5,620
They did reduce how much Aloy talks to herself in a patch. Also you could be less grab happy then the rest of us.

I don't think I started playing until after the patch so that would be my biggest guess. I'm wearing out my thumb pushing triangle so it's definitely not about me being less grab happy.
 

J 0 E

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,241
Horizon is such a joy to play on an iPhone with a proper controller accessory like the Backbone. Remote Play has come such a long way from the PSP and Vita days.

The only clunky controls are the touchpad for map (got to sort of tap the screen 4-5 times to get it to activate) and the PS button since it requires the on-screen "..." button to be pressed. But everything else is smooth and basically perfect.

This is real time.


Why did I watch this video 10 times?
Nice work!
 

Jacob4815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,405
My only graphic complaint is the unnecessary amount of fog.

Sometimes it's very annoying. It kills the amazing views and the HDR colors.
 

trapt777

Member
Oct 25, 2017
551
I'm going overseas next week and I'm desperate to finish the main story before I leave.

Can someone please confirm approx how long I have left?

I'm at The Base ready to commence Wings of the Ten mission
 

MrTomato

Member
Jan 20, 2022
2,935
Alright, I listened to the point and she brought up the exact same thoughts I had about that moment. 100% agree. So no, I don't agree that her point is "stupid." It's a legitimate complaint.
Really?! Comparing Varl's death to the typical "black dude dies in a horror movie" is absolutely ridiculous. I definitely disliked the writing, because the death seemed very sudden and the plot moved on too fast from this event, but saying that this was a typical issue with black characters is silly. Why does it not make sense for the closest friend of Aloy to die? It is supposed to be a normal emotional high point in a story. The skin color has nothing to do with it. And comparing it to the horror genre made the argument even worse, because in those movies (mostly American movies btw), the black character gets no development and is always the first to die for some dumb reason.
Saying that Erend could have died also makes no sense, because we don't have any deep connection to him in this game and him being a drunk and idiot makes his character less likeable. The emotional hit would not have worked at all.
This was the typical "American" perspective on this.
Especially because someone like Zo got also tons of screen time and is a great character, thus not making Varl the "only" black character with depth in Aloys close circle, which Janet states as a fact.
I laughed really hard at her logic, personally. There is a difference between "something is not well written" and "something is written to underline a racist stereotype". I like her, but this was just such a weird take.
 

VanDoughnut

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,424
Really?! Comparing Varl's death to the typical "black dude dies in a horror movie" is absolutely ridiculous. I definitely disliked the writing, because the death seemed very sudden and the plot moved on too fast from this event, but saying that this was a typical issue with black characters is silly. Why does it not make sense for the closest friend of Aloy to die? It is supposed to be a normal emotional high point in a story. The skin color has nothing to do with it. And comparing it to the horror genre made the argument even worse, because in those movies (mostly American movies btw), the black character gets no development and is always the first to die for some dumb reason.
Saying that Erend could have died also makes no sense, because we don't have any deep connection to him in this game and him being a drunk and idiot makes his character less likeable. The emotional hit would not have worked at all.
This was the typical "American" perspective on this.
Especially because someone like Zo got also tons of screen time and is a great character, thus not making Varl the "only" black character with depth in Aloys close circle, which Janet states as a fact.
I laughed really hard at her logic, personally. There is a difference between "something is not well written" and "something is written to underline a racist stereotype". I like her, but this was just such a weird take.

Thanks I'll wait until I finish the game to read this.
 

Maxime

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,981
Before doing what I think is the last mission, I wanted to clean the map and get all the data points (yeah, I know) but I realized I missed some during a few main missions and they're "lost" :( That sucks, I don't recall having this issue in HZD.
 

Poldino

Member
Oct 27, 2020
3,333
Finished the game yesterday, holy shit that last mission was INCREDIBLE, my jaw really dropped a few times while doing it

Loved the main story, my only complaint is that some the last events felt quite rushed, but the ending was very well done and satisfying
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,949
Really?! Comparing Varl's death to the typical "black dude dies in a horror movie" is absolutely ridiculous. I definitely disliked the writing, because the death seemed very sudden and the plot moved on too fast from this event, but saying that this was a typical issue with black characters is silly. Why does it not make sense for the closest friend of Aloy to die? It is supposed to be a normal emotional high point in a story. The skin color has nothing to do with it. And comparing it to the horror genre made the argument even worse, because in those movies (mostly American movies btw), the black character gets no development and is always the first to die for some dumb reason.
Saying that Erend could have died also makes no sense, because we don't have any deep connection to him in this game and him being a drunk and idiot makes his character less likeable. The emotional hit would not have worked at all.
This was the typical "American" perspective on this.
Especially because someone like Zo got also tons of screen time and is a great character, thus not making Varl the "only" black character with depth in Aloys close circle, which Janet states as a fact.
I laughed really hard at her logic, personally. There is a difference between "something is not well written" and "something is written to underline a racist stereotype". I like her, but this was just such a weird take.


First of all I can only assume you're not black, because this is a known issue in fictional narratives. Second of all, let me ask a simple question of why any companion has to die? Varl dies as a tropey attempt to raise the player's emotional stakes before going into the last battle. Thus, you kill the nice guy that everyone loves. So if you're sole reason to kill a character is to cheaply raise the emotional stakes in an already end-of-the-world plot, then maybe don't? Mass Effect 2 is one of the GOAT games (and a game HFW borrows heavily from) and it doesn't resort to cheaply killing off a crew member to raise the stakes that's out of your control. If ME2 was going to do the same thing, they'd kill off Joker before you assault the Collector Base. But it doesn't because such narrative tactics aren't needed.

Continuing, if they were adamant about killing a companion then why have it be Varl? Once you know that Varl is marked for death you can look back and see he was setup as the character to be killed. But they could have easily done this with any other character, it's not like Varl was some super fan favorite from the first game. He was a minor character, Erend had more screen time than him. Thus, it very easily could've been Erend that was made to be this nice guy that tried to keep everyone together that's impaled in front of you. Instead they foolishly chose Varl to die for the tropey reason outlined above.

