Hogwarts Legacy senior producer Troy Leavitt, a game dev who used to make anti-feminist and pro gamer-gate videos (staff post added)(Up: Resigns)

[Deleted member 5491]

I doubt that will happen HP is too big an ip for most sites to ignore.

Click to shrink...

Look how most sites handle just everything reagrding a game. Any words about how workers get abused, about crunch, about stories from QA while a new trailer comes out, or during a show, or in a preview/review? Nah. They'll continue with the same shit, and hype everything up just like with Cyberbug 20077.

 

[PenultimateFantasy]

Totally respect decision about this game but I have a question

I was looking on twitter for Liam - Doctor Cupcakes

He seems to have gone private as a result of a user who begins with L who claims to be against TERFs. On her post there are many comments on how awful Liam is.

Is the user who seems to hate him also anti Trans?
I'm so confused

 

[CaviarMeths]

What about Blizzard, a studio that not only treats its developers like trash, but also supports a genocidal and oppressive CCP government that kills hundreds of thousands and tortures more?

Click to shrink...

An important issue, but you're coming off as pretty tone deaf here. If you're not going to read the conversation, at least try to read the room.

 

[Roytheone]

Good decision, but maybe it's good to have a sticky thread with all games and creators that have (partial) bans on here? There are a few now, and there is also differences with what is included in the ban and what is still allowed between games. Would be nice to have a central place people can check that.

 

[DryCreek]

.

 

[Lnds500]

Yeah, i am not buying this game, at least not new. Maybe used down the road.

what a completely shitty situation all around.

Sad about the developers that do not share JKR and this idiot's views.

 

[Maxime]

A good decision was made here.

Fuck this game, fuck JKR, fuck this dude. Sending all my love to the trans community.

 

[QBizM]

A good decision was made here.

Fuck this game, fuck JKR, fuck this dude. Sending all my love to the trans community.

Click to shrink...

I'll only add fuck any member of the defence force of this game or any of its allies. Thanks mods for taking a stand.

 

[WeWereGiants]

Stopped supporting this company after the Shadow Of War debacle, that's just a speck compared to this mess. The right decision has been made to ban it, thanks staff.

 

[Rorschach Noir]

Indefensible

 

[Deleted member 52442]

I cant defend this guy because his views are horrible but seeing the mob come after this whole game scares me

As you all know, it takes hundreds of people to make any AAA game like this these days. After many years of wishing and hoping for an open world game from the long dormant HP game series, I would hate to see this project canceled because of a backlash

That would also mean hundreds of game devs out of a job and means of income during a pandemic. Not to mention the fact that Avalanche barely survived post Disney. The WB acquisition saved them

Click to shrink...

yeah i hope the brutal and savage mob of oppressed people don't cause the video game to get cancelled just because they employ people spewing hate

 

[Potterson]

I cant defend this guy because his views are horrible but seeing the mob come after this whole game scares me

As you all know, it takes hundreds of people to make any AAA game like this these days. After many years of wishing and hoping for an open world game from the long dormant HP game series, I would hate to see this project canceled because of a backlash

That would also mean hundreds of game devs out of a job and means of income during a pandemic. Not to mention the fact that Avalanche barely survived post Disney. The WB acquisition saved them

Click to shrink...

What? There is no way that the game will be canceled, lol. But we can boycott it and not talking about every new trailer coming out will NOT hurt the developers in any way. Hell, even total ban on discussions about this game will not hurt the devs at all. We just shouldn't help the marketing of this thing.

 

[Humidex]

Can't fault Hecht's post - it's absolutely the right call. Thank you.

 

[NintendoSwitchLover]

So this is a uniquely awful situation where both the creator of the IP and a senior producer on the game have unrepentant bigoted views.

The team has talked it over at length and as a result we've decided to implement a total ban on threads for promotional media for the game. This means there will be no threads for trailers or official announcements, no hype threads, no fluff pieces about its features. This functionally bans almost all threads leading up to release, unless there are major new developments about the controversy or something along those lines.

This is the first time we've done something like this and we consider this a very exceptional case. It's not just one bigoted game designer that made the difference here. JK Rowling's singular reach and influence, how closely that influence is tied to the Harry Potter IP, and what she chooses to do with that power, is a unique problem on top of this latest controversy.

