Honestly.....How are we supposed to defeat the cult of Trump when people want to sit out the election in November?

[Tamanon]

It's mainly bluster right now, since the primary is technically still on. Give it time. People will come around to realizing that getting 75% of what they want is better than 0%. Especially once they remember that revolution is really tough within our political system (Senate + Courts being conservative if Trump wins).

Hillary was a more unique situation, in that she already had a pretty heavy negative painting by the world.

 

[TheMadTitan]

Read my posts, I never said Biden was as bad as Trump, but Biden's history is not all sunshine or rainbows either since he did vote for the Iraq war after all while Bernie didn't. Oh, and Obama's administration did some horrible shit in regards to immigration too, Trump isn't an isolated case. Not to mention the drone strikes that happened when Biden was VP. Less of a shit is still SHIT.

Click to shrink...

I read your posts, but you didn't answer my question. We know Biden isn't a good option. We know the 2011-2012 drone strikes were utter bullshit.

My question to you was if you think Biden will be responsible for risk mitigation or would he ramp up in a fashion that Trump did? Would Biden hold back resources in the face of a disaster because someone said something mean about him?

I'm a young black male in a country that's not too fond of young black males. Trump has incited people to violence against minorities; Trump has ignored aggressive police tactics and police brutality that may very well put my life in danger at some point. Trump has inflamed the hatred toward LGBTQ+ individuals, of which several of my best friends fit within those categories.

Biden isn't my choice. Hilary isn't my choice. But it literally makes no sense for me to not go for the avenue of risk mitigation and risk management given that that road would provide me with the sort of shield and stability needed to push for what I want to happen to better this country than to continue going down a road where I can't even consistently argue valid points because I'm worried about a friend of mine getting harassed in the streets because they're non-binary, or having a friend's house get raided by ICE because someone they live with shares a name with someone who isn't a legal citizen and they get hauled off to who the fuck knows where for who the fuck knows how long before everything gets sorted out since no one wanted to believe them because they're Mexican.

Saying "fuck Biden, I'm not going to vote" also means saying fuck you to all of those people who are going to continue be a major target for a President who fashions himself after authoritarians and followers of a cult who use him as their totemic representation of all of the bullshit thought's they've had for 60+ years.

One side, you have to pull yourself out of the swap. The other side, you just need to walk home and take a shower. It literally makes no sense to delay your shower just because there's no one immediately around to give you a ride home.

Not to mention this absolutely ignores down ballots. Those are drastically impacted as well, ditching the top of the ticket dis incentivizes people going out for everything else. And even if it didn't, it makes their jobs harder since the one at the top who calls the shots is largely inflexible.

 

[saenima]

Leftists in America are nothing but hostages of the 'We Can't' Party. Always expected to compromise over and over and over for years, decades, while never getting anything in return but derision and guilt trips.

Leftists have close to 0 in common with a neoliberal serial liar like Biden. Nothing.

And if he's the only chance to beat Trump, like moderates are spouting, then why the hell do you need leftists for? Beat Trump. Go on.

 

[dlauv]

Leftists in America are nothing but hostages of the 'We Can't' Party. Always expected to compromise over and over and over for years, decades, while never getting anything in return but derision and guilt trips.

Click to shrink...

Leftists deserve guilt trips if they're privileged enough to ignore the one, true, only political reality before them for "moral reasons." Throw their morality right back in their face.

 

[Sidewinder]

One interesting point is that if COVID19 is still around, mildly intelligent people will be rightfully hesitant about exposing themselves at voting stations, and conservative idiots will just brazenly go out and endanger themselves and their families.

Sigh.

Click to shrink...

That's a scary thought. Guess you can vote via mail in some states, or is this nonexistant in USA?

 

[Mekanos]

So if Biden wins the general election do leftists get free reign to shit on his bad political decisions as President and hold his feet to the fire or do we have to bite our tongue there too because "hey, at least he isn't Trump?"

 

[Arkanim94]

So if Biden wins the general election do leftists get free reign to shit on his bad political decisions as President and hold his feet to the fire or do we have to bite our tongue there too because "hey, at least he isn't Trump?"

