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Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Thanks for the anti-clumping ideas, I'll think about that next too

I'm just trying to visualise how to implement the tokens. I was thinking a ds_grid where you'd list the tokens then list whatever object is currently in posession of it (so index 0 would be: token, attacker_ID) and then attackers would reserve or free up their slot depending on states/actions but it seems faster to just ask you how you did it! (Also searching for token AI programming implementation is noisy because token is already an accepted term in programming)

In my own implementation enemies can't steal tokens from one another, or care in any other way who has which token, so that information isn't stored anywhere. I simply have a publicly accessible list of currently unused tokens (tokens themselves are instances of an AttackToken class). Each enemy has a reference to the token they're currently holding (if any).

When an enemy wants to attack, it checks the list, and if there's any token on it, they take one (literally Remove () it from the list and store it within themselves). Then when they're done, they return it (Add ()) to the list and set their own reference to the token to null.

Relevant snippers of code, modified for simplicity. This is on EnemyManager, which is a singleton in the scene:
Code:
    List <AttackToken> _attackTokens = new List <AttackToken> ();
On EnemyManager's initialization, create as many tokens as needed and add them to the list of available tokens:
Code:
        for (int i = 0; i < numTokens; i++) {
            _attackTokens.Add (new AttackToken ());
        }

Then the functions to get and return tokens:
Code:
    public AttackToken GetAttackToken () {
        AttackToken ret = null;
        if (_attackTokens.Count > 0) {
             ret = _attackTokens.Remove (_attackTokens.Count -1);
        }
        return ret;
    }

    public void ReturnAttackToken (ref AttackToken token) {
        if (token != null) {
            _attackTokens.Add (token);
            token = null;
        }
    }

The AttackToken class itself could perfectly be an entirely empty class with this implementation (mine has a few more things like cooldowns, etc.)
Code:
class AttackToken {
}

Then on each enemy, when you want to attack, you call EnemyManager.GetAttackToken. If it returns null you can't attack; if it returns a token, you store it, and attack. When the attack ends, you call EnemyManager.ReturnToken.
 
Last edited:

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,570
Thanks! You are as always a font of wisdom. Now to translate that into GM code in my brain
 

jarekx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
625
In GM, I would probably just use a list and you could just pull it out of the list when an enemy wants to attack, and return it after. That would be the simplest way my brain would handle it. GM makes it harder without classes and what not.

The only time I've made something that acted in real time in GM I just used a priority queue in an object I make the controller. Enemies would queue themselves up when they wanted to attack and I would only let a certain amount attack at each time. Different enemy types and bosses had different priority for their actions, so they would jump ahead or behind when they wanted to act.
 

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,570
In GM, I would probably just use a list and you could just pull it out of the list when an enemy wants to attack, and return it after. That would be the simplest way my brain would handle it. GM makes it harder without classes and what not.

The only time I've made something that acted in real time in GM I just used a priority queue in an object I make the controller. Enemies would queue themselves up when they wanted to attack and I would only let a certain amount attack at each time. Different enemy types and bosses had different priority for their actions, so they would jump ahead or behind when they wanted to act.

sick, i was wondering how priority queues worked anyway, time to read the documentation!

And yeah, it is a lane based beat'em up. I love beat'em ups... I hate the z-axis. There's a few kicking around but not as many as I'd like. (And it's proving a real challenge for AI implementation haha)
 

SaberVS7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,292
Game Maker doesn't have classes!? *mind blown*

That's why I abandoned GameMaker and switched to Unreal (After a really brief flirt with Unity that ended with the whole "Epic bought Quixel" thing) above all else. GML is, in my opinion, a complete mess that invariably becomes Spaghetticode no matter how good a programmer you are if you're trying to make anything more complex than an 80's arcade game (IE, Hotline Miami or Gunpoint) - I honestly don't know how anything of a larger scale like Heat Signature or Hyper Light Drifter was ever remotely tenable in Game Maker.
 

