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I think the fact that Passione has already moved on to another project next season is pretty strong evidence against it. I'll be happy to be surprised but I'm going into the next two weeks expecting things to wrap up.
I just watched the newest episode.
Passione: Should we focus the series on Satoko and Rika's conflict making them transcend humanity and becoming magical world hoppers or should we just reveal the mysteries that were already mostly answered (without even really answering them in depth)? Then they somehow went with the second one.
Really, this episode felt like what Sotsu should have been all along, but compressed into a single episode, so everything comes out of nowhere. I think it also basically confirms my speculation that most of Sotsu was Passione filler. That human/witch Satoko split from Tatariakashi ended up completely irrelevant. We basically could have skipped from Gou 24 to this point without missing anything aside from Hanyuu getting captured.
Really, this episode felt like what Sotsu should have been all along, but compressed into a single episode, so everything comes out of nowhere. I think it also basically confirms my speculation that most of Sotsu was Passione filler. That human/witch Satoko split from Tatariakashi ended up completely irrelevant. We basically could have skipped from Gou 24 to this point without missing anything aside from Hanyuu getting captured.
Episode 14 random thoughts:
Well, that was something. Satoko's multi-loop rant has to count among the best villain explains their motivation speeches ever. Loved the callback to the Tsumihoroboshi roof battle. I was surprised at just how few fucks Rika gave about Satoko being a looper or about her motivation. She didn't feel a little bit guilty about her role in things, but she was pretty indifferent back then though so it tracks. I guess she still feels something even in Bern mode, but she's definitely no Keiichi when it comes to this stuff.
The second half got a little too fantastical for my tastes with the DBZ battle and time warping stuff. I'd prefer things be kept at least somewhat grounded. I actually kind of expected that sort of thing to happen considering how much Umineko meta nonsense has leaked into this series, but I figured it would take place in the sea of fragments at least.
Eua's whole "I wonder what will happen" spiel at the end had me half expecting her to turn straight to the camera to break the fourth wall and say "I can't wait to see what happens next week!" Will we actually get an explanation for how Hanyuu is a part of her or will we be forced to live with "something something memory device" as an explanation? Maybe the part of her that hates humanity split when Rika was born?
One of my blue truths regarding the sword actually panned out. Seems only Rika and Satoko could see it.
Eua said "certainty." Eua is Lambda confirmed.
Anyone still think this will go another season? I'm not sure how Rika and Satoko will resolve things but I really want to see Satoko's good self make another appearance, come to some realization and get them both to stand down. I suspect Rika will end up going to St Lucia without Satoko but they'll resolve to remain friends. Hopefully Hanyuu can erase their memories somewhat because man are they ever broken. The new club member designs everyone was waiting for will show up briefly in the epilogue minus the whole sinister filter.
The second half got a little too fantastical for my tastes with the DBZ battle and time warping stuff. I'd prefer things be kept at least somewhat grounded. I actually kind of expected that sort of thing to happen considering how much Umineko meta nonsense has leaked into this series, but I figured it would take place in the sea of fragments at least.
Eua's whole "I wonder what will happen" spiel at the end had me half expecting her to turn straight to the camera to break the fourth wall and say "I can't wait to see what happens next week!" Will we actually get an explanation for how Hanyuu is a part of her or will we be forced to live with "something something memory device" as an explanation? Maybe the part of her that hates humanity split when Rika was born?
One of my blue truths regarding the sword actually panned out. Seems only Rika and Satoko could see it.
Eua said "certainty." Eua is Lambda confirmed.
Anyone still think this will go another season? I'm not sure how Rika and Satoko will resolve things but I really want to see Satoko's good self make another appearance, come to some realization and get them both to stand down. I suspect Rika will end up going to St Lucia without Satoko but they'll resolve to remain friends. Hopefully Hanyuu can erase their memories somewhat because man are they ever broken. The new club member designs everyone was waiting for will show up briefly in the epilogue minus the whole sinister filter.
Shame on those of us who thought R07 still gave a shit about these characters beyond coming up with nonsense saying they are somehow actually some character from a different story of his.
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Maybe the Teppei redemption stuff might end up sticking in the end at least.
So let me get this straight, they butchered Higurashi's canon as a way to advertise the new VN and Umineko?
This feels really frustrating. Some thing should be left well alone. So fucking dumb.
This feels really frustrating. Some thing should be left well alone. So fucking dumb.
