Is there a name for this school of thought? Curious to know what it's about.
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Hillary Clinton visits the Howard Stern show for her first interview
- Thread starter Dalek
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On foreign policy? Quite a few actually. Anything to reduce the grip of the United States on the world. Also a non-zero chance we'd be on a war with Iran under Hillary while Trump is literally too stupid to start wars.
I would argue that Trump's lack of focus and clear objectives has actually led to a few "less negative" outcomes. Do you remember how, just months ago, it seemed like everyone, even here, was bracing for an inevitable war with Iran? Trump actually ended up cutting ties with some of the more hawkish of his subordinates over that because he clearly just lost interest.
Historically speaking, arising conflicts involving the US don't just get defused like that under a "regular" President.
I do believe a Clinton office would've eventually let the Kurds behind to die just like the US has done half a dozen times over the past century, even if under different circumstances. And no, I don't think she would've accelerated the immigration conflict like Trump did.
I obviously don't have a mirror that lets me see into an alternative reality, hence why I used the word "potentially" in my original post.
The fact that people who presumably were politically aware of the world around them during the Clinton administration, or at least the Obama administration would feel so appalled by an assertion like that is very interesting. "Trump makes the US look bad to its allies" is a concern that no one but Americans have, and a really minor one in terms of global politics.
Liberal Democrats are disgustingly bad at foreign affairs, and, yes, often just as bad or even worse than Republicans. The widely-loved JFK is the guy who set in motion a military dictatorship that murdered and persecuted thousands in my country. My grandfather was arrested and had to hide from the government for having Marx in his library because a Democrat didn't want to give communists any leeway in a country in a different hemisphere. That was not the GOP's doing - well, it would've been, were they in power at the time. But so would be Hillary's.
Hillary and Obama threads are pretty much unreadable at this point. People just saying nonsense without anything to back it up.
There's 2 types of threads where I always know what I'm getting into before I enter. Star Wars sequels, and Hillary Clinton threads.
OP
OP
Trump is not literally too stupid to start wars. He hired architects to do just that and they quit out of criminality and fear. They may be gone, but the plans they wrote remain. Stupid starts wars. Evangelicals who want eschaton or to bring about the end of days. He staffed his cabinet with believers who desire this more than hurting brown people. Killing everyone should their whole dream go tits up.
Stern was right all along, this interview humanizes Hillary immensely and is exactly what she needed on the campaign trail
That face when you say that Hillary would've been worse than Trump. Whatever lets you sleep at night, I guess.
I too like to make shit up, and pretend it's something I can criticize someone for.
I understand your stance and I simply disagree.
There have been certain benefits to Trump's inability to get anything substantial done on any front for sure. He does not have the attention span to cause acute damage and has been lucky enough to fumble through his term without getting involved in any more major military conflicts. It is possible that Hillary in office would have lead to different circumstances that would leave parts of the world in a worse state than they currently are.
I think the best way to describe it (and the view from the left) is that Trump is basically somewhere between Chaotic Neutral and Chaotic Evil and Hillary floats between an odd balance of Lawful Evil and Neutral Good.
Edit: Not believing in Climate Change or preparing one of the biggest countries in the world to ween off dead-end industries that may doom the entire human race is a big strike against him too.
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Which war did Trump start again? I can name quite a few that Hillary was directly involved in waging.
Really hard to believe that considering she would have to tear up her would-be predecessor's nuclear deal to do it. As far as I remember, Republicans were the only ones wanting to do that in 2016 and the current president actually did. We're lucky he didn't start a war after he hired John Bolton as his National Security Advisor.
Incredible post. Trump is about to be impeached and acquitted, damaging our republic and super powering the executive branch for the forever future, and you think her 'foreign affairs' positions would be worse? Why, because she wouldn't ask for help to cheat in elections? Maybe she'd not bomb others for personal favors! But what happens when someone doesn't play ball? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
What a post dripping with rose-tinted lunacy. And you're a fucking mod. This website continues to impress and sadden me simultaneously.
Cool, super clear 100%. How many tide pods do I need to eat to get on this level? I am on a budget
Ok. Weakening of U.S. soft power probably appeals to huge chunks of the planet.
Just today, though 700k Americans are gonna lose access to food because of Trump. Children are being deprived and abused and scarred at the border. Climate change denial. America is deeply flawed, but he's like acid corroding everything making everything so much worse.
The impulsive chaos Trump rained down in Syria this year, abandoning the Kurds for nothing, no rhyme, no reason. He's been tentative in foreign affairs. He's getting his footing now. If he gets anymore time in the Oval Office, he'll be sending out our "mercenary" forces to wreak havoc elsewhere according to his mood swings.
Elevating Trump even it's just to demonize Clinton: it's breathtaking.
I'm into this just so I can see the Hillary-shaped hole in the ground after she just eats shit on a legendary scale
"Seize the Legislature" was crystal clear the other day.