We're going to revisit whether to have an OT much closer to the game's release. Learning from what happened with Cyberpunk, if there is an OT, it will have a text-only OP created by staff that lays out the controversy with the game and IP. The main reason to have an OT at all is the same one we've articulated before: Some minority members want a space to discuss the game's contents where they will not be shouted down by bigots.

For now though we're definitely not going to be platforming the marketing. If you see any threads for that stuff please report them. If you're unsure about a thread you want to post, please contact the staff first to check before creating it.

Click to shrink...

This is the perfect way to approach this travesty of a game.

 

[Zor]

I was looking on twitter for Liam - Doctor Cupcakes

He seems to have gone private as a result of a user who begins with L who claims to be against TERFs. On her post there are many comments on how awful Liam is.

Is the user who seems to hate him also anti Trans?
I'm so confused

Click to shrink...

You appear to be the only one with this info right now so if there's more you can share that you think might be important, then it might be worth providing it.

 

[kami_sama]

Perfect way to handle this game on the site.
Also, who the fuck cares that we are not talking about the game. We're a minority (sadly) and if devs lived and died only by what people say on the internet, they would die very quickly. The whole "think of the devs" shtick is not gonna fly.

 

[alexiswrite]

I cant defend this guy because his views are horrible but seeing the mob come after this whole game scares me

As you all know, it takes hundreds of people to make any AAA game like this these days. After many years of wishing and hoping for an open world game from the long dormant HP game series, I would hate to see this project canceled because of a backlash

That would also mean hundreds of game devs out of a job and means of income during a pandemic. Not to mention the fact that Avalanche barely survived post Disney. The WB acquisition saved them

Click to shrink...

I don't like the use of the word "Mob" here. Also, people who are being persecuted do not bear the responsibility of protecting the jobs of people helping to make art that enriches and provides power to the persecutors. The responsibility falls on the company who commissioned this game in the first place, it's not like this was the only video game that could have been made.

 

[ZeoVGM]

I cant defend this guy because his views are horrible but seeing the Twitter/internet mob come after this whole game scares me

As you all know, it takes hundreds of people to make any AAA game like this these days. After many years of wishing and hoping for an open world game from the long dormant HP game series, I would hate to see this project canceled because of a backlash

That would also mean hundreds of game devs out of a job and means of income during a pandemic. Not to mention the fact that Avalanche barely survived post Disney. The WB acquisition saved them

Click to shrink...

Nice priorities.

 

[It’s Time To Go]

I cant defend this guy because his views are horrible but seeing the Twitter/internet mob come after this whole game scares me

As you all know, it takes hundreds of people to make any AAA game like this these days. After many years of wishing and hoping for an open world game from the long dormant HP game series, I would hate to see this project canceled because of a backlash

That would also mean hundreds of game devs out of a job and means of income during a pandemic. Not to mention the fact that Avalanche barely survived post Disney. The WB acquisition saved them

Click to shrink...

Just admit you care more about your Harry Potter game than supporting trans people.

 

[Khanimus]

I cant defend this guy because his views are horrible but seeing the mob come after this whole game scares me

As you all know, it takes hundreds of people to make any AAA game like this these days. After many years of wishing and hoping for an open world game from the long dormant HP game series, I would hate to see this project canceled because of a backlash

That would also mean hundreds of game devs out of a job and means of income during a pandemic. Not to mention the fact that Avalanche barely survived post Disney. The WB acquisition saved them

Click to shrink...

In what world is WB going to cancel this game?

Minimize Rowling's name where they can publicly? Probably. Not let this fucker do interviews with outlets that might ask about this? Certainly.

But WB isn't going to cancel a $100+ million project because of this forum. I'd be shocked if Leavitt was even reprimanded beyond management asking him to keep away from social media.


And apart from this entire misguided assessment of the risk of this game's market viability under this comparatively minor scrutiny - it's nobody's obligation to buy Avalanche's game. The ethical responsibility does not land on consumers to ensure this project is a success. Nobody wants a studio of hundreds of people fired, but it's WB's and Avalanche's management that keeps this fucker employed, that chose this project, and on whose shoulders its success or failure falls upon.