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,570
its pretty good if you're trying to make an 80s arcade game so lucky me
 

Rolento

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,539
Longtime Gamemaker user and I have a hard time looking back after jumping to Unreal.

I have had to jump back into GM this past year for projects I was a part of for a children's art museum, but I really am avoiding it for my next projects. I'll even use Unity over GM, which I am even less comfy with than GM (thanks to so many years using GM).
 

jarekx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
625
Ya, GMs difficulties is why I'm looking to jump ship to either Unity,Godoy, or even RPG maker when I start my large project. RPGM has its own set of problems but it does have a lot of jumpstarts for my project specifically..it's just whether I want to put in the time there to change things to do what I need it to do, and make it look less like an RPG maker game.
 

jarekx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
625
This is making me feel bad for using Game Maker haha.

GM has issues but there's nothing wrong with choosing it. Some engines / tools are better suited to different types of projects but you can definitely makea lot of different projects work in each...just may put more work into one over the other. Don't feel bad if GM is your choice, plenty of different types of amazing games have been and will continue to be made with it.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
The biggest issue I see with Game Maker is that you need to purchase a super expensive and yearly license to publish on Switch, whereas with Unity (and I'm assuming UE) it's free. I know for many, publishing a commercial game on Switch may seem relatively far off, but it's easier than it seems, and I think most indie game devs should keep their eyes on that prize, if they want to make any money.

I've been having a look at the couple dozen games I have installed from the Itch.io super bundle recommendations, and about 90% of them, no exaggeration, are made in Unity. At this point I'm finding it harder and harder to recommend anyone to use GM... :/
 

Qwark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,068
This is making me feel bad for using Game Maker haha.

Don't worry, I'm still using it too, but that's because I want to release a Vita game in the year 2020/2021 :D

The biggest issue I see with Game Maker is that you need to purchase a super expensive and yearly license to publish on Switch, whereas with Unity (and I'm assuming UE) it's free. I know for many, publishing a commercial game on Switch may seem relatively far off, but it's easier than it seems, and I think most indie game devs should keep their eyes on that prize, if they want to make any money.

I've been having a look at the couple dozen games I have installed from the Itch.io super bundle recommendations, and about 90% of them, no exaggeration, are made in Unity. At this point I'm finding it harder and harder to recommend anyone to use GM... :/
I guess for me, $1500 (for all 3 systems) isn't a huge cost in the long run, considering just how much time I'm investing into this project. Don't get me wrong, it's a chunk of change, but it's not unobtainable. And imo, if I can't make that much from a PC version first, then a console port might be a non-starter to begin with.

(I hope this doesn't come off as preachy/"let them eat cake")
 

jarekx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
625
Porting is a big knock against RPG Maker for me as well. From what I can tell, there isn't even an option to port it to consoles. I'm hoping that's somethign they would have looked at for this upcoming version, but the details are sparse and I figure that would be something they would get out there with the initial announcement. I'm leaning more towards Godot and Unity regardless, as I'd eventually like a stab at some low-poly games. I"d love to a make a true successor to the Parasite Eve 1 combat system that I never got. lol.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,982
Sometimes I wondered if I should have just committed to making a game in RPG Maker. I literally owned most of them (I even had RPG Maker 3 on PS2!)

For all intense and purpose most of what I'm doing in my game is built in by default in RPG Maker. The biggest thing would likely be implementing some battle mechanics and figuring out how to use my own custom sprites.

But I guess to me there's something about making it from the ground up that is a bit more exciting. Still, I could have likely learned a lot of things from doing it. Pacing, level design, balance, see if my writing is actually any good.

But I can't lie, there is a stigma about RPG Maker in the community sadly.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Don't worry, I'm still using it too, but that's because I want to release a Vita game in the year 2020/2021 :D

Doesn't Unity support Vita as well?

I guess for me, $1500 (for all 3 systems) isn't a huge cost in the long run, considering just how much time I'm investing into this project.