Other people's sacrifices are a small price for him to pay to get what he wants.
It absolutely did.
Anybody in this thread, including me, that acts like they know whats happening is full of shit. With that being said This does feel like a toe in the water kinda thing.
Trump is currently fucking with Ukraine who is occupied by Russia who he asked to help win an election. One of those two before the other. And different elections. Also, North Korea wants to give us a Christmas present, but they still haven't figured out what. Iran is going wonderfully. The situation is how, you say, fluid.
But if you mean, did Hillary start any wars? By all means, name conflicts she started.
I should amend what I wrote. Trump probably bailed on the Kurds and got some personal benefit from Erdogan or someone. So, he likely he didn't do it for "nothing." There was some outrage, but he suffered no real consequences. If Trump lasts, he'll be doing shit like that again.
I don't really have a response to this, other than to quote for posterity in case the original copy is in some way altered.
Leftist Anti-imperial Accelerationism - The idea that a hard drift right will somehow result in a course correction to the left thanks to diminished soft power and a domestic drift to the left due to the cruelty of right wing policies. In reality, it tends to be that it empowers right wing elements elsewhere and just drifts the entire global population to the extremes where the right often ends up gaining in power.
That's fair. I chuckled at the alignment references, even though I would classify Hillary squarely at Lawful Evil there, haha.
I do appreciate you taking the time to actually read and engage with my posts, though. It seems like exchanging perspectives is not in vogue nowadays. Easier to just project stuff onto others and drive-by away.
This is indeed a school of thought I encounter frequently, but I don't identify with accelerationism, and I never said that I prefer Trump over Hillary.
Saying one candidate would have been better or worse when it comes to Foreign Policy is a dead end, for one because its just conjecture and for two its essentially an Imperial office and a project that will continue either way. The hope would be someone would be elected and break that but it would have ABSOLUTELY not have been Hillary Clinton
I dunno how you can see 8 years of Bush then 8 years of Obama and think things would ever get anything but worse
I dunno how you can see 8 years of Bush then 8 years of Obama and think things would ever get anything but worse
american politics is an arguing husband and wife fighting over the wheel of a car while one of them is actively trying to murder the other and somehow everyone else crashes except them
You come across as really hostile. Is this some forbidden thing or something? People don't know 100% either way what she is thinking and in her words
"Never say never."
Yeah, you're right. It is what it is - anything beyond that is indeed conjecture.
Believing the probability of war with Iran would be higher under a democratic administration rather than a republican administration is outright ignorant given the circumstances and rhetoric advanced by the parties.
Exactly. This was literally less than a month ago. I don't understand why a handful of people are so upset at me for taking her being coy about it at face value.
The longest lasted wound that Trump provided us was the complete destruction of civil discourse and the ability for people to be completely blind to fact. He gave rise to cultists that do anything that their dear leader says. They lie. They are corrupt. They disregard the rule of law under the disguise of political ideology and "alternative facts".
Trump turned half the country into this, and they have intellectually put up a wall of reason between us and them, and they use that wall to disregard ALL the pressing issues affecting us.
Hillary wouldn't have been near as bad for the country.
Trump turned half the country into this, and they have intellectually put up a wall of reason between us and them, and they use that wall to disregard ALL the pressing issues affecting us.
Hillary wouldn't have been near as bad for the country.
I was positive that the left was going to be screaming kids in the back–showing their parents indecipherable memes on their phones—that caused the parents to crash the car. I give this metaphor a C
but people aren't talking about generic republican and generic democrat. They're talking about trump, who is seemingly too cowardly and easily bored to make a real effort at starting wars and seeing them through, and hillary, who is on the hawkish side for a democrat.
The real issue is that the military industrial complex wants to wage war regardless of who or what party is currently in power.
Yeah that is incredibly ignorant. Republican admins have been the catalyst to nearly every war and war by proxy, then unfortunately because of these shitty positions democrat admins have to hold these positions because of hostile foreign powers and Influence.
people who are fully leftist have a weird ass position when it comes to foreign influence and power and while I can understand some frustration of how America has acted in the past and present there are other parties like China and Russia waiting looking to be right in the middle of those positions.
Ortix
They we're one of Trumps best allies during the Republican Primaries
They actively sought to triangulate their own actions in a way that would harm other candidates and benefit Donald Trump
So to take Bush down, Clinton's team drew up a plan to pump Trump up. Shortly after her kickoff, top aides organized a strategy call, whose agendaincluded a memo to the Democratic National Committee: "This memo is intended to outline the strategy and goals a potential Hillary Clinton presidential campaign would have regarding the 2016 Republican presidential field," it read.
"The variety of candidates is a positive here, and many of the lesser known can serve as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right. In this scenario, we don't want to marginalize the more extreme candidates, but make them more 'Pied Piper' candidates who actually represent the mainstream of the Republican Party," read the memo.