Thing is why bother? Unineko is long finished and Ciconia only has one episode with the second nowhere in sight
I think if the intention were advertising we'd get more direct name and visual connections. Two random "Vier" namedrops with no further context and some lines from Umineko you'd only recognize if you read Umineko in the first place won't really advertise those series in a major way. I think this is more about his views of some characters changing while writing those other stories and that ends up reflected in Higurashi itself when going back to it.
I was Eua this episode. I spent the -entire- time laughing.
And then the DBZ fight started and I lost my shit
And then the DBZ fight started and I lost my shit
Huh. I got my wish apparently. Although not in anime form. The Higurashi Gou manga's sequel will be called Higurashi Jun, following a different route with different answers from the ones given by Sotsu. The set up at the end of the last chapter of Gou seems to suggest it's going to focus on Rika vs Satoko
(Rika just got the memory upgrade and Onigari no Ryuou talk, so Satoko doesn't seem to know she remembers being killed by her in the classroom. The Gou manga ends with Witch Eyes Rika observing Satoko in the next world after the classroom scene).
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I am not sure but I said the same when I heard of this "remake" then saw it is a sequel that undoes the story of the first series.
True but maybe they would connect it next episode.
Sigh so we are getting even more stuff...Huh. I got my wish apparently. Although not in anime form. The Higurashi Gou manga's sequel will be called Higurashi Jun, following a different route wtih different answers from the ones given by Sotsu. The set up at the end of the last chapter of Gou seems to suggest it's going to focus on Rika vs Satoko(Rika just got the memory upgrade and Onigari no Ryuou talk, so Satoko doesn't seem to know she remembers being killed by her in the classroom).
Waiting nearly two anime seasons to get back to the gun scene sure paid off. This episode was fucking crazy. I'm all in for R07's two-episode wild ride.
Still, fuck Satoko lmfao jfc. Rika hesitating with the sword and I'm just here shouting DO IT! How the fuck are you gonna forgive Satoko after she shoves a dull fork in your throat and splashes hot oil in your face, of course in addition to all the other shit she did?!
If they don't go full Umineko next episode then damn lol. With everyone watching Gou and saying WHOOOOOAA THIS IS GONNA BRIDGE HIGURASHI AND UMINEKO, I actually read Umineko during the seasonal break between Gou and Sotsu because I was really into Gou and wanted to get the full context for what would unravel in Sotsu. If we don't even see them directly become Bern and Lambda then that's a bit of a bummer. Still I can appreciate Gou and Sotsu for getting me to read Umineko because that was a fucking amazing read.
Still, fuck Satoko lmfao jfc. Rika hesitating with the sword and I'm just here shouting DO IT! How the fuck are you gonna forgive Satoko after she shoves a dull fork in your throat and splashes hot oil in your face, of course in addition to all the other shit she did?!
If they don't go full Umineko next episode then damn lol. With everyone watching Gou and saying WHOOOOOAA THIS IS GONNA BRIDGE HIGURASHI AND UMINEKO, I actually read Umineko during the seasonal break between Gou and Sotsu because I was really into Gou and wanted to get the full context for what would unravel in Sotsu. If we don't even see them directly become Bern and Lambda then that's a bit of a bummer. Still I can appreciate Gou and Sotsu for getting me to read Umineko because that was a fucking amazing read.
I think those miko outfits pretty much killed any chances of direct references to Bern/Lambda aside from the kind of indirect ones we've already seen (Like how Satoko in this episode is revealed to have dropped her usual speech mannerisms, only keeping them as a mask, which eliminates another one of her differences from Lambda, meanwhile Rika at the end of the episode had that talk about creating a new universe with Satoko which was similar to some of Bern's lines to Lambda in ep8, not to mention both just constantly appearing in different fragments without even dying after a certain point).
Still can't get over the oil. Ugh. Satoko has done far worse things to Rika than Takano ever did, or any of the other friends did even when they were L5 of a deadly syndrome ffs.
And she's gonna get away with all of it next episode. All of it!
And she's gonna get away with all of it next episode. All of it!
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OP
OP
This can only get Better if Battler punches Eua next episode and turns to camera while saying "see you in Umineko Gou!" and fires off magical Kamehameha.
Also Satoko getting redemption/free pass after this is piss poor writing, I don't think anyone likes Satoko anymore, Rika included.
I have zero fucking idea what Ryu07 wanted from this series. Zero. Money I guess?