Click to shrink...

And honesty, isn't the idea that hillary lost cause bernie bros didnt vote for her completely bogus?

 

[dlauv]

So if Biden wins the general election do leftists get free reign to shit on his bad political decisions as President and hold his feet to the fire or do we have to bite our tongue there too because "hey, at least he isn't Trump?"

Click to shrink...

This seems like a rhetorical question without a real point. If genuine, I can't imagine that's being asked of by anyone nor what the point of the topic is.

 

[Lost Knight]

I read your posts, but you didn't answer my question. We know Biden isn't a good option. We know the 2011-2012 drone strikes were utter bullshit.

My question to you was if you think Biden will be responsible for risk mitigation or would he ramp up in a fashion that Trump did? Would Biden hold back resources in the face of a disaster because someone said something mean about him?

I'm a young black male in a country that's not too fond of young black males. Trump has incited people to violence against minorities; Trump has ignored aggressive police tactics and police brutality that may very well put my life in danger at some point. Trump has inflamed the hatred toward LGBTQ+ individuals, of which several of my best friends fit within those categories.

Biden isn't my choice. Hilary isn't my choice. But it literally makes no sense for me to not go for the avenue of risk mitigation and risk management given that that road would provide me with the sort of shield and stability needed to push for what I want to happen to better this country than to continue going down a road where I can't even consistently argue valid points because I'm worried about a friend of mine getting harassed in the streets because they're non-binary, or having a friend's house get raided by ICE because someone they live with shares a name with someone who isn't a legal citizen and they get hauled off to who the fuck knows where for who the fuck knows how long before everything gets sorted out since no one wanted to believe them because they're Mexican.

Saying "fuck Biden, I'm not going to vote" also means saying fuck you to all of those people who are going to continue be a major target for a President who fashions himself after authoritarians and followers of a cult who use him as their totemic representation of all of the bullshit thought's they've had for 60+ years.

One side, you have to pull yourself out of the swap. The other side, you just need to walk home and take a shower. It literally makes no sense to delay your shower just because there's no one immediately around to give you a ride home.

Not to mention this absolutely ignores down ballots. Those are drastically impacted as well, ditching the top of the ticket dis incentivizes people going out for everything else. And even if it didn't, it makes their jobs harder since the one at the top who calls the shots is largely inflexible.

Click to shrink...

You're a young black male, right? I'm an Arab-American Muslim who got a lot of shit for being that, I get what you mean. However, I'll never compromise my values because I'll be voting for the same system that treats people like shit, we need a deep-rooted change and Biden's indecisiveness might even bring another Republican that is worse than Trump. And don't say it's not gonna happen, people said the same thing about the current president. Got it?

 

[Mekanos]

This seems like a rhetorical question without a real point. If genuine, I can't imagine that's being asked of by anyone nor what the point of the topic is.

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There was a poster in this thread telling leftists to act excited about Biden and go hype him up online.

 

[TheGhost]

Trying to shame people into voting for your candidate of choice has never worked and will never work and people in this thread would do well to remember that, no matter how angry you are at the idea that a Biden nom might reduce turnout from the people who he has failed time and time again.

FWIW I do think people should just hold their nose and vote him to prevent the Supreme Court being packed forever but single issues like that are also very hard to get people around.

Click to shrink...

It's not shaming.....it's using common sense . It's not hyperbolic to say that we are in the worst possible situation or our lifetimes with this virus. We are in unchartered waters and this man is failing us. Anyone.....anyone would have taken this more serious than him. Any Democrat any Republicans any independent. He needs to be removed and his rabid fanbase need their fangs removed.

 

[Masterz1337]

Jesus Christ some of the takes in this thread. You deserve whatever happens to you if you don't vote against Trump in this election. Honestly, I don't care what your expierence is as any member of a minority group in this country is, let it be Black or LGBTQ or an immigrant and where Biden stands on you. People are going to die (and are dying) and will have their lives irrevocably ruined or made worse at best under Trump now and even more severely if he wins again.