Yeah, you're right, but it does add up, since you also have to buy the dev kits, etc. And the problem is that it isn't "in the long run" at all; $1500 gets you a one-year license as far as I know.

Don't get me wrong, it's a chunk of change, but it's not unobtainable. And imo, if I can't make that much from a PC version first, then a console port might be a non-starter to begin with.

Well, for one, having to spend your whole PC earnings just on a license kind of sucks. For another, porting to consoles is relatively easy and it's been proven once and again that a Switch version alone will almost certainly get you more money than a PC version, so you should probably aim for that no matter what.

(I hope this doesn't come off as preachy/"let them eat cake")

Hahah, don't worry, I'm Spanish and until Divinoids releases, without a source of income; I'm used to money being in different scales for people in more affluent contries or having day jobs. My one hope is that this makes me at least a small but actual chance to live off indie development, but let's see how realistic that is.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,982
What do you guys think? Not even waiting for thew new RPG Maker, would potentially making a short game in there possibly be enough (and releasing for free of course) to get some feedback on stuff like level design, writing and so on?
 
Last edited:

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,570
i would probably consider using a different engine for the next project (especially if I wanted to fuck with 3d models and cameras more) like Unreal or some other more widely available engine, but honestly, I'm a hobbiest and I already know how GM works to some extent and I can't be arsed relearning stuff right now
 

Deleted member 62221

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 17, 2019
1,140
What do you guys think? Not even waiting for thew new RPG Maker, would potentially making a short game in there possibly be enough (and releasing for free of course) to get some feedback on stuff like level design, writing and so on?
Would this be your first game? if it is then you should definitelly make it short and while I'm not a fan of RPG Maker I think you should just focus in using what you know for now. You can always learn new tech later if a new project requires it but more important than that is to actually finish something.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,982
Would this be your first game? if it is then you should definitelly make it short and while I'm not a fan of RPG Maker I think you should just focus in using what you know for now. You can always learn new tech later if a new project requires it but more important than that is to actually finish something.

I guess for context I have never released any video game. Free or Paid. The most I ever did was releasing a demo for an RPG Maker game on some site (thought it was indiedb but I don't see it there) that I don't think anyone ever played. The game I'm currently working on is my 3rd (4th?) "Real" Game Maker title that I've actually tried to really complete.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Would this be your first game? if it is then you should definitelly make it short and while I'm not a fan of RPG Maker I think you should just focus in using what you know for now. You can always learn new tech later if a new project requires it but more important than that is to actually finish something.

boromironedoesnotsimplymakeashortgame.jpg. :D

Keeping games short, reasonably scoped, and completable in the span of a few months, is probably the best superpower in existence. Derek Yu was blessed with it (he created Spelunky in the span of one summer), and if I could ask for one, it would be that, not flying or mind control or any of that useless crap.

Mere mortals like us have to make do with trying really, really, really fucking hard to downscope and pray for the best.

Hello. Liking the passion in here. Any tips for someone looking to start coding?

Coding is really only a part of game development. I'm always recommending these Michigan University courses. Note: To audit them for free you need to go to the individual course pages, not the whole specialization.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,982
boromironedoesnotsimplymakeashortgame.jpg. :D

Keeping games short, reasonably scoped, and completable in the span of a few months, is probably the best superpower in existence. Derek Yu was blessed with it (he created Spelunky in the span of one summer), and if I could ask for one, it would be that, not flying or mind control or any of that useless crap.

Mere mortals like us have to make do with trying really, really, really fucking hard to downscope and pray for the best.

Should I try though? Or should I just stick with my current project? I just feel like I need to do something. Literally made a whole thread about never getting anything done.
 

Weltall Zero

Game Developer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
19,343
Madrid
Should I try though? Or should I just stick with my current project? I just feel like I need to do something. Literally made a whole thread about never getting anything done.