But to get to the most important point, narratives do not exist in a vacuum. You cannot divorce a narrative from the real world and the implications they arouse. There's a reason Detroit: Become Human is mocked with its whole "I Have A Dream" bullshit with its androids. You can't just tell a story about oppressed androids, one of whom is black and can quote MLK and not have people draw comparisons to the civil rights movement and how stupidly your metaphor doesn't work. Similarly, you can't just create a black character in a narrative and then go, "I don't see race" as you proceed to write their story which somehow manages to fall into the same racial tropes as most narratives.

"The black guy dies," is a staple of not just horror fiction, but fiction in general. And when there are precious few leading black roles in Hollywood and even less in games, killing the black guy carries even more weight. You don't just get to go, "this is a fictional world where racism is abolished." That's great, we don't live in that world. This is the real world where racism exists and the black character dies 95% of the time in a fictional narrative while actually being cast maybe 5% of the time to appear in any narrative. So yes, it is a major concern that they should have thought about before deciding to make Varl the guy we want you to love just so we can kill him.

There's a reason Naughty Dog has similarly caught shit for their treatment of black characters. All of whom have died violent deaths, except for Nadine in UC who has their own problem of being voiced by a white woman. Now dumbass try and excuse those deaths as "the world of TLOU is just violent," but when every black character dies a super violent death, well we've got an issue.

I suggest you perhaps actually listen to the POC voices talking about this subject instead of having a knee jerk reaction to dismiss it and call it "dumb." If every POC has the same reaction, and you a non-POC keep saying it's fine. Well, what do you think that says?
 

Deleted member 59

Guest
The next mission is one of the best in the game so I would advise you to push through at least that far. The one after that is also a really good one.

Ok i carried on, part way through the next mission but go distracted by a side mission on the way which had you fighting a strong group of machines, turning off lures and basically finding out where the Zenith base is. Damn, squaring off against a battle damaged Thunderjaw, skyrdrifter and Tremortusk was a great experience, somehow managed to survive!
 

B.O.O.M.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,756
Side quests continue to impress me. Did another one that started off bog standard then chained into some unique activities and an experience.
 

MrTomato

Member
Jan 20, 2022
2,935
User Banned (1 Month): Dismissing concerns of negative Black representation across multiple posts, tone policing/talking down to Black members regarding the issue, account in junior phase. Being a POC is not the same as being Black.
First of all I can only assume you're not black, because this is a known issue in fictional narratives. Second of all, let me ask a simple question of why any companion has to die? Varl dies as a tropey attempt to raise the player's emotional stakes before going into the last battle. Thus, you kill the nice guy that everyone loves. So if you're sole reason to kill a character is to cheaply raise the emotional stakes in an already end-of-the-world plot, then maybe don't? Mass Effect 2 is one of the GOAT games (and a game HFW borrows heavily from) and it doesn't resort to cheaply killing off a crew member to raise the stakes that's out of your control. If ME2 was going to do the same thing, they'd kill off Joker before you assault the Collector Base. But it doesn't because such narrative tactics aren't needed.
First of all, this is going to be really awkward for you. I AM a POC. Mixed, to be exact. So I don't need to listen to other POC to validate or invalidate my opinion. Especially not in this case.
- You can criticize the plot point, which I do and did not like, but it has nothing to do with the skin color. It is just not well executed. Not even the death scene is that well done, but introducing TIlda and the most interesting story point 2 minutes later just ruins any possible emotional response.
Raising the emotional stakes is fine, because that is a VERY important theme for Aloy, who keeps on pushing people away. It just wasn't well executed.
Shepard's emotional state was never a big theme in the story, so that comparison is not the best.
Continuing, if they were adamant about killing a companion then why have it be Varl? Once you know that Varl is marked for death you can look back and see he was setup as the character to be killed. But they could have easily done this with any other character, it's not like Varl was some super fan favorite from the first game. He was a minor character, Erend had more screen time than him. Thus, it very easily could've been Erend that was made to be this nice guy that tried to keep everyone together that's impaled in front of you. Instead they foolishly chose Varl to die for the tropey reason outlined above.
Erend definitely does NOT have more screen time in HFW. In fact, he has probably the least screen time in this game (other than Sylens). You basically meet him drunk in the beginning, he is a very small part of the mission to rescue Beta and then he stays in the base for the last third of the game. He is almost nonexistent in this game (which is very weird imo).
Varl is used a lot more. The whole intro mission, the first battle when entering the west, the first cauldron and the whole arc with Zo and then his last mission.
EVERY character that dies in a story is set up early on. That's called writing. Whether it's in Game of Thrones, Sopranos, Red Dead Redemption or TLoU. You ALWAYS set up characters for actions later in the story.
Why Varl? Because he is obviously the closest to Aloy. Who else would elicit an emotional response?
Rost is already dead. Erend is drunk and annoyed without any really personality or goal. Just like in the first game. Zo is new and hasn't been established enough at that point. Sylens is somewhere behind-the-scenes and more of a bad guy. So Varl is the only logical choice - a man of honor who always supports Aloy (even when she pushes him away), the person most curious about the old world and motivated to learn by himself.
But to get to the most important point, narratives do not exist in a vacuum. You cannot divorce a narrative from the real world and the implications they arouse. There's a reason Detroit: Become Human is mocked with its whole "I Have A Dream" bullshit with its androids. You can't just tell a story about oppressed androids, one of whom is black and can quote MLK and not have people draw comparisons to the civil rights movement and how stupidly your metaphor doesn't work. Similarly, you can't just create a black character in a narrative and then go, "I don't see race" as you proceed to write their story which somehow manages to fall into the same racial tropes as most narratives.
Narrative does not exist in vacuum? First of all, this is a EUROPEAN game with those sensibilities. Janet judges it from the AMERICAN social vacuum, which does a disservice to the developers. Not everything resolves around the social issues and treatment of minorities in the US my friend.

And a comparison to Detroid: Become Human is ridiculous. That terribly written game is set in a not so distant future and has a clear goal of focusing on modern social issues and making some (half-assed and shallow commentary). All those terrible analogies about slavery, holocaust, MLK and other things should be criticized because it focuses on modern themes and wants to be a smart criticism of many societal issues...but miserably fails. So yes, you need to be aware about possible issues in writing about modern society, when those are your setting and main themes.