Biden doesn't support your causes 100%? Boo fucking hoo.

Guess what, even if he only gets 25% of the way there, 50%, 75% or even 0%, he will be protecting people and less people will be harmed under him than Trump. If you have no empathy for others who's lives are being effected on a day to day basis, you are just as much a sociopath as Trump, if not worse because unlike him you aren't senile or mentally deranged and should be more capable of making decisions. If you claim to believe in the collective good of people, theres only one option in this election.

I get he isn't providing to your needs as fast as you need, but he is the only person who is going to even move the needle in that direction. Stand on the sidelines, it moves in the other direction when Trump wins. Sander's campaign is fucking dead, Democratic voters, most importantly BLACK voters (who apparently need to be told by Bernie supporters what is best for them) said they want Joe Biden. Him winning isn't going to be the victory you want, but it's the only victory you can have this year.

By all means, vote Bernie in the primary and help push the party left. That's what I am going to do when I vote in the primary, and I will advocate for Joe until he wins in November.

 

[Lost Knight]

Jesus Christ some of the takes in this thread. You deserve whatever happens to you if you don't vote against Trump in this election. Honestly, I don't care what your expierence is as any member of a minority group in this country is, let it be Black or LGBTQ or an immigrant and where Biden stands on you. People are going to die (and are dying) and will have their lives irrevocably ruined or made worse at best under Trump now and even more severely if he wins again.

Biden doesn't support your causes 100%? Boo fucking hoo.

Guess what, even if he only gets 25% of the way there, 50%, 75% or even 0%, he will be protecting people and less people will be harmed under him than Trump. If you have no empathy for others who's lives are being effected on a day to day basis, you are just as much a sociopath as Trump, if not worse because unlike him you aren't senile or mentally deranged and should be more capable of making decisions. If you claim to believe in the collective good of people, theres only one option in this election.

I get he isn't providing to your needs as fast as you need, but he is the only person who is going to even move the needle in that direction. Stand on the sidelines, it moves in the other direction when Trump wins. Sander's campaign is fucking dead, Democratic voters, most importantly BLACK voters (who apparently need to be told by Bernie supporters what is best for them) said they want Joe Biden. Him winning isn't going to be the victory you want, but it's the only victory you can have this year.

By all means, vote Bernie in the primary and help push the party left. That's what I am going to do when I vote in the primary, and I will advocate for Joe until he wins in November.

Click to shrink...

It isn't that he isn't going to provide the things we need as fast as we hoped, he will NEVER deliver on them, and if you think people would stop dying if he was voted in you're deluding yourself, Trump is a result of a horrible system that needs to be changed. I'm not gonna vote for someone who isn't gonna help this country get better.

 

[AppleMIX]

It isn't that he isn't going to provide the things we need as fast as we hoped, he will NEVER deliver on them, and if you think people would stop dying if he was voted in you're deluding yourself, Trump is a result of a horrible system that needs to be changed. I'm not gonna vote for someone who isn't gonna help this country get better.

Click to shrink...

You do realize even if you get Bernie in the office. He won't be able to actually pass anything. The senate will be controlled by Republicans.

 

[Schreckweg 5000]

It isn't that he isn't going to provide the things we need as fast as we hoped, he will NEVER deliver on them, and if you think people would stop dying if he was voted in you're deluding yourself, Trump is a result of a horrible system that needs to be changed. I'm not gonna vote for someone who isn't gonna help this country get better.

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In case you wonder what being privileged means

 

[FuzzyWuzzy]

So why do people act like Sanders is being robbed? So far he is losing the primary and if it comes to Biden being the nominee it should be a very easy choice to vote for him instead of trump.

 

[Tamanon]

Honestly, Leftists aren't the problem with beating Trump. There aren't enough of them to meaningfully impact an election. I wouldn't spare a second of thought on convincing non-voters of that variety. Go after the non-voters that are moderate, or liberal.