As if a forum ban of this game's marketing here is somehow going to shutter the studio.

 

[Weltall Zero]

So this is a uniquely awful situation where both the creator of the IP and a senior producer on the game have unrepentant bigoted views.

The team has talked it over at length and as a result we've decided to implement a total ban on threads for promotional media for the game. This means there will be no threads for trailers or official announcements, no hype threads, no fluff pieces about its features. This functionally bans almost all threads leading up to release, unless there are major new developments about the controversy or something along those lines.

This is the first time we've done something like this and we consider this a very exceptional case. It's not just one bigoted game designer that made the difference here. JK Rowling's singular reach and influence, how closely that influence is tied to the Harry Potter IP, and what she chooses to do with that power, is a unique problem on top of this latest controversy.

We're going to revisit whether to have an OT much closer to the game's release. Learning from what happened with Cyberpunk, if there is an OT, it will have a text-only OP created by staff that lays out the controversy with the game and IP. The main reason to have an OT at all is the same one we've articulated before: Some minority members want a space to discuss the game's contents where they will not be shouted down by bigots.

For now though we're definitely not going to be platforming the marketing. If you see any threads for that stuff please report them. If you're unsure about a thread you want to post, please contact the staff first to check before creating it.

Click to shrink...

Fuck yeah. <3

I cant defend this guy because his views are horrible but seeing the Twitter/internet mob come after this whole game scares me

As you all know, it takes hundreds of people to make any AAA game like this these days. After many years of wishing and hoping for an open world game from the long dormant HP game series, I would hate to see this project canceled because of a backlash

That would also mean hundreds of game devs out of a job and means of income during a pandemic. Not to mention the fact that Avalanche barely survived post Disney. The WB acquisition saved them

Click to shrink...

Read the room and stop using us devs to justify your priorities.

 

[ArkhamFantasy]

I cant defend this guy because his views are horrible but seeing the Twitter/internet mob come after this whole game scares me

As you all know, it takes hundreds of people to make any AAA game like this these days. After many years of wishing and hoping for an open world game from the long dormant HP game series, I would hate to see this project canceled because of a backlash

That would also mean hundreds of game devs out of a job and means of income during a pandemic. Not to mention the fact that Avalanche barely survived post Disney. The WB acquisition saved them

Click to shrink...

This line of thought ceases to matter when the studio and publisher both know that their developers and IP holder are spreading bigotry, promoting harassment campaigns, and then publicly defends their rights to "express opinions on social media".

This is not a bad apple, this is a bad orchard.

 

[entrydenied]

I cant defend this guy because his views are horrible but seeing the Twitter/internet mob come after this whole game scares me

As you all know, it takes hundreds of people to make any AAA game like this these days. After many years of wishing and hoping for an open world game from the long dormant HP game series, I would hate to see this project canceled because of a backlash

That would also mean hundreds of game devs out of a job and means of income during a pandemic. Not to mention the fact that Avalanche barely survived post Disney. The WB acquisition saved them

Click to shrink...

Do you sincerely think that people on this Internet actually have the power to cause this game to fail? It is Harry Potter. The most we are doing is creating awareness and not hyping the game up. The devs are already paid every month for their work and the game is going to sell great because most people don't care or don't know.

There is no mob.

 

[Pirateluigi]

After many years of wishing and hoping for an open world game from the long dormant HP game series, I would hate to see this project canceled because of a backlash

Click to shrink...

There it is. Just say that you care more about your HP game than trans lives if that's how you really feel.

 

[Weltall Zero]

What about Blizzard, a studio that not only treats its developers like trash, but also supports a genocidal and oppressive CCP government that kills hundreds of thousands and tortures more?

Click to shrink...

Don't use threads about important issues to issue whataboutisms about other (if also important) issues; make a thread about these instead.

 

[FormatCompatible]

Reported. Not even going to give them the pleasure of quoting them.

