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Its kinda crazy that all of this is coming about because... Satoko is bad at school. Like even before she first started the loops by killing herself and Rika she had 10 whole years of experience of studying and being at St. Lucia but apparently cannot retain any of that knowledge? She would rather die endlessly and kill Rika than using this opportunity to her advantage and getting what she wants.
I'm enjoying everything else but this is a really weird sticking point for me, it's so absurd
I'm enjoying everything else but this is a really weird sticking point for me, it's so absurd
While I have several problems with the show so far, this particular point doesn't bother me. It's not just that Satoko hates studying, it's that even if she does it, even if she spends like 5-6 years of torture (for her) to learn everything, next loop she'll still be stuck in St. Lucia. She will still have to attend the classes that she hates, she will never be able to make friends in that school, Rika will still hang out with her new friends a significant amount of time, etc. St. Lucia will never work for Satoko no matter how much she tries, basically. What she wants and what Rika wants are fundamentally incompatible.
So from what Satoko was told Rika will only keep her memory if she dies before Satoko does. It would be hilarious if Rika won by Satoko accidentally killing herslf first and resetting Rika, making all her torture wasted.
Yeah, it's a little more than she doesn't want to study. When Satoko goes to Saint Lucia she literally has no one else to fall back on since the club was the really only family she had left. Since her grades are so low she's thrown into classes where studying is all, and everything she does with nothing else. She's basically stuck in a toxic environment where it's impossible for her to succeed, and yeah just like real life usually forcing people to cram for studying doesn't actually help them improve anything, especially if they have any sort of learning disability. As someone who has to deal with Inattentive ADHD I can personally vouch for that myself.
I read through Higurashi and Umineko for the first time this year and loved them both dearly (as in maybe my favorite games of all time dearly). I'm so disappointed in this show. Satoko was my absolute favorite character (she seriously left such a good impression on me) and I just can't believe what has been done to her character here. I empathize deeply with her experiences at St. Lucia, but the ease at which she became capable of murder and suicide (Rika was terrified almost every time she had to die in Higurashi even when she knew she would loop back) is just baffling to me. This isn't the Satoko I liked so much. Everything about this show seems so cynical and heartless compared to Higurashi/Umineko, and I don't see how R07 is going to correct that at this point. It feels so off brand.
I mean no matter how much you slice it, at the end of the days this drama is about two teen girls not wanting to go to the same high school (And the average teen is way more mean and self-assorted than Rika!!). Satoko can endure a bunch of loops (And they all include re-doing Matsuri every time, good thing Rika seem to be able to perform THE MIRACULOUS MOVEMENT THROUGH A DAMN TIME STOP CONSISTENTLY THAT WAS SO MIRACULOUS IT LITERALLY MADE HER THE WITCH OF MIRACLES!! every time) and 100 years of Rika's torture porn movie but 3 years at the school she doesn't even need to go is what breaks her.
If Featherine wanted to be entertained sounds like she needed to make every St.Lucia's special class student loop, it sounds like a pretty good way to get witches!!!
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The way Satoko gets used to dying quickly is likely meant to show her strong will.
I think the lack of monologues combined with the often bland directing in Gou hurts some of the stuff it tries to do though, when it doesn't involve events that can be visualized in a physical way. The Satoshi scene in the newest episode was clearly meant to be a big moment where Satoko left her old self behind and yet it just comes and goes.
I think it's a case of them trying to cram too many plotlines into one episode, and you're just bombarded with so much information it didn't really stick out as much as it should. Episode 8 was probably the best directed episode of Gou, and shows they're capable of getting Higurashi's themes across when they dedicate some time to it.
We got two episodes left, and considering the name of the arc and where we're at, I still don't see Gou really ending without a full answer arc. They've already delayed it and faked it being a remake once before, so I don't trust them, but we'll see what happens.
Preview picture for the next episode
And now Satoko has a sweet tooth and spends her lonely looping nights eating sweets to contrast with Rika's drinking. This is probably the most hilarious and random Lambdadelta nod yet. They could have shown her being into sweets all along and no one would have thought anything about it, but they're doing it specifically in the episodes that are adding a bunch of Umineko references.
