Hollywood Reporter: Dave Chappelle Slams Michael Jackson Accusers and "Cancel Culture" in Netflix Special

[Mivey]

Art doesn't exist in a vacuum. Any joke or bit has a clear political message, and it's completely ridiculous that a rich and influential man is angry that he can't make fun of trans people without getting some sort of backlash. His bit about using a certain word reads like a caricature of racist people insisting they have the right to say the n word.
Chappelle is free to make transphobic stand up shows, just as I'm free to call him a bigoted, spineless asshole.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Art doesn't exist in a vacuum. Any joke or bit has a clear political message, and it's completely ridiculous that a rich and influential man is angry that he can't make fun of trans people without getting some sort of backlash. His bit about using a certain word reads like a caricature of racist people insisting they have the right to say the n word.
Chappelle is free to make transphobic stand up shows, just as I'm free to call him a bigoted, spineless asshole.

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Wait didn't you get the memo? He's not spineless he's the bravely making millions and fighting the censorious and cancelling powers of the T words and F words and other Queers who control Hollywood!

We should be in awe of his transphobia and admiring his bravery!!!!

 

[Just_a_Mouse]

TFW people pay tickets to see and cheer for a person to stand on a stage and yell the same shit some random guy who'll punch the shit out of you would.

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This is why I'm extremely suspect of anyone gushing about how funny this is while ignoring the toxic content of his message. Or maybe ignoring isn't the right word, condoning is more accurate.

 

[Papacheeks]

This is why I'm extremely suspect of anyone gushing about how funny this is while ignoring the toxic content of his message. Or maybe ignoring isn't the right word, condoning is more accurate.

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I know I'm going to either get banned or dog piled for this, but maybe people that laughed/WATCHED, and ran with what he was saying understood that nothing in comedy is off limits, thats the point of comedy is to say shit no one wants to say or talk about.

particular subjects Dave talked about were all current and relevant topics that right now are in a the spotlight from R.Kelly/Michael Jackson, to TRANS in the LGBTQ.

Just like in his show he was bringing racism into all if not most of his sketches because it was something for a while that was kind of not openly talked about anymore, we thought that we had covered that, as talked about it and accepted it. But he was there to show us it was in front of us all the time with his sketches.

It's no different. Nothing is off limits. Eddie murphy use to be the same way. I mean look at his Cosby jokes from the Twain awards.

 

[Rockets]

Comedy doesn't have to be politically correct, but some jokes can still go too far for people and those people should be allowed to criticize it. Comedy isn't immune from criticism, nor is it something that people don't make mistakes over.

Even George Carlin, the fallback option for dumbasses who want to cry about not limiting comedy, understood that there were limits and that sometimes you can't say just any joke.

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My take is that not being pc is okay and that there's no line you can't cross, as long as you're funny you should be fine. I do think society in general has gotten more sensitive as a whole and that's more of a good thing than a bad thing, but you can't try to censor his form of artistic expression no matter how offended you get.

I don't think Dave is immune to criticism though. While I don't really agree with the backlash I think it's necessary in order to maintain the dialogue.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I know I'm going to either get banned or dog piled for this, but maybe people that laughed/WATCHED, and ran with what he was saying understood that nothing in comedy is off limits, thats the point of comedy is to say shit no one wants to say or talk about.

particular subjects Dave talked about were all current and relevant topics that right now are in a the spotlight from R.Kelly/Michael Jackson, to TRANS in the LGBTQ.

Just like in his show he was bringing racism into all if not most of his sketches because it was something for a while that was kind of not openly talked about anymore, we thought that we had covered that, as talked about it and accepted it. But he was there to show us it was in front of us all the time with his sketches.

It's no different. Nothing is off limits. Eddie murphy use to be the same way. I mean look at his Cosby jokes from the Twain awards.

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Yeah nobody openly mocks trans people's existence anymore! Thank God Dave brought it back!

 

[Alavard]

I know I'm going to either get banned or dog piled for this, but maybe people that laughed/WATCHED, and ran with what he was saying understood that nothing in comedy is off limits, thats the point of comedy is to say shit no one wants to say or talk about.

particular subjects Dave talked about were all current and relevant topics that right now are in a the spotlight from R.Kelly/Michael Jackson, to TRANS in the LGBTQ.