That's completely different from this case. You can write a black person like Varl, who has obvious motivations and is well fleshed-out and then let him die. A black person does not mean "black-american" and does not represent how black people are killed in American movies, shows or whatever. There are plenty of other black communities around the world that are represented differently. But I've noticed plenty of time that most American media is incapable to see anything outside their own country.
"The black guy dies," is a staple of not just horror fiction, but fiction in general. And when there are precious few leading black roles in Hollywood and even less in games, killing the black guy carries even more weight. You don't just get to go, "this is a fictional world where racism is abolished." That's great, we don't live in that world. This is the real world where racism exists and the black character dies 95% of the time in a fictional narrative while actually being cast maybe 5% of the time to appear in any narrative. So yes, it is a major concern that they should have thought about before deciding to make Varl the guy we want you to love just so we can kill him.
You could argue that not enough black protagonists exist in video games, which would definitely be true. I mean...damn... the only black protagonist that comes to mind is Colt from Deathloop...just shows you how much work still has to be done for African representation !
But criticizing a game and even saying that there is underlying racism by the developers because a great black character, which most people probably really enjoyed, gets killed is just silly. Especially when there are still other well written black characters in the game. I want stronger representation of black characters in my games (and media in general), but I won't stand for criticizing this. Black characters can die as long as they are still well written characters and respected. This was the case here.
The overall writing wasn't great (but that's an issue I have with every emotional arc in this game), but that has nothing to do with the skin color. By that logic, no other well written black character in any game should ever die again...! Sounds silly, doesn't it?
Would I have liked for someone useless like Erend to die instead of Varl, who I really enjoyed? 100%. But I am not going to insinuate that the writers/developers at Guerilla Games want to serve some racist stereotypes...
There's a reason Naughty Dog has similarly caught shit for their treatment of black characters. All of whom have died violent deaths, except for Nadine in UC who has their own problem of being voiced by a white woman. Now dumbass try and excuse those deaths as "the world of TLOU is just violent," but when every black character dies a super violent death, well we've got an issue.

I suggest you perhaps actually listen to the POC voices talking about this subject instead of having a knee jerk reaction to dismiss it and call it "dumb." If every POC has the same reaction, and you a non-POC keep saying it's fine. Well, what do you think that says?
And when did ND get criticized for killing black characters? In TLOU, where ever character dies a gruesome death?! The only thing I remember having an issue with was Isaac's character. He was very underdeveloped and killed off too easily. Probably the closest thing to tropey black character dying without any screentime.
There was the big problem with Nadine, which was 100% correct and a terrible decision by Druckmann. Essentially black facing the character. Was there another issue I am not aware of?

And I "suggest" you better be a little more respectful and think about what you write, instead of calling others "dumbasses". I will report you next time you try to be disrespectful. I don't mind disagreeing, but no need to call other dumbasses or anything else. Maybe you should also entertain the idea, that not every POC around the world shares the same ideas or has the same issues with how they are represented...because not everything revolves around the US?! Other than that, You, Janet and Bless are the only people who have had an issue with Varl's death from a racial standpoint.
 

bnx

Member
Mar 18, 2018
207
Man that last legendary challenge in the arena was a pain lol. It is BS that Aloy takes damage while getting up. Either she should be invincible while rising or let her get up faster.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,454
finally up to the part of the game where i'm on the coastline / SF, and i'm just baffled that they kept all this stuff until like 20-30 hours into the game.

i like a lot of this game, but there's a stubborn streak to the larger layout that's so strange. i mean on paper i like games that are a little resistant to the "just give them what they want all the time"
ethos, but this game is like 90% "just eat your vegetables".
 

ChrisP8Three

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,006
Leeds
So i'm very behind as in, i just yesterday finsihed the main story........of Zero Dawn and i'm not on the DLC. My copy of Forbidden West turns up in an hour and i cannot wait to continue Aloy's Journey!

I have to say though i am really annoyed by Ted Farro for the main reason and omega protocol in HZD, enthralled, invested etc but really i hate this guy and humanity for what went on, so my question.....am i going to be as more pissed and wanting a third game by the end?
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,949

First off, you gotta learn how to format quotes using spoiler tags.

Now, let me go through your points.

First, I didn't say Erend has more screen time in HFW, I said he had more screen time in HZD. As such, there was no reason he could not have been written for the role of Varl in HFW. The point being that Varl didn't start the story as some loveable fan favorite, he was a minor character in HZD that was written in HFW to be the person you love so we can kill them.

Narrative does not exist in vacuum? First of all, this is a EUROPEAN game with those sensibilities. Janet judges it from the AMERICAN social vacuum, which does a disservice to the developers. Not everything resolves around the social issues and treatment of minorities in the US my friend.

And a comparison to Detroid: Become Human is ridiculous. That terribly written game is set in a not so distant future and has a clear goal of focusing on modern social issues and making some (half-assed and shallow commentary). All those terrible analogies about slavery, holocaust, MLK and other things should be criticized because it focuses on modern themes and wants to be a smart criticism of many societal issues...but miserably fails. So yes, you need to be aware about possible issues in writing about modern society, when those are your setting and main themes.

That's completely different from this case. You can write a black person like Varl, who has obvious motivations and is well fleshed-out and then let him die. A black person does not mean "black-american" and does not represent how black people are killed in American movies, shows or whatever. There are plenty of other black communities around the world that are represented differently. But I've noticed plenty of time that most American media is incapable to see anything outside their own country.

Now this is just plain stupid. FIRST, this is not a EUROPEAN game. It may be made in Europe. But the game is set in America, the developers are a multinational team of developers including Americans, and it marketed towards an American audience. I see ZERO attempts at making a European game or injecting European culture into the game. This is not The Witcher 3. Shit, by that logic Detroit is a European game as the developers are European, REGARDLESS, what the fuck does being a European game have to do with its treatment of black people? Do you think racism doesn't exist in Europe? You think black people have massive roles in European media and aren't killed off? You think European media in general treats black people fairly? No? Then what the fuck are you talking about?

