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Trisc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,485
A while back, I was in the OP's position, arguing with someone who didn't want to vote for Hillary because they said something along the lines of "being forced to choose the lesser evil when the lesser evil is still holding a gun to your head." At the time, I didn't get it. I do now, though.

Put diplomatically, Democratic moderates implicitly understand that many of those to the left of them have to vote for self-preservation. Their votes are taken for granted because they know those to the left and/or those they care about stand to lose more, and any of their desire to improve their condition must necessarily play second fiddle to party financiers and "independent" voters who are all too willing to throw vulnerable populations under the bus because the status quo either benefits them or fails to hurt them at all.

And in a just world, we'd save our tongue lashing for these financiers and independent voters because it's plainly established that they're okay with climate change or children in cages if their taxes aren't raised, or even the party establishment for pushing a candidate that doesn't get enough people excited, but this thread is evidence enough that no lessons were learned in these past four years.
This kind of sentiment is very common among my friends, many of whom are queer (like myself), people of color, homeless (or in financial dire straits), or some combination of the three.

Perhaps the most disappointing thing about the DNC is that they stand to gain something even if Trump wins, given how his tax cuts should benefit a lot of the corporate donors who put money into Democratic politicians' campaigns (and pockets). Faced with the chance to win with a centrist candidate like Bernie or lose to a fascist like Trump, the DNC will pick Trump. They genuinely stand to lose less with him than they would Bernie or Warren. Their constituents don't matter, but the money does.
 

Lost Knight

Member
Mar 17, 2019
944
West Virginia
Biden is terrible, fear mongering over how Trump is terrible won't change my mind. Biden won't stand for anything that I stand for (medicare for all, clearing student debt, ending the wars, etc). How is he any different than a trash Republican? It's dumb that we have gotten used to accepting that bullcrap over the years.
 

finalflame

Product Management
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,538
Biden is terrible, fear mongering over how Trump is terrible won't change my mind. Biden won't stand for anything that I stand for (medicare for all, clearing student debt, ending the wars, etc). How is he any different than a trash Republican? It's dumb that we have gotten used to accepting that bullcrap over the years.
If you don't see how Biden would be better than the bigoted, racist, incompetent sack of shit we have in power than I don't think anyone can help you. What a ridiculous take.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,513
Like I said, fear mongering and guilt tripping isn't enough for me to vote, give me actual and meaningful change to this fucking country.

There's nothing fearmongering about the real and present damage Trump does to the country every single day. This is real life, not a fantasy land where you can just close your eyes and the bad things go away.
 

Lost Knight

Member
Mar 17, 2019
944
West Virginia
There's nothing fearmongering about the real and present damage Trump does to the country every single day. This is real life, not a fantasy land where you can just close your eyes and the bad things go away.

It's fantasy when you think Biden is gonna bring meaningful change to this country. Saying that Biden isn't Trump isn't good enough, we tried that in 2016 and failed don't give "he lost the popular vote" bullcrap because it doesn't matter in the end.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,513
It's fantasy when you think Biden is gonna bring meaningful change to this country. Saying that Biden isn't Trump isn't good enough, we tried that in 2016 and failed don't give "he lost the popular vote" bullcrap because it doesn't matter in the end.

I would rather stop the bleeding then let Trump continue to fuck the country to death for four years because we can't have a revolution right this second. People are dying now.
 

Trisc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,485
If you don't see how Biden would be better than the bigoted, racist, incompetent sack of shot we have in power than I don't think anyone can help you. What a ridiculous take.
It's a Catch-22 and I find it hard to blame people who don't want Biden. He's got a colored history of being King Shit of the Democratic Party, and his recent campaign hasn't done much to quell concerns that he's still the same old asshole. He is better than Trump; that's inarguable. But Trump is so terrible than "I'm not Donald Trump" is the least a candidate has to do to be better (and all of them have done that, even Harris), and even still the DNC put all their cards on Biden instead of getting behind one of the populist candidates whose policies were more than just "I'm not Donald Trump".

I'll fart in Biden's general direction and spit in my hand before I shake his, but I'll vote for him if he wins the nomination (in the meantime, I'm voting Bernie in the primaries). However, I won't blame the people who come from marginalized groups who won't vote for him. They don't owe him that. We had candidates promising universal healthcare, basic income, climate change reform bills, and prison reform. The only candidate who's left of those who's still promising a better America, and not the same America is Bernie.

