Hitman 3 Now EGS Exclusive

Alexandros · Aug 20, 2020

RightChandMan said:
I will never understand the EGS hate. I love steam, but don't mind using EGS. IO needs to get paid and if this move helped fund Hitman 3, then good for everyone involved.

I can try and offer an explanation. Ideally services should offer customers more choice and compete with each other by offering better features, prices, quality of service or all of the above. A company attempting to compete by paying developers money to remove a game from a rival service distorts proper competition as there is no need to offer anything to customers if your store is the only one selling the game. The end result is that customers have less choice and pay the same amount of money for objectively worse quality of service.

Ploid 6.0 · Aug 20, 2020

karnage10 said:
I still don't get why these types of comments are allowed on Era.

I just wish there was pressure on publishers to at least have a alternative to Steam for their games on PC. I don't understand why it would be a problem to offer one, especially a publisher like Square which uses Denvo on everything, so I doubt they use only Steam for most of their games to prevent piracy. When it's a game I really want, I suck it up, and buy on Steam. I learned recently they even allow refunding back to your card instead of having money stuck in your Steam wallet (got a game code after I pre-ordered on Steam).

When Square put Final Fantasy XIV on Windows Store, that gave me hope for the publisher, even though I don't want to buy games there, because of how inaccessible the Windows Store game folders are. Modding, tweaking ini's, and even deleting stuff is annoying or impossible, that is likely to change for some games at least. Just Cause 4 coming to EGS gave me hope again, yet Avengers is Steam only, maybe for now, no one ask the developers or publisher.

SteveWinwood · Aug 20, 2020

well the subreddit is handling this well

they're not

SolidSnakeUS · Aug 20, 2020

That's fine, I'll wait a year for the Steam version and by then it'll be cheaper and include all DLC/content that gets added during that time :).

Remember, Control had a full year exclusivity on EGS and it's coming to Steam on the 27th with all DLC for $40. Sounds like a good deal to me :).

Lord Fanny · Aug 20, 2020

So, can you transfer your save and levels over if you have the Steam version? It seems like some people say you can, but can't find anything official about it, and seems like this thread is going so fast it's hard to keep up

Cecil · Aug 20, 2020

Stock said:
While I usually prefer Steam mostly for an OCD aesthetic, I am glad that IO will be able to keep the lights on with this deal. Don't understand the vitriol when these kinds of deals help really help smaller publishers/devs stay in business especially when the world economy is heading off a cliff. Any stability for smaller studio houses is a good thing in my book.

Is it my role, as a potential customer, to worry about the finances of a company like I/O? Fnances I have absolutely no insight in?

If they want my support, then don't support the practice Epic employs to withold games from other competitors, that extends to not only Steam, but GOG as well. I can give them four options on PC where they can sell their games that I would be absolutely fine with (Steam, GOG, Humble, Itch.IO). If they then chose to go exclusively to a fifth option, then I don't feel bad about putting that money to another dev instead.

And I mean, with this deal, they don't need me as either a paying customer, or a player of their game.

Siresly · Aug 20, 2020

Well that's a bummer and disappointing.
EGS games are sometimes 599:-. at least 150:- more than I typically pay for new AAA PC games.
IOI is great, and the Hitmans are two of my favorite games of the past decade, but I'm not buying Hitman 3 if that ends up being the price.

With IOI selling their game to Epic, they don't really need to rely on us buying it. Good for them, I guess.

Deleted member 18324 · Aug 20, 2020

shoemasta said:
Yeah... the EGS hate is way overblown here.

Yeah, whyever would anyone be upset at the 3rd game in a series they follow suddenly shifting stores?

As usual the only defence anyone can ever muster for EGS is either a) lying about other platforms or b) intentionally downplaying a shitty practice.

DOBERMAN INC · Aug 20, 2020

IO Monthly postponement in 3...2...

DXLelouch24 · Aug 20, 2020

This is why even tho im not on any companies side i secretly want Epic to lose that lawsuit.They need to be humbled imo.

nded · Aug 20, 2020

If anyone deserves the cash it's IO. I can wait until 2022.

GeoGonzo · Aug 20, 2020

A shame for us, but good on IOI, get that Fortnite money. See you guys in 2022.

AshenOne · Aug 20, 2020

spineduke said:
It's what I heard but never seen the numbers to back it up. Wouldn't be surprised though, the immersive sim type stuff tends to do horrible. I really dont get why IO keep insisting on making these, but whatever, im thankful.