Janet's view isn't an AMERICAN social vacuum, it is a world view. Racism is a problem across the globe and black people are treated like shit all around the globe. I don't know what fantasy land you're living in where black people are represented fairly in media outside of African and Caribbean island nations. And just because Varl is "well-written" and has death has "purpose" doesn't divorce it from its social context nor mean it is necessary. Here's a thought examination, why doesn't Aloy get raped in this narrative? Or even better, why doesn't Ellie get raped in TLOU2? You can create a very powerful and well written plot point where the characters get raped and make it completely work within their narrative. This is especially true with TLOU2 where the world is a very dark and violent world, so the lack of rape seems almost weird. We can watch a man get beaten to death with a pipe and a pregnant woman stabbed to death, but rape is too far?

So why doesn't it happen? Maybe because, again, you cannot divorce a story from the real world. And women getting raped in a fictional story is a tired and sexist trope to the point it too has become a joke alongside "the black guy always dies." ND and GG are at least smart enough to know that their lead female protagonist getting raped is probably not the best idea, regardless of how well it can be written. Again, this shows it's not a writing problem but a social context awareness. The fact that they do not extend that same awareness to how they portray POC is an issue.

And when did ND get criticized for killing black characters? In TLOU, where ever character dies a gruesome death?! The only thing I remember having an issue with was Isaac's character. He was very underdeveloped and killed off too easily. Probably the closest thing to tropey black character dying without any screentime.
There was the big problem with Nadine, which was 100% correct and a terrible decision by Druckmann. Essentially black facing the character. Was there another issue I am not aware of?

And I "suggest" you better be a little more respectful and think about what you write, instead of calling others "dumbasses". I will report you next time you try to be disrespectful. I don't mind disagreeing, but no need to call other dumbasses or anything else. Maybe you should also entertain the idea, that not every POC around the world shares the same ideas or has the same issues with how they are represented...because not everything revolves around the US?! Other than that, You, Janet and Bless are the only people who have had an issue with Varl's death from a racial standpoint.

You can look up for yourself the ND issue, here's a good start:
www.resetera.com

Naughty Dog's Anti-Blackness (TLOU2 Spoilers)

Months ago, I had a single thought which I spoke of half-jokingly. And I really hoped it wouldn’t be true this time around. Oh my sweet summer child, it was all of them Now I’m positive I wasn’t the only Black person who had this thought in the back of their mind before they started the...

Clearly ND themselves recognized the issue since they hired one of the main critics on this point as a writer:
www.resetera.com

Zaire Lanier: And She was Less Than a Dog [On Naughty Dog's Treatment of Black People in The Last of Us] (UPDATE: Zaire Lanier hired as writer at ND!) Spoiler - Sony

The topic has been discussed before here on Era, & I'm glad that Naughty Dog's anti-Blackness is being covered more often. And even then, this is a great article that's worth the read. Check the link below for the rest of the article. Source: Medium

Oh, and please report me if you want. I don't give a fuck. I'm sure the mods would love to laugh at your "report." You keep trying to frame this as an AMERICAN problem which is dumb as already explained. This ain't an American issue. Racism isn't an American problem. If you don't see that then you are a dumbass.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,339
Continuing, if they were adamant about killing a companion then why have it be Varl? Once you know that Varl is marked for death you can look back and see he was setup as the character to be killed. But they could have easily done this with any other character, it's not like Varl was some super fan favorite from the first game. He was a minor character, Erend had more screen time than him. Thus, it very easily could've been Erend that was made to be this nice guy that tried to keep everyone together that's impaled in front of you. Instead they foolishly chose Varl to die for the tropey reason outlined above.

You're severely underselling how popular Varl was in the original. He was by far the most commonly picked male companion for Aloy to end up with should she get into a relationship. And you don't get something like that with fans when it comes to the main character of a piece of work unless they're very well liked. Erend may have had more screen time, but he was nowhere near as well liked. And any time you're going to kill a character for impact, they have to be well liked or else it lands flat.
 

MrTomato

Member
Jan 20, 2022
2,935
First off, you gotta learn how to format quotes using spoiler tags.

Now, let me go through your points.

First, I didn't say Erend has more screen time in HFW, I said he had more screen time in HZD. As such, there was no reason he could not have been written for the role of Varl in HFW. The point being that Varl didn't start the story as some loveable fan favorite, he was a minor character in HZD that was written in HFW to be the person you love so we can kill them.



Now this is just plain stupid. FIRST, this is not a EUROPEAN game. It may be made in Europe. But the game is set in America, the developers are a multinational team of developers including Americans, and it marketed towards an American audience. I see ZERO attempts at making a European game or injecting European culture into the game. This is not The Witcher 3. Shit, by that logic Detroit is a European game as the developers are European, REGARDLESS, what the fuck does being a European game have to do with its treatment of black people? Do you think racism doesn't exist in Europe? You think black people have massive roles in European media and aren't killed off? You think European media in general treats black people fairly? No? Then what the fuck are you talking about?

Janet's view isn't an AMERICAN social vacuum, it is a world view. Racism is a problem across the globe and black people are treated like shit all around the globe. I don't know what fantasy land you're living in where black people are represented fairly in media outside of African and Caribbean island nations. And just because Varl is "well-written" and has death has "purpose" doesn't divorce it from its social context nor mean it is necessary. Here's a thought examination, why doesn't Aloy get raped in this narrative? Or even better, why doesn't Ellie get raped in TLOU2? You can create a very powerful and well written plot point where the characters get raped and make it completely work within their narrative. This is especially true with TLOU2 where the world is a very dark and violent world, so the lack of rape seems almost weird. We can watch a man get beaten to death with a pipe and a pregnant woman stabbed to death, but rape is too far?

So why doesn't it happen? Maybe because, again, you cannot divorce a story from the real world. And women getting raped in a fictional story is a tired and sexist trope to the point it too has become a joke alongside "the black guy always dies." ND and GG are at least smart enough to know that their lead female protagonist getting raped is probably not the best idea, regardless of how well it can be written. Again, this shows it's not a writing problem but a social context awareness. The fact that they do not extend that same awareness to how they portray POC is an issue.



You can look up for yourself the ND issue, here's a good start:
www.resetera.com

Naughty Dog's Anti-Blackness (TLOU2 Spoilers)

Months ago, I had a single thought which I spoke of half-jokingly. And I really hoped it wouldn’t be true this time around. Oh my sweet summer child, it was all of them Now I’m positive I wasn’t the only Black person who had this thought in the back of their mind before they started the...

