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Oct 25, 2017
8,276
The objective was to create a combat system for future projects so I don't have to start from scratch with every new game (like it happened with my previous games), making a space pirates game with it was a bonus.

I already have a pitch in my Steam page, it's not like I want to change the basic gameplay, it's just that it seems I need more time to make an attractive demo and experimenting with a different visual style might be worth my time.

And yes, getting attention is hard but I can't just pretend everything is right if I get none. Something must change.

Looking at the Steam page, my first impression is that you could go much further with the Space Pirates element. Right now, it's not near as much of a hook as it could be. Reading the page, right about the time I expected you to double down on the pirate stuff, instead, you hedge and say "hey if you don't want pirates you can play as these factions too". That gives me the impression that the pirate stuff isn't actually deeply integrated into the mechanics and/or makes me worry that things will be spread too thin.

I think Xcom but with Space Pirates is a pretty dang good hook, as someone who likes Xcom-style combat that is appealing, but I just want more Pirates doing pirate things, ya know? I want my imagination to run wild thinking about how different elements of being a pirate will be manifested in the game.

Sea Shanties are blowing up on Tiktok right now, people are into pirates in a big way because it combines the feeling of isolation of quarantine with a sense of exploration and social interaction that we are all missing out on. This is a great time for a dang pirate-ass pirate game!
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
I haven't recruited people for feedback, the goal is to get organic feedback, people need to feel compelled by themselves to stop and share feedback, if I force it by recruiting people or sharing a sob story then it's not good enough to gauge interest.
2k followers on Twitter mean nothing, when I join the site I did a lot of follow back so I got my numbers up quickly but people that actually engage are just a few. In fact that's worse, it means I have 2k followers that don't feel compelled by what I post.

Please don't misunderstand me, I'm not debating if I'll keep working in this game, I'm GONNA finish it. What I'm debating is if I give more time in the oven to my current demo before releasing it in Steam (the one I have is already approved, I just need to press a button) and if a visual revamp would be worth my time.

I guess I misunderstood. I thought you meant you weren't getting feedback from actual players of the game, so I assumed you had people testing it already, I was just wondering how (since there's no demo). If you mean giving feedback on your media... is that even a thing that happens nowadays? :D I barely get the occassional "this looks cool" (and I really mean occassional; as in, once in a few months at best if I tweet every week).
 

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,860
I guess I misunderstood. I thought you meant you weren't getting feedback from actual players of the game, so I assumed you had people testing it already, I was just wondering how (since there's no demo). If you mean giving feedback on your media... is that even a thing that happens nowadays? :D I barely get the occassional "this looks cool" (and I really mean occassional; as in, once in a few months at best if I tweet every week).

he uploaded the demo here

I finally replaced my prototype with a demo. It's a very early demo but a demo nonetheless:



Now I'm going through the process of uploading the demo to Steam. I just want to be done with this festival stuff, having a deadline worked as a way of making me work harder but now I want to go back to my previous rythm.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
he uploaded the demo here

Ugh, I totally missed that. Sorry about that. >_<

Lautar0, I have no clue how much visibility indiedb has, but I would guess a lot less than Steam. I'm sure you'll get lots of feedback once you release it there, whether that's this festival or the next. I would recommend making leaving feedback as painless as possible, e.g. include a link in the demo itself to do so (to a Discord, email, Steam forums or whatever).

If you mean you haven't got feedback from people here, don't use this as a measurement of interest from the general public. I rarely have the time to play pretty much any of the games here even when they're my jam, and I would guess the rest of devs here are the same. Hence why we need the "try our games" thread I mentioned above...
 

Sean Noonan

Lead Level Designer at Splash Damage
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
384
UK
Attention is the goal itself, if random people are not saying anything about your game (good or bad) then something's wrong. I need to find a way to make at least a few people stop scrolling when I post something on Twitter or Steam.
I'm suggesting that you explore your "why" a little. Why do you want attention, and whats your goal? If you know the answer to that, you can stay realistic and better target your efforts.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
No, I don't expect feedback from here, I'm wondering if my demo requires more time in the oven and frankly I think that's right. I'll give it a day and then I'll leave february's festival and I'll register for the next one. This demo is not ready to be shown at Steam.

That's fair, but also keep very present that correlating attention with the quality of your game is a) unrealistic (since visibility is a result of a million factors and the quality of your game is one of the smallest one), and b) potentially very demoralizing and damaging to your self-perception of your game.

I mean, Among Us, the game now making its devs rich with sales in the millions, earned them like $40 during its original release week. It was entirely unknown until it got a chain of attention from youtubers. If that's not a mindblowing lesson in the correlation (or lack thereof) between intrinsic quality and engagement / visibility (as well as the fundamental role of influencers), frankly I don't know what is.
 