Well idk about the factual sales of the game but this is from SteamDB:

5,300,000 .. 5,400,000 by PlayTracker
5,000,000 .. 10,000,000 by SteamSpy
795,320 .. 2,385,960 based on reviews(total number of steam reviews multiplied by 20 and 60)

so going by the reviews numbers, it looks to have at least 2m owners on PC from its launch in 2018. It also was in a humble bundle some months ago. Can't say that these are 'bad' numbers on STEAM.

361,001 is the all-time concurrent players PEAK from december 19th, 2019. I'd say that its at least easy to conclude that the game was a hit on PC at launch as no other game has even close to 100K concurrent numbers years after launch while this one had three hundred and sixty one thousand. So at least on PC, this game was a hit. Don't know about consoles but either way, the steam audience being punished even though they supported the series is a shame.

Foffy · Aug 20, 2020

SteveWinwood said:
well the subreddit is handling this well

they're not

Same as the Discord. I guess the abysmal sales of the 2018 title and WB pulling out of the third game meant that they had to find a cushion somewhere else. Their confidence on this game considering the setbacks they had a studio always seemed odd to me, but I guess it makes sense when parts of your product have been moneyhatted so there's some degree of safety.

dep9000 · Aug 20, 2020

Epic continuing to make moves!

Sandersson · Aug 20, 2020

I was kinda on the fence about it already but this just sealed the deal. First Hitman im going to totally skip.

Fisty · Aug 20, 2020

Completely understandable, considering they are self-publishing. Doing co-marketing and PSVR with Sony along with this EGS deal will definitely give them some cushion to hold out and wait for the sales to go through.

I'll be there day 1 on PS5 + PSVR

Bunkles · Aug 20, 2020

RightChandMan said:
I will never understand the EGS hate. I love steam, but don't mind using EGS. IO needs to get paid and if this move helped fund Hitman 3, then good for everyone involved.

Keep in mind, I say this eventhough I agree I'm happy IO is getting paid and I harbor no ill will towards them for taking the deal.

As a hardcore Steam user, EGS is grossly inferior for my PC setup. I use Steam Link a lot, I make use of Steam cloud (multiple devices), I like Steam Achievements as I love to check against rarity, I like how Steam keeps track of my time played, etc. All of that is gone or hindered by Hitman 3 going to EGS.

PhillyCheeseHorse · Aug 20, 2020

Not a huge fan of Epic in general, but game dev is a miserable, expensive industry at this scale, and I can't blame IO for looking for a safety net outside of just sales. Especially with how inconsistent the sales of the new Hitman 1 and 2 have been, given the PR bungle of 1's episodic stuff. It's all well and good to not like Epic, but I don't think Valve's all that magnanimous a company either, and I can understand prioritizing keeping your studio doors open, especially in this economy.

vlaar · Aug 20, 2020

We believe in player choice....

...as long as that choice is on the Epic Game Store.

Meriadock · Aug 20, 2020

I'm sad that pc gamers have to deal with this shit just like console gamers now.. :/

Instro · Aug 20, 2020

SteffK said:
Yeah, whyever would anyone be upset at the 3rd game in a series they follow suddenly shifting stores?

As usual the only defence anyone can ever muster for EGS is either a) lying about other platforms or b) intentionally downplaying a shitty practice.

I don't think many really care about defending EGS. Most people just don't really care about using another launcher, and don't understand the extreme level of vitriol in response to it in comparison to any number of other issues going on in the gaming industry or surrounding it.

I mean it's a 3rd game in a series that has been struggling to sell, that the devs have had to resort to self publishing because of those issues. People ranting about this decision, or saying they will never buy this game, etc., look crazy.

Kareha · Aug 20, 2020

Well as they've already been paid for the game then they don't mind waiting a year for my money.

deadman322 · Aug 20, 2020

guess i'll just wait for it to be given away for free.

discotheque · Aug 20, 2020

Probably makes a lot of financial sense given how the last game sold. I'm just happy they were able to complete the trilogy, pretty amazing given all the setbacks they've had.

Dr PeterVenkman · Aug 20, 2020

EDIT: I misread the article on VG247. you WILL be able to bring forward progress. so that's good

Vuze · Aug 20, 2020

Fuck this, but well, I can wait.

EvilBoris · Aug 20, 2020

AshenOne said:
Well idk about the factual sales of the game but this is from SteamDB:

5,300,000 .. 5,400,000 by PlayTracker

5,000,000 .. 10,000,000 by SteamSpy

795,320 .. 2,385,960 based on reviews(total number of steam reviews multiplied by 20 and 60)

so going by the reviews numbers, it looks to have at least 2m owners on PC from its launch in 2018. It also was in a humble bundle some months ago. Can't say that these are 'bad' numbers on STEAM.