 

[Xaszatm]

It's not shaming.....it's using common sense . It's not hyperbolic to say that we are in the worst possible situation or our lifetimes with this virus. We are in unchartered waters and this man is failing us. Anyone.....anyone would have taken this more serious than him. Any Democrat any Republicans any independent. He needs to be removed and his rabid fanbase need their fangs removed.

Click to shrink...

Listen do you want to convince people to vote for Biden or do you want to just to browbeat people away from the polls? If you really want to try and convince people to vote for your candidate, and have been told point blank that "telling me he's better than Trump won't work"...why are you using that only strategy? Surely you can do something, anything else?

 

[Exist 2 Inspire]

Leftists in America are nothing but hostages of the 'We Can't' Party. Always expected to compromise over and over and over for years, decades, while never getting anything in return but derision and guilt trips.

Leftists have close to 0 in common with a neoliberal serial liar like Biden. Nothing.

And if he's the only chance to beat Trump, like moderates are spouting, then why the hell do you need leftists for? Beat Trump. Go on.

Click to shrink...

Right on the money.

 

[GreatFenris]

Leftists deserve guilt trips if they're privileged enough to ignore the one, true, only political reality before them for "moral reasons." Throw their morality right back in their face.

Click to shrink...

I think that's because a some of the "Leftists" on ERA and Reddit and otherwise have sort of stopped thinking after "ideals". They do not care about PoC being put through systematic racism, they don't give a damn about LGBTQ people getting harassed, killed or made pariahs because it doesn't fit their narrative of the issue. It's more important to them to talk about student loans, or healthcare than it is to acknowledge that yeah, people are literally dying. Entire huge groups of people are being set up to become at best third-class citizens in their own country but that isn't worth considering.
ANd I think this stems from a lot of the mentality of never having to grow up and realize the world is gray. Sometimes you have to pick the lesser of two evils to make a better world. Sweden's leftist party did a deal wit the conservatives a few months back. The cons and their friends wanted to slap the government because luls...But they couldn't do it on their own. So the Left gave their votes to the Right coalition which meant that the Social/Liberal government had to roll back on massive cuts on unemployment aid and such. So to stop thousands of people getting it worse the Left worked with what amounts to their sworn enemies. Because in real life, sometimes you don't have the luxury of idealism.

 

[Deleted member 8644]

I think that's because a some of the "Leftists" on ERA and Reddit and otherwise have sort of stopped thinking after "ideals". They do not care about PoC being put through systematic racism, they don't give a damn about LGBTQ people getting harassed, killed or made pariahs because it doesn't fit their narrative of the issue. It's more important to them to talk about student loans, or healthcare than it is to acknowledge that yeah, people are literally dying. Entire huge groups of people are being set up to become at best third-class citizens in their own country but that isn't worth considering.
ANd I think this stems from a lot of the mentality of never having to grow up and realize the world is gray. Sometimes you have to pick the lesser of two evils to make a better world. Sweden's leftist party did a deal wit the conservatives a few months back. The cons and their friends wanted to slap the government because luls...But they couldn't do it on their own. So the Left gave their votes to the Right coalition which meant that the Social/Liberal government had to roll back on massive cuts on unemployment aid and such. So to stop thousands of people getting it worse the Left worked with what amounts to their sworn enemies. Because in real life, sometimes you don't have the luxury of idealism.

Click to shrink...

Maybe you should stop assuming that everyone that disagrees with you is privileged or white or male.

 

[Deleted member 2809]

He's about to kill 10% of his base anyway

 

[Heromanz]

I think that's because a some of the "Leftists" on ERA and Reddit and otherwise have sort of stopped thinking after "ideals". They do not care about PoC being put through systematic racism, they don't give a damn about LGBTQ people getting harassed, killed or made pariahs because it doesn't fit their narrative of the issue. It's more important to them to talk about student loans, or healthcare than it is to acknowledge that yeah, people are literally dying. Entire huge groups of people are being set up to become at best third-class citizens in their own country but that isn't worth considering.
ANd I think this stems from a lot of the mentality of never having to grow up and realize the world is gray. Sometimes you have to pick the lesser of two evils to make a better world. Sweden's leftist party did a deal wit the conservatives a few months back. The cons and their friends wanted to slap the government because luls...But they couldn't do it on their own. So the Left gave their votes to the Right coalition which meant that the Social/Liberal government had to roll back on massive cuts on unemployment aid and such. So to stop thousands of people getting it worse the Left worked with what amounts to their sworn enemies. Because in real life, sometimes you don't have the luxury of idealism.