Just like in his show he was bringing racism into all if not most of his sketches because it was something for a while that was kind of not openly talked about anymore, we thought that we had covered that, as talked about it and accepted it. But he was there to show us it was in front of us all the time with his sketches.

It's no different. Nothing is off limits. Eddie murphy use to be the same way. I mean look at his Cosby jokes from the Twain awards.

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Amazingly you can discuss bigotry (and even make jokes about it!) without being a bigot. You don't (or shouldn't, anyway) get a pass from making transphobic remarks just because you've tried to shield it as a 'joke'.

 

[excelsiorlef]

My take is that not being pc is okay and that there's no line you can't cross, as long as you're funny you should be fine.

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Well that's nonsense. So hate speech is fine as long as it is a funny joke?

 

[beelulzebub]

Yep, Louis CK is in absolutely no trouble at all.

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He's selling out clubs and has no trouble booking shows. He'll eventually claw his way out of the hole he's in, sadly.

 

[Deleted member 6949]

I know I'm going to either get banned or dog piled for this, but maybe people that laughed/WATCHED, and ran with what he was saying understood that nothing in comedy is off limits, thats the point of comedy is to say shit no one wants to say or talk about.

particular subjects Dave talked about were all current and relevant topics that right now are in a the spotlight from R.Kelly/Michael Jackson, to TRANS in the LGBTQ.

Just like in his show he was bringing racism into all if not most of his sketches because it was something for a while that was kind of not openly talked about anymore, we thought that we had covered that, as talked about it and accepted it. But he was there to show us it was in front of us all the time with his sketches.

It's no different. Nothing is off limits. Eddie murphy use to be the same way. I mean look at his Cosby jokes from the Twain awards.

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You could apply this same attitude to Michael Richards.

 

[Just_a_Mouse]

I know I'm going to either get banned or dog piled for this, but maybe people that laughed/WATCHED, and ran with what he was saying understood that nothing in comedy is off limits, thats the point of comedy is to say shit no one wants to say or talk about.

particular subjects Dave talked about were all current and relevant topics that right now are in a the spotlight from R.Kelly/Michael Jackson, to TRANS in the LGBTQ.

Just like in his show he was bringing racism into all if not most of his sketches because it was something for a while that was kind of not openly talked about anymore, we thought that we had covered that, as talked about it and accepted it. But he was there to show us it was in front of us all the time with his sketches.

It's no different. Nothing is off limits. Eddie murphy use to be the same way. I mean look at his Cosby jokes from the Twain awards.

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If you have ever been targeted by hate speech then perhaps you could understand how hurtful it is to see folks here laughing at jokes being manufactured by the very people that want you dead. My life isn't a punchline for these sick assholes, and fuck Dave for enabling them on a national stage.

 

[Kitten Mittens]

I know I'm going to either get banned or dog piled for this, but maybe people that laughed/WATCHED, and ran with what he was saying understood that nothing in comedy is off limits, thats the point of comedy is to say shit no one wants to say or talk about.

particular subjects Dave talked about were all current and relevant topics that right now are in a the spotlight from R.Kelly/Michael Jackson, to TRANS in the LGBTQ.

Just like in his show he was bringing racism into all if not most of his sketches because it was something for a while that was kind of not openly talked about anymore, we thought that we had covered that, as talked about it and accepted it. But he was there to show us it was in front of us all the time with his sketches.

It's no different. Nothing is off limits. Eddie murphy use to be the same way. I mean look at his Cosby jokes from the Twain awards.

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I don't think Dave doing Trans material is bad or should be off limits (although he's not my first choice to do smart Trans content), but once he again he proved to not be up to the task. The Alphabet Car bit started off pretty smart and funny, and then he tried to stick the landing on the bit by comparing being trans to being a chinese man stuck in a black man's body. That's epically stupid, but more importantly it's dangerous and does harm. What made it worse is that he admitted he's been workshopping that bit for a long time, and *that's* what he chose to put in a special? Just pure stupidity.

 

[Papacheeks]

Amazingly you can discuss bigotry (and even make jokes about it!) without being a bigot. You don't (or shouldn't, anyway) get a pass from making transphobic remarks just because you've tried to shield it as a 'joke'.

