Only if you are looking at things on a very basic level that does not take societal factors such as influence into account.
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Hollywood Reporter: Dave Chappelle Slams Michael Jackson Accusers and "Cancel Culture" in Netflix Special
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No. Most people can separate out the artistry from the claims. Outside of the American media, the foreign press has pointed out inconsistencies in the documentary, which has allowed more people to come out in support of him. Also, Wade Robson's 2016 deposition was leaked online.
At the MTV VMA music awards a lot of people came out in support of Michael Jackson.
Not a fan of what he said, but do people think comedians believe everything they say on stage? Maybe he's just doing a bit?
Is Dave the target of his own jokes in the special when he makes absurd comments like that? Think Michael Scott in the office who says stupid shit but the humor is in that he's fucking stupid for saying it
Some time ago, he brought up Caitlyn Jenner into his set. I think this was when she was getting ready to show it off in Playboy. Dave joked that his response to the news?
"Yuck"
He would go on later to explain the joke is in his narrow-mindedness. Don't think he executed well.
Is this more of that or is it just straight mean spirited?
What's the joke? Shitting on an oppressed group is not funny per se
Some time ago, he brought up Caitlyn Jenner into his set. I think this was when she was getting ready to show it off in Playboy. Dave joked that his response to the news?
"Yuck"
He would go on later to explain the joke is in his narrow-mindedness. Don't think he executed well.
Is this more of that or is it just straight mean spirited?
What's the joke? Shitting on an oppressed group is not funny per se
They were opposed to a straight person saying the F-word, just like they'd be opposed to a white person saying the N-word.
Is the average person too dumb to figure out how it'd work in the opposite situation, or are people being intentionally dense?
Of course, if one has watched Leaving Neverland, one would realize that Wade's mom is a piece of work to put it mildly and what she says means fuck all.
But yeah, nonetheless it comes down to stuff like believing Wade himself vs believing his mother, and that's the exact type of stuff that opens up opportunities for people to keep supporting MJ as people will cling onto whatever they can get and don't need much at all to do so.
White people said the N-word on chappelle show. Literally in the first episode... And more after that
Who's dumb or dense now?
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Easily his worst special. I don't even care about the controversy. There was just no effort in that set, no unifying theme beyond "being a celebrity sucks." A lot of the material was a rehash of much older, and better material.
The MJ stuff was already done flawlessly with "but he made Thriller. Thriller." Expanding on that over a decade later to say the same thing except worse is just bad.
I didn't feel any fire in Dave with that special. Instead, it felt like something he was obligated to do. Please don't fizzle out Dave, you don't need to do anymore unless you feel it's going to be good.
The MJ stuff was already done flawlessly with "but he made Thriller. Thriller." Expanding on that over a decade later to say the same thing except worse is just bad.
I didn't feel any fire in Dave with that special. Instead, it felt like something he was obligated to do. Please don't fizzle out Dave, you don't need to do anymore unless you feel it's going to be good.
As a character in a skit he created/wrote. Since you were talking about context before, I thought it was pretty obvious the bit was about the creator being called out by the network.
Unless you're saying you believe a gay comedian wouldn't be allowed to have a straight character who's being lampooned in his own skit/show say the F-word.
Considering this isn't the first time he's brought up MJ, that's unlikely. And it certainly doesn't sound like a bit either. He just flat out says he doesn't believe them. There's no real joke to it, at all, during that segment.
Not that it matter, because whether it's a joke or bit or serious or anywhere in between, the damage is exactly the same and this is part of the reason it's so hard to come forward with accusations like that in the first place, being the object of ridicule and jokes and being mocked at every turn for doing something incredibly brave, sharing a terrible encounter you've had a person, despite you getting nothing out of it, despite the entire world not being likely to believe you at all and just thinking this of you or thinking that of you, but speaking up and sharing it anyway.
That would be a terribly difficult thing to do even in a completely accepting world, where we did believe each other and would never joke about something like that at all, given how terrible and harrowing and painful those experiences are in general and how painful it was to actually experience that in the first place and how sexual assault victims always talk about how just talking about it and remembering those moments in their lives involves doing just that, experiencing those most awful moments of their lives over and over and over again until everything is over.
That's hard enough, doing all that even if we were completely accepting. But then adding all the jokes and doubt and mistrust and the "you're a liar" and "even if you're not a liar, you must have liked it" on top of it... that also just makes it that much infinitely harder to come forward and endure all of that, which is incredibly difficult and brave even in a more perfect world, never mind the one we actually live in.
So no, I don't get this talking point of "it's just jokes tho" as that doesn't change the fact that whether they're jokes or he's serious or anywhere in between (and he does indeed appear to be quite serious during the MJ bits, which is the most messed up part, but even if he wasn't) as either way that still contributes to what makes it so hard for assault victims to come forward in the first place and puts that much more on their plate as if they don't have enough in their situations exactly, and I don't get why people act like it matters or changes anything at all or the least, because the damage is the same regardless, it still makes their lives that much harder and makes it that much harder to come forward in the first places, pieces of garbage will latch onto that stuff for dear life and use it as reasons not to believe assault victims and attack them and doubt them, and make their lives that much harder, so no, that doesn't change anything for me and I don't get why people act like it does, because it doesn't and the damage is the same regardless.