361,001 is the all-time concurrent players PEAK from december 19th, 2019. I'd say that its at least easy to conclude that the game was a hit on PC at launch as no other game has even close to 100K concurrent numbers years after launch while this one had three hundred and sixty one thousand. So at least on PC, this game was a hit. Don't know about consoles but either way, the steam audience being punished even though they supported the series is a shame.

It's been repeatedly given away , deep discounted and as you say, included in humble bundle.
I don't know if it's the same on Pc, but on console the client is also a demo and is free to download, so that would also inflate the figures.

discotheque · Aug 20, 2020

Is launching a game from a different client such a problem that some of you would wait a whole year to play something you were excited for? I can't empathize with that feeling at all, but whatever

AshenOne · Aug 20, 2020

shoemasta said:
Yeah... the EGS hate is way overblown here.

discotheque said:
Is launching a game from a different client such a problem that some of you would wait a whole year to play something you were excited for? I can't empathize with that feeling at all, but whatever

You don't really read EGS threads on era do you? Iam being honest, there's a million times(a bit of an exaggeration ofc) when people have explained why they hate it. I'll give you a hint. Its about epic paying money to take away these experiences from Steam customers for a whole year while also offering a barebones service in comparison with Epic Game Store. The service steam provides includes inhome streaming, Family sharing(whole libary being shared), great regional pricing(better than egs for some), steam input(can connect and play with any sort of controller natively in game), people can generate wallet credit thanks to steam's trading cards, in game market items and steam wallet codes to buy the games and more. They're not 'shills' for valve, a lot of us actually benefit from the service and want to play our games on it? Its easy to understand no?

EvilBoris said:
It's been repeatedly given away , deep discounted and as you say, included in humble bundle.
I don't know if it's the same on Pc, but on console the client is also a demo and is free to download, so that would also inflate the figures.

Outside of the humble bundle, i don't think its been repeatedly been given away. You might be mixing it with Hitman 1: The Complete Season IMO. There is the free trial on steam ofc.

Stock · Aug 20, 2020

Cecil said:
Is it my role, as a potential customer, to worry about the finances of a company like I/O? Fnances I have absolutely no insight in?

If they want my support, then don't support the practice Epic employs to withold games from other competitors, that extends to not only Steam, but GOG as well. I can give them four options on PC where they can sell their games that I would be absolutely fine with (Steam, GOG, Humble, Itch.IO). If they then chose to go exclusively to a fifth option, then I don't feel bad about putting that money to another dev instead.

And I mean, with this deal, they don't need me as either a paying customer, or a player of their game.

Totally understand your choice to wait until Hitman 3 comes to your preferred platform. Not saying you need to do anything, but the angry mob mentality of "**** Epic" or "**** insert dev here" on forums like ERA/Reddit/etc is disappointing.

As an gaming enthusiast and caring human being I do wish self publishing developers like IO the best since they make excellent games and want them to be able continue making stuff and continue to employ their talented devs. Feels like the "serve me the customer at your expense" sorta mentality is entitled and ignores our uncertain and nightmarish economic reality where everyone except the biggest players have to scramble to make ends meet.

etta · Aug 20, 2020

I still have to play 1 and 2, but this is a trash decision and I'll wait for a deep discount on 3 on Steam before they get my money.

justiceiro · Aug 20, 2020

Uzzy said:
Snapping up games that are already well into development, in some cases days away from release on Steam, is not 'funding games that the market won't'

Of course it's not epic intention, but it's a welcome side effect. There is no way to interactive would take the deal if the believe they would sell better without any kind of exclusivity.

EvilBoris · Aug 20, 2020

AshenOne said:
You don't really read EGS threads on era do you? Iam being honest, there's a million times(a bit of an exaggeration ofc) when people have explained why they hate it. I'll give you a hint. Its about epic paying money to take away these experiences from Steam customers for a whole year while also offering a barebones service in comparison with Epic Game Store.

Outside of the humble bundle, i don't think its been repeatedly been given away. You might be mixing it with Hitman 1: The Complete Season IMO. There is the free trial on steam ofc.

yeha maybe, it was the parks level and another level from S1 that was given away. I view most of them in my head as the same game

scarybore · Aug 20, 2020

First Hitman game since the original that I won't be buying at launch (if ever), feels bad man.

I get why devs go for the easy money to go exclusive, but in the end it's just a fuck you to a set of consumers and in the long term is likely to hurt you due to loss of mindshare.