Clearly ND themselves recognized the issue since they hired one of the main critics on this point as a writer:
www.resetera.com

Zaire Lanier: And She was Less Than a Dog [On Naughty Dog's Treatment of Black People in The Last of Us] (UPDATE: Zaire Lanier hired as writer at ND!) Spoiler - Sony

The topic has been discussed before here on Era, & I'm glad that Naughty Dog's anti-Blackness is being covered more often. And even then, this is a great article that's worth the read. Check the link below for the rest of the article. Source: Medium

Oh, and please report me if you want. I don't give a fuck. I'm sure the mods would love to laugh at your "report." You keep trying to frame this as an AMERICAN problem which is dumb as already explained. This ain't an American issue. Racism isn't an American problem. If you don't see that then you are a dumbass.

Who said that racism is exclusively American? Racism and hatred exists everywhere. That doesn't mean that the social issues are the same everywhere. There are plenty of black communities in Europe that are not represented in THE SAME WAY as in the US. Racism in the US is NOT the same as racism in many other countries outside "God's chose country of the United States". Especially when the share black-american in the US is so big. Doesn't mean that there aren't similar issues in some context, but it is not the same. The US has much bigger systematical issue than most countries, which is also related to gun laws, history of slavery and other problems.

I suggest you do more research on the topic, instead of acting like a sensitive little kid.



DETROIT: become human - a game that focuses on Detroid, an American city with an American society, culture and their values.

Horizon: - a game that is set in America, but has nothing in common with its culture or other social aspects. You could probably make a closer comparison to the culture of Native Americans or Aborigines than any black or american community. That's the whole point of the game. Prior societies were abolished by themselves, and the tribes are basically the beginning of new societies and cultures throughout the world.



And yes, IT IS A EUROPEAN GAME. European studio with mostly European developers and writers. And the game is NOT MADE for AMERICAN audiences, when the biggest Playstation audience is in Europe, not the US. And THAT'S a BIG difference. If you don't understand the difference in cultures between many EU countries and the US, then I don't know what to tell you. Racism (especially towards black-americans) is a lot more ingrained in American culture and how everything is perceived. Europeans have a huge variety of much older cultures than anything in the US (with their own individual issues), but the racial issues can be extremely varied and cannot be easily compared to the US.

From my own experience in living in the US for a couple of years and then moving back to my home country: the perception is very different. It was a lot more aggressive in the US.





I have no idea what that "rape" analogy has to do with it, because rape is definitely not as common "trope" of a trope as "black guy dies in the horror movie". The male fantasy of being a superior being and women being submissive is though, which could also be considered rape depending on how you define the term. The classical "James Bond" issue as some like to call it. But actual rape, how you describe it for Ellie or Aloy is not as common in Europe as you might think.

And I don't really see how that has to do with TLOU2. Is there any context in which raping her would make sense or fit the story when she becomes a killing machine? It was already insinuated effectively in TLOU1, so what's the point for part 2? "Shock value"?

How would that fit the context of Horizon, a world that isn't nearly as brutal or inhumane as TLOU? I see how you are trying to force a comparison that does not work at all.
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
105,642
First of all, this is going to be really awkward for you. I AM a POC. Mixed, to be exact. So I don't need to listen to other POC to validate or invalidate my opinion. Especially not in this case.
- You can criticize the plot point, which I do and did not like, but it has nothing to do with the skin color. It is just not well executed. Not even the death scene is that well done, but introducing TIlda and the most interesting story point 2 minutes later just ruins any possible emotional response.
Raising the emotional stakes is fine, because that is a VERY important theme for Aloy, who keeps on pushing people away. It just wasn't well executed.
Shepard's emotional state was never a big theme in the story, so that comparison is not the best.

Erend definitely does NOT have more screen time in HFW. In fact, he has probably the least screen time in this game (other than Sylens). You basically meet him drunk in the beginning, he is a very small part of the mission to rescue Beta and then he stays in the base for the last third of the game. He is almost nonexistent in this game (which is very weird imo).
Varl is used a lot more. The whole intro mission, the first battle when entering the west, the first cauldron and the whole arc with Zo and then his last mission.
EVERY character that dies in a story is set up early on. That's called writing. Whether it's in Game of Thrones, Sopranos, Red Dead Redemption or TLoU. You ALWAYS set up characters for actions later in the story.
Why Varl? Because he is obviously the closest to Aloy. Who else would elicit an emotional response?
Rost is already dead. Erend is drunk and annoyed without any really personality or goal. Just like in the first game. Zo is new and hasn't been established enough at that point. Sylens is somewhere behind-the-scenes and more of a bad guy. So Varl is the only logical choice - a man of honor who always supports Aloy (even when she pushes him away), the person most curious about the old world and motivated to learn by himself.

Narrative does not exist in vacuum? First of all, this is a EUROPEAN game with those sensibilities. Janet judges it from the AMERICAN social vacuum, which does a disservice to the developers. Not everything resolves around the social issues and treatment of minorities in the US my friend.

And a comparison to Detroid: Become Human is ridiculous. That terribly written game is set in a not so distant future and has a clear goal of focusing on modern social issues and making some (half-assed and shallow commentary). All those terrible analogies about slavery, holocaust, MLK and other things should be criticized because it focuses on modern themes and wants to be a smart criticism of many societal issues...but miserably fails. So yes, you need to be aware about possible issues in writing about modern society, when those are your setting and main themes.

That's completely different from this case. You can write a black person like Varl, who has obvious motivations and is well fleshed-out and then let him die. A black person does not mean "black-american" and does not represent how black people are killed in American movies, shows or whatever. There are plenty of other black communities around the world that are represented differently. But I've noticed plenty of time that most American media is incapable to see anything outside their own country.

