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Hollow Knight is a masterpiece
- Thread starter black070
- Start date
Yea, I agree. I think the map system is unfairly criticized.
The only part of the game that felt a bit shoe-horned in was the death mechanic copying the Souls series. I didn't think that added anything.
100%. Finally a metroidvania that isn't scared of letting the player explore and get lost.
It really is a masterpiece. I see Silksong doing really well during the awards season, If Botw 2 doesn't release this year and Silksong does and lives up to the hype.
They are pretty screwed tbh. Their first game was such a big hit, they'll never be able to live up to it.
I honestly hope they start doing different stuff or else they will forever be bound to "Hollow Knight/Silksong/X did it better" pseudofranchise comparisons and never have space for new and interesting ideas.
I honestly hope they start doing different stuff or else they will forever be bound to "Hollow Knight/Silksong/X did it better" pseudofranchise comparisons and never have space for new and interesting ideas.
I played Hollow Knight for the first time on Switch last year and adored it. Then I played through it all again (and more with the Godhome DLC) when it hit Playstation Plus. One of my favourite games of the past few years for sure.
They confirmed they're working on something different after Silksong in last month's EDGE article. Though it sounds like it could inherit some of the same characteristics.
I'm currently going through a second playthrough of Hollow Knight and it's probably the closest to a "perfect" game I've experienced this generation. It's absolutely wonderful in every way.
My playthrough of Hollow Knight was one of the best gaming experiences I've ever had. It felt like the entire world was a massive puzzle box just begging to be solved and figuring out how to get the best ending without using a guide made me feel like an explorer uncovering the secrets of a lost kingdom. I really love how the game doesn't hold your hand and just leaves it up to you to figure out how you want to explore each area, and it always felt like there were a ton of cool secrets just off the beaten path for you to find. Seriously, if you see a wall that you think is suspicious, try hitting it and chances are that you'll find a hidden room. Or maybe even uncover an entirely new area for you to explore, hidden just out of sight. Hollow Knight rewards paying attention to your surroundings and good exploration in a very satisfying way.
The game's atmosphere is also incredible. I remember my first journey into Deepnest and just being so unsettled at how alive it felt. It's dark and cramped and confusing and just teeming with life. It feels like you have stumbled into an incredibly dangerous ecosystem, and you are at the very bottom of the food chain. Which makes the moment where you stumble upon the one room of peace and respite in such an unforgiving area that much more impactful. For a game with such fast-paced combat encounters and an often unsettling atmosphere, Hollow Knight also manages to find many moments of quiet beauty where you can just breathe easy and reflect on your journey for a moment.
All in all, Hollow Knight is one of my favorite games. It's not perfect, but I think that it is so incredibly successful at what it sets out to do that those flaws are pretty minor in the grand scheme of things. As someone who loves exploring spaces in games, Hollow Knight was an incredibly gripping and satisfying experience from start to finish. It is indeed a masterpiece.
The game's atmosphere is also incredible. I remember my first journey into Deepnest and just being so unsettled at how alive it felt. It's dark and cramped and confusing and just teeming with life. It feels like you have stumbled into an incredibly dangerous ecosystem, and you are at the very bottom of the food chain. Which makes the moment where you stumble upon the one room of peace and respite in such an unforgiving area that much more impactful. For a game with such fast-paced combat encounters and an often unsettling atmosphere, Hollow Knight also manages to find many moments of quiet beauty where you can just breathe easy and reflect on your journey for a moment.
All in all, Hollow Knight is one of my favorite games. It's not perfect, but I think that it is so incredibly successful at what it sets out to do that those flaws are pretty minor in the grand scheme of things. As someone who loves exploring spaces in games, Hollow Knight was an incredibly gripping and satisfying experience from start to finish. It is indeed a masterpiece.
Eh, it's pretty good but it' way too long. Backtracking is a hassle. I've never been a fan of the art style.
The map sucks.
The map sucks.
Wish I could get into it since I really like the art style. I just don't like being lost so I put it down.
Can't speak for everyone, but for me getting lost in a video game is one of the top 3 least fun things that can happen to me in a game.
This is the first time I have heard the first 4-5 hours are kind of a slog. Maybe I'll give this game another go and just use a 1 to 1 walkthrough for the first part and see what I think again. When I played it I just felt like I was getting lost and the combat was super boring.
this is a game I love going back to from time to time, but I still have problems finishing. I really hate to be exploring for an hour or so then get a boss, die and respawn at the last bench... All my hours? Gone. My money? Somewhere I cannt reach...
I get that's the game, but I still don't like it. I have some problems with my reflexes so I need a few tries before I can adjust. The game just punished that fact. I don't blame the game, but I won't buy silk song for the above reasons.
I get that's the game, but I still don't like it. I have some problems with my reflexes so I need a few tries before I can adjust. The game just punished that fact. I don't blame the game, but I won't buy silk song for the above reasons.
Its very special, played it on PC at launch. Top 10 of last gen for sure.
I've got the Voidheart edition on PS+. I dont think I played any of the DLC, is it much new content? New areas etc?