Reckheim · Aug 20, 2020

Meriadock said:
I'm sad that pc gamers have to deal with this shit just like console gamers now.. :/

... its not the same. not even close.

Gelf · Aug 20, 2020

It's my favourite game series of the generation but still I will wait as long as I have to until it's available elsewhere.

discotheque · Aug 20, 2020

AshenOne said:
You don't really read EGS threads on era do you? Iam being honest, there's a million times(a bit of an exaggeration ofc) when people have explained why they hate it. I'll give you a hint. Its about epic paying money to take away these experiences from Steam customers for a whole year while also offering a barebones service in comparison with Epic Game Store.

Yeah I know that's why people say they hate it, that's just not a big deal at all for me. Hitman is a majority single player game with very limited multiplayer components, I am totally okay if the client is barebones for games like these. I just need it to download and launch the game.

SpartyCrunch · Aug 20, 2020

IO has always seemed to be right in the bubble between success and closing up shop. Glad they're getting a little financial stability and guaranteed revenue from Epic!

Uzzy · Aug 20, 2020

Stock said:
Totally understand your choice to wait until Hitman 3 comes to your preferred platform. Not saying you need to do anything, but the angry mob mentality of "**** Epic" or "**** insert dev here" on forums like ERA/Reddit/etc is disappointing.

As an gaming enthusiast and caring human being I do wish self publishing developers like IO the best since they make excellent games and want them to be able continue making stuff and continue to employ their talented devs. Feels like the "serve me the customer at your expense" sorta mentality is entitled and ignores our uncertain and nightmarish economic reality where everyone except the biggest players have to scramble to make ends meet.

For me at least, while I hope developers and artists and creators do well, I've long since learned that my ability to ensure they do well is exceedingly limited. I buy their games, and the devs get bought and shuttered. I kickstart their games, and the devs get bought and shuttered or go bankrupt. I don't buy their games, and they get bought and shuttered or don't and prosper. My individual purchase won't make a substantial difference to their financial wellbeing. So I'd rather spend my money on my games that cater to my interests, one of which is keeping the PC gaming market open.

SneerfulOwl · Aug 20, 2020

I can wait 12 months for it to come back on steam. I'll get it on bargain price, just like what I did with Metro Exodus.

Bufbaf · Aug 20, 2020

Meriadock said:
I'm sad that pc gamers have to deal with this shit just like console gamers now.. :/

Holy shit you DONT need to BUY the EGS for hundreds of dollars. You download a client. That's literally it.

My god those comparisons are getting ridiculous. And neither had IO had a gun hold to their head by Tim Sweeney to publish on Epic. This is good for them. You not buying the game is not good for them.

If you don't like Epic, fine. I can swing with that, and it's completely understandable I guess. But please stop acting like they bully people into their store, or somehow prevent any user to download the game from their store just because they prefere shitty store A to shitty store B.

Sketchsanchez · Aug 20, 2020

AshenOne said:
You don't really read EGS threads on era do you? Iam being honest, there's a million times(a bit of an exaggeration ofc) when people have explained why they hate it. I'll give you a hint. Its about epic paying money to take away these experiences from Steam customers for a whole year while also offering a barebones service in comparison with Epic Game Store. The service steam provides includes inhome streaming, Family sharing(whole libary being shared), great regional pricing(better than egs for some), steam input(can connect and play with any sort of controller natively in game), people can generate wallet credit thanks to steam's trading cards, in game market items and steam wallet codes to buy the games and more. They're not 'shills' for valve, a lot of us actually benefit from the service and want to play our games on it? Its easy to understand no?

Outside of the humble bundle, i don't think its been repeatedly been given away. You might be mixing it with Hitman 1: The Complete Season IMO. There is the free trial on steam ofc.

Yes its very easy to understand why such news may be a bummer or annoying.

But the vitriol is over the top. At the end of the day, we're talking about store fronts here.

Deleted member 2809 · Aug 20, 2020

Alexandros said:
The end result is that customers have less choice and pay the same amount of money for objectively worse quality of service.

You left out the part "developers get financial stability" but who gives a shit about them anyway huh

AshenOne · Aug 20, 2020

discotheque said:
Yeah I know that's why people say they hate it, that's just not a big deal at all for me. Hitman is a majority single player game with very limited multiplayer components, I am totally okay if the client is barebones for games like these. I just need it to download and launch the game.

I mean thats fine if YOU are ok with it. Nothing wrong with that, personal preferences and all. Just explaining why in general you see the hate on EGS around era and elsewhere and a lot of it.

Sketchsanchez said:
Yes its very easy to understand why such news may be a bummer or annoying.