And now Satoko has a sweet tooth and spends her lonely looping nights eating sweets to contrast with Rika's drinking. This is probably the most hilarious and random Lambdadelta nod yet. They could have shown her being into sweets all along and no one would have thought anything about it, but they're doing it specifically in the episodes that are adding a bunch of Umineko references.
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It's sad to see Satoko go full villain, and it was sad to see her fail each loop. I don't know likely it is, but I'm still hoping That ending certainly did have Lambda vs. Bern vibes to it. I am enjoying what I'm watching, though. I have no idea how this could be cleanly resolved in just two episodes, though. If there's another set of episodes coming, I'll happily watch.
I put off watching this for so long but I finally got into it.
I read Umineko before Higurashi and I went into the series expecting Satoko to be the villain all along considering Rika/Satoko likeness to Bern/Lambda and their close relationship.
Entertaining show once we got past the initial repeats.
I read Umineko before Higurashi and I went into the series expecting Satoko to be the villain all along considering Rika/Satoko likeness to Bern/Lambda and their close relationship.
Entertaining show once we got past the initial repeats.
AT-X's programming grade was updated for next month, listing Gou up episode 30. So, another cour seems basically confirmed at this point. Note that there is an interview with the director though where he reaffirmed that Gou is ending with episode 24, so we're likely getting a title change, like the early "Higurashi Sotsu" listing.
What do I win for calling it? On a serious note, I hope the next few episodes give us a good answer arc.
AT-X's programming grade was updated for next month, listing Gou up episode 30. So, another cour seems basically confirmed at this point. Note that there is an interview with the director though where he reaffirmed that Gou is ending with episode 24, so we're likely getting a title change, like the early "Higurashi Sotsu" listing.
I'm curious to see how close I got with some of my guesses for the first three arcs.
That episode hit me like a truck. At least for me, I sometimes reminisce on life where my abuser wasn't that person, but someone who actually cared for who I was and not what I wasn't or what I didn't do.
I'm not convinced the show is going to handle this with the nuance it deserves though.
I'm not convinced the show is going to handle this with the nuance it deserves though.
satoko told him no, because she remembered his abuse. miracle teppei--one in a million, and only with supernatural help--realized he was a monster. he tried to apologize and his victim still said no. I don't think that's a "redemption arc." this teppei still only is aware of a tiny fraction of the ripple effect his abuse has caused, and we're also being shown that this is something that is so deeply hurtful to satoko it still affects her this deeply after becoming a murder-suicide witch for over one hundred years.
imo it feels like the parallel here is satoko's own actions, not a redemption of teppei. the hurt satoko is inflicting on others is compounding. satoko is still deeply hurt by teppei. the cycle of violence between generations (whether they regret it or not) is a running theme in like... every WTC story. satoko is not going to "win" rika the way she thinks she's going to. Like, boiled down to its essence, this episode's story was "if an abuser literally magically realized what they did was wrong, would their victim forgive them?" and satoko answered "no," and this train is pulling into the station for her as well. teppei's regret didn't excuse his actions, and satoko's regret isn't going to excuse hers.
probably, anyway. we'll see how it plays out and to be clear I certainly don't want teppei to just Become Good unilaterally after one bad day or whatever, but I think given this is the same franchise that has rosa, kinzo, etc in it we're most likely not going to see that. in fact, putting the pieces together: it looks more like the compounding memories is going to result in teppei attacking keiichi, because this isn't watamadashi teppei (clue: the housing situation).
incredibly Evil wildcard prediction: this Teppei is Bern's piece, and this is Rika's below the belt response to Satoko/Lambda bringing Akasaka into things.
imo it feels like the parallel here is satoko's own actions, not a redemption of teppei. the hurt satoko is inflicting on others is compounding. satoko is still deeply hurt by teppei. the cycle of violence between generations (whether they regret it or not) is a running theme in like... every WTC story. satoko is not going to "win" rika the way she thinks she's going to. Like, boiled down to its essence, this episode's story was "if an abuser literally magically realized what they did was wrong, would their victim forgive them?" and satoko answered "no," and this train is pulling into the station for her as well. teppei's regret didn't excuse his actions, and satoko's regret isn't going to excuse hers.
probably, anyway. we'll see how it plays out and to be clear I certainly don't want teppei to just Become Good unilaterally after one bad day or whatever, but I think given this is the same franchise that has rosa, kinzo, etc in it we're most likely not going to see that. in fact, putting the pieces together: it looks more like the compounding memories is going to result in teppei attacking keiichi, because this isn't watamadashi teppei (clue: the housing situation).
incredibly Evil wildcard prediction: this Teppei is Bern's piece, and this is Rika's below the belt response to Satoko/Lambda bringing Akasaka into things.
