Hideki Yasuda, Senior Analyst, Ace Research Institute: Nintendo has practically eradicated Playstation from Japan

[seroun]

Capitalism ALWAYS cares about losing relevance in a market. Capitalism is addicted to growth and eventually PlayStation's investors are going to start wondering why a revenue stream is drying up.

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Sure. But they are gaining revenue in other markets.

Personally I think Sony saw this coming after shelving the Vita. Is it the right choice? I don't know, I'm not a shareholder. But it doesn't seem they mind.

Edit: just read the full comparisons. How can you compare a console at the end of its cycle with a console on the highest point of its cycle? PS5 is also selling well in Japan? What is this whole thing?

 

[matt1996]

People saying Japan is dead must not know PS4 sold ~10 million there, making it their second biggest market

 

[Deleted member 63122]

The only way Sony is going to pivot is and if when a potential Nintendo succersor becomes close in specs and healthy sales and the big AAA games say to Sony " nah, dog! That check for timed or permanent exclusitivity isn't going to cut it. I can get that and more day 1 on this Nintendo console." If that happens, yeah. Which could happen as soon as MHW2. I doubt if Rise sells as much as expected, and Switch 2 could run MHW2, Capcom isn't going to skip that.

 

[Cerulean_skylark]

I don't know if this data is really comparing apples to apples. It is taking 1 month of a console in the planned obsolescence of its lifecycle and a console that has different features still in its current console cycle with no competing products by the same company being supported or having any products in the pipeline...

It has both the problem of being a very small snapshot of a larger picture and being in a very transformative time for the other.

that is not to say sony isn't slowing down in Japan, but this data is really problematic in how it's conclusion is being presented for anyone who knows anything about reading data.

 

[Deleted member 1003]

The Vita sold worse than the PS4. The Wii U did a lot better in Japan than most of the rest of the world.

That doesn't paint a picture of a country that is skewing from home consoles to handhelds.

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I count mobile games as part of portables.

 

[Kcannon]

The more I think about this, Sony seems to be taking the right course of action for the moment.
The world is a lot bigger than Japan and Japan is slowly but surely moving away from home consoles to portable gaming. Once tech progresses (5G, etc) and if Sony can beef up what PS Now offers (games and amount of mobile platforms), they might be able to turn things around. Also, who knows how long dedicated hardware will last with the way things are going. It might be Nintendo that needs to change.....

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Unfortunately, the pathetic software sales means they will still lose since no one there is interested in their IPs.

Software sells hardware and all that. The same can apply to services. Nintendo can always rely on their juggernaut IPs while Sony will be at the whim of 3rd-parties, who might chase services of their own.

MS is already seeing this, which is why they're acquiring studios with valuable IP first and foremost. The dev expansion is completely secondary.

 

[srtrestre]

And Monster Hunter Rise isn't even out yet.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

Sony's past string of Japanese games, even during the PS3 era, hasn't exactly sold all too well in the west either. In fact, what Sony Japan game (that isn't an Ueda game or GT) during the PS2 era sold really well in the west? I can't really think of any off the top of my head.

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Not much that I can think of, maybe Hot Shots Golf? That's all more the reason to highlight the issue isn't that Sony isn't Nintendo. The issue is Sony's Japanese studios suck at making games people want to play.

Even while Sony was dominating in the PS1 and PS2 eras Nintendo was still either the top of top 3 publisher in Japan. The issue isn't Nintendo is different. The issue is entirely in Sony's court.

 

[7thFloor]

People saying Japan is dead must not know PS4 sold ~10 million there, making it their second biggest market

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Ok but the PS4 was new 7 years ago, things have clearly changed since then.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

People saying Japan is dead must not know PS4 sold ~10 million there, making it their second biggest market

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Wait...Germany is Sony's biggest European market even ahead of the UK? I had no idea about this!

 

[Le Dude]

I don't really get this. There are lots of huge Japanese properties only on playstation/xbox. How is this possible with stuff like FFVII Remake, XIV, Monster Hunter World, Kingdom Hearts III, Yakuza, Resident Evil, DMCV out there? Someone help me on this.