But the vitriol is over the top. At the end of the day, we're talking about store fronts here.

Well regarding the 'vitriol', Epic's been hard at work in achieving such vitriol. From Calling PC gamers 'pirates', bailing out in the mid 2000s, to taking out and making a newly launched title on Steam(Metro: exodus) and making it EGS exclusive, claiming to stop doing it but still later on did a 180 and said that 'nope, we'll keep doing it'. Tim sweeny talking about open ecosystems, options, 'being american and allowing free access from one platform to another', while other pubs like MS don't do it, Epic buying up Psyonix, making rocket league EGS exclusive, taking it out from the platform that made it such a huge success in the first place' and now this.

And then you talk about just storefronts when people literally can't buy games on egs when they can on steam thanks to its wallet credit system through which money can be generated to selling of in game items like trading cards, lootcrate keys or you can buy steam wallet codes and redeem wallet credit! There are also local payment methods that Steam supports in various regions that EGS doesn't, linux and mac version suffer and get delayed too for some of the games that have them. Its a whole lot of baggage epic carries honestly and its all their fault not to mention, they're rhetoric of valve and steam being the bad guys and them being the heroes of all devs and all has also muddied the waters between the PC audience and epic and most of the games media just vivilifies valve since epic started this bs in 2018. Its all a culmination which you call 'vitriol'.

Airbar · Aug 20, 2020

Bufbaf said:
Holy shit you DONT need to BUY the EGS for hundreds of dollars. You download a client. That's literally it.

My god those comparisons are getting ridiculous. And neither had IO had a gun hold to their head by Tim Sweeney to publish on Epic. This is good for them. You not buying the game is not good for them.

If you don't like Epic, fine. I can swing with that, and it's completely understandable I guess. But please stop acting like they bully people into their store, or somehow prevent any user to download the game from their store just because they prefere shitty store A to shitty store B.

It's tiring seeing this trotted out repeatedly when it is decidedly untrue.

shoemasta · Aug 20, 2020

SteffK said:
Yeah, whyever would anyone be upset at the 3rd game in a series they follow suddenly shifting stores?

As usual the only defence anyone can ever muster for EGS is either a) lying about other platforms or b) intentionally downplaying a shitty practice.

Or that EGS standardizes a more pro-game developer cut?

AshenOne said:
You don't really read EGS threads on era do you? Iam being honest, there's a million times(a bit of an exaggeration ofc) when people have explained why they hate it. I'll give you a hint. Its about epic paying money to take away these experiences from Steam customers for a whole year while also offering a barebones service in comparison with Epic Game Store. The service steam provides includes inhome streaming, Family sharing(whole libary being shared), great regional pricing(better than egs for some), steam input(can connect and play with any sort of controller natively in game), people can generate wallet credit thanks to steam's trading cards, in game market items and steam wallet codes to buy the games and more. They're not 'shills' for valve, a lot of us actually benefit from the service and want to play our games on it? Its easy to understand no?

I never said I don't understand. But the melodrama in the past 9 pages is certainly a bit much, no?

Bufbaf · Aug 20, 2020

Airbar said:
It's tiring seeing this trotted out repeatedly when it is decidedly untrue.

Please tell me what's "decidedly untrue" about it.

elyetis · Aug 20, 2020

Alexandros said:
I can try and offer an explanation. Ideally services should offer customers more choice and compete with each other by offering better features, prices, quality of service or all of the above. A company attempting to compete by paying developers money to remove a game from a rival service distorts proper competition as there is no need to offer anything to customers if your store is the only one selling the game. The end result is that customers have less choice and pay the same amount of money for objectively worse quality of service.

Even the 'pay the same amount of money' is arguably not even true ( thought depending on region it can go one way or another ). In a way we should be happy they did some of the moves they did because now we have definite proof that EGS exclusivity deal can have a big negative impact on price, cf

elyetis said:
What is the biggest differentiator for you ? how much it cost to buy a console compared to the ( free ) price of a new launcher ?

If so, let's ignore any other issue other than price then, and take Metro Exodus as an example, a steam key before the game became exclusive : 39.5€; EGS price in europe after the exclusivity deal : 59.99€.
If every games were to be similary impacted, the increase in cost given how much I spend in games, would cover more than the cost of a ps4 pro.. every year.

Obviously the usual shitpost(er) will ignore things like that.

-Tetsuo- · Aug 20, 2020

SteffK said:
Yeah, whyever would anyone be upset at the 3rd game in a series they follow suddenly shifting stores?

That is the question I keep asking myself, actually.

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