Can you downscope the hell of your current project? If yes, you may want to try that. Otherwise, a small (super small, like the smallest thing imaginable) game may be better. It's much, much easier to make a small game and then build from that, than to complete a large game in one go.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,982
Can you downscope the hell of your current project? If yes, you may want to try that. Otherwise, a small (super small, like the smallest thing imaginable) game may be better. It's much, much easier to make a small game and then build from that, than to complete a large game in one go.

Not really. I mean in ways it's already downscoped already. It's a fairly basic old-school-esque RPG with some unique mechanics (lite Survival elements) and a snow-focused setting (so there isn't *too* much diversity in environments). Length wise it's not meant to be anything too crazy.

I just got some weird hangups I think.
 

Deleted member 62221

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 17, 2019
1,140
Not really. I mean in ways it's already downscoped already. It's a fairly basic old-school-esque RPG with some unique mechanics (lite Survival elements) and a snow-focused setting (so there isn't *too* much diversity in environments). Length wise it's not meant to be anything too crazy.

I just got some weird hangups I think.
Don't overthink it. You are getting stuck thinking you need a new engine or feedback, nothing of that matters for your first game (especially if you don't expect to make money of it). Don't think, just act (also if you don't care about sales and marketing maybe don't announce that you are "gonna" do something in social media because that gives you dopamine for doing nothing).
Also a way of reducing scope is setting deadlines and cutting anything that won't fit in that deadline (kill your darlings kinda situation).
You don't need to love your first game (most first games suck anyway, I know my first game sucked even without the mixed reviews in Steam reminding me of that), you just need to finish it.
 

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,570
this is advice i'm trying desperately to adhere to:

finish game first

then look over game that you actually have and that people have played, and build up

like right now all i want to do is literally build a level which is move Left to Right, have 2 battle zones of mooks to kill, then fight a boss, with music and art. I've seen in-browser games that can do that. It doesn't appear hard. Turns out lol its super hard! I'm glad this thread is here to kick me up the butt sometimes when I get stuck in the mud.
Hello. Liking the passion in here. Any tips for someone looking to start coding?

It really depends what you want to do. Like starting coding in ren'py is different from wanting to make a platformer, racing game, 3rd person shooter etc etc
 

jarekx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
625
Yea, that's definitely where I'm at as well. For now, i focused on making a floor of dungeon..and it works although every room is just a battle for now. Now i'm working on finishing a simple inventory for holding weapons/armor..as well as displaying what cards are tied to each piece of equipment when you are viewing it. Once I have that implemented at a baseline level, I'll add a method for leveling up and changing equipment, and then head back to the dungeon to add equipment upgrading, shops, a boss, and dungeon floor switching. Once I can put all that together, i'll have an ugly game that works from start to finish that I can go in and expand upon.

My goal is to have this project done by the end of summer, while I flesh out ideas for my next project.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,982
I've just been sitting here thinking about this- and probably honestly what is getting me so hanged up is the lack of focusing one thing. Like I should just get the combat fully working. I should just solely focus on that. Rather than needing to do everything at once I just need to focus on one thing.
 

Poodlestrike

Smooth vs. Crunchy
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
13,513
This is definitely something I'm sort of struggling with. The impulse is to try and do everything all at once. Buddy I know who's actually worked on a real game before helped me get stuff sorted out into "needed for minimum viable" and "not needed" and we're just trying to get that up as flexibly as possible.
 

Deleted member 62221

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 17, 2019
1,140
Testing my XCOM prototype with some Mass Effect models (because why not?)



I doubt Bioware would make a game like that so I guess it's up to me to create a mixture of XCOM and space piracy.
 

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,570
Testing my XCOM prototype with some Mass Effect models (because why not?)



I doubt Bioware would make a game like that so I guess it's up to me to create a mixture of XCOM and space piracy.

man adding context to something really makes it seem more real huh. sick
 

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,570
thats not even accounting for QA haha

games have so many moving parts its a fucking miracle anything ever happens imho
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,970
I'm doing recolouring again because apparently I have a problem and can not be stopped.