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So then we can't make racism jokes too is also what your saying? It's a two way street. I think the point is what is and isn't off limits?

 

[Deleted member 59339]

Suggestion to some people:

If there are people having a conversation about things a person said, and your position is that it would have been fine for that person to say literally anything...maybe just sit this one out.

 

[Randomly Generated]

I'll never understand the people who think comedy is this special class of speech where all social responsibility is immediately null and void. Like you can say whatever you want to whomever you want and no one can criticize you because you don't mean what you say—as if pretending to be an asshole for laughs is any different from just being an asshole.

 

[Deleted member 59339]

So then we can't make racism jokes too is also what your saying? It's a two way street. I think the point is what is and isn't off limits?

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It's like you didn't even read the post you responded to.

No one is saying you can't tell a joke about LGBTQ issues. People are saying you shouldn't tell jokes about LGBTQ issues that punch down at LGBTQ people.

If you're going to joke about bigotry, the bigots should be the target, not the victims of bigotry.

 

[crema]

I'll never understand the people who think comedy is this special class of speech where all social responsibility is immediately null and void. Like you can say whatever you want to whomever you want and no one can criticize you because you don't mean what you say—as if pretending to be an asshole for laughs is any different from just being an asshole.

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What I find even more concerning is the number of people on the internet defending him for 'just telling it as it really is".

 

[Nairume]

My take is that not being pc is okay and that there's no line you can't cross, as long as you're funny you should be fine. I do think society in general has gotten more sensitive as a whole and that's more of a good thing than a bad thing, but you can't try to censor his form of artistic expression no matter how offended you get.

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There is a world of difference between censorship and criticism made in the hopes that someone will reconsider a potentially harmful bit. There's a reason comedy largely abandoned blackface despite it being a big part of the comedy scene for years. People did get more sensitive, which was a good thing.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I'll never understand the people who think comedy is this special class of speech where all social responsibility is immediately null and void. Like you can say whatever you want to whomever you want and no one can criticize you because you don't mean what you say—as if pretending to be an asshole for laughs is any different from just being an asshole.

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I once said only the gaming community could breed something like Gamergate

I was wrong. It's gaming and comedy.

 

[CrazyAndy]

as if pretending to be an asshole for laughs is any different from just being an asshole.

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It certainly is.

 

[Papacheeks]

I don't think Dave doing Trans material is bad or should be off limits (although he's not my first choice to do smart Trans content), but once he again he proved to not be up to the task. The Alphabet Car bit started off pretty smart and funny, and then he tried to stick the landing on the bit by comparing being trans to being a chinese man stuck in a black man's body. That's epically stupid, but more importantly it's dangerous and does harm. What made it worse is that he admitted he's been workshopping that bit for a long time, and *that's* what he chose to put in a special? Just pure stupidity.

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But isn't him being ignorant the point? Like how many are and have no clue about Trans, and the impacts in LGBTQ. I would say honestly speaking I'm very Ignorant to Trans community because I myself don't know a lot about it and am not around it where I live.

Dave even said in the Epilogue he's very Ignorant strait up like he doesn't know enough about it. Which was also his point in the older days of chappelle show that people were ignorant of continuing racism going on during a very progressive time.

I would say we are even more progressive now, and there's still ton's of ignorant people me included who are oblivious to a lot of things going on. The point is to talk about it.

So I think his special did it's job. Here we are. Not everyone takes it the same way I get that, and there are a lot of people hurt because of his ignorance which I also understand. But it's no different than any other comic who brings up topics like Race/slavery, rape, among other taboo topics.

It's like you didn't even read the post you responded to.

No one is saying you can't tell a joke about LGBTQ issues. People are saying you shouldn't tell jokes about LGBTQ issues that punch down at LGBTQ people.

If you're going to joke about bigotry, the bigots should be the target, not the victims of bigotry.

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So when slavery jokes, and racism jokes are done the people who are racist should be the ones being made fun of? Because dave does both spectrums.

 

[Nairume]

I mean, it is absolutely amazing to see people claim that comedy doesn't have limits in defense of a comedian who famously quit his extremely successful show in part because he hit a limit where he realized the harm of some of his bits.