Also Satoko getting redemption/free pass after this is piss poor writing, I don't think anyone likes Satoko anymore, Rika included.
I have zero fucking idea what Ryu07 wanted from this series. Zero. Money I guess?
The fact that Rika's reaction to the reveal was basically "you need to knock this shit off and learn to study!" was not what I expected but I've decided it just boils down to "it's a looper thing, you wouldn't understand." For loopers desensitized to death these grisly murders are basically childish pranks and this whole story amounts to little more than a tiff between friends told in the most over the top way possible. The extremity of the violence and action onscreen contrasted with the pettiness of their arguing was kind of hilarious. As far as getting away with it goes, I think even the OG series pretty much expects us to adopt Satoko's attitude about past fragments and be content as long as the kids can work things out and make better decisions in the final world. It's not like Shion ever did anything to redeem herself in Meakashi, she just made better choices the next time and we don't worry about it. It's a story about second chances, not redemption.
Meakashi Shion ended up dead though. It's not like she led a happy life afterwards. On the other hand, this episode even had Satoko shouting about how she loves her power. The show this time seems to be asking the viewers to just accept them like this. At the end of the episode, Satoko smiles and weakens in the race to the sword after Rika says she'd get rid of everything else for Satoko too, meanwhile Rika never held the deaths Satoko caused against her, just complained about getting dragged back to Hinamizawa.
Just last week we had Hanyuu talking about how giving Rika and Satoko powers was a sin, but I'm getting the impression the show now wants the viewers to go along with the loopers and their weird sense of morality.
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"Satoko" is not L5 and did arguably the worst stuff so far over the pettiest shit. The only defense is that Satoko died and this "Satoko" is just a rabid dog that needs to be put down. But I can already see them flying off giggling as witches in the final episode, sigh.
I will be seriously surprised if Rika stabs Satoko.
What needs to happen is Keichi becomes a looper, fixes this shit and deletes Gou and Sotsu, then has his mind wiped.
And that sucks, is the thing. It's so backward. Original Higurashi never treats grisly murders as childish pranks, not once. Rika continues to be traumatized by the violence she encounters right up to the very end. 100 years of murder were enough to get her to stop reacting with terrified horror, but she never stops being upset and heartbroken about it. Every death is a tragedy in Higurashi; most of them are a joke in Gou/Sotsu.
Not to mention, of course, that even if we wanted to do the "murder's just a fun prank, it's all a game" thing, we've already played that character-story out much more richly in Umineko! Except in that novel it's treated as, y'know, a major flaw for the characters who think that way -- something they grow out of as they develop, not into like Satoko has. Plus the whole fact that the Seacats characters have much less ridiculous reasons for being the way they are... As opposed to "math is hard tho".
...Y'know, I think a big part of why the magic stuff in Gou/Sotsu bugs me so much is because it's such a huge step back in that way. Umineko actually gives the whole "magic changes your values" concept the proper time to be worked through (it's basically the entire arc of chapter 3, and continues to matter until the very end of Chiru), and then after spending that effort, it still ultimately grounds its morality firmly in the realm of humans. Any and every "connection" between Gou/Sotsu and Umineko falls flat on its face before ever leaving the starting line just from the fact that their conceptions of magic are so hugely, painfully incompatible -- ie, Umineko magic means something thematically, where in Gou it means nothing in any sense or capacity.
Not just Shion, pretty much everyone who falls to paranoia and gives up never meets a happy ending, Keiichi survives in Tata but he ends up alone, insane and traumatized forever, the original show really nails that a happy ending can only be achieved by working together and "doing things right", as Keiichi says in Mina while trying to save Satoko. Shion goes from being arguably the most violent and selfish of the L5 to being someone willing to die for these people (especially Satoko) and at the end of her journey she's rewarded with being able to meet Satoshi again.
Even Takano dies in every scenario where she enacts the GHD, she only survives in Matsuri, where she's made to pay for her sins.
Also personally I don't buy the whole "Looper are completely detached from the gameboard", this is Rika in Mina:
She could be cynical and detached, but she never stopped seeing her friends as people even at the end of her journey.
About this point, I feel like R07 doesn't understand how much power Satoko had, people can sympathize with Takano and
Yasu
Kinzo
Meanwhile Satoko is the equivalent of someone getting cheat codes IRL and the best use she can find for them is murdering her friends (Which is apparently more fun than studying!).