You just said the network would be opposed to a white person using the N-word- but that isn't the case. As demonstrated by the first episode.
Whether or not the network would allow a straight character to use the F-word if written by a Gay person is a hypothetical we have no preceding evidence to support or oppose.
The bit was about the creator catching the network in a gotcha- that they are selective about which minorities they allow to be demeaned. The overall conclusion was that there is a unwritten rule lampooning LGBT is a no-no.
There is no gotcha, because the network executive didn't tell him that white comedians are allowed to use the N word, or that gay comedians aren't allowed to use the F word.
And "but I'm not a n----" isn't a gotcha, because a gay person could say "but I'm not a f-----"
Oh, you know they're just asking questions and totally not victim shaming or anything.
I don't even know why I open these trash ass threads anymore.
i Agree. I thought it was quite obvious and was disappointed by the hollywoo reporter's clickbait title.
His car segment was pretty good, i thought.
Maybe 20% of his "osé" jokes fell flat or were more uncomfortable than funny basic. I recommend watching the epilogue for more on his thought process.
His take on CK was not good imho.
The network DID tell him that white comedians are allowed to use the N-word- by allowing white people to use the N-word on the network.
His point is that the n-word and f-word are both offensive - regardless of who's writing. Just because the writer is black and givea a white person the OK to say it, doesn't mean that a Black person observing won't be offended by it. Black people aren't some monolithic group when it comes to the word- but that's a risk the network was willing to take. A risk that he claims they wouldn't take with LGBT.
It's amazing if literally anyone else tried to pull some of the shit he says here most of his defenders wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot pole
Also for my own sanity I'm glad i didnt have to listen to Dave's homophobic skit get repeated on blast like 1000x a day
Also for my own sanity I'm glad i didnt have to listen to Dave's homophobic skit get repeated on blast like 1000x a day
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Unless he has proof that nobody was allowed to use the F-word on the network, there is no point. He only provided proof that he personally wasn't allowed to use it.
But at this point, this argument is like an atheist arguing with a young-earth creationist over evolution, so I guess we're done here.
Proof? He's not out to write a master thesis- he's trying to make people laugh about a non-falsifiable claim of inequity.
In reality- he's thrilled the network allowed white people to use the N-word, because it made him a fortune.
I'm sure many of the people here have, not to mention, many people who post here have posted in the already thread discussing the special.
My real question is what you were exactly after with your comment.
And no, not trying to accuse you of implying anything, but mostly just curious if there's a broader discussion you wanted to have.
My point is to watch the special to fully ascertain the comments he made in context. They are made in the very beginning of the special. Very early. I'm not defending him. I'm not supporting him. I think people need to witness things firsthand and then establish their argument.
Comedy is fucked up. Comedy is hilarious. They don't know the line until they cross it. Dave might learn a lot from his comments. He might not. But arguing against anyone without fully hearing them out is ignorant.
I dont know how I feel about Chappelle. I disagree with a lot of this shit. But a lot of it is funny. I don't know Dave. I'm not a black man. Point being, I can't fully understand where someone is coming from without walking in their shoes. I come from a place of immense inherint privelige. It's very confusing. But I appreciate the fact that we're talking about things and questioning things further.
I just wish people don't rush to grab their pitch forks before getting a fuller perspective. I'll be honest I saw the THR headline and was pissed. But then I was more the eager to watch the special. It's all just so fucking confusing. But let's talk to one another before we start screaming. With all our chips laid out.
I mean, it's a pattern of behavior for the guy, he knew where the line was from all the people who said please don't do that. And he did it anyways.
But he's also a comedian who's made a career of being controversial. He's not a paragon of society.
You don't have to be a paragon of society to not say bigoted stuff, that's like the base level of human decency that should be expected as the norm.
I've asked like 3 times now and nobody has been able to explain this magical context that makes "joking" about disbelieving victims and telling people not to watch Leaving Neverland justified.
No, I'm not going to watch this special because there are some lines you don't cross. Joking about which child you're going to fuck is one of them.
There really is a defense force for everything here, but it doesn't surprise me after the filth that came from the MJ threads.
No, I'm not going to watch this special because there are some lines you don't cross. Joking about which child you're going to fuck is one of them.
There really is a defense force for everything here, but it doesn't surprise me after the filth that came from the MJ threads.
Just watched, not his best stuff by a long shot but it was ok. I find it more hysterical people take a comedians bit at face value. Like everyone is literally proving his point. He's not an idiot, he knew exactly what he was doing and the outrage that would come from it.
you're not going to get a satisfactory answer, because it all depends on your personal philosophy on what is "out of bounds" for comedy.
