You were so close to getting why people are turning on him but it flew right past you.
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Hollywood Reporter: Dave Chappelle Slams Michael Jackson Accusers and "Cancel Culture" in Netflix Special
- Thread starter Deleted member 3812
- Start date
- Status
It should. Hopefully at the least he's gotten the hint and removes this bit from his act moving forward.
Maybe I'm giving Dave too much credit, but I didn't take the bit about not believing the MJ accusers as totally literal. I took it as him joking about the extremes of victim blaming and rationalization he wants to indulge in order in order to protect the emotional investment he has in certain people (e.g. MJ), even in the face of overwhelming evidence. Essentially the same underlying joke as the Celebrity Trial Jury Selection bit from Chappelle's Show.
Maybe I'm wrong; I don't know.
Maybe I'm wrong; I don't know.
The last time that happened he walked away, this time he's encouraging it
Last time I laughed this much during a special was either Bill Burr or Ari Shaffir.
He didn't defend him. He says he doesn't even know the guy. Can't go around and besmirch someone based on what majority people are saying.
Side note, this sticks and stones is probably his funniest well put comedy of Dave chappelles in a while.
Like the whole thing of the lady telling him why he can't use the F word yet he asks why he can say the N word with impunity. Hilarious.
I mean, he's clearly trying to rile people up with these kinds of politically incorrect jokes because he thinks it's funny riling people up with these kinds of politically incorrect jokes. The shit he's saying (from the OP) is pretty messed up and I disagree with him, but it also seems like he's just trying to be the guy who just says whatever the fuck he wants just to get a reaction from people, which is in and of itself the joke.
"Moment of introspection" - you mean that $50 million contract Chappelle shredded? And fuck Michael Jackson. I've said that since 2002. The entirely candid comments made here were 1000000% worse than any comedy routine. But I don't line item #cancel every comedian, acquaintance, or Era user here who ever had Jackson's back. People were sincerely defending him as recently as a few months ago and now everyone is on the bandwagon. It's not like that doc had any new info, really.
Don't condescend to me. I understand exactly why people are turning on Chappelle. I disagree with the level of outrage given the offense.
Ah, so are you suggesting that random posters on Era have the same reach and platform as pedo-defender & noted anti-LGBTQ "comedian" Chappelle does?
There is a careful and respectful discussion that could be had about "cancel culture" and preemptively destroying people's careers before the legal system has had its day in court...
...but what Chappelle said here is vile and inexcusable. Fuck his take. Fuck what he said about victims of rape
...but what Chappelle said here is vile and inexcusable. Fuck his take. Fuck what he said about victims of rape
I struggle to understand the outrage over "cancel culture". Isn't this just a cutesy term for people being allowed to make their personal decisions about who they associate with and/or financially support, and then using their right to free speech to encourage others to do the same? What is the proposed alternative to "cancel culture"?
How is that actually insightful, the common understanding is slurs of which you are the target of are yours to use but not ones you are not part of. Again they'd ask Bob Saget not to use either, and they'd ask a White Gay Comedian not to use the N word.... It's not a salient point it's bullshit designed to make it ok for him to use homophobic slurs.
The idea that slurs used against you are fair game, and slurs used against other marginalized groups,that you are not a part of, are not is just common sense... but here he is twisting it to make it sound like asking him not to be homophobic is oppression against him.
Full on if he had been asked not to use the N word the piece would be about how dare they try to tell me what to do with a word used against my people,,, and he'd be right to be pissed... since they didn't, he wants to act like they didn't respect him by not asking to stop using it... which again is mostly just so he can feel moral about saying the F word a bunch.
On Broadway he then used that as proof the Gays run Hollywood:
No, but it demonstrates how very common place it was to believe Michael Jackson only a few months ago and this level outrage is odd given it's a purposefully offensive comedy routine. Again, I gotta say - fuck Michael Jackson. But where were you guys the last 20 years, especially given this isn't Dave's first defense of MJ.
That bit isn't as clever as you think it is, unless white gay comedians are allowed to say both the F-word and the N-word. And they could make the same response Dave did if the situation were reversed: "Well, I'm not a f-----"
Speaking for myself, I've felt Jackson was guilty for many years. I can't speak for anyone else, but you know it's almost as if people learn and grow as they get more information. Unless you're Chappelle then you double down on being a shitty person.
dunno about you but I'm bookmarking posts with choice quotes from bill burr, just saw a doozy of one in another thread
At least Bill Burr constantly re-iterates he's an out of touch angry dumbass.