You could argue that not enough black protagonists exist in video games, which would definitely be true. I mean...damn... the only black protagonist that comes to mind is Colt from Deathloop...just shows you how much work still has to be done for African representation !
But criticizing a game and even saying that there is underlying racism by the developers because a great black character, which most people probably really enjoyed, gets killed is just silly. Especially when there are still other well written black characters in the game. I want stronger representation of black characters in my games (and media in general), but I won't stand for criticizing this. Black characters can die as long as they are still well written characters and respected. This was the case here.
The overall writing wasn't great (but that's an issue I have with every emotional arc in this game), but that has nothing to do with the skin color. By that logic, no other well written black character in any game should ever die again...! Sounds silly, doesn't it?
Would I have liked for someone useless like Erend to die instead of Varl, who I really enjoyed? 100%. But I am not going to insinuate that the writers/developers at Guerilla Games want to serve some racist stereotypes...
And when did ND get criticized for killing black characters? In TLOU, where ever character dies a gruesome death?! The only thing I remember having an issue with was Isaac's character. He was very underdeveloped and killed off too easily. Probably the closest thing to tropey black character dying without any screentime.
There was the big problem with Nadine, which was 100% correct and a terrible decision by Druckmann. Essentially black facing the character. Was there another issue I am not aware of?

And I "suggest" you better be a little more respectful and think about what you write, instead of calling others "dumbasses". I will report you next time you try to be disrespectful. I don't mind disagreeing, but no need to call other dumbasses or anything else. Maybe you should also entertain the idea, that not every POC around the world shares the same ideas or has the same issues with how they are represented...because not everything revolves around the US?! Other than that, You, Janet and Bless are the only people who have had an issue with Varl's death from a racial standpoint.

I also had a big issue with them killing Varl *shrugs
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,949
Who said that racism is exclusively American? Racism and hatred exists everywhere. That doesn't mean that the social issues are the same everywhere. There are plenty of black communities in Europe that are not represented in THE SAME WAY as in the US. Racism in the US is NOT the same as racism in many other countries outside "God's chose country of the United States". Especially when the share black-american in the US is so big. Doesn't mean that there aren't similar issues in some context, but it is not the same. The US has much bigger systematical issue than most countries, which is also related to gun laws, history of slavery and other problems.

I suggest you do more research on the topic, instead of acting like a sensitive little kid.



DETROIT: become human - a game that focuses on Detroid, an American city with an American society, culture and their values.

Horizon: - a game that is set in America, but has nothing in common with its culture or other social aspects. You could probably make a closer comparison to the culture of Native Americans or Aborigines than any black or american community. That's the whole point of the game. Prior societies were abolished by themselves, and the tribes are basically the beginning of new societies and cultures throughout the world.



And yes, IT IS A EUROPEAN GAME. European studio with mostly European developers and writers. And the game is NOT MADE for AMERICAN audiences, when the biggest Playstation audience is in Europe, not the US. And THAT'S a BIG difference. If you don't understand the difference in cultures between many EU countries and the US, then I don't know what to tell you. Racism (especially towards black-americans) is a lot more ingrained in American culture and how everything is perceived. Europeans have a huge variety of much older cultures than anything in the US (with their own individual issues), but the racial issues can be extremely varied and cannot be easily compared to the US.

From my own experience in living in the US for a couple of years and then moving back to my home country: the perception is very different. It was a lot more aggressive in the US.





I have no idea what that "rape" analogy has to do with it, because rape is definitely not as common "trope" of a trope as "black guy dies in the horror movie". The male fantasy of being a superior being and women being submissive is though, which could also be considered rape depending on how you define the term. The classical "James Bond" issue as some like to call it. But actual rape, how you describe it for Ellie or Aloy is not as common in Europe as you might think.

And I don't really see how that has to do with TLOU2. Is there any context in which raping her would make sense or fit the story when she becomes a killing machine? It was already insinuated effectively in TLOU1, so what's the point for part 2? "Shock value"?

How would that fit the context of Horizon, a world that isn't nearly as brutal or inhumane as TLOU? I see how you are trying to force a comparison that does not work at all.

1. You're continue to act as though Europe has some sort of different racism than in American. You sound like a clown when you say this. Stop.

2. It is not a EUROPEAN game when it lacks any and all attempts to inject European culture. The same way Detroit is not a EUROPEAN game. Please point to anything in Horizon that marks it as EUROPEAN beyond the fact that GG is located in Europe. I'll wait.

3.
The trope is not "black guy dies in horror movie," it's "black guy dies in move." The fact that you don't even know the correct trope and try to limit it to the small genre of horror films tells me you don't understand the core issue. In horror films the cliché gets the added bit of them always being the "first" to go. But in film as a whole, if a character is dying in the film and a black person is in it, chances are they are dying.

4. Yes, what is the point of rape? "Shock value?" Similarly, what is the point of killing a likeable character? Shock value?

5. Maybe take them European sensibilities and learn to listen what others say saying about racial issues.
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
Side quests continue to impress me. Did another one that started off bog standard then chained into some unique activities and an experience.

I ran into an npc last night outside of a town that was just hanging out somewhere, without an exclamation bubble over their head. I hit "talk to them" and they proceeded to have a 90-second conversation with Aloy which referenced and followed up from the end of a minor sidequest. It's cool that they worked stuff like this into the experience of this game.
 

MrTomato

Member
Jan 20, 2022
2,935
1. You're continue to act as though Europe has some sort of different racism than in American. You sound like a clown when you say this. Stop.

2. It is not a EUROPEAN game when it lacks any and all attempts to inject European culture. The same way Detroit is not a EUROPEAN game. Please point to anything in Horizon that marks it as EUROPEAN beyond the fact that GG is located in Europe. I'll wait.

3.
The trope is not "black guy dies in horror movie," it's "black guy dies in move." The fact that you don't even know the correct trope and try to limit it to the small genre of horror films tells me you don't understand the core issue. In horror films the cliché gets the added bit of them always being the "first" to go. But in film as a whole, if a character is dying in the film and a black person is in it, chances are they are dying.

4. Yes, what is the point of rape? "Shock value?" Similarly, what is the point of killing a likeable character? Shock value?

5. Maybe take them European sensibilities and learn to listen what others say saying about racial issues.

This will be the last response. If you want to continue this discussion in private, I don't mind, but it will probably end in "agree to disagree"

1. Then you don't understand my point. It's not represented the same in every place. Racism has many faces. It's not about different racism, but the very different ways it is shown and different amount of racism towards different minorities. The way racism is shown and enforced in the US is not automatically the way it is done in other countries. Thinking so shows a clear lack of understanding of "systematic racism" from your side.
This has nothing do to with "sounding like a clown", but actually understanding that there ARE differences in HOW it is perceived and enforced. You clearly have no idea about European cultures and the different issues concerning racism, rights movements and such. Inform yourself instead of just calling others clowns. Or just talk about the issues in the US.