Sure, Louie has a crowd too, after all.
I think a good moral indicator, in this context, is the alt-right cheering him on.
Pretty cool company
I like Dave's work but this special felt like he was him getting off on "triggering people", knowing he won't face repercussions. Which is fine as long as it's funny, but some bits just weren't.
If you're going to go at trans people and defend Louis yet again, at least have a new take. Those particular bits were just lazy and felt like weaker rehashes of his previous bits on those topics - though I did laugh at his impression of Louis laying there with jizz on his stomach.
On a somewhat related note, I felt his call to action for Black Americans didn't hit as hard as it should've. I also enjoyed the crack vs heroin bit. But it's definitely his weakest effort, in my opinion.
If you're going to go at trans people and defend Louis yet again, at least have a new take. Those particular bits were just lazy and felt like weaker rehashes of his previous bits on those topics - though I did laugh at his impression of Louis laying there with jizz on his stomach.
On a somewhat related note, I felt his call to action for Black Americans didn't hit as hard as it should've. I also enjoyed the crack vs heroin bit. But it's definitely his weakest effort, in my opinion.
I dont like the quotes but ... theyre quotes from a comedy special. Theres a difference between a performance and an interview or even a statement.
He is picking a very difficult and very dangerous space to make comedy, but thats also a comedians job, to tackle the sensitive topics in a way that allows us to find the humor in them. Im not saying he's succeeding but this stuff is never going to sound funny in quotes on a message board.
Anyways, I havent watched anything Chapelle related since he said victims of #MeToo had a brittle spirit so dont think Im defending him, but I do recognize hes playing a character on stage and a big percentage of this is satire.
He is picking a very difficult and very dangerous space to make comedy, but thats also a comedians job, to tackle the sensitive topics in a way that allows us to find the humor in them. Im not saying he's succeeding but this stuff is never going to sound funny in quotes on a message board.
Anyways, I havent watched anything Chapelle related since he said victims of #MeToo had a brittle spirit so dont think Im defending him, but I do recognize hes playing a character on stage and a big percentage of this is satire.
If they haven't adjusted to the time period's culture they won't be the top standup's any longer.
Saying plainly bigoted shit isn't satire. And good satire punches up, not down. All these shithead comedians ever do is punch down while hiding behind excuses and delusions of grandeur about being some kind of modern-day truthtellers. The fact that it doesn't work as satire is plainly obvious when you look at the kinds of people who just agree with what he says and take it at face value.
Tired of shitty jokes being defended as satire. Get some new material for christ's sake.
Do you have any examples?
People don't always choose their audiences and what certain audiences will latch onto. I still hear the Chris |Rock 'Black vs Nigger' joke told by white people and they use it to justify their racism. I doubt Rock had that in mind when he told the joke, I doubt he thought some white people would latch onto it the way they did, but they did. I don't blame him for that or think he shouldn't have told the joke, I blame those who heard it and thought it was anything more than an edgy joke.
Y'all saying his shit about trans people, gay people, and Michael Jackson's victims are just a bit or just a joke, what about the cogent shit he had to say about abortion and gun control? Or are y'all just gonna pick and choose however you see fit?
Also nobody's talking about the second half because everyone knows when Chappelle isn't trying to rile people up he's boring as shit. Dude's lost his mojo completely. Imagine defending this loser and his sad act when there's SO MUCH great comedy to be found elsewhere. Fucking lmao
Also nobody's talking about the second half because everyone knows when Chappelle isn't trying to rile people up he's boring as shit. Dude's lost his mojo completely. Imagine defending this loser and his sad act when there's SO MUCH great comedy to be found elsewhere. Fucking lmao
Oh come on you can't be serious.
It couldn't be any more obvious that that comment, above all, is a complete joke and obviously not something he actually believes.
The guy made jokes about MJ and the kids years ago how MJ was "being a good host" and how his own friends don't even offer him grape drink, "let alone gettin' my dick sucked!".
People might take offense to it, but don't take it seriously. They are clear as day outlandish comments/jokes. He doesn't mean that shit.
As for the other stuff he said, I dunno what he believes, but I can guarantee you "you should feel honored to be molested by a huge celebrity" is an obvious joke.
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I mean, he said that if women should have the right to choose, then men should have the right to abandon their kids w/o taking a financial hit. Surely that's not the cogent part you're talking about.
You absolutely have to pick and choose, because some of it is direct commentary, some of it is satire, and some of intentionally absurd. I see people are struggling mightily trying to determine which comments fit into which category. If you're the type of person who thinks all of the act needs to be taken at face value or none of it, then you're predestined to have an awful time.
Like, do people truly believes that he feels kids getting raped by MJ should feel honored? Do people truly believe that when he hears about kids being molested he questions what those kids were wearing at the time? Is it not clear that the point of these comments is the absurdity - they can't be digested the same way as Him saying a movement of Black people registering firearms is the only way to get gun reform laws.
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