 

[Fat4all]

i imagine there will still be an OT for the game, which is fine as long as it is also given the same focus and moderation as the Cyberpunk one

but it would be nice if, similar to Cyberpunk, that there be a thread dedicated to not only this fools bullshit, but also JKs harmful rhetoric and actions

having a thread that can fully encapsulate all the issues in a concise way feels pretty important, it makes it so much easier for people to get educated about the issues (thanks again to Kyuuji for their fantastic Cyberpunk thread)

 

[spman2099]

I cant defend this guy because his views are horrible but seeing the Twitter/internet mob come after this whole game scares me

As you all know, it takes hundreds of people to make any AAA game like this these days. After many years of wishing and hoping for an open world game from the long dormant HP game series, I would hate to see this project canceled because of a backlash

That would also mean hundreds of game devs out of a job and means of income during a pandemic. Not to mention the fact that Avalanche barely survived post Disney. The WB acquisition saved them

Click to shrink...

I have no problem with someone who is separating the art from the artist, here. If you still want to buy the game, that is fine. However, accountability isn't mob justice (as you are implying it is). People should be held accountable for the things they say and do. This game isn't going to be cancelled. That isn't going to happen. However, if we ignore the terrible behavior of the people in the industry, and continue to not speak out against it, we are culpable. Video games aren't in a good place (when it comes to bigotry). It isn't going to get better if people just ignore its problems and look the other way.

 

[Adulfzen]

I cant defend this guy because his views are horrible but seeing the Twitter/internet mob come after this whole game scares me

As you all know, it takes hundreds of people to make any AAA game like this these days. After many years of wishing and hoping for an open world game from the long dormant HP game series, I would hate to see this project canceled because of a backlash

That would also mean hundreds of game devs out of a job and means of income during a pandemic. Not to mention the fact that Avalanche barely survived post Disney. The WB acquisition saved them

Click to shrink...

...

 

[It’s Time To Go]

i imagine there will still be an OT for the game, which is fine as long as it is also given the same focus and moderation as the Cyberpunk one

but it would be nice if, similar to Cyberpunk, that there be a thread dedicated to not only this fools bullshit, but also JKs harmful rhetoric and actions

having a thread that can fully encapsulate all the issues in a concise way feels pretty important, it makes it so much easier for people to get educated about the issues (thanks again to Kyuuji for their fantastic Cyberpunk thread)

Click to shrink...

TERF JK Rowling continues to be a hateful bigot.

Members have been asking for a single thread about JK Rowling that can serve as a comprehensive resource about her transphobic bigotry – many are already using this thread for that purpose, so we’re going to make it official: News about JK Rowling herself or any updates about the awful things...

www.resetera.com

 

[Fat4all]

TERF JK Rowling continues to be a hateful bigot.

Members have been asking for a single thread about JK Rowling that can serve as a comprehensive resource about her transphobic bigotry – many are already using this thread for that purpose, so we’re going to make it official: News about JK Rowling herself or any updates about the awful things...

www.resetera.com

Click to shrink...

I think a new thread closer to the games launch (and including this threads info in the OP) will be more effective

especially since i wouldn't be shocked if even more bullshit sprouts out before this game launches, it'll be nice to have a thread the OT can link to that really stacks up and goes through all the trash in the OP

tho to be fair, that thread can be updated and maybe pinned if the need be

 

[It’s Time To Go]

I think a new thread closer to the games launch (and including this threads info in the OP) will be more effective

especially since i wouldn't be shocked if even more bullshit sprouts out before this game launches, it'll be nice to have a thread the OT can link to that really stacks up and goes through all the trash in the OP

tho to be fair, that thread can be updated and maybe pinned if the need be

Click to shrink...

Fair enough. I'll see about making a new OP that's a much bigger summary of Rowling's bigotry, and include this, see what the mods think.

 

[Fat4all]

Fair enough. I'll see about making a new OP that's a much bigger summary of Rowling's bigotry, and include this, see what the mods think.

Click to shrink...

I think it would be a great thing, either updating or making a new thread

it might be a lot of work, but having all that info in one opening post feels really effective imo, so easy to direct people right to it so they can see all the fuckery

 

[ProfessorLv10]

Good decision, but maybe it's good to have a sticky thread with all games and creators that have (partial) bans on here? There are a few now, and there is also differences with what is included in the ban and what is still allowed between games. Would be nice to have a central place people can check that.