I feel like having an entirely blue background, whilst good for readbility between it and the foreground, is really detracting from the vibrancy of the rest of the level. I guess thats mainly because the primary gameplay takes place in the "negative space" so the background is dominant in the viewport. I'm attempting some recolours to try and add a little splash into the background. I think I'm on the right track. Im concerned about negatively impacting the readbility, but I think that the experiments I have done so far at the very least make a more interesting composition to look at.

Any Thoughts? (Also keep in mind that the "close" bg buildings are on a slight parallax so when the player starts moving they'll move at a different rate to the foreground)

Original:
QUmyc43.png


Recolour:
5z7TbNT.png
 

AfterCoffee

Member
Feb 18, 2019
118
Started with gamedev a couple years ago and now i have actually finished a "real" game, it is of course janky as shit=D but still proud!
Check it out!
www.youtube.com

Five Steps From Hell(Launch Trailer)

Launch trailer for the indie horror game Five Steps From Hell. Releases on Itchio in June and Steam in July 2020. https://madeatnight.itch.io/five-steps-from...
quality of the trailer is bad,.. i used windows photos app to make the trailer XD
environmental art is from the assetstore and all characters is made with adobe fuse, aside from music, i am no artist unfortunately.
 

AfterCoffee

Member
Feb 18, 2019
118
I'm doing recolouring again because apparently I have a problem and can not be stopped.

I feel like having an entirely blue background, whilst good for readbility between it and the foreground, is really detracting from the vibrancy of the rest of the level. I guess thats mainly because the primary gameplay takes place in the "negative space" so the background is dominant in the viewport. I'm attempting some recolours to try and add a little splash into the background. I think I'm on the right track. Im concerned about negatively impacting the readbility, but I think that the experiments I have done so far at the very least make a more interesting composition to look at.

Any Thoughts? (Also keep in mind that the "close" bg buildings are on a slight parallax so when the player starts moving they'll move at a different rate to the foreground)

Original:
QUmyc43.png


Recolour:
5z7TbNT.png
the newer version has more depth to me=)
 

SpaceKangaroo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
331
I'm doing recolouring again because apparently I have a problem and can not be stopped.

I feel like having an entirely blue background, whilst good for readbility between it and the foreground, is really detracting from the vibrancy of the rest of the level. I guess thats mainly because the primary gameplay takes place in the "negative space" so the background is dominant in the viewport. I'm attempting some recolours to try and add a little splash into the background. I think I'm on the right track. Im concerned about negatively impacting the readbility, but I think that the experiments I have done so far at the very least make a more interesting composition to look at.

Any Thoughts? (Also keep in mind that the "close" bg buildings are on a slight parallax so when the player starts moving they'll move at a different rate to the foreground)

Original:
QUmyc43.png


Recolour:
5z7TbNT.png

Maybe saturate the furthest layer more? The middle layer looks a bit too saturated in comparison. Could be my monitor tho :D

What res is your character at compared to the assets? he looks a little blurry. Do like the clean look overall!
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,970
the newer version has more depth to me=)

Maybe saturate the furthest layer more? The middle layer looks a bit too saturated in comparison. Could be my monitor tho :D

What res is your character at compared to the assets? he looks a little blurry. Do like the clean look overall!

Thanks guys! I asked for some help via some other pixel art channels and I've been given some advice on hue shifting and ways to desaturate without making everything look monochrome, so I'm going to try that later today.

To answer your question about the character, it's the same target resolution as the rest of the assets, however due to some mistakes on my part I have had to enable bilinear filtering (with an added shader) in order to prevent pixel jitter. Its on my list of things to improve, but in motion it doesn't look too bad some I'm not focusing on it right now.
 

Jintor

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,570
Didn't feel like doing too much today so just added a few test tiles and set up source control for this project (finally)

I really should have done it from the start, but ya know.
 

FLCL

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,524
Thanks guys! I asked for some help via some other pixel art channels and I've been given some advice on hue shifting and ways to desaturate without making everything look monochrome, so I'm going to try that later today.
Yeah hue shifting would make the newer version even better. What pixel art channels are that? Would love to get into those as well.