Also, you can't just go and tell people who say they won't vote for Biden "fuck you, vote for him". That kind of abrasiveness will make people dig their heels in, no matter how misinformed you may think they are. They know, and they're not stupid; they're mad. You have to approach them with the understanding that they don't want Biden any more than they want Trump, and remind them what's at stake without acting like you're about to drive an actual stake into their heart. Gaslighting and coercing people into voting is never going to work; it didn't with Clinton.
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
Pretty much. Any time someone gives me one of these speeches, I'm like-- the fuck d'you want me to do, pal? I'm probably voting for Biden, but I can't see myself doing anything better than that. Let's pretend-- let's just pretend-- that I'm of the opinion Trump is the disease and not the symptom so I'm convinced Biden putting his hand over that Bible will just cause all the cages to spring wide open. Guess what? I can't fucking persuade my other leftist pals that's the case. I can't. I've tried. Does that make them bad people? Who gives a fuck? It's not like declaring them bad people magically hands their vote over to you so you can cast it for them. You're still as fucked as you were before. Either you need them, or you don't, and if you need them either you can persuade them, or you can't. COVID is changing some of the calculus for this, but the question is still authentic on whether people should vote or not.

The "incremental change is better than accelerationism" argument is well understood and near-universally agreed with. It's a good starting point in theory, then, to make a case for Biden. The proof you have to make is that not voting for Biden is a) such a dire thing that you have to hold your nose and vote for someone you actively loathe (that Super Tuesday shit is never just gonna be water over the bridge) and b) effectively accelerationism. To do that, you have to establish that Biden produces better outcomes than Trump-- and believe it or not, even in an intersectionalist grouping of leftists that's not wholly understood to be the case. Not merely because of climate change-- and let's be clear, Biden's climate change policy is disqualifying. Not merely because of the question of what happens after Biden's single term if there's a return to the status quo-- that, let's be clear, Trump's election was a reaction to. Not merely because very few of us will get any visible improvement in our own lives because of this-- which, let's be clear, is the primary driver of enthusiasm in any electoral campaign no matter how noble the goal. Not merely because we are tacitly ceding our own voices and collapsing the enthusiasm of what meager movement we've managed to scrounge together-- that, let's be clear, many of us are convinced is the ONLY way to organize a response to the coming threat of ecofascism. But also because Biden is not trusted-- neither in terms of his integrity nor in terms of his competence. We remember how he's talked about how we need to compromise with Republicans-- and so the question is, is he even going to fight for the kids in cages that we're beat about the head over as a rhetorical cudgel by his supporters? I mean, what the fuck are you gonna do if he decides not to pursue that avenue? You gonna protest him? Are you? You gonna tell us to wait for his successor in four years who is DEFINITELY a lock instead (and conveniently, definitely NOT a leftist)? Also, are we gonna pretend, like Biden is, that 2012-2016 didn't happen? Because let's be clear, it's not an open question if Biden is gonna drive down-ticket enthusiasm with a message laser-focused on BEAT TRUMP, and if he doesn't we are fucked by simple dint of obstructionism.

Look, here's the honest truth: if you can imagine two tiny people in a trenchcoat who hold each other in unreserved and abject loathing, that's the Democratic party as a result of First Past The Post. That runs deeper than Bernie and should be clear by now for anybody with eyes to see. Party A keeps telling Party B it HAS to vote for Biden, even has to VOCALLY SUPPORT Biden, or Party B just wants Trump to win; while at the same time implying that Party B is useless and inconsequential anyways and that their ideas are unworkable. So which is it? We're being told we're actively endangering the election just by criticizing Biden, for example, giving an underwhelming speech for a couple minutes in the middle of a pandemic while being nearly unseen. This is who the candidates whose policy positions most resembled his decided to drop out to support. And yet those of us whose policy positions are nearly diametrically opposed to that are supposed to be the ones who are responsible for being the necessary support? It's implicitly understood we don't get anything in return for this-- it's our moral obligation. Do you have any idea how hard that makes it for me to sell other people on the idea of a Biden presidency?

You can't guilt people into handing you a win.