The point is that Rika rejected losing her humanity back in Minagoroshi, rejecting the idea of being a "witch" (and then it happened again in Saikoroshi), while now Satoko and Rika are seemingly just embracing it. The show is apparently portraying it as a happy bonding moment in spite of even Sotsu itself beforehand showing it as a tragedy when Satoko went full witch. It seems like the ending we're heading towards will go with them being witches and that being just fine rather than some tragedy where they lose everyone/everything. Maybe they will just return to normal lives in the end, just flashing red eyes for no reason.
I was kind of expecting something like this, but I thought it'd be portrayed as a tragedy with their renewed bond being the silver lining, but the way this episode ended (and Satoko herself was generally written throughout it), I don't think they're getting any kind of punishment or loss at all.
Will all the foreshadowing of memory bleed across fragments, and the 'evil' / angry shots of the friends in the OP and season key art amount to anything next episode?
I've been waiting this whole time for the rest of the gang to get flashes of Satoko's actions and all realize how garbage she is.
I've been waiting this whole time for the rest of the gang to get flashes of Satoko's actions and all realize how garbage she is.
I imagine those designs will show up briefly in the epilogue. They'll just be happy and smiling without the sinister filter.
As far as the memory bleeding stuff is concerned that wasn't really foreshadowing anything. As soon as it was brought up they went straight into showing how it affected Teppei and Takano. The memory retention has almost always been used as a means for a character to reflect on their own bad decisions. If it was used for remembering bad interactions with friends Keiichi probably would have ended up being even more distrustful of everyone.
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What the heck just happened. Am I supposed to assume that in all those loops when the two were fighting that Rika died first in each and every one? And where they just appearing at different points randomly or were they living out those fragments up until they fought so they could continue their conversation, it makes no sense no matter which way you look at it lol, and again later when they are both trying to get the sword and seem to be endlessly looping because neither want to win, we never see either of them die here so they just seem to be randomly looping.
I get what they were going for but it wasn't done particularly well.
Also all the talk of "Miracles" and "Certainty" is defo pointing to a Bernkastel and Lambdadelta ending.
Coincidently I'm playing Umineko at the moment and just got to the part where Lambda is introduced and Bern explains that she was born when Lambda trapped her in a game.
I get what they were going for but it wasn't done particularly well.
Also all the talk of "Miracles" and "Certainty" is defo pointing to a Bernkastel and Lambdadelta ending.
Coincidently I'm playing Umineko at the moment and just got to the part where Lambda is introduced and Bern explains that she was born when Lambda trapped her in a game.
Either that or Eua just got rid of that rule for the sake of the more entertaining option of letting them fight.
The loopers don't live out their full lives. They drop in and take over the body of the version of themselves in that fragment. Satoko seems to somehow be able to anticipate when Rika is going to drop in.
I literally almost had a panic attack or something while doing that when that one episode aired lmao.
Since then , I dont eat anything when watching Higurashi lol.
@OT - Loved seeing SSB Rika fighting SSJ Satoko lol
Initially when we are actually shown deaths it's always Rika, following that rule. It's just that after a certain point they start switching between fragments with no deaths at all. The sword chase especially makes it look like that's actually happening since Satoko obviously isn't taking out Rika between cuts - if that happened she'd get the sword.
Wasn't this established? I thought it was a rule that Satoko gets a two-hour advantage in a fragment before Rika will pop in.
It was never directly explained. People just assume it due to the Nekodamashi loop where Rika already woke up with her belly opened, but Sotsu didn't explain that at all in the end (also the Nekodamashi Angel Mort loop in the manga, where it's shown Rika woke up in the Angel Mort itself, with infected Keiichi already rampaging around, but that seems less relevant now that we know the manga is going in a different direction with the Answer Arcs).
A studio committing to another Umineko anime when the first one failed hard would be a true miracle.
There will be an event in December, which probably will have some new announcement based on a 4chan rumor that got basically everything about this episode right.
I think the events of this last episode could have worked if they didn't try to pretend everything was fine and happy. The whole message is kind of muddled too. Rika and Satoko abandoned their humanity, which used to be a big point in the original Higurashi, but here it's just glossed over.
It tries to pass it off as being a message about letting go, but a few minutes after Rika left Lambdatoko is already talking about going after Rika in another world and seemingly actually leaves epilogue Satoko's body at that point.
It tries to pass it off as being a message about letting go, but a few minutes after Rika left Lambdatoko is already talking about going after Rika in another world and seemingly actually leaves epilogue Satoko's body at that point.