Click to shrink...

I second this. Sometimes it's hard to Google your way to the information, especially if you don't use social media like Twitter.

Also, great job staff!!

 

[Deleted member 7051]

Hopefully none of this guy's sexism or transphobia seeps into the game itself. There would be several lead designers working on it, right? So his influence should be limited.

That's really the best case scenario, given that this game is going to sell millions regardless. It all depends on the suits, I guess - they're going to want the most inoffensive game possible, after all, so I doubt they'd allow any sexist rhetoric in the game. The real question is whether or not Warner Bros. will make a serious effort to include trans people in the game in light of Rowling's obvious hate.

Hopefully they do, 'cause being transgender in a world where magic exists and can be used to physically alter oneself is something that would be really interesting to explore in the right hands.

 

[Arkanim94]

I cant defend this guy because his views are horrible but seeing the Twitter/internet mob come after this whole game scares me

As you all know, it takes hundreds of people to make any AAA game like this these days. After many years of wishing and hoping for an open world game from the long dormant HP game series, I would hate to see this project canceled because of a backlash

That would also mean hundreds of game devs out of a job and means of income during a pandemic. Not to mention the fact that Avalanche barely survived post Disney. The WB acquisition saved them

Click to shrink...

Ok, what do you want from this community?

 

[CaviarMeths]

I have no problem with someone who is separating the art from the artist, here. If you still want to buy the game, that is fine.

Click to shrink...

"Separating the art from the artist" means not taking context from the artist's life into account when digesting their art. For example, if you didn't know about Lovecraft's vehement racism, you might have a completely different interpretation of his stories than someone who was aware of that. Or if you did know about it, you still have the option to not consider it relevant to the themes in his work. Art is deeply subjective, after all.

It doesn't mean willfully ignoring the hateful words and views of artists because they happen to make things you enjoy. That's just called not giving a shit and a shield people hide behind to avoid being conscientious consumers.

This isn't aimed at you. I'm just uncomfortable with how this phrase and "death of the author" have been co-opted by people trying to use legitimate conversations about art to say nothing interesting at all and who just don't want to have to think about how supporting their problematic faves can be harmful to vulnerable people.

That would also mean hundreds of game devs out of a job and means of income during a pandemic

Click to shrink...

This is another shield, except probably more annoying because it's pretending to give a shit.

 

[Phellps]

I'd like to remind that a game getting cancelled =/= studio shutting down.

 

[Zookfoodle]

It's good to see staff actually taking a stand. Mad props. God this shit has been a rollercoaster in the worst way

 

[underFlorence]

I know this is slightly off topic, but I genuinely wonder what kind of impact the Biden administration's stance on trans rights has on bigots like JK.

How does their head not explode from hearing Biden's press secretary say:

TRANS RIGHTS ARE HUMAN RIGHTS!

Click to shrink...

If I recall correctly, quite a few TERFs on Mumsnet were missing Trump and his stancs when Biden's admin said that lol

 

[Elyian]

Pretty incredible that the guy not only had his terrible world views exposed to the world with zero repercussions, but was also still capable of landing a position like the one he has after the fact, WHILE the company the hired him knew. It's great to see such unanimous support from the staff here(seriously, great job), but god damn do we still have a lot of work to do, cause this simply should not stand.

 

[Soap]

I've never had any real affinity for Harry Potter, but I can only imagine how crushed certain fans feel. At least with some problematic authors you can use the "product of its time" excuse, but the issues here are pretty regressive by today's standards let alone in the future.

 

[Calibro]

Don't use threads about important issues to issue whataboutisms about other (if also important) issues; make a thread about these instead.

Click to shrink...

If you or someone else can, do it. I can't because mods won't allow me.

 

[ChrisP8Three]

I love Harry Potter as an IP, i loved the series and for a time JK.....then i saw who she was.
I can separate the IP from the bigoted views of the creator, the IP belongs to the fans and the worlds they create, for as long as they want to.
So when i heard rumours of this game and then it was confirmed i was very happy, but cautios, i wanted JK as far away as possible.
And now we have this slime in charge....... I want to give this game a chance, i really do, or did because as long as he remains i just don't think i can in good conscience ignore those two influences on this. Cyberpunk taught me a lesson, that game was a shit show in every respect.