Deleted member 62221

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 17, 2019
1,140
That's fair, but also keep very present that correlating attention with the quality of your game is a) unrealistic (since visibility is a result of a million factors and the quality of your game is one of the smallest one), and b) potentially very demoralizing and damaging to your self-perception of your game.

My morale is fine lol but thanks for the concern. I'm just trying to analyze this in a cold way, I'm not having some demoralization or anything, I just want to do things differently this time and if that means postponing a demo presentation I don't see what's the big deal.
 

DisQorded

Member
Dec 3, 2018
13
A friend of mine just sent me this:
www.humblebundle.com

Humble Learn Unity Game Development Bundle 2021

Kickstart your game development career. Get software like Complete Unity Developer 2D & Complete Unity Developer 3D. Plus, pay what you want & support charity!
The highest tier looks pretty comprehensive. Thoughts? Anyone has any experience with gamedev.tv?
I grabbed their UE4 bundle in 2019. It was definitely comprehensive, but they changed the video presenters between course sections a lot which was kind of annoying. I would definitely recommend that bundle to anyone looking to get started in unity.
 

Sean Noonan

Lead Level Designer at Splash Damage
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
384
UK
I finished my scene - I learned so much whilst making this. Genuinely felt like I leveled up by the end of it.

 

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,860


Wanted to get this done yesterday but you know, didn't feel like working all day lol. Still needs a ton of improvement cause it's buggy and things aren't exactly in the right place or going the right direction, but I'm happy I'm starting to time the animations to actions and it's feeling pretty good seeing progress. Also really need to touch up that hair animation, was fine in theory but in game it looks a bit too much.
 

Jobbs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,639
I recently played through Little Nightmares, which was absolutely amazing.

I flagged this particular part to look at later because I thought it was so cool.

streamable.com

shoes

Watch "shoes" on Streamable.

In this section, the character is able to traverse a massive pool of shoes. They don't behave as fully independent physics objects the way a shoe normally would in this game, but you can still see that they seem to bounce around independently as you disturb them.

Just for fun, I'm just curious about how this was achieved. The game is UE4. Any thoughts?
 

Kendrid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,127
Chicago, IL
Timberborn is fun if you like city builders. Extra points if you like beavers.

store.steampowered.com

Timberborn on Steam

Humans are long gone. In a world struck by droughts and toxic waste, will your lumberpunk beavers do any better? A city-building game featuring ingenious animals, vertical architecture, water physics, and terraforming. Contains high amounts of wood.
 

Oni_J

Member
Oct 28, 2017
256
Anyone partecipated in this year Global Game Jam?
I had the worst luck ever IRL but sill managed to complete a project with a super close friend:




While this were some other crazy good projects some of my friends and others at my "jam site" worked on!





And this one too is amazing as well!

Kite is Dead


3.png
 

Rolento

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,519

Darksol

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,704
Japan
Wife and I built a beast of a machine for gaming and...to jump into indie game development :) Rig is likely still a month from getting here, but we've got a lot to do in the meantime.

We're going with Unity, as a lot of what we like has been made with that.
 

Minamu

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,899
Sweden
Hey, is anyone here familiar with working with power of 2 for level design layouts? Such as Hammer I guess. Where I work, we're used to thinking in meters, but a new project has changed the metrics to be power of 2 and it's throwing off the design team because we're confused about how to use it. 1 meter seems to now mean 128 units of something abstract, so making a typical 4x4 meter room is difficult to grasp how to go about making.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Wife and I built a beast of a machine for gaming and...to jump into indie game development :) Rig is likely still a month from getting here, but we've got a lot to do in the meantime.

We're going with Unity, as a lot of what we like has been made with that.

I really, really need to get around to making that "learn how to make indie games with Unity" thread... In the meantime, please check this, as well as this.
 

stan423321

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,676
Hey, is anyone here familiar with working with power of 2 for level design layouts? Such as Hammer I guess. Where I work, we're used to thinking in meters, but a new project has changed the metrics to be power of 2 and it's throwing off the design team because we're confused about how to use it. 1 meter seems to now mean 128 units of something abstract, so making a typical 4x4 meter room is difficult to grasp how to go about making.
I mean, multiplying everything by 128 does not seem particularly convoluted. Still, what tools are you using? Some stuff has options for viewed units.
 