My understanding is that the "outrage" is partly because a minority of the "cancel culture" will doxx (get them fired from their job, post their address, full name, etc) and harass the person accused of the wrongdoing before all evidence of said wrongdoing is found or before they are found guilty in the court of law.
love that every big comedy special for the last few years is some old guy moaning about people telling him he's a dumb ass on twitter or whatever
How is noting 2 subjects that he talked about a spoiler??
Jesus why did I wait this long to put you on my ignore list?
Do you have any thoughts on the discussion that is emcompassing the majority of the thread you've entered?
I just want to point out that the reviewer for Vice did not enjoy the special. Chapelle is so pointlessly edgy even Vice, fucking Vice, the we-did-coke-with-Ukranian-paramilitary-forces-allied-with-Russia kinds of guys, won't carry his shit.
Well, that kind of kind of behavior absolutely moves into the realm of extremely dicey ethical territory, but I guess I'm looking at the situation specifically as it pertains to "cancel culture" in regards to celebrities, as Chappelle seems to be referencing with this bit. Michael Jackson isn't some random 7-11 employee in a minute long youtube video, he was one of the biggest, wealthiest celebrities on the planet, with access to the best legal team money could buy. That fact that Chappelle seeming first moral concern is to call out the individual consumer who personally chooses to disavow Jackson, or any other similarly accused celebrity, rather than on the Individual accused of predatory behavior just seems to me like a horrifically skewed set of standards and assumptions.
Can we stop with the edgy 00's comedian netflix specials, please? It just makes me sad.
I mean, I tried to watch a Ricky Gervais one from 1-2 years ago (basically just being familiar with The Office & Extras) that started off with equating transitioning to becoming a chimp, followed by dead baby jokes and "Cancer!" and "AIDS!" -type punchlines. I felt like I had been sucked into a fucking time vortex.
Like, when I was a shitty 20-something in the 00's, some of this was funny to me too, but in a shock-value, anti-religious right, anti-Bush administration type way... but it's like all these peeps not only can't evolve as people and as comedians, but actively lash out at the world for moving on.
I mean, I tried to watch a Ricky Gervais one from 1-2 years ago (basically just being familiar with The Office & Extras) that started off with equating transitioning to becoming a chimp, followed by dead baby jokes and "Cancer!" and "AIDS!" -type punchlines. I felt like I had been sucked into a fucking time vortex.
Like, when I was a shitty 20-something in the 00's, some of this was funny to me too, but in a shock-value, anti-religious right, anti-Bush administration type way... but it's like all these peeps not only can't evolve as people and as comedians, but actively lash out at the world for moving on.
Honest question can raw comedy exist in this day in age?
Richard Pryor...
Eddie Murphy...
Patrice O'Neal...
This dudes would get pitch forked these days.
Richard Pryor...
Eddie Murphy...
Patrice O'Neal...
This dudes would get pitch forked these days.
I'm extremely glad the tide of public opinion has turned on Jackson. But there was really no new information in that doc. So all this "growing" many former defenders have made is largely bullshit. It's just personal social PR.
If Chappelle came out as a Beatles fan right now nobody would give a shit. But if HBO did a doc on their wife beating 3 months before a special and he made a joke about it - people would be losing their shit all over again.
I also "loved" the part when he blamed the #MeToo movement for the increasingly barbaric rollback of abortion laws in red states.
Yes....that surely is the culprit. Conservatives surely wouldn't be fighting to take away the rights of women if they weren't speaking up about their sexual assaults...
Yes....that surely is the culprit. Conservatives surely wouldn't be fighting to take away the rights of women if they weren't speaking up about their sexual assaults...
The world was a different place 8 years ago when Patrice died, let alone the 80s and 70s. Using different eras of comedy to defend bad jokes is pointless.
The "joke" is the absurdity of the proliferation and normalization of pedophilia and rape in our culture. Chappelle shtick has always been to ironically showcase what would otherwise be depressing or Suisun topics. Some people find humor in that.
That kids should be thrilled to get sexually assaulted by MJ is the punchline. The joke is that so many people are victimized - typically by people they know and should be able to trust - that having a celebrity to it would be a welcome deviation from a disappointing norm. It's absurd for effect.
I'm unsure of what his actual stance on MJs guilt is becuase I recognize that he's putting on an act at least as much as he's sharing his actual though processes. but personal opinion wasn't the actual point of the bit - The point was to find humor otherwise disturbing hot topics.