And that's without a global pandemic beating down the door and making the case that we need radical change and we need it now. That's without a stock market literally calling to be fed with the blood of workers. That's without a foreign policy position that's more precarious than it's ever been and that calls for a decidedly non-interventionist approach to foreign policy. That's without whatever else this fucked up nightmare of a year has in store for us before November! Is this conversation driving some anxiety in you, dear reader? Better hope shit doesn't get worse in this grand old year. Somehow.
this is nonsense, my dude

elections are never about just one thing. this election isn't just about "defeating trump" - especially not for sanders voters. the enthusiasm of sanders supporters wasn't just because they specifically wanted to see bernie sanders "defeat trump". it was about ideas. it was about policies. ideas and policies that joe biden emphatically does not support. why on earth would they be equally excited for someone that doesn't share their views? why would they be equally excited to elect a man that demonstrably does not even want to give them the shit they support?

if you think that all that matters right now is getting trump out, that's your prerogative. other people are not obliged to feel the same. I don't feel the same. I think it's important (and necessary), but I also think that a huge swathe of the country is being crushed under unfair policies that both trump and biden will not come anywhere close to addressing in a satisfactory manner. that matters to me. that's what gets my "passion" - people who demonstrate that they understand shit is broken, especially for the young/the poor/minorities. joe biden doesn't do that, and so I'm not going to be excited about him, and no amount of "please clap" bullshit is going to convince me otherwise.

if he wants my excitement, he should do something that excites me. if he wants my "passion", he should support policies that I am passionate about. I doubt he will. that's not why people voted for him in the primary - in fact, you could argue that many people voted for him expressly because he will not do things that excite me. that's ok. that's where the party decided to go. that also means it's on biden's passionate supporters to do passionate supporter things now. to quote some guy named "obama", elections have consequences. this is one of them. no amount of browbeating or derision will get you what you're looking for.

Preach.
 

Lost Knight

Member
Mar 17, 2019
944
West Virginia
I would rather stop the bleeding then let Trump continue to fuck the country to death for four years because we can't have a revolution right this second. People are dying now.

People were dying under Obama as well, there are deeply rooted problems in this country that bigger and older than Trump. Do you honestly think that Biden would stop that? You're the one living in a fucking fantasy land.
 

Deleted member 4274

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,435
OP knows what he's talking about. I know a good many people at my job, (I work at an IT managed services firm) who thinks Trump is doing a WONDERFUL job. People MUCH more learned than me. It baffles my mind.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,513
People were dying under Obama as well, there are deeply rooted problems in this country that bigger and older than Trump. Do you honestly think that Biden would stop that? You're the one living in a fucking fantasy land.

Of course there are problems bigger and older than Trump. And similarly, Bernie Sanders is not a magician. He would not solve income inequality if he got voted in with a hostile Congress that doesn't agree with him.

There is no ideal solution. There is only pragmatism and failure. You either fight the battle you can actually win or everyone loses, including you.
 

saenima

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,892
All the people shitting on those who refuse to support Biden should have spent the last 5 years shitting on those who refused to support Sanders.
 
May 21, 2018
2,020
People were dying under Obama as well, there are deeply rooted problems in this country that bigger and older than Trump. Do you honestly think that Biden would stop that? You're the one living in a fucking fantasy land.

This is ridiculous. Those deeply rooted problems are getting bigger and nastier under Trump. In every objective sense Biden is much better than Trump, even if the result may not be as good as anyone hoped. Basically you are saying that if you don't get everything you want then fuck everyone else because my political views are more important than the people who have suffered directly because Trump became president and will suffer even more because he gets a second term. You are being as selfish as the conservative fuck you got mines.

PS: And just to be clear, I voted for Sanders in the primary. I would've loved to have him as the candidate, and I think he and Warren are leagues better than Biden. But evidently most of the country doesn't think that way. It sucks but you gotta compromise.
 

Trisc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,485
People were dying under Obama as well, there are deeply rooted problems in this country that bigger and older than Trump. Do you honestly think that Biden would stop that? You're the one living in a fucking fantasy land.
And they'll keep dying with Biden.
We need to remember that Trump actively discussed using nuclear weapons, fraternizes with dictators, and appeals to the gutter trash of American citizens (white nationalists, serial rapists, human rights violators) and regards them as heroes as he did with Steve Bannon, Jeffrey Epstein, and Joe Arpaio.