I've got the Voidheart edition on PS+. I dont think I played any of the DLC, is it much new content? New areas etc?
A really beautiful, very rewarding game. I'm not sure that it's a "masterpiece" as many people claim it to be, but there's a lot of reason to get excited about a sequel. My minor quibbles...
I loved how it looked and moved, but it frequently came at the expense of gameplay for me. As others have mentioned, enemies/environmental hazards often blend into the background and getting hit by one of those always felt more "cheap" than exciting. I get what the team was going for mood/atmosphere-wise, but the silhouetted shapes and monochrome coloring in the majority of areas gave the game a strange monotony and really blurred my ability to sense where I was in the world (this appears to be a cool thing for others, so maybe it's just me). This is one area Ori really excels in.
The bosses felt a tad bit spongey for me. Like every boss encounter lasted about 10% too long. They weren't like Blasphemous' bosses, but a lot of them overstayed their welcome. YMMV.
...except some routes are significantly more difficult than others and the game doesn't clearly communicate which is which. Developer intentions and player experience are two very different things and I didn't pick up on the messaging/subtlies of the map system initially. I just thought that the game had a really crappy map for the sake of difficulty. I'm not opposed to what they were trying to accomplish, but I wish the game was a slightly less obtuse about what challenges I could expect before choosing a path. If the only information given to the player is "there's a left path and a right path. Pick one." it isn't a meaningful choice, it's a guess. Honestly, if the average gamer told me they were going to pick up the game, I would make sure to tell them about the interactive map that can be used to help smooth out some of the rough edges here.
I don't want to sound too down on the game. I really enjoyed a lot of it, but there are a number of things that I'm looking forward to being changed/fixed in the sequel.
I loved how it looked and moved, but it frequently came at the expense of gameplay for me. As others have mentioned, enemies/environmental hazards often blend into the background and getting hit by one of those always felt more "cheap" than exciting. I get what the team was going for mood/atmosphere-wise, but the silhouetted shapes and monochrome coloring in the majority of areas gave the game a strange monotony and really blurred my ability to sense where I was in the world (this appears to be a cool thing for others, so maybe it's just me). This is one area Ori really excels in.
The bosses felt a tad bit spongey for me. Like every boss encounter lasted about 10% too long. They weren't like Blasphemous' bosses, but a lot of them overstayed their welcome. YMMV.
...except some routes are significantly more difficult than others and the game doesn't clearly communicate which is which. Developer intentions and player experience are two very different things and I didn't pick up on the messaging/subtlies of the map system initially. I just thought that the game had a really crappy map for the sake of difficulty. I'm not opposed to what they were trying to accomplish, but I wish the game was a slightly less obtuse about what challenges I could expect before choosing a path. If the only information given to the player is "there's a left path and a right path. Pick one." it isn't a meaningful choice, it's a guess. Honestly, if the average gamer told me they were going to pick up the game, I would make sure to tell them about the interactive map that can be used to help smooth out some of the rough edges here.
I don't want to sound too down on the game. I really enjoyed a lot of it, but there are a number of things that I'm looking forward to being changed/fixed in the sequel.
Its a solid metroidvania. I can see it being transformative for people who haven't played many in the genre or played too many poor ones but there's quite a few series I'd put above it from Metroid itself to stuff like Guacamelee. I do appreciate the Shovel Knight influences in the game though. I think the environments looking too similar throughout the game kind of hurt it for me and I really didn't enjoy getting around the very large map the further you get in. It was less about getting lost and more about it being repetitive in that sense. I also struggle to understand why people found it particularly difficult and I'm usually the person that rolls their eyes at the person who says every game is easy.
I enjoyed it but don't really want to replay it, problematic for its genre.
This stems from the level design that stretches too much into long corridors and lack of organic shortcuts, so big backtracking.
That's what made me hesitate playing it but it's a good one time experience for the challenge.
This stems from the level design that stretches too much into long corridors and lack of organic shortcuts, so big backtracking.
That's what made me hesitate playing it but it's a good one time experience for the challenge.
I think the game is way over-hyped here and vastly overstays its welcome but I agree with that.
I liked Monster Boy a lot more, with its constant stream of new abilities & upgrades and its puzzle-focused challenges.
Agreed, it's a really amazing game. It was the first time I've felt genuinely lost in a metroidvania since Symphony of the Night, and it was just magical. I do understand and agree with some people's criticisms, and I have hopes that Silksong is gonna end up addressing at least all of the combat related ones for me.
Lol no don't get too excited, it's a decent game with a lot of flaws that make it a slog to play.
there are much better games in the same sub-genre.
That terrible map system and progression design, with the lack of reward makes the experience tedious, and sadly kills it's potential.
there are much better games in the same sub-genre.
That terrible map system and progression design, with the lack of reward makes the experience tedious, and sadly kills it's potential.
I am not a fan of Metroidvanias, but occasionally one grasps me(Fell in love with Ori 1 and Yoku's Islamd Express this past year) Hollow Knight wasn't one of them. It never really felt unique. It was pretty, but otherwise it just felt like I was playing every other Metroidvania out there, except the developers made this one stupidly frustrating and difficult just to jump on the Dark Souls hype train.