 

[Kitten Mittens]

But isn't him being ignorant the point? Like how many are and have no clue about Trans, and the impacts in LGBTQ. I would say honestly speaking I'm very Ignorant to Trans community because I myself don't know a lot about it and am not around it where I live.

Dave even said in the Epilogue he's very Ignorant strait up like he doesn't know enough about it. Which was also his point in the older days of chappelle show that people were ignorant of continuing racism going on during a very progressive time.

I would say we are even more progressive now, and there's still ton's of ignorant people me included who are oblivious to a lot of things going on. The point is to talk about it.

So I think his special did it's job. Here we are. Not everyone takes it the same way I get that, and there are a lot of people hurt because of his ignorance which I also understand. But it's no different than any other comic who brings up topics like Race/slavery, rape, among other taboo topics.

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So using that logic, white comics should be allowed to tell ignorant as fuck jokes about what it means to be black to a mostly white audience? How is that commendable or acceptable at all?

 

[excelsiorlef]

But isn't him being ignorant the point?

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No.

 

[Randomly Generated]

I once said only the gaming community could breed something like Gamergate

I was wrong. It's gaming and comedy.

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Any community where irony places a major role can be easily nudged into something very dark.

 

[Randomly Generated]

I mean, it is absolutely amazing to see people claim that comedy doesn't have limits in defense of a comedian who famously quit his extremely successful show in part because he hit a limit where he realized the harm of some of his bits.

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This is what's so wild about this. And I bet most of the people defending him now were praising him back then for walking away.

 

[Papacheeks]

So using that logic, white comics should be allowed to tell ignorant as fuck jokes about what it means to be black to a mostly white audience? How is that commendable or acceptable at all?

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Ralphie may did a lot of black comedy.

This is what's so wild about this. And I bet most of the people defending him now were praising him back then for walking away.

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From what i've watched out of his older interviews about walking away, it wasn't just about what he was seeing about the skits and their effects. It was the industry itself he was getting sick of. Believe it was in the James lipton invterview.

 

[Violater]

So much things out there he could be talking about, yet he seems to gravitate towards these controversial sets.

 

[Jebusman]

I would say honestly speaking I'm very Ignorant to Trans community because I myself don't know a lot about it and am not around it where I live.

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I mean if this is the case why did you jump in to blanket dismiss the concerns of the very community telling you it's a problem.

 

[Ziltoidia 9]

My approach is, there are a lot of other topics he could try to joke around about, selecting these topics seems suspect. I guess he just had to respond to people about the other specials.

 

[NameUser]

Some of it was pretty awful, but I enjoyed it more towards the end when he started talking about guns.

 

[Kitten Mittens]

Ralphie may did a lot of black comedy.

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Was it ignorant comedy? Was the intent of his comedy to get you to laugh at, and not with, black people?

 

[Alavard]

So then we can't make racism jokes too is also what your saying? It's a two way street. I think the point is what is and isn't off limits?

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Yes, I'd call out anyone who makes a racist joke for the same reason. But again, you can make a joke about racism without actually being racist about it.

 

[Deleted member 59339]

So when slavery jokes, and racism jokes are done the people who are racist should be the ones being made fun of? Because dave does both spectrums.

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I'll make this as simple as possible.

Times it's okay to be racist: never.

Times it's okay to be homophobic or transphobic: never.

It doesn't matter what you're joking about, or if you're even joking at all. Don't be racist, and don't be homophobic/transphobic.

Hope this clears things up!

 

[Papacheeks]

I mean if this is the case why did you jump in to blanket dismiss the concerns of the very community telling you it's a problem.

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Because I believe the whole point of his special was in some way shape for form make people talk about it. Which you maybe can take it as a bad thing or a good thing. We are talking about it now.

Has anyone spoken about this the way Dave has? I mean people are afraid they don't know enough to talk about it, and they are probably right. Dave said fuck it, if I'm wrong im wrong, if im ignorant call me out on it. Which he in his epilogue talks about.