It is insanely difficult for me to say this, because it's the most despicable situation the DNC could've thrust onto voters like us, but Biden really is the only option here. The suffering he will cause is lesser than the violence, the cultural damage, and the humiliation that Trump will bring onto this country with another four years. You know just as much as I do that it fucking sucks that Biden is likely the Democratic candidate we'll have to vote for in November, but we have to vote for him anyway.

I know this isn't a compelling argument. But I don't want to talk down to either of you, because I know you both know how bad it is that it's come to Biden v. Trump.
 

Lost Knight

Member
Mar 17, 2019
944
West Virginia
Of course there are problems bigger and older than Trump. And similarly, Bernie Sanders is not a magician. He would not solve income inequality if he got voted in with a hostile Congress that doesn't agree with him.

There is no ideal solution. There is only pragmatism and failure. You either fight the battle you can actually win or everyone loses, including you.

Biden would actually fight against every single change that I want to happen, while Bernie have had a history of fighting for me and my ideals, I know that he wouldn't be able to do everything, but Biden would do NOTHING! How is that pragmatic? It's a win for me. Having someone that only slightly less shitty than Trump isn't good enough. Also, it's not a revolution when I'm asking for exists in every devolped country.
 
Oct 25, 2017
22,378
It's the magic of the two party system.
Vote for our shitty guy because he is less shitty than his shitty opponent. He's still not good and won'T do anything you want but what, do you want that other guy in office?

Talking in general here, not about this specific election. There is no question that even Biden would be in another stratosphere compared to Trump
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,513
Biden would actually fight against every single change that I want to happen, while Bernie have had a history of fighting for me and my ideals, I know that he wouldn't be able to do everything, but Biden would do NOTHING! How is that pragmatic? It's a win for me. Having someone that only slightly less shitty than Trump isn't good enough. Also, it's not a revolution when I'm asking for exists in every devolped country.

He's not slightly less shitty than Trump. Trump is actively destroying every facet of American life, and gleefully doing so. And he's doing this in his first term. He gets worse every single day and he will get even worse in his second term when he gets carte blanche to completely redefine the Supreme Court for the better part of the rest of all of our lives.

Biden isn't an amazing candidate, but he's so much better than what we have right now it's not even a discussion. The fact that people bend over backwards to position him as barely an improvement speaks to how poisoned and factioned the political discourse has become in this country.

I am not willing to sacrifice 30 years of the supreme court because a socialist candidate can't win a primary with the same exact message and demographics he also failed to win a primary with four years ago.
 

Lost Knight

Member
Mar 17, 2019
944
West Virginia
He's not slightly less shitty than Trump. Trump is actively destroying every facet of American life, and gleefully doing so. And he's doing this in his first term. He gets worse every single day and he will get even worse in his second term when he gets carte blanche to completely redefine the Supreme Court for the better part of the rest of all of our lives.

Biden isn't an amazing candidate, but he's so much better than what we have right now it's not even a discussion. The fact that people bend over backwards to position him as barely an improvement speaks to how poisoned and factioned the political discourse has become in this country.

I am not willing to sacrifice 30 years of the supreme court because a socialist candidate can't win a primary with the same exact message and demographics he also failed to win a primary with four years ago.

Because Biden's history speaks for himself, gaslighting and guilt tripping isn't enough for me to vote.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
Biden would actually fight against every single change that I want to happen, while Bernie have had a history of fighting for me and my ideals, I know that he wouldn't be able to do everything, but Biden would do NOTHING! How is that pragmatic? It's a win for me. Having someone that only slightly less shitty than Trump isn't good enough. Also, it's not a revolution when I'm asking for exists in every devolped country.

You know it is funny when you gave people an outlet to try and convince you (give me something to vote for) and something that wouldn't work (Trump is worse), they kept trying the one that you said won't work like it will magically somehow work after the 50th try or something.

I probably can't convince you to vote for Biden in the presidency (I mean I could try but it's late and I'm either too drunk/sober tonight to put the effort) but unlike them I won't hold it against you. I will however request you think about voting downticket and among your local postings and proposals. If we can make a dent locally, it becomes easier to make the change in our house, senate, and eventual presidency. Please consider looking into the local candidates and voting the ones you think are best in, even if you chose not to vote for the presidency.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,513
Because Biden's history speaks for himself, gaslighting and guilt tripping isn't enough for me to vote.