Last edited:
Has the tide of opinion turned on Michael Jackson? I dont think it has. I just heard a song of his on the radio MTV still has their most prestigious award named after him, and come halloween Thriller will still be played on BET/MTV/ at halloween parties. I think the turning tide on MJ is overblown.
He was pitchforked back in the day. But nobody listened to gay people in Reagan's america.
Yeah I can imagine this routine not going over well in 2019, on the other hand some posters in here would probably defend him punching down because "that's jokes" or something
yeah this is what i like about Bill. doesn't really seem like hes punching down. and from listening to his podcast for a few years he definitely changed some things he now recognizes were problematic. i love his podcast reads.
Not really. And this is an incredibly cynical take imo. We hadn't heard the first hand accounts of Jackson's victims with this thoroughness and emotion. That was definitely new.
And simply take a look at the Leaving Neverland thread right on these forums and count the number of Jackson fans who had their eyes opened from the doc. You might not like that people have come around late but it has literally nothing to do with what you're calling "personal social PR" and everything to do with people becoming more informed.
This point I will concede. I do wish more people would consider what evils are being reinforced when celebrating someone like Michael Jackson.
You've got people in this very thread whinging about Netflix giving him a platform.
Everyone is free to make their own decision about what they view/support/listen to/play etc. 'Cancel culture' is about people wanting to make that decision for everyone else by haranguing the platforms that make that content available to them. Sometimes that outrage is based on the content itself, and sometimes it's based around a couple of 10 year old tweets.
You have the freedom to shit on Chappelle publicly, implore others not to watch and educate them as to why. That's been going on since time began. What people think is going too far, is insisting that nobody should have that option because it offends your personal sensibilities.
I dunno if it's him out of touch so much that he's just not as funny as he used to be.
I was a fan of Jackson as a kid. Not like I had posters on the wall or anything, but I bought and listened to the cassettes, rented the Moonwalker VHS a few times, played the Sega game, really liked that Simpsons episode, remember watching the live concert on HBO in '92 (?), etc etc.
By the time I was old enough to understand what the allegations actually entailed, or became old enough to understand that a lack of criminal conviction didn't equal innocence, Jackson was no longer relevant to me. I was busy discovering Nine Inch Nails or whatever.
For over a decade after that, all Jackson meant to me had to do with a handful of nostalgic songs and music videos. I had no impetus to consider him as a person or all the controversy around him. So, I'm thankful for the publicity leading up to the release of the doc getting my attention.
HOWEVER... I was never a defender, though, it just wasn't on my radar. I don't even understand how anyone could look at all the facts that have been available for all these years and still fucking buy that he was some sort of impossible innocent childlike being. Yeah, I heard he "he never had a childhood" etc explanations for his behavior... and didn't question it...when I was a damn child. Like you said, the facts aren't really new. So, I don't really understand how someone that claims to have really known the facts beforehand could be turned around by the doc.
I can't argue. I'm a cynical person.
However, the evidence against Michael Jackson was crystal clear pre HBO doc. That "thoroughness and emotion" was old information in a new package. Hell, I don't even know if you can call that aspect new given the 2002 doc.
I don't think the tide of opinion is turning in all demographics of the country, let's just say that. That series of jokes was an attempt to make a joke out of the most vile shit you can say (his joke about the prestige he'd get from molesting a certain child actor if he were a pedophile put that whole series of jokes obviously over the top and on that level to me). It reminded me of a couple of the molestation jokes Tina Fey told in Bossypants, one that was directly an example of how one might successfully tell a joke about a vile subject. It was intentionally an attempt to tell a gross series of jokes about a fucked up topic and to troll the audience doing so.
Anyway, some other stuff about some points that people are making in the thread that I thought were interesting points: The Comedy Central thing joke was a perfect example of how white people, even those with the best intentions, care more about how people they are more able to identify with (gay folks if those gay folks are white) are portrayed or talked about than people they can't identify with because of skin color. He's told a lot of jokes about this, with varying degrees of success, that are about how whiteness gives people who are in another maligned minority more support and understanding if than they were black and also gay or trans or what have you.
I mean, he went and said that R. Kelly probably did that shit and then did a joke about how he should have covered for himself when he made all those sex tapes that were used against him as evidence. His joke about not being in the documentary was that he didn't know R. Kelly (and the implication is that he was irritated that he was even asked just because he did those R. Kelly skits on Chappelle's Show).
- Status