Here we are talking about it, this is probably my first ever time on resetera ever talking in a thread like this. i think this was the entire point of the special. talk about shit no one in their right mind would try to talk about let alone make jokes about it.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Because I believe the whole point of his special was in some way shape for form make people talk about it. Which you maybe can take it as a bad thing or a good thing. We are talking about it now.

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I'm going to use dehumanizing hate speech against you as a joke and call it starting a discussion

Here we are talking about it, this is probably my first ever time on resetera ever talking in a thread like this

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This works against your thesis.

 

[Nairume]

From what i've watched out of his older interviews about walking away, it wasn't just about what he was seeing about the skits and their effects. It was the industry itself he was getting sick of. Believe it was in the James lipton invterview.

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Which is why I said "in part"

His withdrawal was due to a lot of things, but a big part of it and one of the two straws that broke the camel's back was him realizing he had a limit and couldn't bring himself to air a sketch he knew went too far.

 

[Papacheeks]

I'm going to use dehumanizing hate speech against you as a joke and call it starting a discussion

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The more things are talked about even if they are wrong, come off hatefull the more people are educated and everything can move forward.

 

[Jebusman]

Because I believe the whole point of his special was in some way shape for form make people talk about it. Which you maybe can take it as a bad thing or a good thing. We are talking about it now.

Has anyone spoken about this the way Dave has? I mean people are afraid they don't know enough to talk about it, and they are probably right. Dave said fuck it, if I'm wrong im wrong, if im ignorant call me out on it. Which he in his epilogue talks about.

Here we are talking about it, this is probably my first ever time on resetera ever talking in a thread like this. i think this was the entire point of the special. talk about shit no one in their right mind would try to talk about let alone make jokes about it.

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His epilogue involves a story about how he seemingly gave no fucks about a woman who left his show crying because she was raped and he wouldn't stop making MeToo jokes, and a trans woman who was totally down with all his trans jokes.

And the punchline for this story, about "why could this one woman not handle my jokes but this trans woman can?"

"Oh yeah! The trans woman used to be a man!"

And then proceeds to use that as justification for why he should be allowed to continue to tell trans jokes.

In what fucking realm is Dave trying to have or open a "discussion" about it.

The more things are talked about even if they are wrong, come off hatefull the more people are educated and everything can move forward.

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This isn't true. This has never been true. It has been proven time and time again that this is not at all how it works.

What actually happens, in reality, is that vulnerable and influencial people, looking for something in life to blame for their woes, hear these hateful jokes, and adopt them into their own persona. It normalizes the bigotry and becomes "acceptable" to larger and larger groups of like minded people.

Talking about things that are wrong is only successful when the discussion is SOLELY about how it is wrong. Dave isn't trying to make the example that it's wrong. He's literally trying to argue they're not.

 

[Kitten Mittens]

Because I believe the whole point of his special was in some way shape for form make people talk about it. Which you maybe can take it as a bad thing or a good thing. We are talking about it now.

Has anyone spoken about this the way Dave has? I mean people are afraid they don't know enough to talk about it, and they are probably right. Dave said fuck it, if I'm wrong im wrong, if im ignorant call me out on it. Which he in his epilogue talks about.

Here we are talking about it, this is probably my first ever time on resetera ever talking in a thread like this. i think this was the entire point of the special. talk about shit no one in their right mind would try to talk about let alone make jokes about it.

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People would have been talking about the Alphabet Car bit. It wasn't overtly offense. But he couldn't help himself, which is how the Chinese man part got tossed in at the end. So now instead of talking about the points he was making in the original bit, people are focusing on the incredibly stupid analogy he made, which was only in there to mock the Trans community. And he left no doubt that it was the intent of the bit when he started it by basically saying they brought this upon themselves by criticizing his past material.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Has anyone spoken about this the way Dave has? I mean people are afraid they don't know enough to talk about it, and they are probably right. Dave said fuck it, if I'm wrong im wrong, if im ignorant call me out on it. Which he in his epilogue talks about.

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Has anyone else used offensive analogies to debase, demean and dehumanize Trans people? Yeah like every transphobe with a Twitter account.


Genius he got called out on it after his previous specials. His response was to shit on trans people more. Which is probably what he'll do again now that he's being called out for like the 3rd or 4th time

 

[Papacheeks]

His epilogue involves a story about how he seemingly gave no fucks about a woman who left his show crying because she was raped and he wouldn't stop making MeToo jokes, and a trans woman who was totally down with all his trans jokes.

