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Deleted member 48897

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Nobody is making you watch anything.

This is dumb. The worst thing that happens if someone like myself or RedMercury put this on is we waste an hour of our time on yet another contrived, unfunny Chapelle special. I'm more worried about the effect watching something like this would be on some dumbass teenager who doesn't understand the problem with these jokes, grows up to internalize it, and becomes, I dunno, an internet weirdo devoid of empathy
 

thediamondage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,236
What a difference since this thread

is it really? I remember a few posters in the last few Chapelle threads would post a massive image of why Chappelle should be boycotted, literally half the thread would be that image by the same poster. It was almost impossible to discuss the special itself. At least that doesn't seem to be happening now.

I'll watch this special and make up my own mind, i do kinda find it ironic that there are so many twitter posts and news articles written about how his new special is ugly but that would seem to be just driving people to watch it in a "whats going on" kind of way. I didn't even realize it was being released today until I saw some of those tweets.

It'll definitely be interesting to see what kind of numbers netflix releases about this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,663
This is dumb. The worst thing that happens if someone like myself or RedMercury put this on is we waste an hour of our time on yet another contrived, unfunny Chapelle special. I'm more worried about the effect watching something like this would be on some dumbass teenager who doesn't understand the problem with these jokes, grows up to internalize it, and becomes, I dunno, an internet weirdo devoid of empathy
if a teenager becomes an internet weirdo devoid of empathy it isn't because he/she saw a Chappelle special on Netflix, its because of their parents, friends, teachers, etc.
 

Palocca

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22
This is dumb. The worst thing that happens if someone like myself or RedMercury put this on is we waste an hour of our time on yet another contrived, unfunny Chapelle special. I'm more worried about the effect watching something like this would be on some dumbass teenager who doesn't understand the problem with these jokes, grows up to internalize it, and becomes, I dunno, an internet weirdo devoid of empathy

How is that any different from a teenager playing violent video games?
 

Middleman

Banned
Jun 14, 2019
928
This is dumb. The worst thing that happens if someone like myself or RedMercury put this on is we waste an hour of our time on yet another contrived, unfunny Chapelle special. I'm more worried about the effect watching something like this would be on some dumbass teenager who doesn't understand the problem with these jokes, grows up to internalize it, and becomes, I dunno, an internet weirdo devoid of empathy
"Think of the worst thing that could happen" is not a good argument.

Advocating that something be denied a platform because of how a minority element might misinterpret it is silly.
 

Deleted member 48897

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Oct 22, 2018
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Advocating that something be denied a platform because of how a minority element might misinterpret it is silly.

The fuck does this mean?


How is that any different from a teenager playing violent video games?

Bro. The effects of the normalization of violence in media are broad, and can have harmful effects that aren't on the level of what weirdos like Sen. Lieberman were claiming back in the 90s. I think we can ask how media contextualizes issues and informs people about them without having to call in the government to ban shit or whatever.


In any case, I invite both posters to consider the fact that 13 Reasons Why, another Netflix thing, had been sparking suicidal ideation among youth.
 

Deleted member 48897

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There's a straw man waiting in the sky
He'd like to come and meet us
But he thinks he'd blow our minds

Read the comment again. Chapelle may not have bought weed from a kid or whatever your example was but the idea that Michael Jackson didn't have a pattern of grooming children, trying to gain their parents' trust, exposing them to inappropriate material, and isolating them -- that's not something that you can argue.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Like I don't have a problem with people thinking Chappelle is outdated or that his work supposedly doesn't "work" in this day and age, but this idea that he should just stop being Chappelle is ludicrous (and this is from people who SWEAR they love The Chappelle Show, which was far more juvenile than anything Dave has done recently).



He also dropped the N-bomb multiple times but that's not slotted into any headlines. In fact he has a joke about THAT as well in the special.
Oh he's gay now? Or part of LGTBQ culture in general?