Then you don't have the right to complain if Trump wins again and guts the Supreme Court and we spend the rest of our natural lives unable to make any meaningful change. I have zero sympathy for people who would rather burn the entire world down than fight to safeguard what we can save.
 

Keldroc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,978
All the people shitting on those who refuse to support Biden should have spent the last 5 years shitting on those who refused to support Sanders.

If Bernie woulda won, then Bernie woulda won. In 2016 and in 2020. You lost. Badly. The "Bernie Revolution" is definitively not a thing at the polls, and that's the only place that matters. Get over it and get the lunatic out of the White House so we don't end up with a stacked Supreme Court for the rest of the generation or longer. Unless you seriously, honestly think Biden will pick someone as bad as Trump would, in which case you're completely lost. Run a better candidate next time. This shit is very old now.
 

SmokeMaxX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,336
Lol at both sides-ing when Trump wants to force people back to work in the middle of a fucking pandemic. This guy is going to get millions killed and people want to talk about how Biden isn't perfect.
 

NTGYK

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,470
Biden would actually fight against every single change that I want to happen, while Bernie have had a history of fighting for me and my ideals, I know that he wouldn't be able to do everything, but Biden would do NOTHING! How is that pragmatic? It's a win for me. Having someone that only slightly less shitty than Trump isn't good enough. Also, it's not a revolution when I'm asking for exists in every devolped country.
Well in this case "less shitty" is a guy that wouldn't let hundred of thousands die just to prop up the stock market. I mean... That's who you've got in power now. A vicious idiot who's okay with thousands dying and the healthcare system self destructing because of his fragile ego.
 

Lost Knight

Member
Mar 17, 2019
944
West Virginia
We need to remember that Trump actively discussed using nuclear weapons, fraternizes with dictators, and appeals to the gutter trash of American citizens (white nationalists, serial rapists, human rights violators) and regards them as heroes as he did with Steve Bannon, Jeffrey Epstein, and Joe Arpaio.

It is insanely difficult for me to say this, because it's the most despicable situation the DNC could've thrust onto voters like us, but Biden really is the only option here. The suffering he will cause is lesser than the violence, the cultural damage, and the humiliation that Trump will bring onto this country with another four years. You know just as much as I do that it fucking sucks that Biden is likely the Democratic candidate we'll have to vote for in November, but we have to vote for him anyway.

I know this isn't a compelling argument. But I don't want to talk down to either of you, because I know you both know how bad it is that it's come to Biden v. Trump.

I get you, but I dont think Biden is going the change that people think he is going it be, just because he isn't Trump doesn't mean he is good. His history doesn't bring confidence.
 

NTGYK

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,470
This is ridiculous. Those deeply rooted problems are getting bigger and nastier under Trump. In every objective sense Biden is much better than Trump, even if the result may not be as good as anyone hoped. Basically you are saying that if you don't get everything you want then fuck everyone else because my political views are more important than the people who have suffered directly because Trump became president and will suffer even more because he gets a second term. You are being as selfish as the conservative fuck you got mines.

Most American thing I've ever read
 

Artdayne

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
5,015
Then you don't have the right to complain if Trump wins again and guts the Supreme Court and we spend the rest of our natural lives unable to make any meaningful change. I have zero sympathy for people who would rather burn the entire world down than fight to safeguard what we can save.

Sounds like a fatal mistake from your pragmatic Obama that led to this problem with the Supreme Court.
 

Armadilo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,877
User Warned: Hostility
I get you, but I dont think Biden is going the change that people think he is going it be, just because he isn't Trump doesn't mean he is good. His history doesn't bring confidence.
Basically a self entitled person that says that they are for a cause but when they don't get what they want, they show their true selfish ways,

Ladies and Gentleman.
 

Lost Knight

Member
Mar 17, 2019
944
West Virginia
You know it is funny when you gave people an outlet to try and convince you (give me something to vote for) and something that wouldn't work (Trump is worse), they kept trying the one that you said won't work like it will magically somehow work after the 50th try or something.

I probably can't convince you to vote for Biden in the presidency (I mean I could try but it's late and I'm either too drunk/sober tonight to put the effort) but unlike them I won't hold it against you. I will however request you think about voting downticket and among your local postings and proposals. If we can make a dent locally, it becomes easier to make the change in our house, senate, and eventual presidency. Please consider looking into the local candidates and voting the ones you think are best in, even if you chose not to vote for the presidency.