Click to shrink...

But I'm black and a leftist And poor.

 

[Protome]

It's not shaming.....it's using common sense . It's not hyperbolic to say that we are in the worst possible situation or our lifetimes with this virus. We are in unchartered waters and this man is failing us. Anyone.....anyone would have taken this more serious than him. Any Democrat any Republicans any independent. He needs to be removed and his rabid fanbase need their fangs removed.

Click to shrink...

It's wild that you can say "anyone would have taken this more seriously" when Biden's response to this has been "let's hide from the public for long enough that they assume I'm sick too"

 

[Mekanos]

I think that's because a some of the "Leftists" on ERA and Reddit and otherwise have sort of stopped thinking after "ideals". They do not care about PoC being put through systematic racism, they don't give a damn about LGBTQ people getting harassed, killed or made pariahs because it doesn't fit their narrative of the issue. It's more important to them to talk about student loans, or healthcare than it is to acknowledge that yeah, people are literally dying. Entire huge groups of people are being set up to become at best third-class citizens in their own country but that isn't worth considering.
ANd I think this stems from a lot of the mentality of never having to grow up and realize the world is gray. Sometimes you have to pick the lesser of two evils to make a better world. Sweden's leftist party did a deal wit the conservatives a few months back. The cons and their friends wanted to slap the government because luls...But they couldn't do it on their own. So the Left gave their votes to the Right coalition which meant that the Social/Liberal government had to roll back on massive cuts on unemployment aid and such. So to stop thousands of people getting it worse the Left worked with what amounts to their sworn enemies. Because in real life, sometimes you don't have the luxury of idealism.

Click to shrink...

lmao. Very privileged here as an autistic Jewish queer leftist who is watching the rise of Nazism in the modern era.

 

[GreatFenris]

Maybe you should stop assuming that everyone that disagrees with you is privileged or white or male.

Click to shrink...

I assume a majority of the ones spouting what amounts to anti-PoC/LGBTQ sentiments to be entitled and white, yeah. Not necessarily male as we can see from a lot of TERFS.

But I'm black and a leftist And poor.

Click to shrink...

And are you also fine with having Trump for four more years because of ideals? Because that's my point, at times you gave to pick your fights. A lot of the non-US left seems to get this, while just a couple of posts over mine we have someone who refuses to acknowledge that minorities getting their lives f***** even worse is even worth acknowledging.

 

[Lost Knight]

You do realize even if you get Bernie in the office. He won't be able to actually pass anything. The senate will be controlled by Republicans.

Click to shrink...

The point being that he would fight for it, while Biden would do nothing.

 

[GreatFenris]

lmao. Very privileged here as an autistic Jewish queer leftist who is watching the rise of Nazism in the modern era.

Click to shrink...

Are you willing to see others suffer for your ideals? If you are willing to see others suffer because in this case, Sanders wasn't elected. Then yeah, you are part of the problem.
Like Biden would have been my 4th or 5th option if I lived in the US and could vote...But if push came to shove I'd support him because Trump is actively destroying the rights of minorities. He is a fascist and goes clubbing with literal nazis before giving them more power.
That would for me be like voting for Jimmie Åksesson and his Swedish Democrats (alt right party, former nazis in theory...Current nazis in practice) because I didn't like the Social Democrats candidate here in Sweden.

 

[TheGhost]

This seems like a rhetorical question without a real point. If genuine, I can't imagine that's being asked of by anyone nor what the point of the topic is.

Click to shrink...

The point of this thread is to point out that the privledged people who wanted trump gone for years but now won't lift a finger to help because their candidate didn't win are part of the problem. Leave the party if that's the case.