So i think its the right decision, i fully support it and won't bother with this game unless there some real change, which i doubt.
Bravo admin/mod team om making a hard choice here

 

[ClickyCal']

If you or someone else can, do it. I can't because mods won't allow me.

Click to shrink...

There is a community thread you can post it in to discuss.

 

[Phellps]

I've never had any real affinity for Harry Potter, but I can only imagine how crushed certain fans feel. At least with some problematic authors you can use the "product of its time" excuse, but the issues here are pretty regressive by today's standards let alone in the future.

Click to shrink...

It's worse in the case of Harry Potter, because the entire plot of all seven books leans heavily on showing how discrimination is damaging, so this is a fan base filled to the brim with people from marginalized groups because they identified with the characters on a deeper personal level, and the story kept telling them about acceptance.

And then the author turned out to be a TERF.

 

[spman2099]

It doesn't mean willfully ignoring the hateful words and views of artists because they happen to make things you enjoy. That's just called not giving a shit and a shield people hide behind to avoid being conscientious consumers.

Click to shrink...

I can't control what other people do. I don't have the right to tell other people what they can or cannot purchase. However, no matter what, I think it is important to address the problematic people involved in a work, and why their work is problematic, so that others can make an informed decision. Raising awareness of issues, and not brushing aside their problematic elements because they are inconvenient, is important. That is what I was getting at in the section of my post that you didn't quote.

We seem to have the same thoughts on the matter, no?

This isn't aimed at you. I'm just uncomfortable with how this phrase and "death of the author" have been co-opted by people trying to use legitimate conversations about art to say nothing interesting at all and who just don't want to have to think about how supporting their problematic faves can be harmful to vulnerable people.

Click to shrink...

Honestly, I absolutely share in that frustration. In the future I will have to consider how I word my position on the matter to try to avoid anyone potentially misunderstanding me...

 

[BBboy20]

Pretty incredible that the guy not only had his terrible world views exposed to the world with zero repercussions, but was also still capable of landing a position like the one he has after the fact, WHILE the company the hired him knew. It's great to see such unanimous support from the staff here(seriously, great job), but god damn do we still have a lot of work to do, cause this simply should not stand.

Click to shrink...

Hollywood (Warner Brothers) is a wretched hive of scum and villainy.

 

[MGPanda]

So this is a uniquely awful situation where both the creator of the IP and a senior producer on the game have unrepentant bigoted views.

The team has talked it over at length and as a result we've decided to implement a total ban on threads for promotional media for the game. This means there will be no threads for trailers or official announcements, no hype threads, no fluff pieces about its features. This functionally bans almost all threads leading up to release, unless there are major new developments about the controversy or something along those lines.

This is the first time we've done something like this and we consider this a very exceptional case. It's not just one bigoted game designer that made the difference here. JK Rowling's singular reach and influence, how closely that influence is tied to the Harry Potter IP, and what she chooses to do with that power, is a unique problem on top of this latest controversy.

We're going to revisit whether to have an OT much closer to the game's release. Learning from what happened with Cyberpunk, if there is an OT, it will have a text-only OP created by staff that lays out the controversy with the game and IP. The main reason to have an OT at all is the same one we've articulated before: Some minority members want a space to discuss the game's contents where they will not be shouted down by bigots.

For now though we're definitely not going to be platforming the marketing. If you see any threads for that stuff please report them. If you're unsure about a thread you want to post, please contact the staff first to check before creating it.

Click to shrink...

Absolutely the right decision. I'm not usually too keen on "censoring" discussion, but as you said this is exceptional. It's just not right to give this game a platform.

 

[CaviarMeths]

I can't control what other people do. I don't have the right to tell other people what they can or cannot purchase. However, no matter what, I think it is important to address the problematic people involved in a work, and why their work is problematic, so that others can make an informed decision. Raising awareness of issues, and not brushing aside their problematic elements because they are inconvenient, is important. That is what I was getting at in the section of my post that you didn't quote.

We seem to have the same thoughts on the matter, no?

Click to shrink...

We do. I edited my post to clarify that my comment wasn't directed at you.