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Because that's all software that's similarly trying to hit a global audience.

 

[seroun]

Ok but the PS4 was new 7 years ago, things have clearly changed since then.

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But that's the problem with the analysis, though? It's comparing the worst moment of the PS4 in Japan, at the end of its cycle, with an already successful next gen console being sold vs. a much more recent console in its peak of sales?

 

[Guaraná]

Sony just had a record quarter for any platform holder and is doing better than ever and making significant inroads in middle east and other regions

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Revenue is not profit

 

[zero_suit]

Revenue is not profit

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Nintendo made more in profit despite this.

 

[cw_sasuke]

Wait...Germany is Sony's biggest European market even ahead of the UK? I had no idea about this!

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I mean MS is strong in UK while they are an afterthought here making the PS console the defacto system for any next-gen games.

 

[MegaXZero]

But that's the problem with the analysis, though? It's comparing the worst moment of the PS4 in Japan, at the end of its cycle, with an already successful next gen console being sold vs. a much more recent console in its peak of sales?

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They used the top 30 of Famitsu, where PS5 software hasn't been seen since like Nov.

 

[Deleted member 15360]

Revenue is not profit

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[Phoenix Splash]

Sony (western) did the right thing by focusing their efforts on PS4 and *ehem* giving up on the Vita before it even went on sale

Still, I feel like they could have done something more for the handheld market. I don't get why handhelds are still seen as "childish" when compared to home consoles, especially now that there's a concept of an hybrid console with the Switch.

I guess they'll try again in Japan if (big if) cloud gaming gets good enough, because currently one can tell the difference from native gameplay.

 

[VariantX]

title is kinda misleading sony eradicated themselves from japan

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This is what I thought just reading the op. If theres no new hardware hardly being sold in the country, of course the software sales are going to look weak for them until hardware production can allow Japan to get a decent supply.

 

[seroun]

They used the top 30 of Famitsu, where PS5 software hasn't been seen since like Nov.

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I see. But of the hardware can't be sold because of stock issues, why would anyone buy the software right now?

I think they are doing well (for themselves, mind you, not from a consumer standpoint) and from statements it doesn't seem like they are on guard in terms of how they are doing in Japan. If they aren't, other than having actually good JRPGs I'm not sure how they could push it.

 

[Skittzo]

I count mobile games as part of portables.

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Then I guess that's fair, but in the console space I'd argue that the audience has not skewed noticeably from home consoles to handhelds.

 

[Jimmy Joe]

I wonder what would happen if this trend continues in the sense of presence in the minds of future Japanese game developers. Like would you go to work at Capcom (just to name an example) to develop games that you are not familiar with for a local market that doesn't care about your games?. It is almost working for the outside world turning your back to your local community. As a long term scenario could be really weird.

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This has actually come up before! Square-Enix has mentioned that there is a shortage of new developers because the lack of focus on the domestic market for the big corps like Square has resulted in people not really wanting to work for those companies. If Final Fantasy doesn't appeal to Japan as much as the west, and your friends and family don't care, you're less likely to work there!

The labor pool of Japanese game developers is actually shrinking, and more and more of the existing pool is being funneled toward Nintendo

 

[LostCauseUnite!]

not surprised. Switch combines both console and handheld. The latter is the main force in Japan.

I think, if sony really wants to do something about it, they should release a PS5 handheld, PS5 light or something...,.

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That would do even worse, believe it or not.

 

[Amin_Parker]

I will also echo that I think Sony's first party offerings are INCREDIBLY boring to me, since I pretty much hate Western games

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I totally concur and agree with the bolded and underlined part of your statement. I don't know anything about the competition's first party games because I've never played any of them in my life so I can't comment on that part.

 

[werezompire]

I don't really get this. There are lots of huge Japanese properties only on playstation/xbox. How is this possible with stuff like FFVII Remake, XIV, Monster Hunter World, Kingdom Hearts III, Yakuza, Resident Evil, DMCV out there? Someone help me on this.

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None of these are evergreen titles so their sales die out quickly the further from launch it gets. If you look at the Top 20 best-selling games in Japan of late, it's heavily dominated by evergreen Switch titles, mostly from Nintendo.