Of course his show from 10+ years ago is gonna be outdated. The thing is times have changed drastically in regards to how more people view this sort of stuff and he hasn't learned anything. It'a absolutely ridiculous that you think him getting a clue in regards to lgbtq issues or sexual assault (that are at the best terrible jokes but more likely he actually believes this stuff for how often it STILL comes up for him) would make him "not Chappelle". God forbids he fucking learns a thing from other people.
 

travisbickle

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,953
He's been doing some form of the Michael Jackson routine for years. Just chose however you want to read it to make you feel whatever you want to feel.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
22,427
Maybe the lesson from "Why is it ok to laugh at racist jokes but not sexist or homophobic jokes" should be "Oh, it's not ok to laugh at those either" rather than "It's ok to laugh at everything". It's well documented that jokes of these types of natures can have serious psychological affects on the populations being made fun of
 

Deleted member 11413

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22,961
As a victim of sexual abuse as a minor, I find any jokes about the subject to be tasteless and triggering. I can't watch most any Netflix comedy special without being triggered, because these types of jokes are apparently a mainstay of stand up comedy. Even so, I recognize that this is my personal problem, and can see why some people might find humor in something so horrible (and even how some victims cope using humor).

That said, there is nothing about these comments that are remotely funny. There is no punchline. It's just saying something fucked up and degrading for the sake of it. I hate seeing this shit. Makes me feel horrible. I'm guessing it's the same way trans people feel when he makes similar, punchline-less 'jokes' about trans people.
 

TheModestGun

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Dec 5, 2017
3,781
Maybe the lesson from "Why is it ok to laugh at racist jokes but not sexist or homophobic jokes" should be "Oh, it's not ok to laugh at those either" rather than "It's ok to laugh at everything". It's well documented that jokes of these types of natures can have serious psychological affects on the populations being made fun of
I mean this in earnest. Can you cite these studies please. I see a lot of talk about this, but every media study I've ever read seems to conclude something very different than what I see implied in here.
 
May 26, 2018
23,999
It was obvious from the first ten minutes that Dave has embraced the regressive tone of an aging white man, which I'd hoped was just a passing phase in his prior Netfix specials. I feel like I'm watching the sad decline of a once great artist.

It's probably more like he's from a particular point in time where comedians felt like the entire world needed to be taken down a peg. Where things like South Park were seen as extremely smart and relevant. I was sort of a part of that time when I was young. I was raised into it. The surface feeling was this: breaking everything down was fun because everyone else was self-important and full of shit. Why did we really do it, though?

Was it because we were living too long in relative peace? Or the illusion of relative peace, maybe. As if it's hard to care about anyone if you think everything is a lie.

Even so, if pressed, the defense was generally "it's just comedy, don't take it so seriously." Okay, but where's all that coming from? That feeling? That need? What part of your mind are your words actually revealing?

Why did George Carlin look at disasters and think, "I should joke that I find this hilarious and amazing"? As cheesy and corny as they seemed to many then, why did people actually make fun of Captain Planet and Arbor Day and all that?

When Dave Chapelle jokes he would rape Macaulay Culkin first, who is it for? The average guy? Is he saying, "these stories put a strain on you, society says they should make you feel uncomfortable. I know you hate feeling this way, or feeling like there's pressure to, so come to me. I'll tear its importance down and make you laugh along with others. By accepting the deconstruction of taboos alongside hundreds or thousands of people in a crowd, I'll let you build the unspoken social permission to dismiss the pain of the world. Even enjoy it. Because the alternative is a drag."

Perhaps it's a mistake to think it's all jaded altruism. It could be selfish. As if the one who can't possibly forget all this is the comedian, who makes other people laugh so he can have the space to laugh too. That's why failure to get laughs feels so much like death, because the comedian feels like they're on death row. The universe feels hollow and terrifying, and the person has torn out some desperate part of themselves to show to a crowd and say, "On the top I seem cool, but look at how this shit actually eats me up, please understand, please make it alright, please help me," and a silent hall means there's nowhere to escape their own thoughts.