It's wild that you can say "anyone would have taken this more seriously" when Biden's response to this has been "let's hide from the public for long enough that they assume I'm sick too"

Click to shrink...

.......he could die, Bernie could die....you get that right? Why even be out at risk? If I didn't know any better I would expect people to want Biden out there to risk exposure so that way he can die and Bernie could ride in but shit doesn't work that way.

 

[Heromanz]

I assume a majority of the ones spouting what amounts to anti-PoC/LGBTQ sentiments to be entitled and white, yeah. Not necessarily male as we can see from a lot of TERFS.


And are you also fine with having Trump for four more years because of ideals? Because that's my point, at times you gave to pick your fights. A lot of the non-US left seems to get this, while just a couple of posts over mine we have someone who refuses to acknowledge that minorities getting their lives f***** even worse is even worth acknowledging.

Click to shrink...

I'm not fine with anything i abstaining my right to vote. I simply don't believe in voting for a democratic candidate who was the centerpiece of some of the most rasict laws since the death of jim crow. for all the talks about minorities in this place we failed to see that. It is ironic

 

[Ecotic]

It's human nature in a conflict to assume that your opponent has far greater advantages, more options to defeat you, and is self-assured of their impending victory. Meanwhile, you assume that you have every disadvantage.

Look at this from a Republican strategist's perspective, they're facing re-election with a possibly severe recession either going on or recovering from, with a historically unpopular President, and an opponent who polls well. Democrats are in better shape than you think. This is definitely a winnable election, more so than John Kerry or Mitt Romney who faced incumbents and needed to catch every break possible to win.

To address the OP's worry more specifically, the under-35 crowd is more of a bonus in an election. Biden's margin with the over-45 crowd will determine this election.

 

[Lost Knight]

In case you wonder what being privileged means

Click to shrink...

I'm an Arab Muslim, I'm not white, so please address the arguments instead of handwaving it by using "privilege".

 

[Mekanos]

Are you willing to see others suffer for your ideals?

Click to shrink...

This is a false dichotomy you've presented, but to answer your question, I've already said I will vote for Biden if he is the nominee.

But ultimately this seems to constantly come back to the idea that Bernie voters are both 1) electorally irrelevant enough to not win a primary 2) electorally essential enough to win a general. Maybe Biden should start making concessions to the Bernie group if he needs their votes so bad. Or don't and try to win without them if he's got such overwhelming support otherwise.

 

[GreatFenris]

I'm not fine with anything i abstaining my right to vote. I simply don't believe in voting for a democratic candidate who was the centerpiece of some of the most rasict laws since the death of jim crow. for all the talks about minorities in this place we failed to see that. It is irony of the end of the day

Click to shrink...

So you think Biden would do worse than Trump? Yes or no?
Would Biden encourage his legion of fans to bully, harass and injure people because of the colour of their skin, their preference in husband/wife, the gender they feel they were born for?
Would he support even harsher laws that would target those minorities? Would he put children in fucking cages while hollering on Twitter about raping Mexicans and Chinese viruses?
Yeah, Biden ain't exactly perfect or even that good but if it comes down to the two there is a clear choice.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

So if Biden wins the general election do leftists get free reign to shit on his bad political decisions as President and hold his feet to the fire or do we have to bite our tongue there too because "hey, at least he isn't Trump?"

Click to shrink...

Shit on him all you want. It he decides to run again, primary him. The whole point is to move the country to the left where you can. Humans do not like dramatic change. That's just a psychological thing.

It's human nature in a conflict to assume that your opponent has far greater advantages, more options to defeat you, and is self-assured of their impending victory. Meanwhile, you assume that you have every disadvantage.

Look at this from a Republican strategist's perspective, they're facing re-election with a possibly severe recession either going on or recovering from, with a historically unpopular President, and an opponent who polls well. Democrats are in better shape than you think. This is definitely a winnable election, more so than John Kerry or Mitt Romney who faced incumbents and needed to catch every break possible to win.