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First we get the Teppei-driven episode and next we'll get our Okonogi-centric episode, don't worry everyone.
I really can't take this episode at face value because there's definitely going to be too many catches attached to it with more context in the coming weeks that may make any incoming observation feel immediately dated.
That said,
Looking forward to seeing how this plays out though because it should be interesting to compare him to another certain adult who has problems with kids in Umineko
I really can't take this episode at face value because there's definitely going to be too many catches attached to it with more context in the coming weeks that may make any incoming observation feel immediately dated.
That said,
It's very funny seeing some people online have grievances with the idea of Teppei "breaking character", wanting to change his life around after having photorealistic nightmares, the same kind that immediately would throw someone like Keiichi into deep anguish and despair. It would be like if someone called Scrooge "out of character" for turning his life around after being haunted by his ghosts and his impending death.
Looking forward to seeing how this plays out though because it should be interesting to compare him to another certain adult who has problems with kids in Umineko
Keiichi has a literal progression from point A to B and finally C through the novel. He starts to remember other worlds which prompts him to not repeat his mistakes when confronted with the same situations. He's a rich character and the reader can understand why he changes and how, he knows killing Teppei is bad so he knows how to confront Rena about her murder in Tsumi and what to not repeat in Mina.
Teppei stuff is basically out nowhere for a character that was completely one dimensional up to this point and it feels like it exists because R07 once said he regretted not giving Teppei a "happy ending" in Matsuri since Higu is all about redemption and stuff.
But honestly, while I'm not opposed to the idea of Teppei having a redemption arc since it fits theme of the novel, did we really need a "redemption" for a character that once said "The only reason I haven't raped Satoko is because she's too young". It's really fine to leave some things alone. Yes, Takano is objectively worse than Teppei, but at least Takano is a rich character with an objective that she's trying to accomplish, Teppei is just straight up just a dick.
After thinking about it, I'm now wondering if that even was looper Satoko in the Teppei part of the episode. There's no statement that would confirm she's actually a looper anywhere in those scenes. There are a couple of suspicious shots like her observing Rika at night, but not even a single actual quote pointing to it.
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I'm honestly surprised that a Teppei redemption hit me in the feels as much as it did. He's always been such a fucking hatesink.
Of all the things I expected this show to do, a fucking Teppei redemption arc was not one of them.
In some ways, that kind of makes it great. I kind of wish they spent more time doing out of left field stuff like this instead of the first half being mostly a rehash with slight twists.
In some ways, that kind of makes it great. I kind of wish they spent more time doing out of left field stuff like this instead of the first half being mostly a rehash with slight twists.
Calling it a redemption arc is a bit of an overstatement. More like it's his first step to stop being a complete piece of shit. Still though as a twist it's pretty great, and completely changes our perspective of what really went down in the third arc, and they did a good job to make it seem genuine in one episode no less.
Quite. This one is older but after the last episodes, it hits different.
It's in no way a redemption arc and I don't why there are even people saying this lol.
I think my issue with Teppei in this episode is that he has a change of heart because he sees himself dying.
While I can understand why that might make him change his habits etc it doesn't justify why he is suddenly nice to Satoko.
If he had seen a vision of his own actions against Satoko and vowed to be a better man who would never do that, then I'd get it.
Satoko was obviously right to tell him no though, even though he was acting nice he was still doing it for his own selfish reasons
While I can understand why that might make him change his habits etc it doesn't justify why he is suddenly nice to Satoko.
If he had seen a vision of his own actions against Satoko and vowed to be a better man who would never do that, then I'd get it.