Minamu

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,899
Sweden
I mean, multiplying everything by 128 does not seem particularly convoluted. Still, what tools are you using? Some stuff has options for viewed units.
Yeah I'm not sure how big of a deal it is or if the fuss we're making is out of proportion xD We're moving from an in-house engine to UE4 (which I believe is not using the power of 2 style by default).
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,276
!!!🦌💚!!!

1996e1d646ae24ef86ad0f2c02618334_original.png


Today is the day! My 3 person team is launching our Kickstarter today.



I have that serene feeling that comes when all of the anxiety has burned off. I am pretty proud of what we have made so far. There is a demo available on the Kickstarter page as well, if people want to check it out.
 

Qwark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,017
!!!🦌💚!!!

1996e1d646ae24ef86ad0f2c02618334_original.png


Today is the day! My 3 person team is launching our Kickstarter today.



I have that serene feeling that comes when all of the anxiety has burned off. I am pretty proud of what we have made so far. There is a demo available on the Kickstarter page as well, if people want to check it out.

That looks amazing, congrats and good luck on the Kickstarter!
 

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,860
!!!🦌💚!!!

1996e1d646ae24ef86ad0f2c02618334_original.png


Today is the day! My 3 person team is launching our Kickstarter today.



I have that serene feeling that comes when all of the anxiety has burned off. I am pretty proud of what we have made so far. There is a demo available on the Kickstarter page as well, if people want to check it out.


Congrats! I see you are already gaining support so that seems like good news. Hope it's a huge success.
 

mikehaggar

Developer at Pixel Arc Studios
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
1,379
Harrisburg, Pa
!!!🦌💚!!!

1996e1d646ae24ef86ad0f2c02618334_original.png


Today is the day! My 3 person team is launching our Kickstarter today.



I have that serene feeling that comes when all of the anxiety has burned off. I am pretty proud of what we have made so far. There is a demo available on the Kickstarter page as well, if people want to check it out.


Found your twitter and retweeted announcement. Good luck :)
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,276
That looks amazing, congrats and good luck on the Kickstarter!
Congrats! I see you are already gaining support so that seems like good news. Hope it's a huge success.
Found your twitter and retweeted announcement. Good luck :)

Thanks!

It's my first time on the side of a Kickstarter, but it seems to be going ok so far. I've got my lucky socks on and everything.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
!!!🦌💚!!!

1996e1d646ae24ef86ad0f2c02618334_original.png


Today is the day! My 3 person team is launching our Kickstarter today.



I have that serene feeling that comes when all of the anxiety has burned off. I am pretty proud of what we have made so far. There is a demo available on the Kickstarter page as well, if people want to check it out.


Best of luck! Your game looks amazing so I'm sure it'll resonate with tons of people. :)

Relevant tweet, for those that want to help spread the word too:
 

Sean Noonan

Lead Level Designer at Splash Damage
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
384
UK
Hey, is anyone here familiar with working with power of 2 for level design layouts? Such as Hammer I guess. Where I work, we're used to thinking in meters, but a new project has changed the metrics to be power of 2 and it's throwing off the design team because we're confused about how to use it. 1 meter seems to now mean 128 units of something abstract, so making a typical 4x4 meter room is difficult to grasp how to go about making.
Power of 2 is superior. You stay on grid down to the lowest value (2) and because the scale (by default) is on an exponetial curve, it's far easier to quickly switch between large and small grid sizes. UE4 used to be power of 2 by default until they started pushing the archvis side of the engine. I understand why recreating the real world with real world metrics and measurements would be the prefered method of architects and artists... but for games, power of 2 wins.
 

Minamu

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,899
Sweden
Power of 2 is superior. You stay on grid down to the lowest value (2) and because the scale (by default) is on an exponetial curve, it's far easier to quickly switch between large and small grid sizes. UE4 used to be power of 2 by default until they started pushing the archvis side of the engine. I understand why recreating the real world with real world metrics and measurements would be the prefered method of architects and artists... but for games, power of 2 wins.
Thanks for your response. Yeah I don't necessarily understand the problem here, but I've never used power of 2 myself. In our case it is indeed people with architect backgrounds who are having trouble understanding it, but also mainly level designers (because they have many years of experience thinking in meters so the transition is difficult). Interestingly enough, it's artists that have pushed for this change (I suppose it makes it easier to do texturing?). You have any ideas on how to get over this hump in mindset? Proportionally, couldn't 1 unit of 128 just be "considered" to be 1 meter? There's no real point of reference for these virtual scales anyway, right? One main complaint for us is that this change makes it really difficult to port or recreate levels from one project to another, because a 4 meter wall in one game isn't the same as 4 units in UE4 (which would be 512, which is interpreted as 5.12 meters. I'm not sure that equation is a valid observation though?)
 