2. How are you still not understanding it AFTER I clearly explained it. You don't need to inject European culture for a game to be European. The culture is engrained in the way the developers create their games, stories and ways of thinking. Different mindsets, cultural differences and influences. How is that so hard to understand?
Example (to make it as obvious as possible to you): If I ask an American white and black man/woman to write a short story about their life experiences and then ask European white and black man/woman to do the same, you will get vastly different experiences. Because different cultures influence your personal experience. I can speak for myself after spending time in the US, that my experience as a mixed black man is very different from the experiences of the black American friends I have spent time with.

3. Then listen to Janet's argument again. She specifically mentions the trope of the "black guy in a horror movie". She says it multiple times if I remember correctly.

4. There is a HUGE difference in the shock value by rape or the death of a beloved side character. One is mostly just for shock and the sake of it, while the other is always about the other characters and their motivations, as well as advancing the plot. Character deaths are used in almost every story. It is a the base of fictional storytelling. Started out with the "Master/Sensei" character dying to motivate the protagonists and then got changed into various other forms. It's definitely clichee but works very well, if it's well written or executed.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,949
1. Then you don't understand my point. It's not represented the same in every place. Racism has many faces. It's not about different racism, but the very different ways it is shown and different amount of racism towards different minorities. The way racism is shown and enforced in the US is not automatically the way it is done in other countries. Thinking so shows a clear lack of understanding of "systematic racism" from your side.
This has nothing do to with "sounding like a clown", but actually understanding that there ARE differences in HOW it is perceived and enforced. You clearly have no idea about European cultures and the different issues concerning racism, rights movements and such. Inform yourself instead of just calling others clowns. Or just talk about the issues in the US.

Please educate me on the unique European racism including its expression, enforcement, and perception. I'm serious, I'll wait.
 

B.O.O.M.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,756
I ran into an npc last night outside of a town that was just hanging out somewhere, without an exclamation bubble over their head. I hit "talk to them" and they proceeded to have a 90-second conversation with Aloy which referenced and followed up from the end of a minor sidequest. It's cool that they worked stuff like this into the experience of this game.

oh for sure. I love how you run into people that were part of past quests around the world and you can have a nice convo with them. Minor but rewarding experience.
 

Thera

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
12,876
France
The last game I platinumed was Zero Dawn at least intentionally (I don't give a shit about trophies) and this will be the next for sure. Absolutely love these games and can't wait for three.

That said I'm still fairly early in game (just got to plainsong and did the story mission there) but I definitely agree with some of the comments on weapons and different ammo types etc. I like that the game gives you multiple ways to go about your murdering of robots but sometimes more is not always better.
I am enjoying this game a lot but 100% agree about weapons and ammo. I already though there were too much in HZD, it's worst here.
Any I'm back to horizon this weekend and I am surprised that I spent it all going for side stuff. Side missions and such are not exactly works of genius, but a huge improvement over the first game. They are interesting and fun enough to be genuinely distracting. I meant to get farther in the main quest but I played for hours and didn't hit a single beat of it.
I dropped HZD because I found the main quest boring and, here I am, doing side missions and enjoying it A LOT.
I just hope at some point, the industry will find something better than relying on any "special vision" for mission.
I do hope they put a lot more work in Aloy's characterization in the next game. She needs a real emotional attachment to other characters and different motives besides "I have to save the world cause I'm the only one who can". The distance and snark were a cool novelty in the first game, but here she just feelt shallow and she's very far from the best characters the industry has to offer.
She's been an outcast all here life and since just a few months, she is a hero, almost a goddess, with people that don't want to reject her on sight.
On contrary, I think she is really well done on that front.
 

MrTomato

Member
Jan 20, 2022
2,935
Please educate me on the unique European racism including its expression, enforcement, and perception. I'm serious, I'll wait.
I think you are perfectly able to spend some time researching those differences, specifically how extreme the US was (and is) at handling those issues. Especially against the black-american community. But to give you a few pointers:
- the role of police: how the US police system actively supported and empowered racism, police brutality and the stereotypes of "blackness" as gangsters, thieves, untrustworthy humans, while also enforcing gun laws and violence.
Police brutality is obviously not an exclusive "American" form of enforcing racism, but it is a lot more extreme and powerful than in any European country.

- The role of religion: Religion (mostly Christian faith) is a lot stronger in the US over the past 100+ years, especially in black communities and how the government instrumentalized religion to keep black communities small and under "control". The influence of religion in Europe dropped a lot faster and stronger, which led to faster changes in outdated (and partially racist/stereotypical views).
There are some really good articles on BBC from a few years ago if I remember correctly and some great documentaries you might find.

- Individual history of many European countries: e.g. Germany becoming extremely cautious due to its extremely racist and awful history.
To also give you an example for obvious modern racism that is getting worse: France, one of the biggest colonial powers of the past, spearheading slavery in many African countries, which lead to very big and diverse black-french communities (probably the biggest black population in Europe). And that country is definitely struggling with "other" cultures influencing the "french culture", even though I would argue that the Arab-french community is facing much bigger racial issues there right now. And it's only getting worse due to extreme right wing movements growing stronger.

I am sure you will find many other things. Many common issues with the US, but also many country-specific problems and differences on how they are addressed
 

BRVR

Member
Mar 9, 2022
3,228
As someone who's been a massive Horizon fanboy ever since HZD in 2017, i definitely feel the main plot wasn't as special as HZD although still good. I just wish the execution of certain things didn't feel too over the top. That being said, everything else about the game is a significant step up. I genuinely believe HFW is easily one of the best open world games ever made, it takes that formula we're familiar with and takes it to a level we didn't think it could reach. Every activity feels fresh and varied. I'm someone who finds it really hard to do a loads of side quests because in most open world games they're mindless filler but in HFW they have so much passion and hand crafting it's mind blowing. I keep getting surprised as i play them, i really don't think Guerilla are getting enough credit with what they've achieved here. I guess people will realise as time goes on.
 

Maxime

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,981
Credits rolling. Loved they journey, hated the destination. I'll let the entire thing sink in, but I am not on board with where the story is going. HZD feels like a rather grounded coming of age story in comparaison.