"Pied Piper candidates include, but aren't limited to:
• Ted Cruz
• Donald Trump
• Ben Carson
We need to be elevating the Pied Piper candidates so that they are leaders of the pack and tell the press to [take] them seriously. "
Clinton's team in Brooklyn was delightedly puzzled by Trump's shift into the pole position that July after attacking John McCain by declaring, "I like people who weren't captured."
Eleven days after those comments about McCain, Clinton aides sought to push the plan even further: An agenda item for top aides' message planning meeting read, "How do we prevent Bush from bettering himself/how do we maximize Trump and others?"
In fact, Mook took him so seriously that his team's internal, if informal, guidance was to hold fire on Trump during the primary and resist the urge to distribute any of the opposition research the Democrats were scrambling to amass against him. That hoarding plan remained in place deep into 2016...
when Cruz and Trump emerged as pack leaders, and Podesta was telling fundraisers in closed-door meetings that he thought the Texan would win—that the team realized it was not prepared, strategically or tactically, for what many saw as a dream scenario.
If Trump was going to stay competitive, a rethink would soon be needed.
www.politico.com
They we're one of Trumps best allies during the Republican Primaries
They actively sought to triangulate their own actions in a way that would harm other candidates and benefit Donald Trump
So to take Bush down, Clinton's team drew up a plan to pump Trump up. Shortly after her kickoff, top aides organized a strategy call, whose agendaincluded a memo to the Democratic National Committee: "This memo is intended to outline the strategy and goals a potential Hillary Clinton presidential campaign would have regarding the 2016 Republican presidential field," it read.
"The variety of candidates is a positive here, and many of the lesser known can serve as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right. In this scenario, we don't want to marginalize the more extreme candidates, but make them more 'Pied Piper' candidates who actually represent the mainstream of the Republican Party," read the memo.
"Pied Piper candidates include, but aren't limited to:
• Ted Cruz
• Donald Trump
• Ben Carson
We need to be elevating the Pied Piper candidates so that they are leaders of the pack and tell the press to [take] them seriously. "
Clinton's team in Brooklyn was delightedly puzzled by Trump's shift into the pole position that July after attacking John McCain by declaring, "I like people who weren't captured."
Eleven days after those comments about McCain, Clinton aides sought to push the plan even further: An agenda item for top aides' message planning meeting read, "How do we prevent Bush from bettering himself/how do we maximize Trump and others?"
In fact, Mook took him so seriously that his team's internal, if informal, guidance was to hold fire on Trump during the primary and resist the urge to distribute any of the opposition research the Democrats were scrambling to amass against him. That hoarding plan remained in place deep into 2016...
when Cruz and Trump emerged as pack leaders, and Podesta was telling fundraisers in closed-door meetings that he thought the Texan would win—that the team realized it was not prepared, strategically or tactically, for what many saw as a dream scenario.
If Trump was going to stay competitive, a rethink would soon be needed.
They Always Wanted Trump
Inside Team Clinton’s year-long struggle to find a strategy against the opponent they were most eager to face.
www.politico.com
The real issue is that the political state of affairs was that Obama had made a deal with Iran. And Hilary, as the democrat, would not fight with that deal. With respect to this fact alone, it is definitely the more likely case that war with Iran is more likely under Trump. They were definitely stoking the flames. My personal feeling is the only thing that "stopped it" (assuming it doesn't happen in the next 4-5 months as an election distraction) is how unpopular it would be. I mean come on, are you people even paying attention? With what substantive basis would anyone claim the opposite? With an argument that doesn't interface with any of the material geopolitical reality that has manifested between Iran and the U.S. and between Iran and it's two political parties?
Obama did it, and both the Fox News crowd and progressive Democrats seemingly ignored it. Heck, it only really became an issue that the media actively discussed after those facilities had been in operation for something like three years or more.
Did Obama Administration Build Cages That House Immigrant Children?
While under scrutiny for treatment of migrants, the Trump administration has been shifting blame to its predecessor.
www.snopes.com
"They weren't following the iran deal" would be all it would take. Hell, the trump administration tried to pull the same justification from moral authority even though we had already pulled out of the deal, lol
As a south american with strong ties to the U.S due to family and friends, i can agree 100% with this.
South Americans, specially in the left, absolutely despise democrats like Clinton and Obama when it comes to foreign policy. I would add that on the recent Dilma impeachment, after it was all done we had a senator who flew to the US to tell democrats that the job was done. (Aloysio Nunes). We despise those democrats the same way we despise traditional republicans.
The reactions you´re getting just goes to show how little people care about foreign policy and how it effects real people. When you have friends dying or old family members dead because of those polices pushed in South America for decades, it´s a grudge that we won´t let go and won´t go soft on Hillary and friends just because Trump is Trump.
At least Trump is a moron and he didn´t really care for South America. Hillary was dangerous because she actually had plans for us, including a free trade zone.
The good thing out of all of this is that the Clintons are pretty much history when it comes to US politics.
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