Sean Noonan

Lead Level Designer at Splash Damage
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
384
UK
also mainly level designers (because they have many years of experience thinking in meters so the transition is difficult)
I'd never trust a level designer that didn't start out with power of 2 :)

Side note, you still use meters/centimeters/metric in power of 2, it's just you base your grids on an even 2 rather flipping between 1, 5 and 10... (very messy and far slower for blocking out).

Personally I consider 96uu to be 1m... if I ever need to describe something by a real world height.

For example, in Gears of War we generally thought of the world in blocks of 32. 3x32 was low cover, 5x32 was player height, and therefore high cover, though for ease of build and readability we usually just doubled low cover to 6x32. For programmers and designers, these numbers are pretty standard, i.e. numbers like 32, 96, 160, 192, etc. It makes it easy to see if something is metric at a glance. The second you move to a non power of 2 grid I guarantee your level design team will work slower and sloppier.
 

GrahamGoring

Member
Nov 8, 2017
288
In this section, the character is able to traverse a massive pool of shoes. They don't behave as fully independent physics objects the way a shoe normally would in this game, but you can still see that they seem to bounce around independently as you disturb them.

Just for fun, I'm just curious about how this was achieved. The game is UE4. Any thoughts?

I'm guessing that the shoes are physics objects, but they're all constrained by invisible connections to the area they spawn in so that the level of complexity of the physic simulation never gets too high. i.e. you can't push them any real distance and pile them up as they'll always roll around and stay close to their start position.
 

Minamu

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,899
Sweden
I'd never trust a level designer that didn't start out with power of 2 :)

Side note, you still use meters/centimeters/metric in power of 2, it's just you base your grids on an even 2 rather flipping between 1, 5 and 10... (very messy and far slower for blocking out).

Personally I consider 96uu to be 1m... if I ever need to describe something by a real world height.

For example, in Gears of War we generally thought of the world in blocks of 32. 3x32 was low cover, 5x32 was player height, and therefore high cover, though for ease of build and readability we usually just doubled low cover to 6x32. For programmers and designers, these numbers are pretty standard, i.e. numbers like 32, 96, 160, 192, etc. It makes it easy to see if something is metric at a glance. The second you move to a non power of 2 grid I guarantee your level design team will work slower and sloppier.
Yeah this makes sense to me, you just gotta accept it :) So for example, how would the conversation go about let's say, "we need to make a 4x4 square meter room"? I guess you would consider it to be 388uu wide instead? We need to update and change our conversation and vocabulary around this I think.

For example, we have years of intrinsic knowledge and experience that says that a 4 meter wide corridor feels good for our product. But we have no good way of transferring that knowledge to Unreal at the moment, so all that knowledge is basically going right out the window. We need to find new metrics that "feel good" somehow, without letting old preconceptions get in the way.
 
Oct 25, 2017
682
Well, I just had a magical moment with my first real game dev project. I unintentionally did my first real play test while trying to stamp out a bug, and realized that the whole game doesn't work without having the full recipe information in front of the player so they can reasonable plan things out. It's obvious in hindsight, but actually playing through and trying to figure out how to solve my own puzzle so I could test if my checks were working was a surprisingly magical experience.

Just felt like I had to share. I've finally decided to jump in with my spare time, and it's been quite a ride. So far I've implemented 1 thing (Feature, UI component, new craftable, etc) each day since Jan 11, and it's been quite a ride. Progress has been going faster than I expected, and I'm pretty close to wrapping up the prototype. Just need to make my first puzzle solvable and add in my newly discovered requirement.
 
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Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Well, I just had a magical moment with my first real game dev project. I unintentionally did my first real play test while trying to stamp out a bug, and realized that the whole game doesn't work without having the full recipe information in front of the player so they can reasonable plan things out. It's obvious in hindsight, but actually playing through and trying to figure out how to solve my own puzzle so I could test if my checks were working was a surprisingly magical experience.

Just felt like I had to share. I've finally decided to jump in with my spare time, and it's been quite a ride. So far I've implemented 1 thing (Feature, UI component, new craftable, etc) each day since Jan 11, and it's been quite a ride. Progress has been going faster than I expected, and I'm pretty close to wrapping up the prototype. Just need to make my first puzzle solvable and add in my newly discovered requirement.

Congratulations on the steady progress! Looking forward to screenshots of your game, and what it's about.

These "obvious in hindsight" moments are like the game telling you what it wants to be. Rami Ismail puts it best: "you can't make the game you want in your head; it's impossible". A good developer will harness and embrace that feedback loop and make the game that it's meant to be, rather than what they wanted to make. :)
 
Oct 25, 2017
682
Congratulations on the steady progress! Looking forward to screenshots of your game, and what it's about.