I've started to animate my pixel art now and wow walk/run cycles are tedious... Doing top down ARPG = lots of animations huh? I can see myself enjoying it once I've spent more time on it but yeah right now it feels like tons of work. Going to keep it very simple atm and keep adding to it over time. Animating my slime enemy was fun though :P Next up is sword slash animations!
 

SpaceKangaroo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
331
Thanks guys! I asked for some help via some other pixel art channels and I've been given some advice on hue shifting and ways to desaturate without making everything look monochrome, so I'm going to try that later today.

To answer your question about the character, it's the same target resolution as the rest of the assets, however due to some mistakes on my part I have had to enable bilinear filtering (with an added shader) in order to prevent pixel jitter. Its on my list of things to improve, but in motion it doesn't look too bad some I'm not focusing on it right now.

Looking at your previous post to see you're using Unity; are you using pixel snapping with the pixel perfect camera?
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,970
Looking at your previous post to see you're using Unity; are you using pixel snapping with the pixel perfect camera?

I'm using a pixel perfect camera, but the player's position is not clamped to pixel perfect locations as it is based on a physics body. There are some other underlying issues too

Yeah hue shifting would make the newer version even better. What pixel art channels are that? Would love to get into those as well.

I was asking in a pixel art discord: https://discord.gg/TE9bcZW
 

TheIdiot

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,729
I'm doing recolouring again because apparently I have a problem and can not be stopped.

I feel like having an entirely blue background, whilst good for readbility between it and the foreground, is really detracting from the vibrancy of the rest of the level. I guess thats mainly because the primary gameplay takes place in the "negative space" so the background is dominant in the viewport. I'm attempting some recolours to try and add a little splash into the background. I think I'm on the right track. Im concerned about negatively impacting the readbility, but I think that the experiments I have done so far at the very least make a more interesting composition to look at.

Any Thoughts? (Also keep in mind that the "close" bg buildings are on a slight parallax so when the player starts moving they'll move at a different rate to the foreground)

Original:
QUmyc43.png


Recolour:
5z7TbNT.png

This looks cool! I personally like the blue background, but, the problem with the 2nd imagine in my opinion is that it feels a little empty. I would make the most of that empty space and breathe a little life into the streets. Maybe something as simple as a parked electric scooter, for example.

Disclaimer: I have no artistic inclination
 

SpaceKangaroo

Member
Oct 28, 2017
331
I'm using a pixel perfect camera, but the player's position is not clamped to pixel perfect locations as it is based on a physics body. There are some other underlying issues too

Shouldn't be an issue with pixel snapping/upscale to render texture enabled? unless that causes an underlying issue! The render texture can be a bit of a faff if you have custom shaders but it'll save a lot of pain when it comes to supporting different resolutions/aspect ratios!
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,970
Shouldn't be an issue with pixel snapping/upscale to render texture enabled? unless that causes an underlying issue! The render texture can be a bit of a faff if you have custom shaders but it'll save a lot of pain when it comes to supporting different resolutions/aspect ratios!

Oh thats interesting, do you have any links to documentation about that? It might be worth checking out.

My underlying issue is that I produced all my assets for a native res of 720p, which obviously doesn't scale correctly into 1080p. That was causing horrible distortion when I attempted to play on the latter as I wanted my visible screen space to stretch to fit. I circumvented having to re-author all my assets by implementing a shader that takes bilinearly-filtered sprites and scales them with a combination of both nearest neighbor and bilinear filtering. It's used on all the assets, but for some reason isn't as good on the player.


This looks cool! I personally like the blue background, but, the problem with the 2nd imagine in my opinion is that it feels a little empty. I would make the most of that empty space and breathe a little life into the streets. Maybe something as simple as a parked electric scooter, for example.

Thank you! Additional street clutter is planned, I have a few bits and pieces waiting to go in :)
 
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