103 hours, 96.18% completion, 1 Platinum.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
42,949
I think you are perfectly able to spend some time researching those differences, specifically how extreme the US was (and is) at handling those issues. Especially against the black-american community. But to give you a few pointers:
- the role of police: how the US police system actively supported and empowered racism, police brutality and the stereotypes of "blackness" as gangsters, thieves, untrustworthy humans, while also enforcing gun laws and violence.
Police brutality is obviously not an exclusive "American" form of enforcing racism, but it is a lot more extreme and powerful than in any European country.

- The role of religion: Religion (mostly Christian faith) is a lot stronger in the US over the past 100+ years, especially in black communities and how the government instrumentalized religion to keep black communities small and under "control". The influence of religion in Europe dropped a lot faster and stronger, which led to faster changes in outdated (and partially racist/stereotypical views).
There are some really good articles on BBC from a few years ago if I remember correctly and some great documentaries you might find.

- Individual history of many European countries: e.g. Germany becoming extremely cautious due to its extremely racist and awful history.
To also give you an example for obvious modern racism that is getting worse: France, one of the biggest colonial powers of the past, spearheading slavery in many African countries, which lead to very big and diverse black-french communities (probably the biggest black population in Europe). And that country is definitely struggling with "other" cultures influencing the "french culture", even though I would argue that the Arab-french community is facing much bigger racial issues there right now. And it's only getting worse due to extreme right wing movements growing stronger.

I am sure you will find many other things. Many common issues with the US, but also many country-specific problems and differences on how they are addressed

Right...

So, your first point is about police mistreatment which you admit is the same problem outside of America. Do I need to link to you articles about how UK and France's police disproportionality kills black folk? The only minor difference is that the kill rate for police is higher in America due to gun laws (or rather lack there of). Thus your first "difference" isn't a difference at all.

Your next "difference" is about religion which I'm not sure how that plays into Horizon Forbidden West.

And then lastly your just point out that each individual European nation is dealing with their own racism issues. Which...how is that some big difference than America?

Your whole point you keep trying to hammer is that the game is EUROPEAN and injected with EUROPEAN mindset and sensibilities regarding racism which is totally different than the racism in America. Yet so far you can't point to a single drastic difference, especially anything that leads to the writing seen in HFW. By the way, the narrative director for HFW is Ben McGraw, an American. The lead writer was Annie Kitain, an American. The narrative director for HZD (and HFW before he left prior to release), was John Gonzales, also an American. But yes, obviously this was a European written game. 🙄
 

Kaswa101

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,742
Finally finished the main story. Absolutely loved it and the twists and ending were all amazing <3 It's basically everything I wanted for the story and it goes to some crazy place. The "tomb" mission was sooooo good!

Very interested to see where it all goes from here. Certainly a lot to digest from that ending imo :)
 

ThereAre4Lights

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,857
Man that last legendary challenge in the arena was a pain lol. It is BS that Aloy takes damage while getting up. Either she should be invincible while rising or let her get up faster.

You'd think with all the less useful skill point upgrades there are, there'd be at least one for "getting the fuck up faster."

I did the 2nd major quest last night.

Oh boy, I'm teary-eyed at those Las Vegas desert lights. What a wonderful quest. It was so nice to have characters there too and not just people talking on an electronic recorder.
 

Nida

Member
Aug 31, 2019
11,139
Everett, Washington
I'm a bit confused about how overriding and mounts work. I have overridden the first three mountable machines and currently have the Clawstrider. Can I bring it into combat with me, and if so if it gets destroyed do I lose my ability to use a mount until I override another mountable machine?
 

Arta

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,445
I'm a bit confused about how overriding and mounts work. I have overridden the first three mountable machines and currently have the Clawstrider. Can I bring it into combat with me, and if so if it gets destroyed do I lose my ability to use a mount until I override another mountable machine?
Also sometimes overridden machines attack other nearby animals and sometimes they don't. How do you sic your pets unto your enemies? Didn't see anything in the skill tree unless I missed something.
 
Nov 7, 2017
2,978
Also sometimes overridden machines attack other nearby animals and sometimes they don't. How do you sic your pets unto your enemies? Didn't see anything in the skill tree unless I missed something.
Theres a skill that lets you determine passive or aggressive when you override a mount, theres also targeting arrows that let u pick who the mount will attack
 

ThereAre4Lights

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,857
Also sometimes overridden machines attack other nearby animals and sometimes they don't. How do you sic your pets unto your enemies? Didn't see anything in the skill tree unless I missed something.

There is a skill under Machine Master tree to set "Defensive or Offensive." It shows up as option while you override a machine.
 

Zebesian-X

Member
Dec 3, 2018
19,689
Okay so I really liked the first game. I'll PROBABLY really like this one too. But if I do happen to start feeling the sidequest burnout... could I just focus on the main story? How long would that take me?
 

John Rabbit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,091
Okay so I really liked the first game. I'll PROBABLY really like this one too. But if I do happen to start feeling the sidequest burnout... could I just focus on the main story? How long would that take me?
No idea but I'm at about this point and I absolutely adore Zero Dawn. The game is just...so laborious to play a majority of the time. It also really feels like the deeper into the game I get the more bugs/quirks/weirdness I experience.

Also I'm not sure I can tolerate another game in this series that doesn't adjust/fix/address the cultural appropriation. It already wasn't great in the first one but there was a kind of naivete to the whole affair that was...easier to dismiss...as callous as that sounds. But Forbidden West is just...egregious to the point of almost feeling like a caricature. The Tenakth are especially difficult to give a pass to.

Anyway, yes you could probably just focus on the critical path without much issue, although there are a handful of side quests that end up (in a way) feeding back into the main narrative in ways that are more substantive than in the first game. With the way they handle the customizable difficulty you could likely eschew any difficulty issues as a result from not being a certain level/having certain abilities.
 

Salmonax

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,088
I'm a bit confused about how overriding and mounts work. I have overridden the first three mountable machines and currently have the Clawstrider. Can I bring it into combat with me, and if so if it gets destroyed do I lose my ability to use a mount until I override another mountable machine?

You can bring it into battle and specify whether it attacks or defends with the Override Subroutines skill. If it's killed, you do lose the ability to call a mount until you override a new one.