These "obvious in hindsight" moments are like the game telling you what it wants to be. Rami Ismail puts it best: "you can't make the game you want in your head; it's impossible". A good developer will harness and embrace that feedback loop and make the game that it's meant to be, rather than what they wanted to make. :)
Thanks! And this makes a lot of sense. It kind of nudges you towards what feels best. Looking forward to seeing what it wants to grow up into.
 

Vark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
477
Yeah this makes sense to me, you just gotta accept it :) So for example, how would the conversation go about let's say, "we need to make a 4x4 square meter room"? I guess you would consider it to be 388uu wide instead? We need to update and change our conversation and vocabulary around this I think.

For example, we have years of intrinsic knowledge and experience that says that a 4 meter wide corridor feels good for our product. But we have no good way of transferring that knowledge to Unreal at the moment, so all that knowledge is basically going right out the window. We need to find new metrics that "feel good" somehow, without letting old preconceptions get in the way.

In UE4 1uu = 1cm by default so your 4 meter hallways is just 400 units?

You can also set units in the Editor- Appearance tab of the Project Settings.

Also you can set your grid snapping sizes to whatever you want if you want to enforce power of 2 over the default in the 'Viewports / Grid Snapping' section of the Editor Preferences.
 
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Minamu

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,899
Sweden
In UE4 1uu = 1cm by default so your 4 meter hallways is just 400 units?

You can also set units in the Editor- Appearance tab of the Project Settings.

Also you can set your grid snapping sizes to whatever you want if you want to enforce power of 2 over the default in the 'Viewports / Grid Snapping' section of the Editor Preferences.
Yeah but since artists make the mockup units in power of two, there's no good way of reaching 400uu, right? The closest whole unit would be 384uu. Anyway, we have tried reproducing an old level as accurately as possible where 96uu is roughly the same as 1 meter and I think we are fairly satisfied at the results. The new way of thinking around these numbers will take some getting used to but it's not insurmountable. Personally I'm excited to try something new.
 

Vark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
477
Yeah but since artists make the mockup units in power of two, there's no good way of reaching 400uu, right? The closest whole unit would be 384uu. Anyway, we have tried reproducing an old level as accurately as possible where 96uu is roughly the same as 1 meter and I think we are fairly satisfied at the results. The new way of thinking around these numbers will take some getting used to but it's not insurmountable. Personally I'm excited to try something new.

Ah gotcha, yea since you're converting in from an old unit system that makes sense. Personally I get the adherence to the old ways (tm) but with the modern flexibility it's just nice to be able to say 4 meters is 4 meters and you're done.

Tilesets are obviously a different thing but even at power of two somehow it always seems like artists find a way to make you need a bunch of weird one offs to build anything once the LD's start making anything that isn't a single floor with simple loopbacks.
 

Minamu

Member
Nov 18, 2017
1,899
Sweden
Ah gotcha, yea since you're converting in from an old unit system that makes sense. Personally I get the adherence to the old ways (tm) but with the modern flexibility it's just nice to be able to say 4 meters is 4 meters and you're done.

Tilesets are obviously a different thing but even at power of two somehow it always seems like artists find a way to make you need a bunch of weird one offs to build anything once the LD's start making anything that isn't a single floor with simple loopbacks.
Yeah one project had like 50 wall and floor pieces which was hell for those who used it. The meter project didn't suffer from such things as much. At least not from an LD perspective, not sure about artists since they are now wanting to move away from that system. We are starting to see a surplus of odd-sized extra pieces for sure.
 

Sean Noonan

Lead Level Designer at Splash Damage
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
384
UK
People have quite liked these timelapses in the past. I didn't film my entire screen and workflow this time, but I did have an almost daily snapshot of progress.



Feedback welcome :)
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
This might be too specific a technical question, but a lot of you use Unity and I got good help last time.
So I implemented a procedurally generated tileset, which wasn't too difficult (aside from some weird quirks, and still figuring out rule tiles), but I'm having trouble figuring out how to handle the colliders.

So for some context, I'm making a game with the same viewpoint as Pokemon and I'm wondering how you actually handle overlapping sprites like this (ie. where a character overlaps with part of a house or a sign). I'm assuming for structures the collider covers them in their entirety, but for NPCs and the player the collider only covers their feet so they can "walk up" to anything properly?

QpiTegz.png


So my problem is that unlike Pokemon, I also still need things like enemy attacks to collide with the entirety of the player. Should I just use a separate collider in that case (and have that one ignored by stuff like buildings/structures?)
 
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