To address the OP's worry more specifically, the under-35 crowd is more of a bonus in an election. Biden's margin with the over-45 crowd will determine this election.

Click to shrink...

From a Republican strategist's perspective, the key to winning the election is to depress Democratic turnout and increase infighting. They know they can't win if Democrats are united, so you keep seeing them push all these conspiracy theories about Biden and the DNC. The whole point of targeting Biden is to distract from the fact that Trump wants to force people back to work in the middle of a pandemic which will literally kill millions.

 

[Xaszatm]

You know if you can't give someone any other reason to vote for Biden than "He's not Trump" ad nauseum even when they say "This won't work", that honestly says more about your opinion of Biden than anything else. Like really? You can't use any other strategy to get people to vote for Biden other than "He's not Trump"? Is that how low your opinion of Biden is?

 

[Mekanos]

Would he put children in fucking cages

Click to shrink...

This literally happened under the Obama administration, so...

 

[Jac_Solar]

Well, it's hard to get excited to go out and vote for someone when the candidate being propped up by the Democratic establishment is this guy.

Click to shrink...

I don't know anything about this guy (I'm Norwegian. Haven't been paying much attention to this.), but what do you think this proves? To me, it seems like he doesn't want to further undermine the President in these trying times.

 

[Supermanisdead]

What is this imaginary voting bloc that didn't get Bernie the nom, but will definitely lose the election for Biden? You guys are always angry at this mysterious other because you read a few tweets... ain't you tired of the righteous moral grandstanding? It's reached a point now where if you even say "lol Joe Biden" you get accused of FUD and helping get Trump elected. Joe Biden fucking sucks. Just because he doesn't suck as bad as Trump, doesn't make him the great hope.

 

[GreatFenris]

This is a false dichotomy you've presented, but to answer your question, I've already said I will vote for Biden if he is the nominee.

But ultimately this seems to constantly come back to the idea that Bernie voters are both 1) electorally irrelevant enough to not win a primary 2) electorally essential enough to win a general. Maybe Biden should start making concessions to the Bernie group if he needs their votes so bad. Or don't and try to win without them if he's got such overwhelming support otherwise.

Click to shrink...

No, the idea I have is that a minority/small part of Bernies online supporters are actively harmful to the mans campaign because they have the "If I don't get my way...The world can burn!"-mentality of a goddamn super villain. And this "Well I'm voting Biden....But he doesn't get my excitement!!"-bullshit I've seen screams entitlement. This isn't about excitement, this isn't a blockbuster movie. This is a struggle between democracy and the literal return of fascism. Because with four more Trump years, it ain't just the US that will be hosed.

This literally happened under the Obama administration, so...

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I read that. The Obama admin had inhumane conditions that they kept people in for days which is awful, but Trump had people there for far longer. But point to you.

 

[Protome]

.......he could die, Bernie could die....you get that right? Why even be out at risk? If I didn't know any better I would expect people to want Biden out there to risk exposure so that way he can die and Bernie could ride in but shit doesn't work that way.

Click to shrink...

Nobody is saying he should be out shaking hands and kissing babies. It's 2020, there are other methods of communication which Bernie has been using constantly to help raise a bunch of money for charities helping with this crisis. Even Biden eventually did, after being forced to. Admittedly he flubbed his lines, struggled to put a sentence together and overall fucked it up but that's Biden for you.

 

[Arkanim94]

we all remember when Obama became the first POC president with the slogan "not as bad as bush".

and no, I am not calling Obama a radical change in the status quo.

at least with how Trump is mismanaging this crisis the dem should have the election in the bag at this point.

 

[Heromanz]

So you think Biden would do worse than Trump? Yes or no?
Would Biden encourage his legion of fans to bully, harass and injure people because of the colour of their skin, their preference in husband/wife, the gender they feel they were born for?
Would he support even harsher laws that would target those minorities? Would he put children in fucking cages while hollering on Twitter about raping Mexicans and Chinese viruses?
Yeah, Biden ain't exactly perfect or even that good but if it comes down to the two there is a clear choice.