Maybe this breed of comedians succeeded en masse at a time when we were all becoming cognizant of how many bad things there were -- as we were connecting more with the world -- and at first wanted edgy humor to cope, to have all this shit in the world stop screaming in our ears that "you should give a damn." That way we could properly ignore them, focus on our own lives like always, and pretend our world would spin on. Maybe as our world actually spins on, it's getting harder and harder to want fantasy when we see where effort to preserve the status quo leads.

Or maybe Dave Chapelle is just a douche.

Christ, I'm talking out of my ass! I'm probably coming at this from a naive angle. "Baby's First Philosophy Regarding Comedy."

But I can't stop feeling that discussing this is right. What is one to do when the once-funny feels wrong?

 

Buddy1103

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Jan 8, 2019
540
It was obvious from the first ten minutes that Dave has embraced the regressive tone of an aging white man, which I'd hoped was just a passing phase in his prior Netfix specials. I feel like I'm watching the sad decline of a once great artist.

couldn't find the words but this is exactly what i was thinking while watching it. i even said out loud ''damnit hes getting old'' while watching. even his previous netflix specials had better jokes about these subjects that talked about his own shortcomings with these things and ended with him saying if his jokes make you harass someone then you're a piece of shit and shouldn't fuck with him anymore. this special has the opposite tone of hey you can't handle it durhhh cancel culture durhhhh (as he would put it, from one of his bits)
 

Deleted member 4532

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Yeah, I honestly couldn't get past the first 10 minutes or so. Will try again later tonight but as soon as he started saying he didn't believe any of Michael's accusers I was out.
 

Aaronrules380

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Oct 25, 2017
22,427
I mean this in earnest. Can you cite these studies please. I see a lot of talk about this, but every media study I've ever read seems to conclude something very different than what I see implied in here.
From the introduction it also mentions other papers that have documented negative effects
Empirical evidence has documented the negative effects of discrimination across a broad range of outcomes, including increased anxiety (e.g., Gaylord-Harden & Cunningham, 2009) and depressive symptoms (e.g., English, Lambert, & Ialongo, 2014; Seaton & Douglass, 2014), decreased self-esteem (e.g., Armenta & Hunt, 2009), and lower academic outcomes (e.g., Chavous, Rivas-Drake, Smalls, Griffin, & Cogburn, 2008). Amid evidence of these negative effects, attention in the literature has considered the source of discrimination for adolescents, with particular attention paid to discrimination from peers versus adults (Fisher, Wallace, & Fenton, 2000). The effects of peer discrimination may be particularly pernicious during adolescence given developmental tendencies to place increased emphasis on peer feedback and acceptance (Erikson, 1968; Savin-Williams & Berndt, 1990). Indeed, research finds that adolescents internalize negative messages about their ethnicity/race from peers differently than from adults. For example, Rivas-Drake, Hughes, and Way (2009) found that among a diverse group of adolescents, discrimination from peers, but not from adults, was associated with personal views about their ethnic group (i.e., private regard). Similarly, Greene and colleagues (2006) found that peer discrimination had greater mental health implications than did adult discrimination among Black, Latino, and Asian American adolescents. Other research has suggested that the influence of peer- versus adult-based discrimination may be domain-specific; among Black, Latino, and Asian American adolescents, peer discrimination was associated with psychological maladjustment, whereas discrimination from school personnel was associated with poor academic performance (Benner & Graham, 2013). In sum, it appears that peers can constitute a unique and meaningful source of discrimination for adolescents.
 

Palocca

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22
The fuck does this mean?




Bro. The effects of the normalization of violence in media are broad, and can have harmful effects that aren't on the level of what weirdos like Sen. Lieberman were claiming back in the 90s. I think we can ask how media contextualizes issues and informs people about them without having to call in the government to ban shit or whatever.


In any case, I invite both posters to consider the fact that 13 Reasons Why, another Netflix thing, had been sparking suicidal ideation among youth.