I did vote for representatives in Congress, and been looking into and helping local candidates. Honestly, I'm sick and tired of (they're not Trump) argument, it's didn't work out in 2016,and it won't work out now. We need more people like Ilhan Omar and AOC in politics, enough with bullshit candidates like Biden and Hillary.
 

iRAWRasaurus

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,729
Try convincing people on here to vote for Biden. To me, the never Biden people are just as bad as trump voters.
 

Trisc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,485
I get you, but I dont think Biden is going the change that people think he is going it be, just because he isn't Trump doesn't mean he is good. His history doesn't bring confidence.
He won't elect fascists into the Supreme Court. Those are appointments for life, and while you and I may outlive Trump, I'll at the very least be in my fifties by the time one of Trump's appointees kicks the bucket (at the very least). The danger a lopsided Supreme Court represents to our country can't be understated. That alone is why Clinton, for as horrible as she was, needed to win in 2016. And now, it's why I feel Biden needs to win as well, for as much as I despise him, too.

Biden's history shouldn't fill you with confidence regarding him being a good president, but he will be a better president than Trump. I can't emphasize enough how in this case, "He's not Trump" is enough. It's the lowest bar you need to clear, and he cleared it. I would've loved a president who sought actual change. I still want Bernie to beat Biden in the primary. But I have to cut my losses at some point so we don't get four more years of Trump's America.
Try convincing people on here to vote for Biden. To me, the never Biden people are just as bad as trump voters.
You know that's not true, and you also know that argument isn't going to convince anyone who was already hostile to the idea of Biden that he's worth their vote. You just wind up coming off as someone speaking down to them. I know this because I was a "never Biden" voter, and even after realizing the consequences of another four years of Trump, I still hate the kind of rhetoric that you're spewing.
 

Artdayne

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
5,015
I believe in harm reduction so I'm going to vote for Biden but ultimately it's Biden's responsibility to convince voters to vote for him.
 

Trisc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,485
I believe in harm reduction so I'm going to vote for Biden but ultimately it's Biden's responsibility to convince voters to vote for him.
To add to that, we shouldn't be hostile to people who are clearly anguished over Bernie's chances of winning the primary. Be respectful and let them get it out of their system. American politics are pure poison, and we need to remember the human on the other side of the walls of text we type.
 

Xaszatm

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,903
I did vote for representatives in Congress, and been looking into and helping local candidates. Honestly, I'm sick and tired of (they're not Trump) argument, it's didn't work out in 2016,and it won't work out now. We need more people like Ilhan Omar and AOC in politics, enough with bullshit candidates like Biden and Hillary.

I agree. I'm happy you are still into politics and are trying to focus on local elections. A lot of good can still happen on a local level as long as we put an effort into it and not give up.
 

Lost Knight

Member
Mar 17, 2019
944
West Virginia
You're saying that it's perfectly fine to have Trump for 4 more years, you get the whole baggage with it when you don't stand up against that bullshit, just the truth basically

I'm not fine with Trump, but I'm not fine Biden either. Not liking Biden doesn't come with being apathetic to the political situation at hand, I just think it's not productive to vote for Biden who won't do shit to fix this country's deep-rooted problem which Trump is taking advantage of, get it?
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,208
Because Biden's history speaks for himself, gaslighting and guilt tripping isn't enough for me to vote.
So, the next time a hurricane hits Puerto Rico, do you think Biden would hold back aid like Trump did?

The next time there's an issue with immigration, do you think a Biden administration would harshly split up families, put children in the position of being sexually and emotionally abused? Do you think a Biden administration would lose track of children? Do you think that Biden would gut funding of an agency that does nothing and hasn't done anything, only to need said agency barely two years later?

This shit isn't a matter of gaslighting or guilt tripping, it's a matter of facts. Put Biden in any position Trump has been in at any point in the past four years. Do you honestly think Biden would do every stupid, horrible, and damaging thing Trump has done? Or hell, even any of the GOP candidates that ran in 2015?

If for some reason you honestly think Biden would've done one of the things I've mentioned, let alone the whole Trump/Biden swap wholesale, then you might have a point.