A big new release from SE, Sega, Capcom, etc. on the PS4 might take the #1 spot at launch and stick around for a few weeks, but a couple months later, it's off the chart.

 

[Oregano]

I see. But of the hardware can't be sold because of stock issues, why would anyone buy the software right now?

I think they are doing well (for themselves, mind you, not from a consumer standpoint) and from statements it doesn't seem like they are on guard in terms of how they are doing in Japan. If they aren't, other than having actually good JRPGs I'm not sure how they could push it.

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In the past PS3 software continued to sell past the release of PS4(well past) and PSP software continued to sell past the release of Vita. This is the lowest marketshare for PS software ever.

 

[sfortunato]

Yeah, this 100%. Nintendo has been doing good, but nothing in particular to battle Sony.

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Nintendo is releasing high-quality software with mass-market appeal in both Japan and the rest of the world.

Kinda sucks really, I feel a healthy PlayStation market in Japan is good for the industry...I mean Nintendo needs some competition lol. Maybe it'll turn around (a little) when PS5 stock is more readily available over there.

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Nintendo does have competition. Mobile gaming is competing in the same market: consumers' free time.

Yeah, I don't think Sony cares as much. The entire Japanese market has shrunk significantly. Handhelds aren't performing (inc Switch) to what they used to either (NDS as example). Everyone over there is playing GACHA games on their phones.

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The Japanese market in fact is growing again.

 

[lightning16]

I don't really get this. There are lots of huge Japanese properties only on playstation/xbox. How is this possible with stuff like FFVII Remake, XIV, Monster Hunter World, Kingdom Hearts III, Yakuza, Resident Evil, DMCV out there? Someone help me on this.

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A lot of these games aren't as popular in Japan as one would think, and they also tend to be front-loaded in sales.

 

[RedOnePunch]

Playstation mobile games have mostly all been failures. I think Disgaea RPG is doing ok since its reboot.

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I thought they had that one game that was one of the most profitable. Maybe I'm misremembering.

 

[Deleted member 2791]

I don't really get this. There are lots of huge Japanese properties only on playstation/xbox. How is this possible with stuff like FFVII Remake, XIV, Monster Hunter World, Kingdom Hearts III, Yakuza, Resident Evil, DMCV out there? Someone help me on this.

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All of those games sell to the exact same audience: male experienced gamer from 20 to 35 years old.
What Sony needs to do is expand their reach. Have games that attract far more people.

I thought they had that one game that was one of the most profitable. Maybe I'm misremembering.

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You're most likely thinking of Fate/Grand Order which isn't a SIE game, as has been detailed in the thread a couple pages ago.

 

[deep_dish]

Eradicated is maybe a too harsh of a word... but to anyone who follows the market in Japan, this is not a surprising headline

 

[Amin_Parker]

I wonder if people are ignoring that Switch domination in Japan will translate to Nintendo domination in Asia. No point of the whole 'Sony doing big worldwide' comments if Switch does big big numbers in China

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clearly that statement will be the purple elephant in the room for a long time. Luckily for me I see it as the next most logical steps in the events that will take place soon.

 

[Clipo]

This has actually come up before! Square-Enix has mentioned that there is a shortage of new developers because the lack of focus on the domestic market for the big corps like Square has resulted in people not really wanting to work for those companies. If Final Fantasy doesn't appeal to Japan as much as the west, and your friends and family don't care, you're less likely to work there!

The labor pool of Japanese game developers is actually shrinking, and more and more of the existing pool is being funneled toward Nintendo

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I didn't know about that but sounds completely reasonable. Game development is still a job that requires a lot of passion and commitment taking into account the not-good working conditions, like crunch. And going to work for a company to develop something like DMC, (independent of the quality of the game itself) has no presence in the local market, it is a hard thing to do.

 

[Adamska]

I would say it sucks to be in Japan, but then again it's not like if someone there wants a PS console they can't get it.

 

[MysticGon]

Nintendo made more in profit despite this.

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Well, when you sell twice as many consoles...