I'm not arguing the fact that consuming certain types of media can play a role in shaping a person's ideologies. But there are so many other factors that are at play.

I took your initial comment as if you were propagating content regulation which is what I don't agree with. I think it's great, and even necessary to have dialogue about how media can shape us.
 

Middleman

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Jun 14, 2019
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OK. I'd also like to address the larger quote.



What's being misinterpreted here? What's the point he's trying to make with his joke about Michael Jackson?
Misinterpret is probably the wrong word.

Most people can hear a crass joke or comment in the context of stand-up comedy and dismiss it as just that. The more people who choose to respond to that sort of content by tuning out, the sooner it's marginalised and disappears.

The possibility for some teenage asshole to hear it and think 'yeah, I totally agree!' is not a valid reason for it to be denied a platform altogether.
 

Aaronrules380

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Oct 25, 2017
22,427
Have you seen the special? It clearly worked for that crowd; which again, isn't some regressive far-right crowd.



To be shockingly funny?
Making people laugh at the expense of groups who are discriminated against should be looked down on. It's absolutely dangerous and harmful to society to normalize these types of jokes and attitudes and just because it's "not his job" to care about those effects doesn't change that. Should we stop criticizing oil company CEO's for destroying the planet since they're also just "doing their job"?
 

Deleted member 48897

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Misinterpret is probably the wrong word.

Most people can hear a crass joke or comment in the context of stand-up comedy and dismiss it as just that. The more people who choose to respond to that sort of content by tuning out, the sooner it's marginalised and disappears.

The possibility for some teenage asshole to hear it and think 'yeah, I totally agree!' is not a valid reason for it to be denied a platform altogether.

OK. What's the point he's trying to make with that joke?
 

Surfinn

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I don't think people realize that it's not just literally alt-right crowds that laugh at shitty, regressive content.
 

Aaronrules380

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Oct 25, 2017
22,427
Misinterpret is probably the wrong word.

Most people can hear a crass joke or comment in the context of stand-up comedy and dismiss it as just that. The more people who choose to respond to that sort of content by tuning out, the sooner it's marginalised and disappears.

The possibility for some teenage asshole to hear it and think 'yeah, I totally agree!' is not a valid reason for it to be denied a platform altogether.
The fact that it can lead to major issues like a loss of self esteem in even a few individuals is absolutely a reason for us to discourage this type of humor. Saying it's ok for even a handful of people to be hurt for the sake of a few laughs is disgusting
 

Deleted member 59339

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2005 Dave needs to sit 2019 Dave down for a talk.

zVmt9tk.jpg
 

ANDS

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User Banned (1 Month): Dismissing Concerns on Transphobia and Inflammatory False Equivalence Surrounding Homophobic Slurs Over Multiple Posts; Account in Junior Phase
Making people laugh at the expense of groups who are discriminated against should be looked down on. It's absolutely dangerous and harmful to society to normalize these types of jokes and attitudes and just because it's "not his job" to care about those effects doesn't change that. Should we stop criticizing oil company CEO's for destroying the planet since they're also just "doing their job"?

I'm just going to say that this special (and the last show I saw him at) was spectacularly mild compared to Chappelle's "heyday" (which people seem to be lauding as when he was at the top of his game). The MJ jokes were rough, as they were meant to be, but none of the LGBTQ jokes (all five minutes of it) were anything that I would be willing to draw a line connected to the normalizing trans/homophobia.
 

Deleted member 3896

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The thing that really throws me is seeing posts from folks who seem to conceptualize themselves as progressive or leftists defending this retrograde, homophobic, sexist, victim-bashing garbage.
 

Middleman

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Jun 14, 2019
928
OK. What's the point he's trying to make with that joke?
First, it's irrelevant.

Second, it doesn't necessarily have or need a point. "Those kids probably liked being molested by MJ" is absurdist humour. I don't like it or think it's a joke that particularly lands but the 'point' is the shock value a la The Aristocrats.

Sometimes it's as simple as that.
 
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