But at this point, a 2015 Jeb Bush is much preferable than anything we've gotten since the last election and it'd be asinine to not vote for 2015 Jeb today if he were on the DNC ticket over Trump.
 

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,677
Trying to shame people into voting for your candidate of choice has never worked and will never work and people in this thread would do well to remember that, no matter how angry you are at the idea that a Biden nom might reduce turnout from the people who he has failed time and time again.

FWIW I do think people should just hold their nose and vote him to prevent the Supreme Court being packed forever but single issues like that are also very hard to get people around.
 
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Lost Knight

Member
Mar 17, 2019
944
West Virginia
So, the next time a hurricane hits Puerto Rico, do you think Biden would hold back aid like Trump did?

The next time there's an issue with immigration, do you think a Biden administration would harshly split up families, put children in the position of being sexually and emotionally abused? Do you think a Biden administration would lose track of children? Do you think that Biden would gut funding of an agency that does nothing and hasn't done anything, only to need said agency barely two years later?

This shit isn't a matter of gaslighting or guilt tripping, it's a matter of facts. Put Biden in any position Trump has been in at any point in the past four years. Do you honestly think Biden would do every stupid, horrible, and damaging thing Trump has done? Or hell, even any of the GOP candidates that ran in 2015?

If for some reason you honestly think Biden would've done one of the things I've mentioned, let alone the whole Trump/Biden swap wholesale, then you might have a point.

But at this point, a 2015 Jeb Bush is much preferable than anything we've gotten since the last election and it'd be asinine to not vote for 2015 Jeb today if he were on the DNC ticket over Trump.

Read my posts, I never said Biden was as bad as Trump, but Biden's history is not all sunshine or rainbows either since he did vote for the Iraq war after all while Bernie didn't. Oh, and Obama's administration did some horrible shit in regards to immigration too, Trump isn't an isolated case. Not to mention the drone strikes that happened when Biden was VP. Less of a shit is still SHIT.
 

T002 Tyrant

Member
Nov 8, 2018
8,936
Not reading the comments on social media because I don't need to be pushed over the edge regarding my dark thoughts. I know their feelings already. I don't need daily reminders that right wing extremists want me dead. That's poor advice OP :/
 

Deleted member 44129

User requested account closure
Banned
May 29, 2018
7,690
As my notifications on FB get blown up by a bunch of right wing nut jobs I have to wonder......how do we defeat people that are convinced this man is the greatest president of our life time?

Everyone always says "don't read the comments"

No, read them.....and get reminded and understand that these people are unified in their beliefs, they have an extreme hatred for you. They have a extreme hatred for people who voted for Biden and a even bigger hatred for people who voted for Bernie. They believe -everything- this man says.

These are people who want to go back to work, and want to get back out there because Trump said it's ok.

Hundreds of thousands will die.....yet I worry. I see people threatening to sit out the election if their nominee does not win or make it to November.

We can't afford to do that. Not voting aligns you with the idiots that are now sending me death threats in Messages in there. All because I said he needs to get voted out

Where the fuck is our fire to vote him out? Why do we have to twist people's arms to vote him out. How am I supposed to be respectful to people that say they won't vote in November? That's what I want to know. I already got a hostile warning for it once before. Chances are maybe I shouldn't even make this thread right now because I'm typing out of a place of frustration and red hot anger. But I'm pissed man.....I'm pissed. It's not just about defeating trump it's about giving a huge fuck you to these idiots that believe in him. We have to knock them down a few pegs.

Cant we stop the bullshit, come together and do that?

Rant over.
Trump will rig the shit out of the election under the shadow of Covid19
 

ChippyTurtle

Banned
Oct 13, 2018
4,773
democrats will pull for the nominee, every poll for the past 6 months at least shows near universal dislike of the man and combined with our increases in primary voting, seems to indicate that they are willing to go vote to get him out.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,509
Biden's platform isn't ideal and yet still will be hard fought to achieve any of it. Him getting elected is still going to stop so much of the bleeding; and, if any of his platform is achieved, it pushes the country further left.

But yeah, ok, enable every worst trait about neoliberalism + some fascism with a Trump re-election because of a tantrum. Enjoy rights getting stripped away and courts becoming insurmountably far right so that if in the future we do by some miracle have a leftist nom they won't be able to achieve anything at all.