And the punchline for this story, about "why could this one woman not handle my jokes but this trans woman can?"

"Oh yeah! The trans woman used to be a man!"

And then proceeds to use that as justification for why he should be allowed to continue to tell trans jokes.

In what fucking realm is Dave trying to have a "discussion" about it.

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The more things are talked about period the more they become better in time. I mean in the 80;s eddie murphy was in the same situation with some of his comedy. But we didn't have social media or boards like these to discuss, dissect be angry, show them how wrong, and misinformed they are, and how hurtful it was.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The more things are talked about even if they are wrong, come off hatefull the more people are educated and everything can move forward.

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No. That is literally the opposite of what happens genius.

 

[Jebusman]

The more things are talked about period the more they become better in time. I mean in the 80;s eddie murphy was in the same situation with some of his comedy. But we didn't have social media or boards like these to discuss, dissect be angry, show them how wrong, and misinformed they are, and how hurtful it was.

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yeah! that's why white supremacy isn't on the rise anymo oh wait no hold on it's just as big now as it ever was.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The more things are talked about period the more they become better in time. I mean in the 80;s eddie murphy was in the same situation with some of his comedy. But we didn't have social media or boards like these to discuss, dissect be angry, show them how wrong, and misinformed they are, and how hurtful it was.

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I believe you are another prime candidate for Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters with your ability to warp reality.

Donald Trump has been an openly white supremacist and you know the result? An increase in hate...

 

[Papacheeks]

yeah! that's why white supremacy isn't on the rise anymo oh wait no hold on it's just as big now as it ever was.

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I would argue it has resurfaced because of leadership in our country have almost promoted that kind of atmosphere. And those small few now have social media to make them bigger.

I believe you are another prime candidate for Xavier's School for Gifted Youngsters with your ability to warp reality.

Donald Trump has been an openly white supremacist and you know the result? An increase in hate...

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You are totally right. But Dave chappelle has always been like this in terms of the outrageous things he talks about. Not all of it good. Like he is like most here have put it out of his element in terms of how he approached the material.

BTW, why are you attacking me? I'm being as open as I can and your literally calling me Genius and condescending shit? I was open that I'm ignorant to a lot of the trans community because I'm not around it a lot where I live, and that I don't have many friends who are trans. I have a lot gay friends, but not many who are trans.

I'm being open and honest, and literally trying to give the point of view of someone who is very non-informed and ignorant. it does not make me a bigot or a racist. I have not mocked anyone, made fun of anyone.

I literally am trying to have a conversation about Dave's material and try my best to understand everything. If I'm 100% wrong then im wrong and thank you to those who have been understanding in this knowing how ignorant and misinformed I might be.

 

[FeistyBoots]

I'm not saying anyone shouldn't be disgusted or offended. Quite the opposite. The point is that it tends to be quite selective, and a little hypocritical. People are fine with comedians punching down as long as its not about them or something they care about.

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Stop lying.

 

[excelsiorlef]

I would argue it has resurfaced because of leadership in our country have almost promoted that kind of atmosphere. And those small few now have social media to make them bigger.

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Almost like Chappelle is promoting transphobia!

Also lol at "few"

 

[AnansiThePersona]

Even with the last special I wasn't really feeling his jokes on the LGBTQ+ community. They just came off as fucked up to me. I've heard mixed reactions about the special but if there are more stuff like that in it I can't say I'm in a hurry to watch it.

 

[TheGhost]

The more things are talked about period the more they become better in time. I mean in the 80;s eddie murphy was in the same situation with some of his comedy. But we didn't have social media or boards like these to discuss, dissect be angry, show them how wrong, and misinformed they are, and how hurtful it was.

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The people telling the jokes have to care about the reprecussions first for there to be any sort of progress. As long as his audience laughs he is going to continue doing those jokes. At the moment he is like Teflon Don status. No amount of criticism seems to be impacting him or his audience. Chappelle seems like the type that would be perfectly fine being shunned so he can go back to a regular life in Ohio not being in the spotlight.