Satoko was obviously right to tell him no though, even though he was acting nice he was still doing it for his own selfish reasons
I think it was also a nice touch that he didn't force her unlike other people that apologize to their victims. He accepted it and even knew how stupid was of him to try to shake her hand.
Quite. This one is older but after the last episodes, it hits different.
lol wtf
I think that's why it worked so well for me. It would've been weird if he felt bad for seeing himself hurting Satoko in other timelines. He already hurt her plenty in this one. The reason for his change being completely rooted in self interest is exactly why I can buy it. Everyone is afraid of dying alone, and I can buy a 40 something yo having an epiphany after a series of nightmares about it and trying to turn his life around so someone will take care of him when he's old. It's very selfish, but also very human and realistic. It's the same reason abusive parents tend to grow softer the older they get..
I also loved how it didn't work out. You can't just atone for years of abuse with a single apology and a promise to change.
I just wish we don't get a continuation of this plot line since I think it already works very well as a self-contained story, and that they managed to strike a balance that's very easy to mess up if they don't move on now.
I wonder if this leads to the part where Oishi goes crazy and Keiichi deals with Teppei shown in a earlier episode.
I don't think Gou should have touched this plot line really, especially given the story will feature an abuse victim faking her abuse so she can murder her friends, using the plot line from the episode entirely dedicated to criticizing how the system fails to protect abuse victims.
Satoko is seemingly constantly testing the loop ability, so this probably wasn't the specific world of any Damashi arcs, but the accumulated memories might have an effect there.
Hmm yeah I like that way of thinking about it, that makes a lot of sense and does make Satoko's refusal at the end have quite a lot of impact.
So i finally got around to watching/binging this show and really glad I did. For context I have watched both seasons of Higurashi but yeeeeears ago. This binge on this apparent sequel season was nice to jog my memory on what happened for the first half of the show.
Regarding the more recent (and main, so spoilers for Episode 17/18 onwards in particular) plot twist of
Anywho, just wanted to say glad I binged/caught up to the show and it feels just as Higurashi as before. I havent played Umineko tbh but not sure if thats particulalry relevant here to a degree to male it required; show so far doeant seem like it.
Regarding the more recent (and main, so spoilers for Episode 17/18 onwards in particular) plot twist of
Satako being a looper/villain, I actually kinda jive with, and I did enjoy the explanation of how with St. Lucia Academy stuff. I've been reading alot of folks saying this is character assassination, stupid, etc. but I can get behind it.
Thing is I don't buy any of the Higurashi cast as mentally stable, even with Hinamizaws Syndrome (or lack thereof), Satako in particular has demons from both family abuse and attachment issues due to her brother. Atop of being thrown into an alien environment that works against her (plus the infamy of Japanese academics), a supernatural being clearly toying/influencing her, time shenanigans being inflicted upon a teenage mind, it really isn't that hard to buy imo.
I dont really blame Rika either as her desire to get out of Hinamizawa is also understandable but, again, I dont view her mentally stable either.
Thing is I don't buy any of the Higurashi cast as mentally stable, even with Hinamizaws Syndrome (or lack thereof), Satako in particular has demons from both family abuse and attachment issues due to her brother. Atop of being thrown into an alien environment that works against her (plus the infamy of Japanese academics), a supernatural being clearly toying/influencing her, time shenanigans being inflicted upon a teenage mind, it really isn't that hard to buy imo.
I dont really blame Rika either as her desire to get out of Hinamizawa is also understandable but, again, I dont view her mentally stable either.
Anywho, just wanted to say glad I binged/caught up to the show and it feels just as Higurashi as before. I havent played Umineko tbh but not sure if thats particulalry relevant here to a degree to male it required; show so far doeant seem like it.
Called it.
It looks like we'll be getting full answer arcs, and everything now.
lol Child Takano looks more like Lambda than Satoko even though this is heading in the Lambda=Satoko's direction.
Pretty terrible episode overall and another huge disservice from the original. Who would have thought all you needed to defeat Takano was to loop a bunch of times.
Pretty terrible episode overall and another huge disservice from the original. Who would have thought all you needed to defeat Takano was to loop a bunch of times.
The message is probably that you don't have to forgive someone even if they change.
Which might matter when Satoko inevitably tries to get Rika to forgive her.