It is really pretty, just was not fun at all and the map system was complete bullshit.
It is really pretty, just was not fun at all and the map system was complete bullshit.
I was playing it in the early days of the pandemic last year and it kept me sane. Such a beautiful, mesmerizing game. Can't wait for Silksong.
This is how I feel as well.
Also wish the true ending wasn't hidden behind a super hard 42 boss rush without a single checkpoint.
I don't understand this take. Reading a map and having a sense of where you are is fundamental to metroidvania-styled games (this should not be confused with holding your hand because having a map doesn't mean you are guaranteed to overcome platform challenges). Losing the map doesn't add anything in terms of atmosphere, all it does is make things more tedious than it needs to be.
I finished it a week ago, I ended up loving it so much that I did pretty much everything you can do in the game(112%). It's a masterpiece.
Hollow Knight is a very special game, and I will always treasure the 50 hours I've put into it. I LOVED going back to this world and exploring some more. I'm now at 102%, and I don't know if I have it in me to pick up and get the true ending from here. I might just use that one glitch though.
That being said, if I had to compare them, I would rank Ori and the Will of the Wisps above it, as I prefer its movement, combat, visuals, music, and - most importantly - it resonated with me on an emotional level like no other game so far (and few other pieces of media, to be quite honest). It's absolutely stunning what they were able to pull off with that ending.
But, I digress. I'm just so happy that games like Ori and Hollow Knight exist. :)
That being said, if I had to compare them, I would rank Ori and the Will of the Wisps above it, as I prefer its movement, combat, visuals, music, and - most importantly - it resonated with me on an emotional level like no other game so far (and few other pieces of media, to be quite honest). It's absolutely stunning what they were able to pull off with that ending.
But, I digress. I'm just so happy that games like Ori and Hollow Knight exist. :)
Glad you got to experience the masterpiece. The game goes past 100% for completion status just in case you were not aware!
I love getting lost in games and having to find my way and get to fully play around and enjoy the mechanics. Hollow Knight is a 2D dream come true and top 3 all time for me.
Aside from having the most boring Power ups I saw in the genre, and the fact that the knight is slow as f*** (which is a problem especially in post game) coupled with the check points system being a bit in the unfair side of things it's indeed an incredible game, can't wait for Silksong as it seems to be an improvement in every facade.
Killed the Spider boss and had enough.
I feel like I had explored a lot of the map but didn't really know where to go at the time but I also felt like I had backtracked through the whole goddamn map around twice and just wasn't having fun by that point. Probably won't ever complete it. Felt unnecessarily obtuse if you ask me.
I feel like I had explored a lot of the map but didn't really know where to go at the time but I also felt like I had backtracked through the whole goddamn map around twice and just wasn't having fun by that point. Probably won't ever complete it. Felt unnecessarily obtuse if you ask me.
You've hit the nail on the head with all of this.
Hopefully Silksong is actually a perfect game.
The game really could have used a nudge system at least from the Mayor of the town or some other NPC. I had quit the game 3-5 times before I actually played it through after looking at a guide.
HK doesn't "lose the map" though. It just asks that you make your own as you first explore each area, before getting the in-game map.
One of my favorite games of last gen and all time, really. I'm just still a bit salty that they never bothered to patch in controller vibration support for the PC version when all the console versions have it. Then again I've bought the PS4 retail for a future playthrough.
I just started it. Just got the normal dash. I'm enjoying my time with it, but it's not grabbing me like I thought it would. When I do play it, I am having fun, but it just hasn't clicked with me to the point where I can't wait to play it during times when I am unable to do so (work, etc).
Hollow Knight is one of the greatest games of all time imo, definitely up there in the top 20. Phenomenal in every regard. Tight controls, fair challenge, wonderful world to explore, little hand-holding, great art style, incredible enemy variety, great sense of progression, lovely atmosphere.
This is why I dropped it. I don't have the time or patience anymore to wait for a game to get good; I need it to be fun from the beginning.
I'll try it again at some point down the line.
Just curious, but did you like Godhome?
It was the only part I didn't really like.
It's really good but I wouldn't call it a masterpiece. The level design is way too convoluted and annoying at times. I played this back to back with Bloodstained: Ritual of the Night and I liked that quite a bit more. Even when the art style of Hollow Knight is far superior.
I put 12 hours into it on PS4 and then bought a 240hz monitor so I clearly can't keep playing it on PS4 without recoiling in sheer disgust.
It really is really good though. Based on what I've played it sure could be the best metroidvania ever made, barring the music and character art but that's just my opinion. The combat, movement, movement abilities and map exploration are top notch.
It really is really good though. Based on what I've played it sure could be the best metroidvania ever made, barring the music and character art but that's just my opinion. The combat, movement, movement abilities and map exploration are top notch.
Actually, I don't know if I can properly answer that without replaying it lmao. I kinda rushed through the DLCs, and I remember not minding it that much? I certainly don't recall loving it as much as the main game, but I don't remember disliking it either.
Might give it another run just to form a better opinion on the expansions!