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No to the kids in cages because he already did in the 90s. He was the centerpiece of the crime bill that saw 100,000s of African-American youths locked up both directly and indirectly , some being charged as adults and are still in prison today. I mean you can't get much harsher than the 1990s crime bill . The same man who was picked by Barack Obama because he appeal to those rasict ass Democrats.

 

[Deleted member 8644]

I assume a majority of the ones spouting what amounts to anti-PoC/LGBTQ sentiments to be entitled and white, yeah. Not necessarily male as we can see from a lot of TERFS.


And are you also fine with having Trump for four more years because of ideals? Because that's my point, at times you gave to pick your fights. A lot of the non-US left seems to get this, while just a couple of posts over mine we have someone who refuses to acknowledge that minorities getting their lives f***** even worse is even worth acknowledging.

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Maybe when people are telling you their identity you should stop talking over them and telling them you know what's good for them. Just a thought. People are telling you that your argument about privilege is wrong and you just bulldozer over it because it doesn't fit your worldview.

 

[SmokeMaxX]

What is this imaginary voting bloc that didn't get Bernie the nom, but will definitely lose the election for Biden? You guys are always angry at this mysterious other because you read a few tweets... ain't you tired of the righteous moral grandstanding? It's reached a point now where if you even say "lol Joe Biden" you get accused of FUD and helping get Trump elected. Joe Biden fucking sucks. Just because he doesn't suck as bad as Trump, doesn't make him the great hope.

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This argument doesn't make any sense at all. Trump won by what? ~100,000 votes? There's definitely more than 100,000 people who voted for Bernie. No, that's not enough to win a primary.

 

[Masterz1337]

It isn't that he isn't going to provide the things we need as fast as we hoped, he will NEVER deliver on them, and if you think people would stop dying if he was voted in you're deluding yourself, Trump is a result of a horrible system that needs to be changed. I'm not gonna vote for someone who isn't gonna help this country get better.

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Less people will die, less people will be harmed, more things any left leaning person would want will be accomplished under Biden than Trump. Biden will help this country get better, he will make progress, and carry the baton to the next democrat, let it be AOC or Buttigieg in 2024/2028

 

[Feep]

This literally happened under the Obama administration, so...

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Good job repeating misleading Republican talking points, bro.

 

[Tamanon]

No to the kids in cages because he already did in the 90s. He was the centerpiece of the crime bill that saw 100,000s of African-American youths locked up both directly and indirectly , some being charged as adults and are still in prison today. I mean you can't get much harsher than the 1990s crime bill . The same man who was picked by Barack Obama because he appeal to those rasict ass Democrats.

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I mean, I wouldn't think the crime bill would be disqualifying for a candidate, considering.... y'know.....

 

[SmokeMaxX]

at least with how Trump is mismanaging this crisis the dem should have the election in the bag at this point.

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Funny you say that because people on the right and some on the left are trying to equivolate Trump and Biden.

 

[Mekanos]

No, the idea I have is that a minority/small part of Bernies online supporters are actively harmful to the mans campaign because they have the "If I don't get my way...The world can burn!"-mentality of a goddamn super villain. And this "Well I'm voting Biden....But he doesn't get my excitement!!"-bullshit I've seen screams entitlement. This isn't about excitement, this isn't a blockbuster movie. This is a struggle between democracy and the literal return of fascism. Because with four more Trump years, it ain't just the US that will be hosed.

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lol what? We can't express our exasperation at Biden as a candidate now even if we're voting for him? Do we have to kiss his feet?

If Biden loses it's because Not Trump is an ineffective campaign slogan. Biden has to earn votes, it's his job as a candidate. If there are key demographics he needs to beat Trump, he should be making concessions to them to lock their vote. If there aren't, then it's no problem, right?

Good job repeating misleading Republican talking points, bro.

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That poster asked if kids would be in cages. They were, in fact, in cages in the Obama administration. But I'm sure the administration who bragged about record high deportations would have a VP who actually cares deeply about immigrants.