 

[Jimmy Joe]

I didn't know about that but sounds completely reasonable. Game development is still a job that requires a lot of passion and commitment taking into account the not-good working conditions, like crunch. And going to work for a company to develop something like DMC, (independent of the quality of the game itself) has no presence in the local market, it is a hard thing to do.

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Exactly! This is the sort of thing that might end up having a real domino effect in the next 5-to-10 years, where the big Japanese developers end up needing to do a radical shift in their produciton, not to appeal to domestic consumers but to appeal to domestic labour

 

[sir_crocodile]

I don't really get this. There are lots of huge Japanese properties only on playstation/xbox. How is this possible with stuff like FFVII Remake, XIV, Monster Hunter World, Kingdom Hearts III, Yakuza, Resident Evil, DMCV out there? Someone help me on this.

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These don't come along that often and the AA and sony published Japanese games that would keep the console selling inbetween them don't exist or where they do don't in the numbers they used to. And FF is in decline in Japan anyway (I suspect due to westernisation - but that's just a guess), would be curious to see what Japanese people think of FF these days.

 

[Guaraná]

Well, when you sell twice as many consoles...

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It would be hard to be profitable without selling consoles, lol

 

[Deleted member 18324]

No. The rebuttal was that they are making more money than ever with PlayStation and that their strategy worked and still works. There you have your "dividends".

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Exhibit A of exactly what I described:

This shouldn't be controversial to observe or discuss, the only reason there is any argument is because a bunch of users here get in their feelings about their favoured companies being treated as anything other than 100% good 100% of the time. So instead we get exactly what I described, most people writing it off as either "handhelds, gacha, Japanese market is inscrutable" or "here's Sony's margins, this means that everything they have done is 100% right in perpetuity".

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There's no productive discussion to be had here, because you're alternating between posting Sony Santa Monica job postings in the PlayStation Studios thread and then responding to me as if I'm the one lacking perspective for a completely mild observation about Sony's domestic production.

 

[Kill3r7]

As an outsider who doesn't follow Japanese gaming all that much, what's up with the recent onslaught of articles that Sony is losing Japan? Do these individuals think that PlayStation execs are unaware? Maybe it's a conscious/intentional business decision?

 

[smurfx]

japan software sales are so damn small these days that sony really must not see them worth the effort.

 

[The Iron Banana]

It's odd that Sony allows for themselves to be dominated on their own home court. You would think they would put up more of a fight in Japan.

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You act as if they can control it.

 

[Oregano]

japan software sales are so damn small these days that sony really must not see them worth the effort.

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Do you mean in general, or for PlayStation specifically?

 

[sir_crocodile]

As an outsider who doesn't follow Japanese gaming all that much, what's up with the recent onslaught of articles that Sony is losing Japan? Do these individuals think that PlayStation execs are unaware? Maybe it's a conscious/intentional business decision?

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The articles are coming from Japan and Sony is/was a Japanese company so it's very notable there - plus Sony have dismissed arguments that they see Japan as secondary now so...

 

[Foffy]

The sort of big budget games have been losing general interest for close to a decade now. That market moved to handhelds, then phones. What Sony is largely aiming for isn't appealing to the Japanese audience at large. Folks there want gacha png files, not God of War titles.

 

[Rex1157]

This seems like hyperbole.

 

[Vector]

Sony is treating Japan like a second class citizen tbh, so it's not surprising that Japan stopped supporting their platform.

They also practically don't exist in the handheld space right now while Nintendo has only tightened their grip on the market.

 

[Skittzo]

Well, when you sell twice as many consoles...

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If you're selling them at a loss even selling twice as many wouldn't necessarily lead to more profit.

 

[smurfx]

Do you mean in general, or for PlayStation specifically?

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well in general plus with nintendo being the dominant console maker there it really isn't worth the effort. this is good news for nintendo since it still helps their bottom line and any remaining console users will remain loyal and buy their next console.

 

[Kill3r7]

The articles are coming from Japan and Sony is/was a Japanese company so it's very notable there - plus Sony have dismissed arguments that they see Japan as secondary now so...

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Understood. So are these articles primarily geared towards investors or enthusiasts? If it's investors, I am not following as to why they would care.